[3.5] Few legality questions regarding touch range and healing..

[animewatcha]

For the purpose of this, please leave the whole 'healing spells versus persisting vigor' and the like outside the thread, please. Here let's pretend that in-combat healing is worth something. Touch range spells. Is it ( where is the rule for it ) a full round action to do touch range spells to many willing recipients ( and is there a max limit and where? )

Dragon magazine 342 has the improved healing domain power of changing the range of a healing subschool to close as a free action. Aka what the fleeb the original domain power shoulda been.

Can the two be combined? As in, I use a full-round/standard action and expend usage of improved Healing domain power to cast Heal on all my party members that are within 25 + 5per2casterlevels range?

Also, when it comes to domains that have 'per cleric level' for number of uses. Does it mean need to be cleric 20 for 20 uses ( assuming per single cleric level ) or is it meant via spell level lke cleric 3 / X prestige class that advances cleric casting / x prestige class that .... etc.?

[Namfuak]

1. A touch spell touches one target unless specified otherwise (or if you are a War Weaver you get a class feature that lets you cast touch spells on multiple targets). Taking longer to cast a spell doesn't add any benefits on its own unless the spell specifies a benefit or you are a spontaneous caster adding metamagic.

2. Since 1 isn't a thing the question is moot (unless you are a War Weaver, and the restrictions on that class based on range of the spell are in the class description)

3. It would depend on the exact wording - if it says "Cleric Level," it only counts cleric levels and not your total caster level, however "CL" is the abbreviation of "Caster Level," which IS increased by prestige classes that progress spellcasting, and thus that domain power would be increased by prestige classes.

[animewatcha]

Touch range legality question ain't moot. Especially willing targets and party members usually go together when 'healing.'

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#range

I coulda sworn I saw the max being 6 or somethng as as full-round action.

-edit- found the bottom part in the player's handbook on page 141. Just the question remains for the combo above.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Touch range legality question ain't moot. Especially willing targets and party members usually go together when 'healing.'

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#range

I coulda sworn I saw the max being 6 or somethng as as full-round action.

The max is 6, as a Full-Round action to cast and touch adjacent targets. For spells that have the ability to affect multiple people and are touch range. Which I will reinforce, no healing spells have the ability to affect multiple targets whilst being touch range. The point is indeed moot.

[tyckspoon]

Touch range legality question ain't moot. Especially willing targets and party members usually go together when 'healing.'

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#range

I coulda sworn I saw the max being 6 or somethng as as full-round action.

It's.. somewhere, yes. I don't remember where either. However, the number of targets you can touch in one round is only relevant if your touch spell can affect more than one target- either it's a multiple-target spell to start with, or it contains multiple charges. Cure X Wounds/Heal are neither multi-target spells nor have multiple charges. It doesn't matter how many people you poke while you're casting, the spell discharges its benefit on only the first one.

[animewatcha]

Edited for the Holding the charge section of player's handbook which seems to say yes as touching up to six friends for cure x. Bringing/Coming the question about the enhancing it to close range.

[Curmudgeon]

A spell needs to specify that it will affect multiple targets; the default is just one. From page 175 of Player's Handbook:
Some touch spells, such as teleport and water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

[animewatcha]

For that, I am seeing 2 different things. For spells like teleport, 'as you can reach' being standard action to cast it and can use like 5 foot/ move action 'to reach' as many willing targets as possible with same move action ( since all have to be reached in same round ).

Holding the discharge for touch spell like cure light, where standard action for one friend or up to 6 for full-round. 2 different cases. One being for mainly in combat. Other more for outside combat/in-general-when-outside.

[MesiDoomstalker]

For that, I am seeing 2 different things. For spells like teleport, 'as you can reach' being standard action to cast it and can use like 5 foot/ move action 'to reach' as many willing targets as possible with same move action ( since all have to be reached in same round ).

Holding the discharge for touch spell like cure light, where standard action for one friend or up to 6 for full-round. 2 different cases. One being for mainly in combat. Other more for outside combat/in-general-when-outside.

This doesn't matter. Because Cure Light Wounds, its derivative, and Heal only affect one target. Period. No exceptions. Your argueing nothing. A spell can only affect the number of target's it specifies. If it doesn't specify a number, the number is 1. Period.

[animewatcha]

Interestingly, this very thing spilled over to pathfinder game as well with a couple of additional things of note ( Their entry for this stuff was essentially copy and pasted from player's handbook ).

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o2km&page=1?Touching-Multiple-Targets-with-a-Held-Charge

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2os8t?Multiple-Target-Touch-spells-impossible-to-use

Multi-target touch spells ( by design ) like teleport, you cant hold the charge. While touch spells like cure and heal, you can hold the charge. With the exception call out for up to six friends, etc.

-edited- to fix a link.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I don't even know what your trying to accomplish anymore.

[Sith_Happens]

Holding the charge does not let you affect more targets, it allows you to touch the target in a different round than you cast the spell. Once you touch your first target (for a spell that isn't explicitly multitarget), the held charge is gone.

[animewatcha]

Going by how the other threads, it's wizards/pathfinder rules being fudgy again.

Reason was to find if enhancing the range of a touch spell ( with the 6 six friends thinger ) to close ( improved healing domain ). Would that disqualify the 6 six friends thinger. Result meaning full-round action for casting saying heal to affect 'up to 6' up to range 25 + 5 per 2 levels. The text of the drag mag article says cleric levels, but DM might allow 'CL'. The enhance to close thing really shoulda been the original darn domain power.

Main reason for all these technicalities to accomplish something akin to the following.

Heal spell + initiate of ilmater ( or similar effect for temp hit points I can't remember if Heal spell is affected as per the cure line ) + body to body ( book of erotic fantasy - whatever I heal for, others buffed with it from same casting heal for same amount ) + close range.

Via heal and improved healing domain - within close range, up to 6 heal for 150 plus extras.

Through initiate of ilmater, excess hitpoints becomes temp hit points.

Through body to body, since I 'healed' for 150, they heal for 150 more ( or more tempo hitpoints since within same spell etc. ).

Final result - As a full round action, up to potential 150 temp hitpoints for me and up to 300 for party members. Range being close.

-sidenote: What is that infinity symbol mean within the feat of initiate of ilmater?

[tyckspoon]

There is no six friends thinger, not for Heal or Cure X Wounds. You are inventing that entirely out of your own desire. Those spells heal exactly and only 1 creature. The number of creatures you can potentially touch only has relevance if the spell can actually *affect* that many targets. That's why the Target: entry for Cure spells is Creature Touched and not Creatures Touched, or 1 Creature/Level, or any other form of plural. It's a very important distinction in parsing the rules.

[Curmudgeon]

Going by how the other threads, it's wizards/pathfinder rules being fudgy again.
There's nothing "fudgy" here at all.
Target: You and touched objects or other touched willing creatures

Targets: One touched creature/level
Target: Creature touched Cure Light Wounds specifies a single target creature. Water Walk and Teleport specify more than just a single target. You follow the rules as dictated in each spell. Changing the range of Cure Light Wounds does not change it from being a single target spell.

Regardless of what someone argues on this point, here or elsewhere, the spell affects only what it states. If you want to affect more than one target, there is a spell for that job.
Target: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart

[animewatcha]

Besides divine adapted war weaver and Reach + Chain / Improved Domain + Chain, is there any other way or combo to make Heal, Cure X, etc. into 'area' spells to accomplish intended scenario above?

-edit- also besides researching a new spell mechanics.

[docnessuno]

This may be relevant to the OP:


Legion’s Blessing (Su)

At 8th level, a crusader gains the ability to confer beneficial spells quickly to a large group of allies. As a full-round action, the crusader may confer the effects of a single harmless spell with a range of touch to a number of creatures equal to half her cleric level. The spell’s range remains touch, so all intended recipients must be within the crusader’s reach when the spell is cast. Using the legion’s blessing expends the prepared spell, but it also requires the crusader to sacrifice another prepared spell three levels higher, as when spontaneously using a cure or inflict spell. The higher-level spell is not cast but is simply lost, its magical energy used to power the legion’s blessing.

From the Crusader, a PF Cleric archetype.

[Curmudgeon]

Besides divine adapted war weaver and Reach + Chain / Improved Domain + Chain, is there any other way or combo to make Heal, Cure X, etc. into 'area' spells to accomplish intended scenario above?

-edit- also besides researching a new spell mechanics.
No, but you can use Cure Light Wounds, Mass, Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass, Cure Serious Wounds, Mass, and Cure Critical Wounds, Mass. These are core spells designed to perform exactly what you're asking for.

[Kantolin]

In addition, a bard can get into war weaver (and is a very good fit for it all things considered, as it adds buffing to your buffing) and chain cures that way.

The 5th level spell 'Darts of life' also lets you heal multiple people at once. It's in the complete champion and at 5th level - when combined with augment healing and magic of the land xor sacred healing, it actually heals for quite a bit. It's also ranged.

If the goal is purely 'ranged healing', then healing spirit from the PHB2 also does this - again, you'll want to combine it with Augment healing and magic of the land xor sacred healing so it packs a lot more punch, but it's actually very useful ranged healing with those two feats (and Complete Champion's imbued healing synchronizes well with it, and also with darts of life!)

If third party is okay, then Dreamscarred press has two psionic classes that work very well: The Worldthought Medic and the Vitalist. The latter is a more refined version of the former, but is intended for pathfinder rules (It's easy to backport, but the WTM is also just 'different' in some ways). Dreamscarred Press materials are extremely good quality and of high regards on this board, so I would highly recommend them. ^_^

(They, especially the vitalist, are also the most fun healers I have ever seen in almost any game as an unrelated note).

Otherwise well... cure light wounds mass works well, and also comboes exceptionally well with augment healing and magic of the land for more 'punch'.