Picking a class for a low magic game

[Requizen]

The 3.5 Sandstorm campaign my friend is going to be running is going to be low-magic: only one starting magic item excluding potions/oils, not many going to be dropped or purchasable. I want to play a caster (something I don't do a whole lot and want to try), but know they can end up pretty reliant on items to supplement their kits.

I was up between a Sorcerer (going into Sandshaper perhaps) or Dragonfire Adept. It seems to me that DFA would be a bit less reliant on items (invocations for unlimited tricks, never run out of breath weapon, etc), but maybe a Sorcerer would be fine in a low level (starting at 3), low magic campaign.

Do you have any opinions on the matter?

[Malroth]

Full caster is a good idea, low magic games tend to be brutal kill fests and the more you're character is able to survive in a world where monsters auto-hit the party's crappy starting AC the better. Sorcerers should fare better than dragonfire adepts, but Wizards especially A wizard with a reserve feat or lots of metamagic reduction will survive better than a sorcerer if played correctly.

[WarKitty]

The 3.5 Sandstorm campaign my friend is going to be running is going to be low-magic: only one starting magic item excluding potions/oils, not many going to be dropped or purchasable. I want to play a caster (something I don't do a whole lot and want to try), but know they can end up pretty reliant on items to supplement their kits.

Not really. Not half as bad as the non-casters. Your melee is going to get shafted way more.


I was up between a Sorcerer (going into Sandshaper perhaps) or Dragonfire Adept. It seems to me that DFA would be a bit less reliant on items (invocations for unlimited tricks, never run out of breath weapon, etc), but maybe a Sorcerer would be fine in a low level (starting at 3), low magic campaign.

Do you have any opinions on the matter?

My recommendation? Find something that's good at replicating buffs and other magic effects. Your companions will love you. I might actually go cleric or druid, unless you're set on arcane.

[Eldariel]

I'd just go Wizard to be honest. Easy life. Pick Collegiate Wizard-feat from Complete Arcane to gain more spells per level-up (since you can't expect to get many scrolls), pick Craft feats if your party wants some magic items and become a deity in your party, the person who gives people stats the level they'd have with magic items and the person who makes enemies unable to fight back effectively.

Magic Circle Against Evil, Greater Magic Weapon, Mage Armor, Greater/Superior Resistance & company can replicate many of the stats you'd normally need magic items for. Then you of course have key spells like Fly, Invisibility, etc. and the usual fight winners (Color Spray/Sleep/Grease/Glitterdust/Web/Pyrotechnics/Stinking Cloud/Haste/Slow/etc.) and the out-of-Core equivalents.


But yeah, spellcasters love low magic campaigns since there, nobody else gets the toys they do. In normal games others at least have some of a caster's toys as magic items but in low magic, they have exclusive access to flight, teleportation, stat bonuses, etc.

[Gavinfoxx]

If you are in a low magic game, you definitely want to do the most casting character you possibly can. If there is no magic worth anything as gear, you need to bring as much magic as possible to compensate.

I would suggest an Easy Bake Wizard -- it is VERY item independent, and works even if you don't get any gear in the game whatsoever.

Here's how you make an Easy Bake Wizard.

Easy Bake No "Worries" Wizard

Ingredients:
1 Gray Elf (SRD, MM1)
1 Wizard Class (PHB, SRD)
1 Elf Wizard Racial Substitution Level (Races of the Wild)
1 Eidetic Spellcaster Alternative Class Feature (Dragon Magazine #357 -- the core of the build!)
1 Spontaneous Divination Alternative Class Feature (Complete Champion, be sure to check out the errata online!)
1 Collegiate Wizard Feat (Complete Arcane)
1 Aerenal Arcanist feat (Player's Guide to Eberron, optional)
1 Eschew Materials feat (PHB, SRD)
1 Domain Wizard variant, Transmutation or Conjuration domain (SRD, Unearthed Arcana, optional)
Flaws, to taste (SRD, Unearthed Arcana, optional, but necessary if you want all those feats by level 3)

Mix in bowl, and be sure to top with any one of these feats:
Acidic Splatter, Winter's Blast, or Fiery Burst (all from Complete Mage)

Makes one item independent character.

Note: if it doesn't turn out right, you picked bad spells. Be sure to look at the various wizard handbooks for how to pick solid, powerful, versatile spells.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Your DM's making the classic mistake. If you want a "low-magic" campaign (which is a misleading way to put it) he needs to restrict spell-casters not magic items. You might try pointing this out to him.

For what to play, you have two options as I see it; A) you play toward what the DM was trying to do by picking one of the list casters and -not- circumventing his misguided attempt to create a low-magic environment, or B) play a sorcerer and make his low-magic environment irrelevant (chiefly by providing the very magic he was trying to disinclude.)

I say sorcerer rather than wizard, because they're a little easier to play and you said you're not used to casters yet. The prep' and planning game that a wizard has to play is more than a bit different from the usual fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants game that most everybody else can play.

Edit: Also, I don't know who told you casters were more item dependent than non-casters, but they lied. They lied hard. Or they didn't know what they were talking about. Take your pick.

[WarKitty]

I'd just go Wizard to be honest. Easy life. Pick Collegiate Wizard-feat from Complete Arcane to gain more spells per level-up (since you can't expect to get many scrolls), pick Craft feats if your party wants some magic items and become a deity in your party, the person who gives people stats the level they'd have with magic items and the person who makes enemies unable to fight back effectively.

Magic Circle Against Evil, Greater Magic Weapon, Mage Armor, Greater/Superior Resistance & company can replicate many of the stats you'd normally need magic items for. Then you of course have key spells like Fly, Invisibility, etc. and the usual fight winners (Color Spray/Sleep/Grease/Glitterdust/Web/Pyrotechnics/Stinking Cloud/Haste/Slow/etc.) and the out-of-Core equivalents.


But yeah, spellcasters love low magic campaigns since there, nobody else gets the toys they do. In normal games others at least have some of a caster's toys as magic items but in low magic, they have exclusive access to flight, teleportation, stat bonuses, etc.

I would say, if you do this I'd focus on the buffs and key spells. Low magic tends to bring out the differences between magic and non-magic classes much faster.

[Requizen]

Yeah, I guess my information is a bit lacking as far as melee/casters go. But then again, my campaign experience has been mostly fighter types. But since our group has 0 magic users (aside from maybe the Hexblade and someone who may or may not be going Rogue/Beguiler party face), I thought I'd do some magic pew pew. Though DFA is more battlefield control, or so I understand.

I don't see myself playing a prepared caster (not really my cup of tea), I think the closest I'd get is something like Spirit Shaman.

[WarKitty]

Yeah, I guess my information is a bit lacking as far as melee/casters go. But then again, my campaign experience has been mostly fighter types. But since our group has 0 magic users (aside from maybe the Hexblade and someone who may or may not be going Rogue/Beguiler party face), I thought I'd do some magic pew pew. Though DFA is more battlefield control, or so I understand.

I don't see myself playing a prepared caster (not really my cup of tea), I think the closest I'd get is something like Spirit Shaman.

In that case I'd recommend either Sorc or Favored Soul. Still keep my advice about sticking to buff and utility spells - it's just too likely to cause problems OOC if you go into a low-magic world and start blasting things apart with powerful save-or-lose spells.

[Gavinfoxx]

The thing is, that Easy Bake Wizard?

It is very very very like a sorcerer. And it is very thematic that you can do stuff like leave a slot open, or take Uncanny Forethought or Alacritous Cogitation... heck, you end up able to spontaneously cast ANY divination spells you know at level five! Its really sorcerer like. And you don't have a spellbook. And all of your spells are in your brain. And you automatically just 'get' spells like a sorcerer... no need for scrolls or anything. AND you can get the at-will blast feat like I mentioned...

[Kelb_Panthera]

If I were in your place, and I trusted that the DM knew what he was doing with the low-item thing (huge if, that one), then I'd probably consider playing a dread necro' or beguiler, or maybe even a warmage (again, only if I trusted the DM not to screw the party, accidently or intentionally).

A sandstorm game in a "low-magic" setting sounds to me like he's trying to play up the dangers of the desert. Playing a sorcerer at even mid-op will leave the desert itself a mild-annoyance at worst and more likely just a sandy backdrop. Just sayin'.

[Requizen]

If I were in your place, and I trusted that the DM knew what he was doing with the low-item thing (huge if, that one), then I'd probably consider playing a dread necro' or beguiler, or maybe even a warmage (again, only if I trusted the DM not to screw the party, accidently or intentionally).

A sandstorm game in a "low-magic" setting sounds to me like he's trying to play up the dangers of the desert. Playing a sorcerer at even mid-op will leave the desert itself a mild-annoyance at worst and more likely just a sandy backdrop. Just sayin'.

I was thinking of Warmage. I rarely play (in any type of game) things that are subtle. And while I'm aware Warmage isn't the most well-rounded or useful class lategame, I was thinking of rounding it out with Sandshaper or a desert variant of Rainbow Servant (DM and I had talked about this previously). I do like blasting things....

Also one of the reasons I was looking at DFA. Problem? Breath weapon it! Environment? Get at will endure elements at level 1!

That said, I don't know how RP/combat heavy the campaign will be, so I'm hesitant to make a Warmage, only for us to talk every session and rarely fight.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I was thinking of Warmage. I rarely play (in any type of game) things that are subtle. And while I'm aware Warmage isn't the most well-rounded or useful class lategame, I was thinking of rounding it out with Sandshaper or a desert variant of Rainbow Servant (DM and I had talked about this previously). I do like blasting things....

Also one of the reasons I was looking at DFA. Problem? Breath weapon it! Environment? Get at will endure elements at level 1!

That said, I don't know how RP/combat heavy the campaign will be, so I'm hesitant to make a Warmage, only for us to talk every session and rarely fight.

A warmage can be the caster side of a caster/skillmonkey blend. Just sayin'

The reason that warmage is generally decried as a poor choice is that he only does just the one thing with his magic. He blows it straight to hell. Doesn't really matter what "it" is, all a warmage's magic can do is render it into as many pieces as possible and scatter it to the wind (very much like a fighter or barbarian).

It's fun, and it's usually an answer to the problem at hand regardless of what that problem is, but it's not always, or in some games even usually, the best answer to the problem.

Remember: fire is always an answer. If the judicious application of fire hasn't solved your problem, you need to apply more fire.

[Malroth]

Warmage + Arcane Disciple: Healing = Redmage :)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Alternately, try the ItemMart Warlock!

Warlock6/Chameleon2/Warlock12

Once you hit level 14, you will be able to make 99% of items you can purchase. Plus you have additional versatility by virtue of the floating feat into Extra Invocation to have one 'floating' invocation you can change daily into whatever is necessary at the time.

Warlocks also qualify for Sand Shaper if you want to go Warlock6/Chameleon2/Warlock+6/Sandshaper6

[nedz]

Will the game be low wealth as well ?
In which case Wizard might not be such a good choice.
I have played in one game which was so low cash that the wizards couldn't afford to copy spells into their spell book. This, even after the DM gifted them with a huge scroll of useful level 1-4 spells, made Sorcerer > Wizard :smallamused:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I was thinking of Warmage. I rarely play (in any type of game) things that are subtle. And while I'm aware Warmage isn't the most well-rounded or useful class lategame, I was thinking of rounding it out with Sandshaper or a desert variant of Rainbow Servant (DM and I had talked about this previously). I do like blasting things....

Also one of the reasons I was looking at DFA. Problem? Breath weapon it! Environment? Get at will endure elements at level 1!

That said, I don't know how RP/combat heavy the campaign will be, so I'm hesitant to make a Warmage, only for us to talk every session and rarely fight.

If you get full spellcasting advancement from Rainbow Servant (using the textblock rather than the table), then Warmage/RS = Schrödinger's Cleric. You can spontaneously cast any cleric spell ever any time you want. At that point, 'well rounded' pretty much describes your spell list. Until then, yea... blasting is going to be your answer to nearly everything.

Sandshaper does add some very fun utility to the list, and well worth a one-level dip in a desert/wasteland based game.

[Rejakor]

Wizards and sorcerers make mildly better blasters than warmages at mid levels, because they get easier access to metamagic that improves blaster spells.

DFA's are only worth playing because of the breath weapon feats. Without Entangling Exhalation they have no battlefield control, and entangling is a cute trick at level 1-5, but not really so much so afterwards.

That said, it sounds like your party is low op, so go with whatever.

[Emperor Tippy]

I would look at the Psion. I've found them to work pretty well in low magic settings and to be much more thematically appropriate.

Elan Psion is also pretty good at surviving Sandstorm.

[WarKitty]

Wizards and sorcerers make mildly better blasters than warmages at mid levels, because they get easier access to metamagic that improves blaster spells.

DFA's are only worth playing because of the breath weapon feats. Without Entangling Exhalation they have no battlefield control, and entangling is a cute trick at level 1-5, but not really so much so afterwards.

That said, it sounds like your party is low op, so go with whatever.

The low op nature is why I would be careful picking a caster build up off these boards. A low-magic setting is going to intensify the tier differences; a highly optimized caster in a low-magic, low-op setting is very likely to cause frustration from both the DM and the other players. It's easy to get a party where the one optimized character renders the others useless, or single-handedly destroys the encounters. Remember Rule -1: Everyone should be having fun!

[BowStreetRunner]

Alternately, try the ItemMart Warlock!

Warlock6/Chameleon2/Warlock12

Once you hit level 14, you will be able to make 99% of items you can purchase. Plus you have additional versatility by virtue of the floating feat into Extra Invocation to have one 'floating' invocation you can change daily into whatever is necessary at the time.

Warlocks also qualify for Sand Shaper if you want to go Warlock6/Chameleon2/Warlock+6/Sandshaper6

I believe that in any low-magic campaign, being the one able to make the items gives a much larger advantage than in any other setting.

[ericgrau]

Low magic campaigns tend to be low wealth high magic instead when the DM focuses on items instead of classes. Non-casters get shafted the most. You may want to tell your DM that the D&D system relies on magic items to work properly or everything falls apart. Or to end the campaign by level 7 so that items don't make as big of a difference.

EDIT @^ The low treasure also means it's hard to craft, because you can't even get your hands on half the price of decent gear.

Sorcerer is probably your best bet because it will probably be difficult to get more spells for a wizard. Cleric and druid are ok too since they don't have a spellbook. But most buffs are out because there are no decent melee/range to buff, not even yourself without good items. Single target save-or-X were already bad. That leaves healing, removing status effects, area damage and druid battlefield control. Even though the last two are weaker than the arcane versions they are still good and there isn't much else left. Overall the sorcerer is better because he's not a caster/melee hybrid, but you might want a single party healer since you can't rely on magic items to do it. Druid is a worse healer but otherwise his casting is better (especially since cleric got hit harder due to his many buffs) and he might manage decent melee for a little while even without items.

[Answerer]

I wouldn't be picking any 3.5 class because D&D is awful at low magic and your DM should be looking for a different system that is designed for it. D&D 3.5 is extremely high magic. You cannot change that with some quick houserules.

[Gavinfoxx]

Other than Sorcerer, my Wizard idea relies on exactly zero found scrolls and zero need for items to scribe things into his spellbook, and with Eschew Materials and the right spells chosen, doesn't even need a Spell Component Pouch....

[Spuddles]

I wouldn't go wizard in low magic because 2 to 4 spells per level isn't enough for me. If you later find out you need a spell as a spell known, tough ****, wait until you level.

I would go druid. You get survival as a class skill which will be helpful, as well as 4 skill points a level. You get pretty much every spell a wizard gets, and you get all the environmental spells a level earlier. You have an animal companion which can make an awesome tank. I prefer bison because they have the most HD for their level. Spontaneous summon nature's ally means that if you picked the wrong spells, hey unicorns and crocodiles. SNA has great grapplers. And of course, wildshape. That saves you needing quite a bit of utility gear as well as utility spells.

You can also throw in a level of conjurer wizard and arcane heirophant if you want more spells per day, access to wizard spells, and don't want to lose druid abilities. Druid5/conjurer1/arcane heirophant 10 gets you abilities as druid 15 and wizard casting of 11, which is pretty decent.

There are of course shenanigans you can use with druids:
Versatile spellcaster lets you spontaneously cast whatever you want
Natural Spell lets you cast in wildshape.
Greenbound turns your summons into hilariously powerful plant creatures
Rashemi elemental summons gives your air elemental summons cones of cold
Aberrant wild shape gets you some pretty brutal attack forms, combine with supernatural transformation and a beholder to get its eye ray attacks

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Remember: fire is always an answer. If the judicious application of fire hasn't solved your problem, you need to apply more fire.
Why is this sarcasm-colored? You should only use that color for sarcasm. :smallwink:

[Gavinfoxx]

I wouldn't go wizard in low magic because 2 to 4 spells per level isn't enough for me. If you later find out you need a spell as a spell known, tough ****, wait until you level.

You do know that the Wizard build I presented gets way, way, way more than that? I'd have to run the numbers again, but it is FAR more than 2-4....

[ericgrau]

Ok ok a wizard who somehow overcomes the limited spells available could work too. I'd make the collegiate wizard feat the highest priority in that build. Second would be eidetic, just in case you lose your spellbook and would need expensive inks to write a new one. This may or may not ever happen, but it sucks if it does. Living without items is nice, but if they cost little or nothing then it doesn't matter much.

Really any melee or buffer who overcomes item dependence also works. With a party full of casters you may actually want a monk as they benefit more from buffs and make amazing targets. Pimp him out from yet another mediocre gear starved melee into a monk of doom. Mage armor, enlarge person (plus flurry tripping/grapple damager), greater magic weapon, heroism, etc.

[Gavinfoxx]

Let's see...

Basic Wizard: Start with 3+Int mod L1 spells, +2 each level as baseline
Elf Generalist Wizard: +1 wizard spell at start, +1 each level beyond baseline
Collegiate Wizard: Instead of 3+int and +2 each level, baseline is set at 6+int and +4 each level
Aerenal Arcanist: +1 each level beyond baseline, including L1 if you take it then
Domain Wizard (Transmutation or Conjuration): One specific extra spell of each spell levels; +9 spells over career (cantrip is already known)

So at level one, with a 20 int (cause Grey Elf) you know:
13 level one spells, plus mage armor or expeditious retreat automatically
At level 2, you gain six new L1 spells
At level 3, you gain 6 spells of up to spell level 2, and levitate or web, depending...

Seriously, you'll be fine.

So Grey Elf + Two Flaws + Elf Generalist Wizard, with Collegiate Wizard, Aerenal Arcanist, and Eschew Materials as three feats, taking Acidic Splatter or Fiery Burst at level 3 (depending on your dex). Max int then con, everything else is potentially a dump stat.

[Spuddles]

Let's see...

Basic Wizard: Start with 3+Int mod L1 spells, +2 each level as baseline
Elf Generalist Wizard: +1 wizard spell at start, +1 each level beyond baseline
Collegiate Wizard: Instead of 3+int and +2 each level, baseline is set at 6+int and +4 each level
Aerenal Arcanist: +1 each level beyond baseline
Domain Wizard (Transmutation or Conjuration): One specific extra spell of each spell levels; +9 spells over career (cantrip is already known)

So at level one, with a 20 int (cause Grey Elf) you know:
13 level one spells, plus mage armor or expeditious retreat automatically
At level 2, you gain six new L1 spells
At level 3, you gain 6 spells of up to spell level 2, and levitate or web, depending...

Seriously, you'll be fine.

Aren't you trading out your ability to specialize about 3 times?

Furthermore, you have to pick out which spells you *think* will be useful. Why bother? Druid is better than wizard anyway.

[Gavinfoxx]

Aren't you trading out your ability to specialize about 3 times?

Not exactly, due to differing language between the various options. Some of the stuff says that 'if you don't specialize, you can do this', some of the stuff says 'by removing the ability to specialize entirely, you gain this ability.' Order in which the abilities are taken matters.

[Spuddles]

Not exactly, due to differing language between the various options. Some of the stuff says that 'if you don't specialize, you can do this', some of the stuff says 'by removing the ability to specialize, you gain this ability. Order in which the abilities are taken matters.

Sketchy, but 7 spells/level is great. Not quite as good as ALL the spells per level, and druids have such an incredible spell list.

[Gavinfoxx]

Eh, I would put the upper capability of a well-played itemless wizard of this type above that of an itemless Druid, at level 11+. Both are still well within game breaking, but the Wizard has more options to gain items and such than the Druid, and more ways to get all the rest of the spells he wants and doesn't have...

[nedz]

I wouldn't be picking any 3.5 class because D&D is awful at low magic and your DM should be looking for a different system that is designed for it. D&D 3.5 is extremely high magic. You cannot change that with some quick houserules.
You're right but some DMs will try low magic, for whatever reason.
The question here is how to you avoid being stuffed by the misguided DM.


Remember: fire is always an answer. If the judicious application of fire hasn't solved your problem, you need to apply more fire.Why is this sarcasm-colored? You should only use that color for sarcasm. :smallwink:

I think that this colour is far more appropriate.

[WarKitty]

Let's see...

Basic Wizard: Start with 3+Int mod L1 spells, +2 each level as baseline
Elf Generalist Wizard: +1 wizard spell at start, +1 each level beyond baseline
Collegiate Wizard: Instead of 3+int and +2 each level, baseline is set at 6+int and +4 each level
Aerenal Arcanist: +1 each level beyond baseline, including L1 if you take it then
Domain Wizard (Transmutation or Conjuration): One specific extra spell of each spell levels; +9 spells over career (cantrip is already known)

So at level one, with a 20 int (cause Grey Elf) you know:
13 level one spells, plus mage armor or expeditious retreat automatically
At level 2, you gain six new L1 spells
At level 3, you gain 6 spells of up to spell level 2, and levitate or web, depending...

Seriously, you'll be fine.

So Grey Elf + Two Flaws + Elf Generalist Wizard, with Collegiate Wizard, Aerenal Arcanist, and Eschew Materials as three feats, taking Acidic Splatter or Fiery Burst at level 3 (depending on your dex). Max int then con, everything else is potentially a dump stat.

My worry is that this won't cause a DM to say "oh low magic didn't do what I expected, let me think." The reaction to this build from the type of DM likely to do low magic in 3.5 is going to be "you munchkin what do you think you're doing, you're breaking my setting with your dumb shenanigans!" I'd advise if you're going to try to acquire as much magic, try to do so in ways closer to RAI.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Why is this sarcasm-colored? You should only use that color for sarcasm. :smallwink:

It's sarcasm colored because I meant it in a joking fashion.

It's true enough that fire is always an answer, but sometimes its an answer that actively makes things worse, thus requiring either more fire or a better answer. Sooner or later you'll run out of fire or the problems that the fire has produced will outweigh your ability to produce more fire quickly enough.

You -can- fight fire with fire, but sometimes all that does is burn down the world. (Which is a problem unless it was your stated goal.)

[ericgrau]

Druid would be my 2nd choice but I'd still rather have a sorcerer (or a wizard with the right feats/ACFs). Druid can switch his spells more easily, but arcane spells are simply better than divine. At least I'd say this at higher levels when the magic item starvation starts to hurt melee. At lower levels things may be different. Hmm, might be good for healing, battlefield control and early melee as a jack of all trades. If you're in a party of all barbarians or if 1-2 other players already grabbed arcane casters I might favor druid. If the arcane role is open and you've convinced the other players "campaign is screwy, just player casters" then not so much.

Conversely if you're the only caster to be you might play a non-caster just to avoid DM headaches. That way he can balance fights easier. Because items are mainly defensive expect to be a party of glass cannons and plan your tactics accordingly. Without any source of haste available I might even get spring attack to help spread out the damage and to add a non-numerical defense.

[Myrddin0001]

Go Cleric or Wizard. I always prefer Clerics.

[gorfnab]

Another thing that is somewhat amusing to do with an Easy Bake Wizard is take Vow of Poverty, especially in a low magic/magic item based campaign.

[Answerer]

Another thing that is somewhat amusing to do with an Easy Bake Wizard is take Vow of Poverty, especially in a low magic/magic item based campaign.
Without a doubt the only time Vow of Poverty is worth considering, which kind of goes to show what a problem low-magic is in 3.5.

[Malroth]

Social focused enchanter with a mindbender dip is GREAT in "low magic" worlds. You can pretty much mind control or bluff/diplomacy everything in existance and take over the universe. Undead? Need magic to create so won't be in the world. Constructs? Same deal even moreso. Protection from evil/mindblank items giving bullS#(*% immunity? What Items?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Another thing that is somewhat amusing to do with an Easy Bake Wizard is take Vow of Poverty, especially in a low magic/magic item based campaign.

Problem: No spellbook with VoP, as it definitely breaks the allowed wealth limit.

Sorcerers or Warlocks can get away with it, but not Wizards.

It would work rather well with a DMM Persist ClericZilla, though...

[Spuddles]

Problem: No spellbook with VoP, as it definitely breaks the allowed wealth limit.

Sorcerers or Warlocks can get away with it, but not Wizards.

Easy Bake wizards don't have spellbooks....

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Easy Bake wizards don't have spellbooks....

What was that again? (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4488.0).

Oh, I suppose it can be done, but it requires dragonwrought kobold for spellscale.

[Spuddles]

What was that again? (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4488.0).

Eidetic Spellcaster.
In case you missed it the first time, Easy Bake Wizard doesn't have a spellbook.

[Gavinfoxx]

Another thing that is somewhat amusing to do with an Easy Bake Wizard is take Vow of Poverty, especially in a low magic/magic item based campaign.

Its okay. You can take it at level sixish if you want... other stuff is way more urgent...

Also, you being evil is pretty awesome for this character type:

Being a Lesser Fey'ri, with LA Buyoff, is TOTALLY AWESOME for an Easy Bake Wizard...

At-Will Alter Self!

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6992.0
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2811

Of course, you DO need LA Buyoff, and you DO need for that to be at a game that starts at 2nd level at earliest, and you DO need a GM who follows the actual rules for XP, which let a lower level character catch up with the rest of the party.

[Dayaz]

you could always go Binder >.>

Bind:
Bird Lady-thing that gives you the large warhammer/greatclub that can be used in one hand

The guy that gives you a magical full plate armor set

Then there's a vestige that gives you Tower Shield Proficiency.


you now have all your gear but a shield.

there are also caster-esque vestiges if you were wanting to blast things.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

As long as you don't do this (http://www.inktank-studios.com/comics/2005/04/08/twinkie/), you should be fine.

[Firechanter]

In so-called "low magic" games, being a Full Caster is typically the best idea.

Most DMs confuse "low gear" with "low magic". As a caster, you are much less dependent on gear than non-casters.

However, there's one caveat: a Wizard gets only 2 spells per level automatically. He DM may decide that additional spells are very hard to come by (as would be logical for a "low magic" game).
Note how even these "2 spells per level" of a Wizard are still better than what a Sorcerer gets so I'd definitely prefer Wiz over Sorc.

That said, I'd probably go Cleric. You can't go wrong with a Cleric, least of all in a "low magic" game. You get all the spells, for free. You can replicate the most important items with buffs -- particularly Weapon and Armour Enhancement and Deflection AC.

Making a game _actually_ Low Magic in D&D requires extensive work, either banning full casters or hitting them with the Nerf hammer into the middle of next week. Most DMs simply don't do that, so in practice "low magic" usually means "casters rule even infinitely more than in a 'high magic' game".

[Firechanter]

As long as you don't do this (http://www.inktank-studios.com/comics/2005/04/08/twinkie/), you should be fine.

I don't get it. What's that about Charisma and Flying Kick?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I don't get it. What's that about Charisma and Flying Kick?

He's being sarcastic at that point, considering the other character is attempting to optimize and Doing It Wrong(tm).

[jaybird]

Why not Bard? Optimize your ability to buff the party and sing, sing, sing, sing your way to 10d6 extra damage on every attack from everyone thanks to Dragonfire Inspiration!

[Requizen]

Wow, lots of help in here, thanks for everything. I think I will go with a full caster, but being the type of person who likes to buck the standard stuff, I think I'll go something a little less normal than Wiz/Sorc.

I'm looking at Shugenja, I think. I like the elemental flair to it, and my DM said that the Rokugan stuff was acceptable and he was more than happy to allow a Shugenja into the world despite Sandstorm and OA not really meshing as well as some other settings.

How do you think Shugenja works with this "low-magic setting" in a campaign about dealing with the wasteland? I think it fits thematically well (an elementalist wandering through a magic-destroyed world), and since we have no other casters, I think the flexibility of say an Earth Shugenja could come in handy.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Shugenja could work. Don't pick fire though. You'll want the healing spells of the water element just in case the DM is stingy with the healing items.

Earth means banning air elemental stuff, so mostly illusions, but also fly and teleport. That might hurt a bit, but you can live without them. Unless your DM really knows what he's doing with the low-item thing, I can't recommend buffing spells highly enough. You buff up the party so that they can function and the loss of items will be mitigated pretty well.

Yeah, that'll work. Keep everbody buffed up, throw down a bit of BFC, and encourage the party to think creatively about challenges and you could make it.

Make sure the DM understands that overcoming challenges to get XP doesn't just mean killing monsters. By-passing and circumventing things that can kill you will be strong tactics for long-term survival.