Best way to do group/side initiative?

[Ozreth]

So my current group is floating around 10 people right now and that dosen't look to be changing any time soon. Initiative has been a pain and I'm looking to try group/side initiative. What are the best ways to go about this in 3e?

d6, d10, d20?
How to still incorporate dex modifiers and/or initiative feats?
Should it be re-rolled each round?

Any suggestions help. Thanks!

[Absol197]

There are several ways you can do this.

1. You can use the highest initiative modifier per side, and then each side goes in the order of their initiative modifiers; basically, you're relying on the quickest of your buddies to alert you to the battle;

2. You can use the lowest initiative modifier per side, with each person in the group going in order of highest to lowest modifier; you have to wait for your entire team to get ready before you can mount a serious offense;

3. You can use the average initiative modifier per group. This one could be a bit more difficult, because while you could do that with your party pretty easily, you may not want to do all that math for a 10+ character NPC group every battle, especially if your battles aren't often exactly planned.

4. You could have everyone roll initiative, and then whichever group gets the highest bonus, that group goes first. It's similar to the first one, what with the group gaining a bonus for the highest modifier, but sometimes the low modifier characters might be able to help out. Lots of rolling in the beginning, but then things are fairly ordered afterwards.

As for rolling every round, I would refrain. Especially if it's only two groups, then with similar modifiers, the battle might end up with both sides taking 2 turns at once, and then waiting 2 turns, then taking 2...you get the idea!

Hope this helps!


~Phoenix~

[Ozreth]

Hey thanks!

I'm thinking number 4, but when you say "which ever group gets the highest bonus" what exactly do you mean?

Also, good point on re-rolling each round. I won't do that : )

What do you think about one person rolling a die for each side. Baddies roll one die and the goodies roll one die. Similar to OD&D/AD&D I suppose. When a side goes they all kinda just go at once, the players can just organize however they want to and go in whichever order they decide. Then the baddies go and do the same thing?

[killem2]

These are fold up tent like things, they are however glued at the bottom and weighed down so they don't tip over. There are no stats on them, i keep those stats on me.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/4d606955.jpg (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/17f54d27.jpg)

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/4498ac28.jpg (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/62e71606.jpg)

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/119382d5.jpg (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/3ea38ba8.jpg)

This is a variant of the tent idea that people usually do.

Now I have a group of 9 characters.

I merge all animal companions with the owners, but respect the free actions available to command them. It may seem a bit unfair for faster animal companions that have higher dex, but some sacrifices have to be made.


The baddies are always one group, that I give curves to the initiatives based on each creatures initiative score. Depends on what the make up is. if it is different creature types such as say, some hounds with say some grimlocks, with some zombies on another part of the field I will separate those. If more come into play mid combat I will plop them at the end of the chain.

Its not perfect but it is faster than trying to manage scores for each person/thing in combat.

I did bring up the one die each and my players didn't really like that. Which I'm ok with that, it would take away from them. Enemies don't have feeling to worry about :).

[Ozreth]

These are fold up tent like things, they are however glued at the bottom and weighed down so they don't tip over. There are no stats on them, i keep those stats on me.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/4d606955.jpg (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/17f54d27.jpg)

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/4498ac28.jpg (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/62e71606.jpg)

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/119382d5.jpg (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/ica171/Brandon%20Misc/3ea38ba8.jpg)

This is a variant of the tent idea that people usually do.

Now I have a group of 9 characters.

I merge all animal companions with the owners, but respect the free actions available to command them. It may seem a bit unfair for faster animal companions that have higher dex, but some sacrifices have to be made.


The baddies are always one group, that I give curves to the initiatives based on each creatures initiative score. Depends on what the make up is. if it is different creature types such as say, some hounds with say some grimlocks, with some zombies on another part of the field I will separate those. If more come into play mid combat I will plop them at the end of the chain.

Its not perfect but it is faster than trying to manage scores for each person/thing in combat.

I did bring up the one die each and my players didn't really like that. Which I'm ok with that, it would take away from them. Enemies don't have feeling to worry about :).

That's pretty cool! I fold pieces of notecards in half with characters names on them and drape them over my DM screen so everybody knows which order they are in.

Soo, with your method what do you do as far as rolling? One die roll per side?

[killem2]

That's pretty cool! I fold pieces of notecards in half with characters names on them and drape them over my DM screen so everybody knows which order they are in.

Soo, with your method what do you do as far as rolling? One die roll per side?

Depends.

Lets say the baddies are made up of:

Joey, the evil cleric
Bobby the evil wizard
Patrick, the evil fighter starfish

and some mooks, say 4x bug bears on each side of the three main baddies.

I would roll once for the bugbears, and once for each of the NPCs. NPCS I feel despite the time it might take, to roll their own.

Now lets say it was just a room with say 5x zombies, and maybe a shadow. I'll roll them all together. They aren't personable enough for me to care about their individual status.

The players ALWAYS roll for their characters, companions are included with their roll however. 9/10, a master is not going to just send his companion in, while he or she has to wait 8 passes before it gets to them. It just isn't tactical.

The tripod picture things are a blessing. I can roll first for the bad guys. Put them down first with some spaces. Then I go around the table:

ME: AUST?

AUST: 22

ME: ROSELENNA

ROSELENNA: 13

and just drop them in order very quickly.

It's faster than any things else.

[Ozreth]

I guess the thing is I'm not looking to have individual order or turs. Just group turns. One group goes all at once and then the other goes all at once. Or at least, I want to give it a shot, I'm just trying to figure out a way to incorporate their dex/feats into a single die roll per side without being too cumbersome.

[killem2]

I guess if I was going to break it down, here is what I would do.

I would make a scaling Initiative bonus.

Take the total initiative bonus of the group, and see where it lands on the scale.


1-3 +0

4-6 + 1

7-9 + 2

10-12 +3

13-15 + 4

16-18 + 5

19+ = 6 + 1/every 5 points of initiative bonus.

[Ozreth]

Ok how about:

Each side rolls a d10 and adds the total of their sides initiative modifiers. Highest side goes first.

Everybody acts together, discussing what they want to do and just doing it.

[killem2]

Ok how about:

Each side rolls a d10 and adds the total of their sides initiative modifiers. Highest side goes first.

Everybody acts together, discussing what they want to do and just doing it.

That can work, just be mindful if you start fighting large parties, because they will eventually start to out rank your pcs.

[TuggyNE]

That can work, just be mindful if you start fighting large parties, because they will eventually start to out rank your pcs.

Subtract a certain factor from each of the initiative modifiers. For example, add a side's initiative modifiers together, then subtract the number of members, or perhaps double the number. It reasonably penalizes large groups, as coordination becomes non-trivial.