Favorite Gestalt Combos?

[Zelkon]

What are your favorites? And why? What can they do that makes them so good/fun?

[mrcarter11]

Well let us see here.

Always popular is wizard(or psion), factotum and warblade mixed in any form.

Personal favorites though, binder//totemist(or incarnate). I can change everything I do on a daily basis, I manage to be strictly okay in combat, and I'm great out of combat for whatever skill needs you have. Also just fun for the RP aspect of channeling soul energy to armor yourself and then you seal a spirit inside yourself.

Also, while it is totally MAD and therefor not the greatest thing in the world, a duskblade//favored soul can be quite fun. I usually just focus on a single mental score, which is commonly Wis, though I do use Int sometimes. Duskblade and favored souls get enough spells that you don't need to worry about have a high Cha for extra, and I typically channel the cleric spells you gain from FS. You get full BAB, all good saves, a decent HD, good touch spells and a decent list of buff spells.

[INoKnowNames]

Unarmed Swordsage + Fighter. A nice mid powered combo. Not too uncomplimentary, either. The fighter's increased hp, bab, forttude save, and bonus feats all complement the swordsage quite nicely. And the Swordsage has actual class features. Unarmed because Street Fighter. SHORYUKEN!

I'm also looking to pull off a Warblade // Caster / Swiftblade 9 / Caster, ad take Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Full Blade. Because Final Fantasy. And Omnislash.

[Kantolin]

Binder // Spirit Shaman.

They're all just spirits guys. There isn't that much different about them. Some are whinier and demandier than others, sure, but meh.

[Jeff the Green]

Dread Necromancer/Dread Witch//Paladin of Tyranny is fun for scaring the bejeezus out of everyone.
Beguiler//Swordsage is one of very few builds that can effectively use the Shadow Trickster feat.
Beguiler//Archivist is lots of fun, especially if you focus on summoning and illusions of summons.
Incarnate//anything is always awesome, but I particularly like Incarnate//Dragonfire Adept.
Neutral Cleric//Dread Necromancer gets two turning pools for DMM.
Cleric//Dread Necromancer 1/Binder 1/Anima Mage has two turning pools and 1/5 turns can reduce the DMM cost by 1 by using Tenebrous's ability.
Monster class//PC class is really cool, since the biggest problem with monster classes is their levels where you don't get HD. I particularly like Succubus//Bard/Marshal/Paladin/Crusader/RKV.


There are also a lot of complicated builds I'm fond of. For example, right now I'm playing a Dryad 3/Cloistered Cleric 2/Holt Warden 2//Crafty Hunter Ape Totem Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Ranger 1/Swordsage 1/Desert Warblade 1/Witch Hunter (OA) 1. (Dryad and Desert Warblade ACF are homebrew, but could be replaced with cleric and regular warblade levels.)

[God Imperror]

Binder // Cleric (or paladin)

Tenebrous turn undead + Divine feats what is not to love?

Soulborn // Divine mind

Yeah, those are some of the worst classes on their own but there are some cool incarnum / psionic tricks like infinite pp. I also build one who ended being an awesome area buffer, defender, tripper, AoO lockdowner. It is also a really flavorful paladin, and it is difficultly over powered by anyone's standards.

Artificer // Ninja (from rokugan campaign setting)

One of my (by far) favorite gestalt combinations. I fell in love with artificer's since I started playing one. Ninja was a flavorful addition, and not an over powering one, that complimented it nicely. Warblade is also a great option, but overall leads to a more front line character, and I really enjoy the sneaky artificer.

[Eldonauran]

Druid//Totemist

:smallamused:

Dip a level of Monk and Fist of the Forest, on the Totemist side.

Max the mental stats, mediocre physical stats. Flavor to your liking.

[Arcanist]

Depends on Tier of Game Play really, but in a TO setting I enjoy Wizard//Archivist for just saying "No" to everything :smalltongue:

[docnessuno]

Artificer // Factotum
Warblade // Factotum
Wizard // Archivist
Duskblade // Wizard

[Medic!]

I've never actually got to play one, but Soulknife // [Insert Full BAB class with good fort saves] has always appealed to me, being a melee-happy kinda guy.

My first gestalt was a scout // warlock, which I enjoyed deeply.

[Dayaz]

I've been tinkering with Binder// Wizard/ Fiendbinder

When researching truenames bind the guy that gives you +knowledge checks. Then when you have demons that you make charge in, bind to become invis at will, mixed with the assassin one. You get to sneak around, flank and death attack mooks while the demons distract everything ^^

[Mordokai]

It's my long time wish to come up with a fun, if not totally optimized, bard//beguiler combo.

I really should get to it one of these days.

[Xefas]

Commoner//Aristocrat

Breaking all the socioeconomic class barriers!

[LTwerewolf]

Scout/ranger//swordsage is really fun. Up close? Too bad for you. Far away? Too bad for you.

[toapat]

Fighter//Rogue. I like the simplicity but depth you can get from the combo.

granted, it isnt the most optimized one though

[Mjollnir075]

In 3.PF, which is what I play, I would go with
- PF Soulknife // Swordsage
- PF Soulknife // Rogue/Assassin
- Bard (with DFI) // Crusader
- PF Master of Many Styles Monk // PF Dervish Dancer Bard
- Totemist // PF Monk/PF Psychic Warrior (With Tashalatora)
- PF Synthesist Summoner (Evo. points spent to make Eidolon Draconic)// Dragonfire Adept

These builds are simply ideas I thought would be cool, and at my average/comfort area of the tiers.

[MarsRendac]

Monk//rogue with a high point buy can get pretty amusing. Not a high op combo, but stunning a creature and then sneak attack flurrying gives you lots of fun die rolling to do.

Barbarian//scout is under the same category. You're faster than a warhorse and your charges prompt skirmish rolls. Skill Knowledge (iaijutsu focus) is always an option if you REALLY like d6's. Bonus points if you play as a werewolf.

[Razanir]

Monk//Cleric

Step One– Prepare your choice of cure spell
Step Two– Start a flurry of blows and punch your ally for nonlethal damage, also casting the spell
Step Three– Spin around and release the rest of your fury upon your enemies

[Eugenides]

I've only done one, it was in a low-op setting, however.

Druid//Barbarian

Cast Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance on yourself. Rage with the extended rage feat. No shapeshift needed.

But really, it's got some fun things it can pull off.

[Amnestic]

I like the idea of Binder//DFA, since as I recall they're both fairly Cha/Con focused and Binder gets some cool passive abilities.

Bard//DFA too since DFA isn't terribly feat intensive (Entangling Exhalation and Ability Focus (Breath Weapon) are basically the mainstays) and DFA gives you Dragontouched for free.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I had fun with a Druid//Psywarrior/Warshaper with the Dragon Wild Shape feat.

Augmented Expansion and morphic weapons made for a rather effective melee fighter.:smallbiggrin:

[Cog]

Binder is already popular, but I'll add //Crusader to the list; you're adaptable, superbly tanky, and can be relatively 'mundane' while still keeping up with the power curve of Gestalt.

Shadowcrafter // (Something)/Telflammar Shadowlord has nice potential, able to shadowpounce as an immediate action basically every round of a fight, for an increasing number of fights/day as you get more uses of your Mysteries. I'm still toying with ways of making that full attack worthwhile, though; Thug Fighter or the like for that (something), maybe.

Dragonfire Adept // Sorcerer (Dragonblooded, Stalwart) makes for a surprisingly tough character even before spells. Stalwart's HP boost stacks with Adept's bigger hit die, and the various metabreath spells let you turn low-DC slots into boosts for your already potent breath. Drow of the Underdark gets you some nice use for Adept's Darkness SLA, while the draconic heritage you get from Sorcerer can get you the Hide skill to make use of it.

Shaper Psion/Constructor // Totemist is like a Druid-plus; instead of summoning bears and being a bear, you can summon custom-built monsters and become a custom-built monster.

[Zelkon]

What would you pair a Dread Necro with?

[eggs]

Archivist // Eternal Blade with Knowledge Devotion. Because "I AM HITTING YOU WITH MY BOOKLEARNIN'!" can't be shouted loudly enough.

[Kazyan]

I've been wanting to try a Warlock//Bard/Warblade. DFI Bardblade Glaivelock that can do a little bit of everything, really, and 3 full attacks in a round at high levels is just fun. Play it like Maeda Keiji from that Koei game no one knows about.

[Fouredged Sword]

Warforged - Warblade / Warforged Juggernaut // Psion

If high level - Warforged charger warblade / warforged juggernaut // psion (the int hit hurts, but the look on their faces is priceless)

energy ray for a ranged attack, immune to everything, self buffing, armored tank. Expansion to be learned with a feat.

If the game is TO
warforged Warblade / Warforged juggernaut // Psion / the class that gives you unlimitted PP for a short time.

Exploit a few things. A power that makes duration not expend themselves (forget the name) to have unlimited PP. Use flaws to get trollblooded and become immune to HP damage.

I am immortal and my eyes are made of stars....

[etrpgb]

Swordsage / Duskblade... LOTS of options!

Sorcerer/Favorite Soul... RAW power!

[AdamT]

Binder is already popular, but I'll add //Crusader to the list; you're adaptable, superbly tanky, and can be relatively 'mundane' while still keeping up with the power curve of Gestalt.


Might I suggest Dvati artificer // Crusader? Be a tank. Be two tanks in fact. That LIKE to get hit. And craft your own gear. Lots of it, since you have double slots. Extra points if you make them the Captain America build and have one dressed like Cap while the other is U S Agent.

[gallagher]

Crusader/Cloistered Cleric of Fharlanghn. Protection devotion but not travel devotion (travel domain is too sexy IMO). DMM Quicken instead of persist (again, stylistic preferences) and dominate.

[Gnaeus]

What would you pair a Dread Necro with?

Already answered in other people's posts, but neutral cleric to allow 2 turning pools or Blackguard or other evil paladin variant for lots of charisma and fear synergy are common. If you can take templates or monster classes on the other side there are some good undead options there as well (I like gravetouched ghoul or almost anything with the advanced template).

[Tvtyrant]

My favorite has to be a Beguiler/Shadowcraft Mage//Artificer. Now you can infuse the pseudo-real items with your infusions!

[Emperor Tippy]

When not using homebrew, Factotum//Psion for caster primary, Factotum//Swordsage for scout/assassin primary, and factotum//warblade for melee primary.

Usually on a grey elf with FMI.

[Southern Cross]

Depends on the classes available:
Standard D & D: Wizard/Archivist.
Pathfinder: Wizard/Witch.
Arcana Evolved: Magister / Unfettered.

[gorfnab]

Crusader // Dragon Shaman - Cha SAD buffer/tank
Crusader // Bard /Sublime Chord - Cha SAD buffer/leader
Bard // Dread Necromancer - + Requiem feat = "Cause this is thriller, thriller night"
Hexblade // Warlock - Cha based debuffer, decent for fear stacking
Hexblade // Binder - Versatile Cha based tank/debuffer
Warblade // Artificer - + Warforged = self repairing tank
Dread Necromancer // Paladin of Tyranny - Undead leader

[kardar233]

My favourites:

Dragonwrought Kobold Warlock6/Paladin of Freedom2/Cloistered Cleric1/Hellfire Warlock3/Legacy Champion//WhirlPounceBarb1/Bard4/Shou Disciple1/Warblade14
Extremely feat-intensive as you want all of: Song of the White Raven, Dragonwrought, Beast Strike, Eldritch Claws, Improved Rapidstrike, Dragonfire Inspiration, Draconic Heritage (Pyroclastic Dragon), Words of Creation. It's great fun to be swinging for ALL the d6s.

I'm also a big fan of dual-full-caster Persistomancers.

I also really like Divine Minion/Master of Many Forms/Other Wildshape-progressing classes as one side for non-full-caster characters. Works best with Incarnate and Swordsage.

[Dr.Epic]

Rogue/Fighter

Sorcerer/Cleric

[Dayaz]

I thought of a new one :D

Psion (shaper)// Wilder

Because 686 Power Points with Wild Surge isn't going to just ruin somethings day.

[Dr.Epic]

Fighter/Paladin can also be fun as well as Fighter/Monk or Monk/Paladin.

[MarsRendac]

For one NPC, a famously bloodthirsty werewolf, I went with ranger//reaping mauler (houseruled to be a base class for him, since it's so weak as a PrC), then into ranger//nature's warrior to make his hybrid form more beastly and such. He helped a monk//rogue PC overcome her monk//rogue master with laughable ease, despite a huge CR difference. Then again, he loved homebrew poisons exactly as much as I do.

[Jeff the Green]

Already answered in other people's posts, but neutral cleric to allow 2 turning pools or Blackguard or other evil paladin variant for lots of charisma and fear synergy are common. If you can take templates or monster classes on the other side there are some good undead options there as well (I like gravetouched ghoul or almost anything with the advanced template).

Other options/variations on a theme for Dread Necromancer include Wilder/Thrallherd for an even more ginormous army, Cleric/Walker in the Waste for the yummy Dry Lich template, or Paladin/Crusader/RKV. For monsters, Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) are awesome: 7 RHD (fey), +2 LA, Charisma to AC and saves (that stack with Paladin if you want), +6 Charisma, and 7th level bard casting. Throw on gravetouched ghoul if you want, or stick with Tomb Tainted Soul, since neither Necropolitan nor Lich can be applied to fey.

[TypoNinja]

I've never actually got to play one, but Soulknife // [Insert Full BAB class with good fort saves] has always appealed to me, being a melee-happy kinda guy.

My first gestalt was a scout // warlock, which I enjoyed deeply.

I was thinking of trying that, doing the whole binder/hellfire warlock thing stacking up skirmish and just rolling d'6s like its going out of style, seems like it'd be amusing. How powerful did you find it to be?

[Rejakor]

I typically use gestalt to do crazy stuff the rules don't normally let you do, like a vampire bard gish, or a teleport-gish or paladin ubercharger or whatever.

But I recently played a binder//incarnate and a incarnate/totemist, and it really made me want to play a binder//incarnate/totemist. Mantle of Flame + Incarnate Avatar (Evil) + Landshark Boots + Savnok = Good Times.

[Roc Ness]

Oh, oh, oh! One of these threads again! :smallbiggrin:

I maintaining that my favourite Gestalt Combination is a Swift Hunter//Swiftblade gish!

Simple and elegant! You are insanely fast moving, you're initiative is through the roof, you can run circles around everything with your mobility, and you can get an extra move and standard action each round! Couple that with full BAB, bonus damage from Skirmish, Arcane Strike, etc. you can pack a ridiculous punch with blade or bow or whatever else (Thunderlance is cool).

And this isn't even factoring in all the niceties of having near full casting progression, and two standard actions every round with which to play with that, or crazy combos with, say Anti-magic field, or throwing around Double Arcane Strike Supercharged Greater Manyshots. An above average amount of skill points is icing on the cake; and I haven't mentioned that you get a decent number of bonus feats as well.

Plus you can get more complex! Throw in a full 5 levels of Abjurant Champion for powerful defensive buffs, maybe include two more levels of Paladin if you want to use Sorcadin; together they put your defenses through the roof as well!

Seriously, this is my perenial favourite Gestalt combo.

I feel like playing one again...


EDIT: Noting the above, this is probably Scout//Warlock supercharged...

[Diovid]

Shifter Druid // Ranger with the Shifter Druid and Shifter Ranger substitution levels, possibly prestiging on the Ranger side.

[Blue Lantern]

When playing Gestalt I always use the occasion to play a powerful race or high la template.
Some of my favourites.

Astral Deva // Sorcadin or Favoured Soul/Sacred Excorcist
Lich // True Necromancer
Ghost // Ultimate Magus
Fey (Nymph or pixie) // Druid
Dragon // Enlightned Fist

[Sylvos330]

There are two I've always wanted to try:

Warlock//Paladin of Freedom for some fun glave tricks. Maybe throw a level of Battledancer so I can run around without armor.

Paladin//Monk to really beef up flurry of blows.

Either way, not a powerfull but very fun tank.

[zalmatra]

pathfinder

Wizard/Scholar

Basicly a souped up wizard with average bab good ref a larger skill pool rogue trapfinding abilities and the ability to grant your allies a variety of bonus's and a general increase to your already considerble wizardy abilities

scholar+wizard is basicly being gandalf :3 which is why i love it so the nice abilities let you customize your wizard into diffrent roles.

[Amphetryon]

Dread Necromancer//Crusader: Follow me, even after death.

Binder//Dread Necromancer: See above.

Wilder//Warlock: All your pewpew are belong to us.

[Myrddin0001]

-Wizard(conjuration focused specialist) 10//master specialist 10/psion telepath(telepathic substitution levels) 20

-warblade 20/factotum 20

-rougue 20/ninja 15//invisible blade 5

-Druid 20/spirit shaman 20

-unarmed swordsage 20/fighter 20

[Magnera]

One of my personal favorites? That would be going bard/sorrceror//Paladin/Abjchampion. It makes for quite the gish!

A second one is to be a Goliath and go fighter/barbarian with warhulk on one of the other sides with a spiked chain, trip knockdown and knockback for insane damage with a crazy reach. If I could I would add in half dragon into that!

[UserShadow7989]

Ooh, I love Gestalt- a lot of classes that have cool abilities but are lacking in some areas make great pairs with each other.

Monk//Warlock - The Warlock grants some much needed range and modes of maneuverability to the Monk, and both classes have lots of fun tricks with very few limits. Get the blast shape that lets you channel your Eldritch Blast through your unarmed strike and the invocations that grant climb/fly speed. Not really a powerful build (Why hello there, massive MAD) but looks pretty fun. Shame that the only possible alignment for this is lawful evil (I never liked playing evil characters), though the idea of a martial artist who delved into darker things to 'cheat' for his strength rather than 'earn' it would make a cool villain.

Fighter//Rogue - Fighter grants the HD and armor needed to be a front liner with bonus feats that let you pick up some neat stuff, while the Rogue's sneak attack adds plenty of damage so long as you have a flanking buddy (enhanced by the Fighter's full BAB ensuring more hits) and his skill points/list and trapfinding makes up for the Fighter's lack of out of combat options.

Barbarian//Rogue - Same as above, minus the armor and plus the ability to Rage (not sure if you can sneak attack during a rage, though my gut says no). It means you always have a damage option should you run out of Rages somehow. This always struck me as good for a member of a more peaceful barbaric tribe, focusing on traps, trade, and making things rather than raids on cities for supplies, or a good way to get around the 'dumb brute' character type commonly associated with the barbarian.

Monk//Rogue - Lots of maneuverability to get into sneak attack position, flurry of blows combined with sneak attack hits hard and fast, though it should be noted you're still pretty squishy.

Barbarian//Dragon Shaman - Lots of raw power from the Barbarian, with some support and crowd control from the Dragon Shaman. It's not especially powerful, but I recall making a good intimidate build using Dragon Shaman and a Barbarian dip. (Off topic tangent below)

Captain Frank Morgan, Neutral Good captain, who preferred to use his large stature and abilities to scare enemies off rather than risk damage to his crew or vessel over an easily avoided battle. I remember using a hat of disguise to make him appear even bigger and undead, a horn of fog to create a ear-piercing sound and thick fog to accompany his appearance.

His Bronze (I think?) heritage's breath weapon meant he could create small bolts of lightning in his own mouth to really drive home the image of 'run away'. He even had abyssal as a language to so he could mutter random insults in a threatening tone for a laugh and still scare people.

Other ones I would like to see (no matter how infeasible) are:
Druid//Rogue - You come with your own flanking buddy! It can represent a more free spirit version of 'one with nature', or could be the character embracing the crueler side of nature and its predators.

Ozodrin (a popular homebrew on this site)//Paladin (possibly the version from Project Heretica, another homebrew I love) - something that I came up with when I learned a lot of early depictions of angels and the like had them as stuff that looked like they came from a Lovecraft story, and often had to announce their presence with 'Don't fear me!' or 'Don't worship me!'. I remember having a fun, lengthy chat with my group over how this would work.

A personal bit of flavor we go by is that just as places like the farplane are harmful to the sanity of any mortal on the material plane, lesser monsters from the farplane are harmed by the material plane- there's just too massive a gap going from nearly no laws of reality to a very strict set of laws and the other way around.

So, I pictured a weaker farplanes monster ending up and the material plane, going bonkers, and requiring the intervention of a group of adventurers. Paladin charges in to battle it while the party caster tries to complete a special spell to get rid of it, things get desperate, caster botches their attempt to banish the thing and it gets stuck in the Paladin.

The shock of two VASTLY different minds and sets of world views causes the Paladin to go comatose for a length of time, holding their sanity together solely through raw will and their unshakable belief in their own cause. When they wake from it, they have to deal with a voice in their head that seems to have no grasp of reality and strange urges/powers that they can only just control.

The true form ability would be flavored as the farplanes creature coming out to play, and as the two start to get a very loose grasp of how each other thinks, it would get progressively more angelic in form.

-Ranger//Swashbuckler. Pick up a parrot animal companion and specialize against types common in water-based encounters, and you've got the perfect companion for a seafaring journey. If a parrot doesn't work for you, try a snapping turtle or the like- I keep thinking back to Muppet Treasure Island's depiction of Long John Silver, who had a talking crab and was clearly confounded by the idea of a talking parrot.

-Bard//Anything. Because I love bards for reasons I can't quite comprehend.

[Dayaz]

...I must admit, I'm loving the rp behind that Ozodrin/Paladin ...

Maybe I should find a good guy gestalt game >.>

[Daer]

Never had chance to play gestalt but if i ever get i will try bard/warlock.
Sure not optimal but i kinda like those classes.

[ZeroSpace9000]

I myself have played 2 gestalt characters, but 1 of those was used for all of 1 session before the game in question just fell apart. The other one was a Duskblade/SpellSword//Wizard. Stayed in Duskblade just long enough to pick up 1 Quick Cast, then jumped into Spell Sword for some awesome spell channeling. Wizard was on it's own, unadulterated, to provide the spellcasting backbone that made the character tick.

I so want to play that gish again... *sigh*

[Gnaeus]

Ooh, I love Gestalt- a lot of classes that have cool abilities but are lacking in some areas make great pairs with each other.

Other ones I would like to see (no matter how infeasible) are:
Druid//Rogue - You come with your own flanking buddy! It can represent a more free spirit version of 'one with nature', or could be the character embracing the crueler side of nature and its predators..

I am amused at the fact that by far the most effective combo you listed was stuck in the "infeasible" section. While not quite as awesome as T1 caster//factotum, it is an excellent damage build (Pounce + sneak attack with a form with lots of weapons), with good defenses (all good saves with Wis and Con focus, evasion, uncanny dodge, and druid immunities), and good utility (good skill points, awesome mental stats, scouting forms, trapfinding, and of course T1 casting).

[Man on Fire]

Frenzied Berserker/Psychic Warrior always sounded like a goog build for me. A lot of battle-oriented pionic powers, both require high Wisdom.

Dread Necromancer/Paladin of Tyranny or Slaughter. Not only they work well in fluff, evil Paladin gives us everything Dread Necro dreams of - d10 hit dice, Charisma to saves, good fortitude save, abilities that works well with Dread Necro's basic abilities, that's ust fun thing.

[Trenelus]

I have been really enjoying playing gunslinger/inquisitor in a recent pathfinder game; former villain who turned anti-hero, looking for his own place in the mad world, and possibly redemption.

[Techwarrior]

Duskblade//Feat Variant Rogue- Good saves, Evasion, Full BAB, and lots of skills and feats. Throw in a couple of Hexblade levels for Mettle and that Dark Knight feel.

Dragon Shaman//Bard- So... much... support!

Bard/Evasion Dip of choice//Fighter- Good saves, Evasion, great General type guy. Also, makes a great member of a small party.

[Amphetryon]

Hexblade//Paladin of Tyranny is fun as well, though there's some overlap in abilities.

[HunterOfJello]

Sorcerer/Geomancer//Druid with Dynamic Priest feat. Pure Charisma casting as a sorcerer and druid with all the bells and whistles of the druid base class.

[Fouredged Sword]

Duskblade // bard - for that FF1 redmage feel.

[eggs]

There is something about Dwarf Sorcerer/Runesmith/War Weaver//Totemist/Deepwarden (arranged for full casting and no simultaneous PrCs) that I find deeply satisfying. Probably all the Con.

[Draz74]

After all these years, I'm still amused by how much synergy Druid//Ninja has, in spite of Ninja being such a terrible class.

Likewise, Favored Soul//Knight is more than the sum of its parts. Still has 2 skill points, though, which is tragic.

I still have a fondness for Psion//Factotum/Warblade builds, including (but not limited to) my old build Dooby Delver, Psion//Factotum with Vow of Poverty, who is too self-sufficient to need an adventuring party or equipment.

Swordsage//Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms/Warshaper could be fun.

If I want to "powergame" and use feats and tactics that would be too cheesy for my normal taste (but not really use them to optimize to the extreme), then I can turn to Murn, the "Ultimate Warrior":

Warblade // Unarmed Swordsage
Warblade // Feat Rogue
Warblade // Whirling Frenzy Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian
Warblade // Psychic Warrior
Warblade // Wolf Totem Barbarian
Warblade // Feat Rogue
Warblade // Psychic Warrior
Warblade // Swordsage
Warblade // Crusader
Warblade // Crusader
Warblade // Fighter
Warblade // Fighter
Warblade // Uncanny Trickster
Warblade // Master of Nine
Warblade // Uncanny Trickster
Warblade // Uncanny Trickster
Warblade // Master of Nine
Warblade // Master of Nine
Warblade // Master of Nine
Warblade // Master of Nine

Feats: Weapon Focus (shadow hand weapons), Improved Unarmed Strike, Snap Kick, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (kusari-gama), Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, Improved Trip, Robilar's Gambit, Stormguard Warrior, Desert Wind Dodge, Iron Will, Endurance, Ironheart Aura, Shield Specialization, Improved Shield Bash, Agile Shield Fighter, Shield Ward, Shield Charge, Shield Slam, Battle Jump, Improved Initiative, Adaptive Style, Blind-Fight, Mage Slayer


I've actually thought it would be fun, although not optimal, to see how versatile a Sorcerer//Wilder could end up.

But the real money in Gestalt is to convince your DM that LA only goes on one "side" of the Gestalt progression, then use monster races that have full casting as a racial feature. :smallamused: Couatl is my favorite race for doing this, with Nymph a close second. Lillend is good too.

[TypoNinja]

But the real money in Gestalt is to convince your DM that LA only goes on one "side" of the Gestalt progression, then use monster races that have full casting as a racial feature. :smallamused: Couatl is my favorite race for doing this, with Nymph a close second. Lillend is good too.

That was actually my idea for a Gestalt game, one side as normal the other side some kind of monstrous race. Alas, DM is against the idea of gestalt.

[Gnaeus]

After all these years, I'm still amused by how much synergy Druid//Ninja has, in spite of Ninja being such a terrible class..

This is true for a lot of low tier classes. Ninja, Monk, Fighter, Dragon Shaman can all be very good in gestalt. It is because they have lots of passive (or swift in the case of ninja) abilities that can complement their active side.

[ksbsnowowl]

I had always wanted to play a Druid//Rogue. As pointed out, you have a built-in flanking buddy, and several decent touch spells (Produce Flame and Flameblade foremost among them).

However, while running my Viking-themed gestalt game, I've learned the limitations of Sneak Attack quite well. When over half of my PC's have Barbarian or Rogue levels, it becomes nearly impossible to utilize sneak attack in an effective way, due to Uncanny Dodge.

A similar but somewhat better build in that respect is Druid//Scout. Tack on Improved Skirmish, and your Girallon's Blessinged Tiger-Form druid is attacking seven times, getting up to +7d6 damage to each attack.

One of my players right now is a Druid//Sorcerer with Arcane Strike, getting a similar result by burning some of his arcane spell slots.

Here's another nice one:
Wizard/Circle Magic User PrC*//Archivist

*either Hathran, Red Wizard, or Halruaan Elder

Get the Acidic Splatter reserve feat. Heighten one of your acid spells to 20th level. It won't go away until you cast it (hint, don't ever cast it). Your acidic splatter has a 100-foot range, and deals 20d6 acid damage.

Use Circle Magic to boost your caster level to 39. Note that it would increase your CL on both sides. Cast Hunter's Eye (Rng 2) from your Archivist List. You now have +13d6 sneak attack for one round. When you get 8th level spells, make sure you take Persistent Spell to get sneak attack all the time.

Of course, Leadership is a good thing here, getting you people from which to get Circle Magic spell levels.

[Gnaeus]

However, while running my Viking-themed gestalt game, I've learned the limitations of Sneak Attack quite well. When over half of my PC's have Barbarian or Rogue levels, it becomes nearly impossible to utilize sneak attack in an effective way, due to Uncanny Dodge..

Yes, class abilities that are made to suck by the conditions in that campaign world do suck in that campaign. A cleric in a world where the gods suddenly stopped granting spells or a druid in a world with no animals available to summon or wildshape into might also be less than effective.

[Metahuman1]

Yes, class abilities that are made to suck by the conditions in that campaign world do suck in that campaign. A cleric in a world where the gods suddenly stopped granting spells...........

Can we say, Dragonlance?

[TopCheese]

What are your favorites? And why? What can they do that makes them so good/fun?

Crusader//Cleric (eventually using divine anima mage... then RKV...yeah.. it gets sick fast) actually got this one from a friend... Need to find that one again.

Warblade//Wizard: Str = Int > Con > Everything else... I can be a melee beast or a god depending on my mood for the day.

Binder//Crusader (I won't even really need KotSS)

Hmmm one last one...

Totemist//Wizard... Nothing better than when a "mage" let's his other two arms out and grapples the elder dragon after mind raping the other monsters to do his bidding of course....... Str/Int/Con focus

[Doorhandle]

Pathfinder fighter + pathfinder totem barbarian.

Use extra rage power feat 20+ times.

Acquire ALL the rage powers.

Alternately, Style-monk+barbarian, if the D.M would allow it. basically, I would grab snake style, panther style, combat reflexes, and as many rage powers allowing AoOs as I could.

BREAK YOURSELVES UPON MY BODY!

[hex0]

Focused Specialist Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 4/Malconvoker 5/Nar Demonbinder 1/Ultimate Magus 7//Trickster Spellthief 20

(though getting UM allowed in Gestalt is tricky)

Ultimate gestalt (two prcs at a time, no ban on theurges) build:

Focused Specialist UA Variant Conjurer 3/Trickster Spellthief 3
Master Specialist 2/Trickster Spellthief 2
Master Specialist 8/Demonologist 8
Nar Demonbinder 1/Demonologist 1
Nar Demonbinder 6/Ultimate Magus 6

Ridiculous caster level that I don't even want to calculate (and your summons have bonus HP equal to said ridiculous caster level!). Swift action summon a Bebilith or Hezrou by casting Summon Monster V at level 14.

In more rigid gestalt, Nar Demonbinder, Malkonvoker, and/or Demonologist are still golden.

[ksbsnowowl]

Yes, class abilities that are made to suck by the conditions in that campaign world do suck in that campaign. A cleric in a world where the gods suddenly stopped granting spells or a druid in a world with no animals available to summon or wildshape into might also be less than effective.

Well, it wasn't intentional, and I didn't even realize the "problem" until around 7th level when I tried a random encounter of Spriggans (which get racial sneak attack). Just because it is Viking-themed doesn't mean I forced my PC's to be barbarians. I have a Barb//Beguiler, a Wiz//Rogue, and a Sorcerer//Druid. It just happened that way.

Just an interesting quirk that is more likely to happen in a gestalt game than a normal one, with more chances to take Barb or Rogue.


Just a little general advice for making effective gestalt characters; you should shoot for the following:
At least a d8 Hit Die.
At least 4 skill points per level.
At least Medium BAB.
At least two good saves.

It helps if one side's abilities are active, while the other side's abilities are passive. Dual casters have lots of endurance, but they can still only cast one spell per round, for example (excepting swift spells, of course).

If one wanted to wander into the realm of monstrous PC's, a Spriggan Fey/Warhulk//Barbarian/Ranger build would be good. You have a racial ability to morph between Small and Large. Become Bruce Banner; go large, lose all your mental skills, and smash crap. Go small to get "smart" again.

[Korivan]

Favorite is Factotum17/cleric of mystra3 gestalted with wiz5/metaphysical spellshaper3/incantrix10/arcmage5. For truly powerful metamagic.

Second is Barbarian20 gestalted with fighter5/frenzied beserker 7/warhulk8. With leap attack can dish out truly nice amounts of damage.

Third, tri-kreen Duskblade20 gestalted with fighter to make multi weapon fighting much better. That and double bladed longswords with speed enchantment on each one.

Theres more, but those are some of my more memorable ones.

[eggs]

If one wanted to wander into the realm of monstrous PC's, a Spriggan Fey/Warhulk//Barbarian/Ranger build would be good.
Cool idea.

Now I'm having a hard time shaking the idea of mixing the Spriggan Warhulk idea with a Psychic Warrior chain fighter and sprinkling in some of the Other Killer Gnome's feat combos - go from a gargantuan Thicket of Bladesing AoO-based bruiser to a diminutive TWF Iron Guard's Glare debuffer as circumstances demand. Psionic action economy benders could probably make it viable if the Wisdom found a good patch in PsyWar manifesting.

[Andreaz]

(All of the next statements assume 3.PF rules)
I am particularly fond of Warblade-or-Crusader 20 // Wiz/JPM/Abj Champ.
Along similar lines, Warblade-or-Crusader//Psion is great.

Going into "fix houserules", Gunslinger Wizard is great fun for gishes (fix: use standard school specialization, with the chosen spec being "guns")

Going into homebrew classes, Soheis and Warlords (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10640937) and JedEsper Knights (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169532) are good companions to full casters of all sorts.
Imagine an esper druid. Lightsaber Claws.

[Gnaeus]

Just a little general advice for making effective gestalt characters; you should shoot for the following:
At least a d8 Hit Die.
At least 4 skill points per level.
At least Medium BAB.
At least two good saves.

It helps if one side's abilities are active, while the other side's abilities are passive. Dual casters have lots of endurance, but they can still only cast one spell per round, for example (excepting swift spells, of course).

Decent advice.

My version of it would be as follows:



Just a little general advice for making effective gestalt characters; you should shoot for the following:
At least a d8 Hit Die.
At least 4 skill points per level.
At least Medium BAB.
At least Good Fort and Will Saves
At least one side should get 9th level powers, whether spells, psionics or maneuvers.

It helps if one side's abilities are active, while the other side's abilities are passive. Dual casters have lots of endurance, but they can still only cast one spell per round, for example (excepting swift spells, of course).

[Andreaz]

That's the funny thing...Reflex is just as important as the others, considering it serves the greatest role of all three in avoiding damage. It just happens to be spread out rather than spiked.

[danzibr]

Unarmed Swordsage + Fighter. A nice mid powered combo. Not too uncomplimentary, either. The fighter's increased hp, bab, forttude save, and bonus feats all complement the swordsage quite nicely. And the Swordsage has actual class features. Unarmed because Street Fighter. SHORYUKEN!

I'm also looking to pull off a Warblade // Caster / Swiftblade 9 / Caster, ad take Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Full Blade. Because Final Fantasy. And Omnislash.

I've only done one, it was in a low-op setting, however.

Druid//Barbarian

Cast Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance on yourself. Rage with the extended rage feat. No shapeshift needed.

Warforged - Warblade / Warforged Juggernaut // Psion

If high level - Warforged charger warblade / warforged juggernaut // psion (the int hit hurts, but the look on their faces is priceless)

energy ray for a ranged attack, immune to everything, self buffing, armored tank. Expansion to be learned with a feat.
I really like all of these.

I sort of get on different kicks. Right now I'm into Clerics and Psions (particularly going Constructor) and Swordsages. Cleric, well, doesn't have to pair with anything to do well. Cleric//Crusader would be cool for flavor, I guess.

I also like the War Hulk as some have mentioned. If it's allowed, take some racial progression on one side with high Str then get into War Hulk as quickly as possible, then on the other side go some sort of Barb route or Warblade.

[Metahuman1]

Other options/variations on a theme for Dread Necromancer include Wilder/Thrallherd for an even more ginormous army, Cleric/Walker in the Waste for the yummy Dry Lich template, or Paladin/Crusader/RKV. For monsters, Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) are awesome: 7 RHD (fey), +2 LA, Charisma to AC and saves (that stack with Paladin if you want), +6 Charisma, and 7th level bard casting. Throw on gravetouched ghoul if you want, or stick with Tomb Tainted Soul, since neither Necropolitan nor Lich can be applied to fey.

Hmmm, I wonder if that Gloura would qualify for Arcane Duelst as is? Cause throwing that and a Witch Hunter dip on top of a Paladin of Freedom dip and then a dip into battle dancer would make for some pretty impressive boosting to the AC and saving throw defenses.

[Gnaeus]

That's the funny thing...Reflex is just as important as the others, considering it serves the greatest role of all three in avoiding damage. It just happens to be spread out rather than spiked.

Disagree. In most cases, failing a reflex save means taking an extra 10-20 damage. Since the Gestalt char has at least d8s, this is rarely fatal. Failing a will or fort save, otoh, is likely to remove you from a battle entirely, may kill you outright, or even have you working for the other team. Having all 3 good saves helps. But Fort and Will are the ones you need.

[Andreaz]

Disagree. In most cases, failing a reflex save means taking an extra 10-20 damage. Since the Gestalt char has at least d8s, this is rarely fatal. Failing a will or fort save, otoh, is likely to remove you from a battle entirely, may kill you outright, or even have you working for the other team. Having all 3 good saves helps. But Fort and Will are the ones you need.Thus why I said "spread our rather than spiked". Failing reflex is very unlikely to be "felt" at any given round, but over the course of an adventure it spares you the most resources of all saves.

[Eldan]

I've had quite some fun with Warlock/Binder and Binder/Crusader, myself. The second is a very effective melee combatant with the right vestiges, but can also take on other roles.

Oh, and for fun I once made a Warforged Warlock/Warblade.

[Gnaeus]

Thus why I said "spread our rather than spiked". Failing reflex is very unlikely to be "felt" at any given round, but over the course of an adventure it spares you the most resources of all saves.

If by resources, you mean charges on your CLW wand, I agree. If by resources you mean scrolls of flesh to stone or raise deads on yourself or your colleague who died when you got dominated into stabbing him in the back or while you were running away Panicked, I disagree strongly. Those cost a lot more, if you are in a position to use them at all.

[Andreaz]

Ugh, stop arguing with me as if I said Fort and Will were less important, I never said that.

[hymer]

Sadly, I've never gestalted as a player. I'd like to try a Favoured Soul // Paladin, just to make a saving throws machine, and a paladin that could actually cut enemies down in melee.

I'm really rather partial to druids, so a druid combined with just about anything could be fun, if you have the stats for it. Scout and a form with pounce seems attractive. And you'd have the skill points and the list to do any normal druid shtick you want, and also be the party skill monkey. Or the same thing with a rogue, though you'd have to rely more on being able to stealth into position.

[Jeff the Green]

Hmmm, I wonder if that Gloura would qualify for Arcane Duelst as is? Cause throwing that and a Witch Hunter dip on top of a Paladin of Freedom dip and then a dip into battle dancer would make for some pretty impressive boosting to the AC and saving throw defenses.

You'd probably be better off with a cleric/prestige paladin with Ascetic Mage for that. The build would look something like Gloura 9/Arcane Duelist 1/Monk 1/Arcane PrC x//Cleric 6/Prestige Paladin 2/Witch Hunter 1/Divine PrC x. It's more feat intensive (Dodge, Mobility, Mounted Combat, and Ascetic Mage rather than just the first two), but you have much better casting and it comes online faster. You could also replace a level of the Arcane PrC with a level of Marshal for Charisma to Initiative. That would give you 3 x Charisma to AC, 3 x Charisma to saves, and Charisma to Initiative and Dex-based skills. And a Charisma of 24 before items or increases from levels. Grab Charismatic priest for Charisma-based bonus spells and you're golden. (If you can be a Prestige Paladin of Tyranny, you could even go WiTW with your remaining levels on the cleric side for undead traits, +2 Charisma, multiple phylacteries, and Charisma to HP, though you'd lose 9th level spells.)

Granted, you don't have a ton of offensive power, but very little is going to hurt you.

[Gnaeus]

Ugh, stop arguing with me as if I said Fort and Will were less important, I never said that.

No, you said:


That's the funny thing...Reflex is just as important as the others, considering it serves the greatest role of all three in avoiding damage.

And my point is avoiding 1/2 damage from a blasty effect is usually much less important than avoiding a save or lose/die.

[Metahuman1]

You'd probably be better off with a cleric/prestige paladin with Ascetic Mage for that. The build would look something like Gloura 9/Arcane Duelist 1/Monk 1/Arcane PrC x//Cleric 6/Prestige Paladin 2/Witch Hunter 1/Divine PrC x. It's more feat intensive (Dodge, Mobility, Mounted Combat, and Ascetic Mage rather than just the first two), but you have much better casting and it comes online faster. You could also replace a level of the Arcane PrC with a level of Marshal for Charisma to Initiative. That would give you 3 x Charisma to AC, 3 x Charisma to saves, and Charisma to Initiative and Dex-based skills. And a Charisma of 24 before items or increases from levels. Grab Charismatic priest for Charisma-based bonus spells and you're golden. (If you can be a Prestige Paladin of Tyranny, you could even go WiTW with your remaining levels on the cleric side for undead traits, +2 Charisma, multiple phylacteries, and Charisma to HP, though you'd lose 9th level spells.)

Granted, you don't have a ton of offensive power, but very little is going to hurt you.

Well, my thinking would have been more like trying to stick most if not all of the Cha to X things on one side of the build and stick something else that either benefits form Cha or operates independent of it on the other side to be the active side of the gestalt, while the Cha stacking to the defenses was the passive side.

for example, Sorcerer, or Artificer, or Favored Soul, or Bard would all synergize as straight/almost straight class on one side, with the Gloura and the assortment of dips on the other giving nice things to do with Cha.

Or conversely, Dragon Fire Adept, Crusader, Warblade, Binder, Totemist, cleric or Druid all get nice things out of this deal. Most of them either

Only really need one stat to funtion on there own,
Synergize with the Cha boosting,
Or have a couple of stats they can afford to put less emphasis on. (Example: Warblade, Int is nice but not strictly necessary. The cleric only needs some Wis for his spell casting if he sticks to spells that don't offer saves or to self buffs, same with the Druid. The DFA and Crusader get some benefit themselves from it, but can funtion just fine on Con and in the crusaders case, Str with maybe a splash of dex. The totemist only needs Con and a splash of Str or dex for melee.

[UserShadow7989]

I am amused at the fact that by far the most effective combo you listed was stuck in the "infeasible" section. While not quite as awesome as T1 caster//factotum, it is an excellent damage build (Pounce + sneak attack with a form with lots of weapons), with good defenses (all good saves with Wis and Con focus, evasion, uncanny dodge, and druid immunities), and good utility (good skill points, awesome mental stats, scouting forms, trapfinding, and of course T1 casting).

Yeah, tbh I had about 5 minutes to put together the second half of that post before heading out, so I threw everything that came to mind there (I think that was originally Ranger//Rogue instead of Druid//Rogue, too). Still, I hadn't realized it would be that good- though having a T1 caster as half of it should have tipped me off.

I have to agree that one of the best parts of Gestalt is that a lot of classes that are lacking in some meaningful categories tend to be very good choices for your second class- Fighters grant a good Fort save, d10 hit dice, and a lot of bonus feats, Monks have lots of little tricks that lack synergy with each other and three good saves...

Classes that are hyper-focused on one thing also make good secondary choices, as your first class covers situations that the other wouldn't work in while granting you the full benefits of the second whenever that situation comes up (Barbarians are fantastic in combat but little else, so grabbing a class with lots of non-battle related tricks and skills and whatnot to pair it with helps).

[Jeff the Green]

Well, my thinking would have been more like trying to stick most if not all of the Cha to X things on one side of the build and stick something else that either benefits form Cha or operates independent of it on the other side to be the active side of the gestalt, while the Cha stacking to the defenses was the passive side.

Ah. I keep forgetting that the rule that you must qualify for PrCs using just the class abilities from that side is a houserule. In that case, I'd go with Gloura 9/Arcane Duelist 1/Unarmed Swordsage 2/Paladin of X 2/Witch Hunter 1/Battle Dancer 1/Marshal 1/Swordsage x on the one side (4 x Charisma to AC!). If this character can be evil, go Paladin of Slaughter, replace the level of Witch Hunter with three levels of Eldeen Ranger (Greensingers), and then go Sorcerer 6/Walker in the Waste 10/Arcane PrC x on the other side. (If generic classes are on the table, make that Spellcaster 1/WitW 10/Arcane PrC x)

[Eldan]

I forgot one: Binder/Chameleon//Factotum. Change everything about your character several times a day!

[Andreaz]

No, you said:



And my point is avoiding 1/2 damage from a blasty effect is usually much less important than avoiding a save or lose/die.And then I explained that happens over the course of the game instead of all at once. These things are not mutually exclusive.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

1) Mr. Eeeevil. Dread Necro7/Dread Witch5/Dread Necro8//Unarmed Swordsage2/Paladin of Tyrrany3/Hexblade7/Suel Archanamach3/Abjurant Champion5

19 BAB at level 20, charisma to saves (twice against spells), charisma to AC (Ascetic Mage), Charisma for all his casting. He's got a solid array of buffs from SA + AbChamp, and a whole lot of scary from Dread Necro. Combo NaenHoon or Alternate Spell Source/Southern Magician + DMM: Persist with Aura of Terror to boost the already existent fear aura. Speaking of auras... Aura of Despair gives penalties to saves, Hexblade's Greater Curse stacks more penalties to saves, and you're effectively SAD with your casting so you can go ahead and boost Charisma to heck and back.

Switch out Swordsage for Crusader and move it up to after hexblade and paladin of tyranny to pick up Thicket of Blades.

Any foe who gets within 20' of you is simultaneously Panicked, has his saves dropped, and is tripped and probably dead. Without any active actions on your part (other than AoO).

[Gnaeus]

And then I explained that happens over the course of the game instead of all at once. These things are not mutually exclusive.

And then I pointed out that you were wrong because the cost of fixing hp damage is much less than the cost of fixing conditions like petrified or dead, assuming that they can be fixed at all because everyone may be petrified or dead. Unless you have some new argument, you can stop repeating ground that we already covered.

A single scroll of restoration fixes energy drained or level loss in 1 fight. 800 gp.
A wand of cure light wounds fixes 15 failed saves from 10 HD fireballs
750 gp.

And of course they aren't mutually exclusive. I never said dont get a good Ref save. I said that it is much more important to have good fort and will.

[Elvenoutrider]

Artificer/fighter to make iron man. You get so many feats

wizard/sorceror(or warmage) is fun as you will pretty much always have just the right spell for your current encounter.

artificer/ninja(or rogue) for the infiltrater with just the right tool for the job

paladin/sorcerer can be fun with the save bonus from your charisma mod

fighter/warshaper//wizard/master transmogrifist - oh the possibilities