[3.5] ToB Maneuvers and Charging

[Twilightwyrm]

So I've been working for a bit on a Barbarian/Swordsage recently, and since I intend to be utilizing ToB classes with a number of other characters as well, the question of which maneuvers work along with a charge has come up. I'm aware almost all boosts, as well as those maneuvers taking a swift action or less, work, so in this case the man focus will be on the various strikes. If someone knows of a topic somewhere, or has a particular list in mind from personal experience, these would both be helpful. Keep in mind, I'm not looking for the most optimized, or those with the best synergy (though those are indeed helpful), but rather just a general list of maneuvers that either use a charge as part of their action, or can be used as part of a charge.

Much thanks in advance

[eggs]

Besides stances/counters/boosts (swordsage maneuvers bold):
L2: Battle Leader's Charge (WR)
L4: Searing Charge (DW), Bounding Assault (DM)
L5: Doom Charge (DS), Law Bearer (DS), Radiant Charge (DS), Tide of Chaos (DS), Pouncing Charge (TC)
L6: War Leader's Charge (WR)
L7: Salamander Charge (DW)
L9: War Master's Charge (WR)

[tyckspoon]

Most strikes are incompatible with charging; a Charge is a specific Full-Round Action, and Strikes are their own distinct action. You can't substitute the specific (Standard/Full-Round) Strike for the generic attack that comes with a charge. There are a number of strikes that function as a Charge, however, and I'd cheerfully list them off for you if I could actually remember any of their names >.>

[Andezzar]

Don't forget the Leading the Charge Stance (WR). I don't know how optimized you want your character to be, but usually Pounce, Power Attack and Shock Trooper gets you enough damage. Focus rather on other stuff for your maneuvers, like being able to charge in more situations or not getting hit or not being affected by spells.

Any reason why you want to go Barbarian/Swordsage? Barbarian/Warblade seems more fitting IMHO.

[Firechanter]

Not to forget Charging Minotaur (SD 1).

Also, the Dancing / Raging Mongoose Boosts work beautifully with Charges, especially when you Pounce.

Since you're already a Barbarian, I suppose you're going Spirit Lion to get Pounce, which is of course better than Pouncing Charge because you don't need to refresh it.
For instance, Pounce works with Bounding Assault, which frees you of the restrictive limitation of having to charge in a straight line.

However, Swordsage of course has a crappy Refresh method, and access to Desert Wind is a bummer prize, so I'd also rather go Warblade and grab White Raven. Also, By Crom Iron Heart Surge should help you get rid of Fatigue after a Rage.

[Twilightwyrm]

Besides stances/counters/boosts (swordsage maneuvers bold):
L2: Battle Leader's Charge (WR)
L4: Searing Charge (DW), Bounding Assault (DM)
L5: Doom Charge (DS), Law Bearer (DS), Radiant Charge (DS), Tide of Chaos (DS), Pouncing Charge (TC)
L6: War Leader's Charge (WR)
L7: Salamander Charge (DW)
L9: War Master's Charge (WR)

Much obliged.



Don't forget the Leading the Charge Stance (WR). I don't know how optimized you want your character to be, but usually Pounce, Power Attack and Shock Trooper gets you enough damage. Focus rather on other stuff for your maneuvers, like being able to charge in more situations or not getting hit or not being affected by spells.

Any reason why you want to go Barbarian/Swordsage? Barbarian/Warblade seems more fitting IMHO.

I plan on having elements of a charger to be sure, but that is not, thus far anyways, the main focus of my build. As for Barbarian/Swordsage? Well my initial decision came down to the fact that I already had a fairly good Wis, the character is setting up more as a skirmisher than a straight melee combatant, and finally I didn't much like having a low Will save. Assuming ToB was not involved, he would probably be a Barbarian/Rogue right now, if that gives a better idea of where the character s headed. But I agree, Barbarian/Warblade would likely be MUCH easier to work with.


Not to forget Charging Minotaur (SD 1).

Also, the Dancing / Raging Mongoose Boosts work beautifully with Charges, especially when you Pounce.

Since you're already a Barbarian, I suppose you're going Spirit Lion to get Pounce, which is of course better than Pouncing Charge because you don't need to refresh it.
For instance, Pounce works with Bounding Assault, which frees you of the restrictive limitation of having to charge in a straight line.

However, Swordsage of course has a crappy Refresh method, and access to Desert Wind is a bummer prize, so I'd also rather go Warblade and grab White Raven. Also, By Crom Iron Heart Surge should help you get rid of Fatigue after a Rage.

Yes, I hope to get Dancing/Raging Mongoose at the first opportunity. Incidentally, however, while I did consider taking the Spirit Lion Totem, I have not retrained this as of yet (I had no idea it existed when I first made this guy). The speed boost the Barbarian gets is one of the class features I enjoy the most, and especially since I'm not building a straight charger, I appreciate being able to project those standard action maneuvers at a longer range. Still, it is still very powerful, and I'm not thinking of crossing it off the list just yet.
Incidentally, while I have considered Warblade, I do plan on getting Adaptive Style for the time being, and the character have not come across a place to rebuild yet, so if I do go that route, I'll have to wait. While a Warblade/Barbarian undoubtedly has its advantages, I've been quite interested in seeing what I can do with a Barbarian/Swordsage combination. If you have any advice for trying to work with such a combination, it would be much appreciated.

[Fimmagin]

Okay, in the maneuver Battle Leader's Charge (WR) you deal 10 extra damage on your charge attack.
This is a quote from the book:
--------
"If your charge attack hits, it deals an extra 10 points of damage." TOB pg 90
--------
Does this apply to ALL charge attacks during the charge, or only the first one. Because if it goes with all charge attacks, my character may deal 40 more damage.

[Gildedragon]

Fast movement can be got in a number of ways.
The easiest (if you're allowed LA that you haven't used) is the Dark template... though there prolly are better templates if you are barbarianing (feral comes to mind)

There is a ghostwalk spear that doubles your speed if you own it. so rather than a speed of 40 you could have 60! Also if you can backwards engineer the cost of the enhancement, get it on a weapon you actually use.

[Kennisiou]

In general the best class to use for charging and maneuvers is Warblade: they get access to almost all of the maneuvers and stances that aid in charging. The best ubercharging build in the game is probably barb 3/fighter2/frenzied berzerker 10/warblade 5. Although I may be overestimating how useful Zerker is.

[DeltaEmil]

Okay, in the maneuver Battle Leader's Charge (WR) you deal 10 extra damage on your charge attack.
This is a quote from the book:
--------
"If your charge attack hits, it deals an extra 10 points of damage." TOB pg 90
--------
Does this apply to ALL charge attacks during the charge, or only the first one. Because if it goes with all charge attacks, my character may deal 40 more damage.It applies to all. If it wouldn't, the ability would specify that it only would do so on the first attack, like the Powerful Charge explains.