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View Full Version : Let's vote up a Mouse Guard character![Step 6.5. Life experiences]



Siegel
2012-11-01, 03:17 AM
Greetings,

after the fun of voting on Burning Wheel Orcs and Dwarfes let's go do Mouse Guard!

If anyone wonders why Mice with Swords are cool i present you this picture:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Oq2kNZRKShg/TLSrUFoWoCI/AAAAAAAACCo/P7mb6c2nYww/s1600/art.jpg


Here are the general steps:


Concept
Guard Rank
Mouse Age and Ability Scores
Mouse Nature
Where were you born?
Life Experience (choosing skills)
- Natural talent
- your partens trade
- How do you convince people
- Apprentice in the Guard
- What did you learn from your Mentor?
- Experience in the Guard
- What's your specialty
What are you knowledgeable about?
Guard Ressources
Guard Circles
Mouse Traits
- Quality that you where born with
- Inherited from parents / Life on the Road
Name
Fur Color
Parents
Senior
Mentor
Friend
Enemy
Cloak Color
Belief
Instinct
Gear




The first step for a Mouse Guard charakter is the concept but we will have to skip this since we are voting.

The second thing is Guard Rank. This is really important. The higher ranks ususally have more choices. They are also older and have more will then health while younger ranks are healthier but less willfull.

The Ranks are

Tenderpaw - a new recruit in the MG, learning under a Mentor they have 1 or 2 years to show their worth

Guard Mouse - the rank and file members of the Guard

Patrol Guard - experienced Mice with a lot of different abilitities able to fullfill solo missions

Patrol Leader - The Leader of a group of 2-5 mice. Experienced members of the Guard.

Guard Captain - The second highest rank in the guard (and the highest avaiable to players) They are tasked with administrative stuff and diplomatic missions. Also leading the Guard in war.


I think we shouldn't pick Tenderpaw because there is not a lot to do with them. Not many skillpoints etc. It would be okay but i won't recommend it.

Xefas
2012-11-01, 03:26 AM
I vote Patrol Guard.

I feel like, as long as we're voting up a single mouse, it might as well be the elite operative trusted to carry out missions as a single mouse.

edit: Although, since Mouse Guard creation is a lot quicker/simpler than Burning Wheel creation, it might be neat to have a thread (maybe after this one?) where we vote up an entire patrol party of mice, and try to get an interesting group dynamic going on between them.

Siegel
2012-11-01, 03:29 AM
I vote Patrol Guard.

I feel like, as long as we're voting up a single mouse, it might as well be the elite operative trusted to carry out missions as a single mouse.

edit: Although, since Mouse Guard creation is a lot quicker/simpler than Burning Wheel creation, it might be neat to have a thread (maybe after this one?) where we vote up an entire patrol party of mice, and try to get an interesting group dynamic going on between them.

I think we can do this after the forum has gotten used to 1 mouse ^^

I also will maybe use this mouse in my game next week, we will see.

turkishproverb
2012-11-01, 04:18 AM
I vote guard mouse, because reversing titles is fun.

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-11-01, 06:13 AM
seconding patrol guard

Siegel
2012-11-02, 05:53 AM
there seems to be not much interest?

CarpeGuitarrem
2012-11-02, 08:47 AM
edit: Although, since Mouse Guard creation is a lot quicker/simpler than Burning Wheel creation, it might be neat to have a thread (maybe after this one?) where we vote up an entire patrol party of mice, and try to get an interesting group dynamic going on between them.
I love this idea.

Also: Tenderpaw.

Siegel, give it a little time, and then move it along, I'd say. Wait around, maybe, until you've got 5 or 6 votes. Most importantly, just keep it rolling. People will come. (Linking to it in your sig might help as well.)

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-11-02, 10:38 AM
there seems to be not much interest?

Maybe we could link to this thread from the previous burning wheel thread, I find it hard to believe that there is much more interest in burning wheel then in mouse guard, most people probably just haven't found the topic yet.(or they just don't know what to answer)

toapat
2012-11-02, 12:08 PM
I vote guard mouse, because reversing titles is fun.

this, but moreso because i feel the title is better

Amphetryon
2012-11-02, 12:16 PM
Patrol Guard gets my vote.

Urpriest
2012-11-02, 12:45 PM
Patrol Guard, aka Swat Mouse

Zelphas
2012-11-02, 12:57 PM
I'll throw in another vote for patrol guard. Enough rank to be decently experienced without getting too old.

Sanguine
2012-11-02, 01:58 PM
Patrol Leader. Because I like being the boss.

The Glyphstone
2012-11-02, 02:01 PM
Guard Captain. Because if you want to be the boss, why stop before you're at the top?

Siegel
2012-11-02, 02:04 PM
Guard Captain. Because if you want to be the boss, why stop before you're at the top?

I actually never created one. There are absurderly powerfull though...

toapat
2012-11-02, 02:14 PM
There are absurderly powerfull though...

for a hamster

The Glyphstone
2012-11-02, 02:14 PM
for a hamster

Hamster of Doom.

toapat
2012-11-02, 02:20 PM
Hamster of Doom.

quick question:

Are there hamsters, chipmunks, and other small rodents as PCable races?

Siegel
2012-11-02, 02:21 PM
quick question:

Are there hamsters, chipmunks, and other small rodents as PCable races?

Nope. Chipmunks are dangerous, they may eat mice.
Actually nearly everything will eat mice. It's a dark dark setting. Even the weather is out to kill you.

Slipperychicken
2012-11-02, 02:45 PM
If you go Patrol Leader, how much control do you get over your mousy minions guardsmen? And does the game whine at you/demote you when they inevitably immediately die? And how strong are these little dudes?

If the minions are good enough, Patrol Leader. Otherwise, default to Patrol Guard.

Siegel
2012-11-02, 02:48 PM
If you go Patrol Leader, how much control do you get over your mousy minions guardsmen? And does the game whine at you/demote you when they inevitably immediately die? And how strong are these little dudes?

If the minions are good enough, Patrol Leader. Otherwise, default to Patrol Guard.

Well they are player characters too.

You have control over them, you are in charge. But the Guard does promote working together and not blindly following orders so your Patrolmates have a say in the matter.

Siegel
2012-11-02, 03:18 PM
Right now Patrol Guard is leading with a huge number of votes. Should we go on to nature and age?

toapat
2012-11-02, 03:53 PM
ya, we should advance.

i want to say have a low nature.

Siegel
2012-11-02, 04:07 PM
So as a Patrol Guard the Health and Will of our Mouse are 4.

His Age can be in a Range of 21-50

Nature is a fairly important stat. A low nature means you can learn skills faster but have the risk to become to unmousy to be in the guard. A high nature is a big reserve of power but you have a long time before learning skills.
Mouse nature is climbing, hiding, foraging and running away. If you do one of these things you can roll your nature exponent.
You can use nature instead of any other skill in the game if you don't have it but you risk loosing it if you fail.
You can also spend a persona point to ad your nature exponent to your roll but this is dangerous in the long run.

To get to the nature exponent we have to awnser 3 questions. I think i will give them without the implications they have. It's more fun and RP-like this way.
You should each awnser the question and tell us what age our mouse should have. I think i will take the average of the given ages.

* Do you save for winter even if it means going without something now? Or do you use what you have when you need it?

* When confronted, do you stand your ground and fight or do you run and hide?

* Do you fear owls, weasels and wolves?

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-11-02, 04:21 PM
Not sure if you wanted yes or no, but I'm giving you some reasonings for what I picked.

* Do you save for winter even if it means going without something now? Or do you use what you have when you need it?
If you mean this in a sane way(eat less now so you have more later), then yes

* When confronted, do you stand your ground and fight or do you run and hide?
I'm a mouse, running and hiding is what you do, standing your ground is what's gets you eaten.

* Do you fear owls, weasels and wolves?
Getting eaten doesn't suit me, so yes I fear them.

Siegel
2012-11-02, 04:25 PM
Not sure if you wanted yes or no, but I'm giving you some reasonings for what I picked.

* Do you save for winter even if it means going without something now? Or do you use what you have when you need it?
If you mean this in a sane way(eat less now so you have more later), then yes

* When confronted, do you stand your ground and fight or do you run and hide?
I'm a mouse, running and hiding is what you do, standing your ground is what's gets you eaten.

* Do you fear owls, weasels and wolves?
Getting eaten doesn't suit me, so yes I fear them.

that's basically the best way to awnser the questions but a simple Yes/No would be enought.

Slipperychicken
2012-11-02, 04:28 PM
His Age can be in a Range of 21-50

Is that measured in months? I'll put him in the prime of his life... 25 sounds about right. Someone correct me if that isn't mouse glory-days.



[I]* Do you save for winter even if it means going without something now? Or do you use what you have when you need it?

Being a true, honest mouse, I save for winter. I shall not burden the tribe with my luxurious excesses.



* When confronted, do you stand your ground and fight or do you run and hide?


I stand and fight! No one bullies a mouse!



* Do you fear owls, weasels and wolves?

Neither mouse nor beast shall shake my resolve. I fear them not.

toapat
2012-11-02, 04:31 PM
* Do you save for winter even if it means going without something now? Or do you use what you have when you need it?

* When confronted, do you stand your ground and fight or do you run and hide?

* Do you fear owls, weasels and wolves?

lets say this mouse is 45

1: He saves for winter, but will use something even if he needs it for later

2: He retreats to better possition to which to engage

3: He respects predators

Amphetryon
2012-11-02, 04:58 PM
* Do you save for winter even if it means going without something now? Or do you use what you have when you need it?

* When confronted, do you stand your ground and fight or do you run and hide?

* Do you fear owls, weasels and wolves?1. Yes, save for winter.

2. Stand my ground; it's why I'm in the guard.

3. Yes, it's a part of my nature I have trouble with.

Siegel
2012-11-02, 05:06 PM
The ages are in "1 circle of the 4 seasons" so a year = a year. These are awesome anthropomorphic fighter mice!

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-11-02, 05:16 PM
that's basically the best way to awnser the questions but a simple Yes/No would be enought.

I agree with you from an RP perspective(that's why I answered like I did), however I can already see that some answers will make it though for you to adjudicate in what category they fall.
Especially if you have the middle them all out in the end, this probably makes your job a lot harder.

Zelphas
2012-11-02, 06:09 PM
* Do you save for winter even if it means going without something now? Or do you use what you have when you need it?

* When confronted, do you stand your ground and fight or do you run and hide?

* Do you fear owls, weasels and wolves?

I like him at age 25.

1. Save for Winter. He's lived long enough to know how hungry those winters can be.

2. Stand and Fight. He knows how to choose his battles, but he doesn't often back down.

3. Fearlessness and bravery are two different things. He's smart enough to know to fear owls, weasels, and wolves.

Slipperychicken
2012-11-02, 06:30 PM
however I can already see that some answers will make it though for you to adjudicate in what category they fall.

These are suggestions for scoring, not my vote

For #2) If you do anything other than immediately attack the threat, or tear your shirt off while shouting "COME AT ME BRO!", you are considered to have fled. A "tactical retreat" response is considered "run like a sissy" for our purposes.

For #3) If the response is both unclear contains the word "fear", or any variation thereof (fright, afrighted, afeared, etc), you are considered to fear the creatures.

Alternatively, you can simply ignore unclear responses.

CarpeGuitarrem
2012-11-02, 08:19 PM
1) They're (did we vote on a sex?) too busy being valiant and serving the interests of the Guard to save up for the winter. XD

2) Of course our mouse stands and fights!

3) ...however, our mouse does have a healthy fear of the big beasties.

Sanguine
2012-11-02, 08:21 PM
I like him at age 25.

1. Save for Winter. He's lived long enough to know how hungry those winters can be.

2. Stand and Fight. He knows how to choose his battles, but he doesn't often back down.

3. Fearlessness and bravery are two different things. He's smart enough to know to fear owls, weasels, and wolves.

This pretty much. Though I want him at age 30.

The Glyphstone
2012-11-02, 08:30 PM
35 years old.

Save For Winter.
Stand And Fight.
Fear Them.

Eisenfavl
2012-11-02, 08:42 PM
Glyphstone has it right, as always.
5 starting nature > 6 because 6 loses fighting skill, and you are going to sacrifice all of your nature anyway so you can do the 1 nature ascendancy build.
Really its just a question of how long you want to wait before becoming omni-capable.

Patrol leader is strictly > patrol guard, the patrol guard only gets cooking over the leader, and is weaker in virtually every other way (or in those it isn't worse).

Guard Captain gives you early game militarist, which is why sprucetuck guard captain is a necessity for big animal fights. You also have social skills coming out your tail, so you can talk the other characters into mentoring your 1 nature self and get 3+ in all conflict stats (and 6+ in your better parts) by the end of the second mission.

And don't talk down to tenderpaws. IIRC they have the highest possible starting scientist, which is great, and their random skill spam can get pretty crazy fast, esp. because they can still max fighter.


The end question is: what op level is this being voted up for? It's important to know this before making the best character.

The Glyphstone
2012-11-02, 08:48 PM
Since no one here knows anything about optimizing Mouse Guard, I don't think 'op level' has any relevance at all. We're voting for what's thematically cool or just sounds nice, and seeing what we get. If this was a 'vote up the most optimized Mouse Guard Character' thread, we'd only have one option each cycle.

toapat
2012-11-02, 09:04 PM
*snip*

thanks, that would have been more useful as the second post.

not like i didnt look up how nature worked to figure out what i was doing beforehand.

CarpeGuitarrem
2012-11-02, 09:25 PM
Really, I feel as if optimizing Mouse Guard doesn't have much of a point...I mean, the values are gonna be changing anyhow, and you can easily make up for it by throwing in and testing. (And it makes far less difference than, say, optimizing in D&D.)

toapat
2012-11-02, 09:30 PM
Mouseguard has a more fluid system for skills, and "Predict weather" is actually control weather (but not as quick)

doesnt mean that you dont try really, really hard to stay at 1-2 nature to become the Paragon of Mousekind

navar100
2012-11-02, 09:31 PM
The One True Mouse Guard is none other than Reepicheep, Crusader for Aslan!

Sodalite
2012-11-02, 11:10 PM
Woah, I almost forgot this thread was thing, for which I apologize. However, I will reserve voting until the next round starts.

Slipperychicken
2012-11-03, 01:48 AM
doesnt mean that you dont try really, really hard to stay at 1-2 nature to become the Paragon of Mousekind

So you become the ultimate mouse... by being less mouselike? :smallconfused:

Doesn't that just admit that mice totally suck and need to overcome their instinctual cowardice and ignorance to do great things?

Siegel
2012-11-03, 04:34 AM
Glyphstone has it right, as always.
5 starting nature > 6 because 6 loses fighting skill, and you are going to sacrifice all of your nature anyway so you can do the 1 nature ascendancy build.
Really its just a question of how long you want to wait before becoming omni-capable.

Patrol leader is strictly > patrol guard, the patrol guard only gets cooking over the leader, and is weaker in virtually every other way (or in those it isn't worse).

Guard Captain gives you early game militarist, which is why sprucetuck guard captain is a necessity for big animal fights. You also have social skills coming out your tail, so you can talk the other characters into mentoring your 1 nature self and get 3+ in all conflict stats (and 6+ in your better parts) by the end of the second mission.

And don't talk down to tenderpaws. IIRC they have the highest possible starting scientist, which is great, and their random skill spam can get pretty crazy fast, esp. because they can still max fighter.


The end question is: what op level is this being voted up for? It's important to know this before making the best character.

#1 thing: We are not optimizing here.
#2 thing: Nature 6 doesn't have to be a bad thing. You can simply put no points into fighter and ignore the -1 fighter thing
#3 Yeah, patrol leaders get more skills and attributes then PGs but thjen you have to be a Patrol Leader and have to Mentor Tenderpaws. You can't be the lone ranger archetype as a Patrol Leader. They are different animals (pun intended)
#4 You are right about Patrol Leaders, Tenderpaws and Guard captains but don't overestimate the Tenderpaw. Yeah he can get 3 or 4 in Scientist and still be a good fighter but those things don't have to come up. Because of this he will suck at beeing a Scout, Pathinfder or Healer and this can be big trouble. And if you want to fight animals, Hunter is better then fighter.
Mouse Guard doesn't have to be about constant fighting.

Still in the end it is really really hard to build a mouse that is not good at his job because you HAVE to put some points into the main skills that are needed in the game so no one should feel bad about a choice that we make. The mouse will be allright.


A low nature is more helpful if you have not activated many skills. A high nature is helpfull if you feel confident in your selection. A 6 mouse nature can use a persona point to add these 6 dice to it's dicepool. With a Scout of 4 and a trait this could eaisily mean rolling 11 dice against a problem. This is power!
(but you nature get's temporarily reduced if you do this.)

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-11-03, 08:48 AM
The end question is: what op level is this being voted up for? It's important to know this before making the best character.

I second that you are missing the point, perhaps you should review this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258063)*, it inspired this one and I think it illustrates the principle under which we are working here quite nicely.




*Yes, I just completed the circle of links from thread to thread.

Draz74
2012-11-03, 03:50 PM
* Do you save for winter even if it means going without something now? Or do you use what you have when you need it?
Saving for winter when your survival right now is at risk is idealism. I might have practiced it in another life, but in these dark times, I wouldn't have lasted this long if I didn't know how to use my resources opportunistically. Use what you have when you need it.


* When confronted, do you stand your ground and fight or do you run and hide?
Stand my ground and fight. Running and hiding does not protect the Dibbuns.


* Do you fear owls, weasels and wolves?
I do not fear wolves.
I do not fear owls. I used to, but eventually I realized that it was a pointless fear, since you never hear them coming anyway.
I fear weasels. Because they're weasels. They don't have the healthy fear of death that any rational creature should have.

CarpeGuitarrem
2012-11-03, 05:43 PM
So you become the ultimate mouse... by being less mouselike? :smallconfused:

Doesn't that just admit that mice totally suck and need to overcome their instinctual cowardice and ignorance to do great things?
Actually, this is pretty much by-the-books how it works. The more heroic a mouse is, the less mouselike they become, because the nature of a mouse is to hide and run.

This means that in Mouse Guard, you have to strike a balance between following your nature and defying your nature. If you go too far to one extreme, you're so mouselike that you drop out of the Guard. If you go too far to the other extreme, you're so un-mousy that you set off on your own, because you can't get along with other mice in any regard.

Eisenfavl
2012-11-04, 05:36 AM
Actually, this is pretty much by-the-books how it works. The more heroic a mouse is, the less mouselike they become, because the nature of a mouse is to hide and run.

This means that in Mouse Guard, you have to strike a balance between following your nature and defying your nature. If you go too far to one extreme, you're so mouselike that you drop out of the Guard. If you go too far to the other extreme, you're so un-mousy that you set off on your own, because you can't get along with other mice in any regard.

This is also cannon as how to ascend to ultimate mouse-power anyway. The Black Axe is even noted as dropping to 0 nature in the books, which by RAW opens up a nightmare of technical exploits. In that time that he was alone, he would have easily ground out his stats, so when his nature started coming back (when he met the others) he finished his ascent.

Just look at him murdering foxes in one hit, where a fox is equivalent to 200 - 2000 or something mice.

Siegel
2012-11-04, 06:00 AM
So shall we go on now?

The Age right now is 30

Saving for winter
Stand and fight if confronted
Fear Owls and Weasels

which will put nature at 4. The mouse can't be Bold or Generous (which are traits) and also not Fearless

The next step is hometown. This defines of course how he was brought up and gives acces to one trait and a skill (typically a trade) that is typical for the town.

The choices are

Barkstone
A busy working-class town.
Skills: Carpenter, Potter, Glazier
Traits: Steady Paw

Copperwood
One of the oldest cities and home to one of the two mines in the Territories.
Skills: Smith, Haggler
Traits: Independent

Elmoss
A once prosperous city, known for its medicinal moss.
Skills: Carpenter, Harvester
Traits: Alert

Ivydale
Renowned for its bakers and bread.
Skills: Harvester, Baker
Traits: Hard Worker

Lockhaven
The home of the Mouse Guard
Skills: Weaver, Armorer
Traits: Generous, Guard’s Honor

Port Sumac
A busy little port town between Darkwater and Rustleaf.
Skills: Boatcrafter, Weather Watcher (more like control weather if you make the test)
Traits: Tough, Weather Sense

Shaleburrow
A simple town known for its delicious drinks!
Skills: Mason, Harvester, Miller
Traits: Open-Minded

Sprucetuck
Known for its scientists, medicine and scent concoctions.
Skills: Scientist, Loremouse (knowing about animals and talking to them)
Traits: Inquisitive, Rational

Flinttrust
A town known for their trade in tools, wood and iron
Skills: Smith, Tools-wise
Traits: Bold, Determined

Sandmason
A castle made out of sand
Skills: Dune-wise, Glazier
Traits: Nocturnal, Quiet

Grasslake
Located near a lake Grasslake has one of the largest militas in the territories
Skills: Insectrist (controling insects), Militarist
Traits: Nimble, Defender (has been in a milita/city guard)

(These towns are not cannon in the rules but are used in my game, maybe you like them. They are still on the map)

Wolfepointe
A rough frontier town, close to the wild country
Skills: Insectrist, Harvester
Traits: Tough, Natural Bearings (you know your way in the wilderness)

Pebblebrock
A town dominated by the monastery of the blue mountain, the Pebblebrockians are a especially relaxed and peacefull folk
Skills: Mountain-Wise, Harvester
Traits: Wise, Quiet

Blackrock
Blackrock has the largest archive of mouse history next to Lockhaven.
Skills: Archivist, Administrator
Traits: Cunning, Innocent

What we need to do is choose a city, one skill from that city and one trait.

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-11-04, 06:40 AM
Sprucetuck
Skill: Loremouse (knowing about animals and talking to them)
Trait: Inquisitive

Just wondering, why aren't those three towns part of your setting?

Siegel
2012-11-04, 06:52 AM
Sprucetuck
Skill: Loremouse (knowing about animals and talking to them)
Trait: Inquisitive

Just wondering, why aren't those three towns part of your setting?

They are part of the setting and i used them. In the book there are no rules on what skills and traits you get from coming from that town. There are rules on how to create additional towns though and that is what i did with Pebblebrock and the others. The towns are part of the setting but not of the RAW. Treat them as houserules.

Mandrake
2012-11-04, 07:11 AM
I vote Ivydale.

Amphetryon
2012-11-04, 08:03 AM
Wolfepointe
Skills: Insectrist
Traits: Natural Bearings (you know your way in the wilderness)


Because "Insectrist" is awesome.

The Glyphstone
2012-11-04, 10:57 AM
Grasslake
Insectrist
Defender

Zelphas
2012-11-04, 10:59 AM
I'm going to agree with the Glyphstone here.
Grasslake
Insectrist
Defender

Insectrist does sound pretty awesome.

Sodalite
2012-11-04, 11:33 AM
Let's see if we can get this thread as filled with bandwagons as the BW thread.

I'll also go with Grasslake, Insectrist, and Defender.

Sanguine
2012-11-04, 02:22 PM
Flinttrust
Tools-wise
Determined

Siegel
2012-11-05, 12:21 PM
Anyone else?

CarpeGuitarrem
2012-11-05, 12:49 PM
Flinttrust
Tools-wise
Determined
I'm actually gonna bandwagon this. :smallwink:

The Glyphstone
2012-11-05, 01:15 PM
Our bandwagon is more bandwagoney than your bandwagon.

Bandwagon race!

Sodalite
2012-11-05, 01:19 PM
Hm...I'm reminded of Mario Kart for some reason.

CarpeGuitarrem
2012-11-05, 02:25 PM
Bandwagons.... ASSEMBLE!!!!

Or is this Bandwagon Kombat? Dueling Bandwagons? Bandwagon Trail?

Siegel
2012-11-05, 02:38 PM
Bandwagons.... ASSEMBLE!!!!

Or is this Bandwagon Kombat? Dueling Bandwagons? Bandwagon Trail?

Someone want's to write up a Bandwagon Confilct skill selection?

I think Insectrist or Loremouse, depending on the cart and probarbly Scout.

Attack and Defend - Ins/LM
Manuveur and Feint - Scout

objections?

Sodalite
2012-11-05, 03:38 PM
I imagine you'd need an awfully light wagon for it to pulled by an insect, unless we're talking about something big, like a goliathus or something. Otherwise, yeah, that seems reasonable, if not quite related to the thread as a whole.

Marginally more related, does Insectrist only apply to actual insects, or does also include things like arachnids, crustaceans, and annelids?

Siegel
2012-11-05, 03:41 PM
It includes everything like that besides Bees. There is an extra skill for Bees called Apiary(and it's awesome).

Basically all the stuff that makes me go iiiiiirrrrrrggghhhhh is covered by both of these skills.

The Glyphstone
2012-11-05, 03:43 PM
Wait, there's a skill that lets us train riding/killer BEES? We must have it.

Siegel
2012-11-05, 03:46 PM
Wait, there's a skill that lets us train riding/killer BEES? We must have it.

You can use it to Placate or Anger Bees or make them swarm someone. Also to produce wax or honey.

Loremouse is used to speak with animals and train them as mounts (and it is hard, believe me i saw a mouse try to tame a fox)

Sodalite
2012-11-05, 03:56 PM
Eh. I mean, I get bees are a meme and all, but if stuff like spiders, wasps, beetles, and especially crabs are all covered by Insectrist, I think it might be the better choice. I mean, if we can somehow get our paws on one of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_crab) guys, I think we'll be set. We don't even need to ride it, just sic it on anything not expecting to have to deal with a big crab, that we want out of the way.

The Glyphstone
2012-11-05, 04:02 PM
Where we're going to find a tropical island-dwelling crab in a forest is a completely different issue than if we can train it.

Also, Team Buglords is winning 3-2 in the bandwagon race, by my count.

Siegel
2012-11-05, 04:09 PM
I think we should give it until tomorrow morning (europe time) and then we will go on with the next step about the parents.

G'night

Knaight
2012-11-05, 08:44 PM
Sandmason
Skills: Dune-wise, Glazier
Traits: Nocturnal, Quiet

I'm going for some variety of desert mouse, and hoping a bandwagon materializes at some point.

Shir
2012-11-05, 10:12 PM
Sandmason
Skills: Dune-wise, Glazier
Traits: Nocturnal, Quiet


You have my cloak.

Siegel
2012-11-06, 05:21 AM
So it seems like Insect Mouse beats Dessert Mouse and Tool Mouse by 3-2-2.

So our Mouse get's a point in Insectrist and was a Defender of the City.

The next big step is choosing skills. We break this up into multiple parts.

1. What area is your mouse naturally talented in?
There is a big ass list of ALL the skills in the game and we get to choose ONE skill from it. This skill will get a point.
(by the way, in the end of the skill point process every skill that was activated get's an additional point so a broad choice get's you a bit more then specialisation)

The skills are:

Administrator - managing facilities, outposts etc.
Glazier
Apiarist
Haggler
Archivist - writing novels and reports etc.
Harvester
Armorer - making weapons and armor
Healer
Baker
Hunter - fighting animals, finding them, building traps and snares
Boatcrafter - building and sailing boats
Insectrist
Brewer
Instructor - helps other people to improve their skills
Carpenter
Laborer
Cartographer
Loremouse
Cook
Militarist - raising up armies and leading them in battle
Deceiver
Miller
Fighter - for fighting mice and animals. You can't fight mice with hunter
Orator
Pathfinder - going from A to B and blazing new trails
Persuader
Potter
Scientist
Scout - the "ninja" skill. Following tracks, finding hidden things, staying hidden
Smith - making tools
Stonemason
Survivalist - finding water and shelter, making makeshift tools and boats
Weather Watcher - more like control weather
Weaver

Totally Guy
2012-11-06, 05:34 AM
Count me for Pathfinder

Sanguine
2012-11-06, 05:37 AM
My vote goes to Hunter. Though I wouldn't complain if we ended up going Scout or Pathfinder instead.

Amphetryon
2012-11-06, 07:49 AM
Apiarist, obviously Says the guy who's apiphobic.

Shir
2012-11-06, 09:00 AM
cartographer because. Or pathfinder.

The Glyphstone
2012-11-06, 09:23 AM
Apiarist, because BEEEEEEEES. Go Team Buglord!

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-11-06, 09:23 AM
Tough choice, but I;m going with Hunter .

Zelphas
2012-11-06, 09:35 AM
Just to be different, I'm going with Persuader. It is rather easy to be persuasive with a giant crab ready to attack on your orders, I guess...

CarpeGuitarrem
2012-11-06, 09:42 AM
Let's take the Pathfinder bandwagon, because Edition Wars.

Knaight
2012-11-06, 02:29 PM
Loremouse: They might be untrained, but their memory is fantastic, and they always loved stories.

Siegel
2012-11-10, 05:52 AM
PATHFINDER WINS !!!

The next step is: What was your parents’ trade?

Yes, we have to define the parents of our mouse. They can have one of the following trades:

Apiarist
Carpenter
Archivist
Cartographer
Armorer
Glazier
Baker
Harvester
Boatcrafter
Insectrist
Brewer
Miller
Potter
Smith
Stonemason
Weaver

Totally Guy
2012-11-10, 08:10 AM
They were Glaziers.

Amphetryon
2012-11-10, 08:34 AM
:smallannoyed: They were Apiarists.

Siegel
2012-11-10, 08:47 AM
Just a question about Vote etiquette, can i, as the threat opener, vote too?

toapat
2012-11-10, 10:41 AM
Just a question about Vote etiquette, can i, as the threat opener, vote too?

so long as you dont weight your vote.

CarpeGuitarrem
2012-11-10, 11:05 AM
They were Carpenters, wooden shoe, no?

The Glyphstone
2012-11-10, 11:55 AM
Apiarists, because BEEEEEES.

Zelphas
2012-11-10, 12:31 PM
I'll join the Apiarist bandwagon. It still sounds like a lot of fun.

Sodalite
2012-11-10, 12:53 PM
Eh, I guess I'll go with Apiarists as well.

Siegel
2012-11-10, 03:45 PM
I say they where Archivists. His father kept the record of the town. His older brother now has to do pick up the family tradition because his younger brother is in the watch and unavailable.

Slipperychicken
2012-11-10, 04:02 PM
Smith, because it's the only trade which involves hitting things with hammers. Hopefully it will give a bonus to hitting people with hammers. If it doesn't, I am disappoint.

Why do the parents have to be so lame? Can't we have a warrior tradition in our household mousehold?

Amphetryon
2012-11-10, 05:04 PM
Smith, because it's the only trade which involves hitting things with hammers. Hopefully it will give a bonus to hitting people with hammers. If it doesn't, I am disappoint.

Why do the parents have to be so lame? Can't we have a warrior tradition in our household mousehold?

Apiarists are not lame! For example, Neil Gaiman is an apiarist, and not lame. (It's his birthday).

toapat
2012-11-10, 05:38 PM
Smith, because it's the only trade which involves hitting things with hammers. Hopefully it will give a bonus to hitting people with hammers. If it doesn't, I am disappoint.

Why do the parents have to be so lame? Can't we have a warrior tradition in our household mousehold?

Apiarist is the most badass profession. Think of Bees not as bees, but Sugar Producing Attack Wolves.

That attack in the Tens of thousands.

needless to say, thats my vote

Slipperychicken
2012-11-11, 11:10 AM
Apiarist is the most badass profession. Think of Bees not as bees, but Sugar Producing Attack Wolves.

That attack in the Tens of thousands.

needless to say, thats my vote

I guess on a mouse-scale, beekeeping is more like farming flying honey-dogs with stingers. Do we get to control them?

toapat
2012-11-11, 11:13 AM
Do we get to control them?

do you think if a Mouse Apiarist was only a honey farmer, the profession would get so many votes?

Siegel
2012-11-11, 11:26 AM
I guess on a mouse-scale, beekeeping is more like farming flying honey-dogs with stingers. Do we get to control them?

You could make a test to anger or placate them yes. You probarly won't run arround with a complete beehive straped to your back.

But i guess Apiarist wins.

(by the way. I think you can only come from a trademouse background because of balance reasons. Every MG character has a few craft skills and is able to produce equipment and other usefull things for the mission. This is a deliberate decision to encourage creativity and building stuff. The rules for crafting are also pretty good)


Next STEP!

With whom did you apprentice for the Guard? What was that mouse’s trade?

"A young mouse seeking to join the Guard applies in either the spring or fall. They meet with a guardmouse in charge of new recruits and are welcomed into Lockhaven. These raw recruits are then distributed among the various tradesmice in Lockhaven to act as assistants, laborers and apprentices. For their first two seasons of service, they are apprenticed to these senior artisans. In this capacity, they help see to the material needs of the Guard."

The list is the same as for parents

Apiarist Carpenter Archivist Cartographer Armorer Glazier Baker Harvester Brewer Insectrist
Miller Potter Smith Stonemason Weaver

More bees? Maybe some background making armor or maps? Learning in the library in Lockhaven? Working on the insect training? Maybe getting fat, making bread?

Sodalite
2012-11-11, 11:31 AM
And now we must choose between them...or any of the others, I guess, but that doesn't really seem like the direction we're going in.

I think I'll reserve judgement until one has a strong lead.

Siegel
2012-11-11, 11:41 AM
I vote Brewer because making honey mead is fun.

The Glyphstone
2012-11-11, 11:43 AM
Armorer, let's give this young mouse something that's actually militarily relevant so he's not constantly dependent on his insect minions.

Randomatic
2012-11-11, 12:30 PM
I vote Brewer because making honey mead is fun.

I support this notion.

Zelphas
2012-11-11, 01:55 PM
Armorer, let's give this young mouse something that's actually militarily relevant so he's not constantly dependent on his insect minions.

I'm with Glyphstone Here.

Spamotron
2012-11-11, 01:57 PM
I vote Smith its a generally all around useful skill that makes stuff everymouse needs.

Knaight
2012-11-11, 11:06 PM
Cartographer it is. It's useful, it makes sense for a mouse with a good memory (which I still want to put forward), and it provides an excuse to be in a high place with attack-bees.

Water_Bear
2012-11-11, 11:49 PM
Archivist. Always pick up the lore skills, no matter the system. More knowledge is always better in an RPG, even if it's burning San points.

toapat
2012-11-11, 11:59 PM
I vote Smith its a generally all around useful skill that makes stuff everymouse needs.

this, Specialization is something we do while BSoDing for winter as the Everymouse

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-11-12, 04:49 AM
I vote for smith too, who doesn't love forging things?


And now we must choose between them...or any of the others, I guess, but that doesn't really seem like the direction we're going in.

I think I'll reserve judgement until one has a strong lead.

It might just be me, but I don't think this is the point of the thread.

Amphetryon
2012-11-12, 08:24 AM
Apprenticed with a potter. Quite a hairy one. Don't hit me.

Sodalite
2012-11-12, 12:35 PM
It might just be me, but I don't think this is the point of the thread.

Yeah, probably. Thinking more, I suppose I'll go ahead and also vote for Smith.

Shir
2012-11-13, 11:29 AM
Cartographer wagon is go!

goblingravy
2012-11-13, 03:12 PM
He spent years of his life as a smith, a trade to which he took quite well. His trade became lucrative for a handful of years before joining the guard.

My RPG group is currently playing Mouse Guard. It's really fun, and super easy to DM.

The Glyphstone
2012-11-14, 12:34 PM
Oh, and in case anyone is still wondering if we made the right choice with Apiarist, Cracked has a great article today.
http://www.cracked.com/article_20084_the-6-most-mind-blowing-superpowers-bees.html

Siegel
2012-11-15, 09:47 AM
I vote we go on to the next step!

Smith it is!

Next step *cue dramatic music*

What did your mentor stress in training?

Basically after he spend two seasons as an aprentice a young Guardmouse becomes a Tenderpaw and is paired with a mentor for 1-2 years. The mentor is in charge of training the young mouse in the skills of the guard.
We can choose twice from a list of the PATROL SKILLS (the skills most often rolled in the game). These are things that our mentor really did stress in our training.
The list:

Fighter
Instructor
Healer
Pathfinder
Hunter
Scout
Survivalist
Weather Watcher

Everyone should give an A vote and a B vote for the first and second choice.
One thing can be voted for twice.

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-11-15, 10:58 AM
Pathfinder
Hunter

The Glyphstone
2012-11-15, 12:31 PM
Hunter
Pathfinder

Just to be contrary.

goblingravy
2012-11-15, 01:25 PM
OK, well. Seeing as he fears big animals, hunter makes little sense. I vote double pathfinder.

Zelphas
2012-11-15, 01:25 PM
Pathfinder
Scout

Just for fun.

Totally Guy
2012-11-15, 01:29 PM
Pathfinder
Scout

Just for fun.

I was going to say this too.

Knaight
2012-11-15, 01:43 PM
Pathfinder
Survivalist

Spamotron
2012-11-15, 07:56 PM
I'm on the Pathfinder/Scout bandwagon.

Randomatic
2012-11-15, 08:08 PM
I'll vote

Hunter
Scout

Sanguine
2012-11-15, 08:11 PM
Pathfinder
Hunter

Siegel
2012-11-16, 06:58 AM
I vote
Healer
Instructor

Amphetryon
2012-11-16, 10:29 AM
Survivalist
Weather Watcher

Shir
2012-11-17, 08:53 PM
Pathfinder
Scout

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-11-19, 05:27 PM
It's been a while now, can I respectfully suggest that we tally the score and move on?

Spamotron
2012-11-19, 08:35 PM
If both first and second choice have equal weight then it works out to:

Pathfinder 9 Votes
Scout 5 Votes
Hunter 4 Votes
Survivalist 2 Votes
Healer 1 Vote
Instructor 1 Vote
Weather Watcher 1 Vote

If we weight first and second choice differently with say the first choice getting two points and the second getting One point then it works out to:

Pathfinder 17 Points
Hunter 6 Points
Scout 5 Points
Survivalist 3 Points
Healer 2 Points
Instructor 1 Point
Weather Watcher 1 Point

So it works out to Pathfinder and either Scout or Hunter depending on how we weight the votes.

Sodalite
2012-11-19, 08:39 PM
I think what we're doing is instant run-off, so if someone's first choice doesn't win, then their vote counts for their second choice instead. I'm not sure if we are doing that, though, so maybe you're right.

Siegel
2012-11-20, 10:45 AM
We have to skill points to distribute basically.
Everyone voted for the first and the second skillpoint.

Right now i have a clear winner for 1 point in Pathfinder and the second in Scout.


The next step is a bit more difficult. We get 8 points to spend on 9 different skills. I am not sure on how to vote for that.

The skills are:

Fighter, Hunter, Healer, Instructor, Pathfinder, Scout, Weather Watcher, Survivalist, Cook

This is what i would suggest:

I give out a few different arrays of skill point distribution and we vote if we want a focused or a broad skill set or something in between. After we have the array we vote what skill get's the points. Does this sound okay?

The natural cap of a skill is 6. After this step we can add one more point to one of the patrol skills (on of the above beside Cook) and then we have a step called Tally where each skill that got activated will get another +1. This is the final value of the skill.

The arrays i think make sense are:

[1] 5 - 3
[2] 4 - 2 - 2
[3] 3 - 3 - 2
[4] 2 - 2 - 2 -2 :
[5] 2 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 1
[6] 2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1

A wide array of skills in general is usefull because you get more out of the Tally. Also this is a mouse that is supposed to be able to work on missions alone so keep that in mind.
He still could put it all really focused though.

To help you, here we have the skills right now

Pathfinder 2
Scout 1
Apiarist 1
Insectrist 1
Smith 1

Edit: I forgot a Step! Shame on me. Besides voting for the Skill array above please also vote for
"How do you convince other Mice that you are right or to do what you need?"
In this step we get a social skill.
Chose on of this skills:
Orator - Talking to groups of mice and making big speeches
Persuader - talking to a single mouse to make him to your wish
Deciver - verbal tricks and other naughty stuff. Bascialy the two other skills are being honest and nice to other mice, this one is lying, intimidating or fast talking

Shir
2012-11-20, 11:20 AM
Persuader
you can convince others with your logic.
2 Pathfinder, scout, survivalist.
you are at home outdoors

toapat
2012-11-20, 11:34 AM
Orator, Apiarist, insectrist.

Siegel
2012-11-20, 11:36 AM
Orator, Apiarist, insectrist.

???

We have to vote for 1 social skill and for one array.

I am sorry but there are no more opportunities to get points in the "crafty" skills like Apiarist and Insectrist.
The only skills we still can get points in are the Patrol Skills, but we will get to that later.

The Glyphstone
2012-11-20, 11:38 AM
Array #5:
Hunter, Healer, Survivalist - Fighter, Weather Watcher

And Persuader for a Social skill.

toapat
2012-11-20, 11:41 AM
???

We have to vote for 1 social skill and for one array.

I am sorry but there are no more opportunities to get points in the "crafty" skills like Apiarist and Insectrist.
The only skills we still can get points in are the Patrol Skills, but we will get to that later.

your post is confusing

Siegel
2012-11-20, 11:55 AM
your post is confusing

Okay i try again.

Right now we are doing two steps at once.

The first is

"What do you do to convince others that you are right and to do what you want"

In this step we have to choose one social skill from
Persuader
Orator
Deciver

--------------------------------------------------

The second step is called
"What kind of experience do you have in the Guard?"

In this step we get 8 points that we can spend on a group of skills called the Patrol skills (and Cook, because that's what you can choose extra as a Patrol guard)

The Patrol skills are the skills most often used in conflicts in the game.
They are
Fighter, Hunter, Survivalist, Weather Watcher, Pathfinder, Scout, Instructor and Healer

To make voting easier we will vote on that as a two step process. At first we choose if we want to spend them focused or spread. In the next round we will vote for the skills to give points too.

---------------------------------------------------

So for this step we will vote for a social skill and one of the arrays i posted above.

Is this clear now?

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-11-20, 12:13 PM
Persuader, because it seems the best option for a single honest mouse.

4, I like the mix between spread and focus, this way all our other votes determined what will be 'focused' on, while this(and next) one give us the baseline.
In addition it will make the next vote a lot easier as we won't have to worry about orders.

Randomatic
2012-11-20, 12:33 PM
Array #5:
Hunter, Healer, Survivalist - Fighter, Weather Watcher

And Persuader for a Social skill.

I support this, let's see if we can get another wagon rolling.

Spamotron
2012-11-20, 01:03 PM
Persuader as his social skill.

Array # 4

Pathfinder, Scout, Survivalist, Fighter

Zelphas
2012-11-20, 01:27 PM
Persuader
you can convince others with your logic.
2 Pathfinder, scout, survivalist.
you are at home outdoors

I'll second this one.

goblingravy
2012-11-20, 01:28 PM
In my playgroup, persuader is great, while orator is rarely useful, and nobody even has points in deceiver, being honest guard mice. Another reason my vote goes to persuader is that I don't see our mouse being particularly good at the other two, looking at the rest of what we've picked for him. As for the arrays of skills, I vote array 3, putting in 3 points to both fighter and hunter, and 2 in scout. I like the idea that our fairly youthful, able-bodied guard mouse is adept at combating wild animals and other mice alike. I chose scout because it yet again fits our theme and is quite useful for many more things than just, well, scouting.

Sanguine
2012-11-20, 04:45 PM
Array #5:
Hunter, Healer, Survivalist - Fighter, Weather Watcher

And Persuader for a Social skill.

I will third this.

Amphetryon
2012-11-21, 07:36 AM
Array #5:
Hunter, Healer, Survivalist - Fighter, Weather Watcher

And Persuader for a Social skill.

Bandwagon'd.

Siegel
2012-11-22, 05:00 AM
So array five is leading with 2 votes more than 2 and 4. I will give this until this afternoon and then we can talk about what skills to buy with this points.

Knaight
2012-11-23, 12:52 AM
Survivalist, array 2.

Siegel
2012-11-27, 12:57 PM
Sop it's Array 5 2 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 1

And we can spend these on

Fighter, Hunter, Scout, Pathfinder, Instructor, Healer, Weather Watcher, Survivalist, Cook


I think anyone should rate 5 skills with ranks 1 (lowest) to 5 (highest) and i will count these together to get what skills got the most votes etc. etc. etc.

We already have 2 points in pathfinder and 1 in scout. Let the voting continue.

I vote

Survivalist 5
Healer 4
Scout 3
Hunter 2
Pathfinder 1

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-11-27, 01:16 PM
5 Fighter
4 Hunter
3 Scout
2 Pathfinder
1 Survivalist

Amphetryon
2012-11-27, 01:38 PM
5-Survivalist
4-Scout
3-Hunter
2-Weather Watcher
1-Pathfinder

The Glyphstone
2012-11-27, 01:58 PM
Hunter, Healer, Survivalist, Fighter, Weather Watcher

Sanguine
2012-11-27, 04:31 PM
Seconding Glyphstone's vote.

Draz74
2012-11-30, 05:57 PM
Fighter, Hunter, Healer, Instructor, Pathfinder, Scout, Weather Watcher, Survivalist, Cook

5. Cook
4. Hunter
3. Instructor
2. Healer
1. Fighter

Sodalite
2012-11-30, 06:46 PM
I'll second Draz, here.

Siegel
2012-12-03, 02:08 PM
So, let's count everything together and then we will go to the next Step, Specialty!



From my count the array goes to!


hunter 2
fighter 2
healer 2
survil 1
cook 1


This leaves our mouse with the following skills:


Pathfinder II
hunter II
fighter II
healer II
Survivalist I
Scout I
Cook I
Apiarist I
Smith I
Insectrist I

Now we have 1 last skillpoint that we can award to our mouses specialty.
The skill has to be chosen from the patrol skill (and no two mice in one game can have the same specialty)

The skills are (to remind you)
Fighter, Hunter, Pathfinder, Scout, Weather Watcher, Survivalist, Instructor, Healer

We award this skill point and then every skill we have get's +1 (isn't that cool?)

Sodalite
2012-12-03, 02:34 PM
I'll go ahead and vote for Instructor.

Also, if no one minds me asking, has there been a characterization of the mouse we're voting on here, sort of like how we've had a characterization for the orc in the other thread ever since we decided on Great One?

Edit: looking again and noticing that this is supposed to be an explicit specialization, rather just another skill, I'll go ahead and shift to Fighter.

Amphetryon
2012-12-03, 03:07 PM
I vote Weather Watcher.

Draz74
2012-12-03, 03:10 PM
I think our mouse-fellow is already plenty well-rounded and eclectic; he needs to specialize rather than picking up yet another skill. So I vote ... oh, Fighter I suppose.

Zelphas
2012-12-03, 04:15 PM
I'll jump on the Fighter bandwagon. This mouse has enough skills.

The Glyphstone
2012-12-03, 05:56 PM
Fighter it shall be.

Fenix_of_Doom
2012-12-04, 08:20 AM
I vote Pathfinder.

I had a larger reply, but the server ate it, I might come back to it later.