Domination and Protection VS Evil

[Stabbald]

I need some clarification on how these two spells interact.

1) If a character is dominated and the has PvE cast on them, do they continue following the last command given to them to the best of their ability? The spell stops control from being exerted, but says nothing about commands already given.

2) Should someone want to use PvE on the dominated person, do they need to roll a touch attack, and does the dominated character roll a Will save?

3) How long do you need to interact with a dominated person to get a Sense Motive? And do you need to say that you are actively watching them for odd behavior, or do they just roll it?

Hopefully someone knows how these things work, because I'm extremely confused.

[PersonMan]

I'd say 1 is entirely up to the DM.

As for 2, it'd depend on the commands given. Dominated creatures do what they're told and nothing else, so if I Dominate someone and tell them to wash the floor, they won't care if someone shows up and starts poking them. As for the Will save part...I'm not sure, but I'd say they do unless ordered to fail.

Well, I think the fluff on Dominate Person is that they basically turn into puppets controlled by magic, so I think it'd be an obvious sort of thing. If you knew them, you'd get a roll almost immediately, but otherwise it might take a brief exchange. Sense Motive is something I'd roll as a reaction at all times, including this one. You just notice that Bob is messed up, even if you aren't looking for something when you talk to him.

[Stabbald]

I'd say 1 is entirely up to the DM.

I'm the DM.

Personally I side slightly on the side of the domination effect continuing, though with no further commands being given. The way I see it, the effect of Protection versus Evil is effectively a force field, which cuts off the connection to the original caster. This is supported by the way the spell interacts with summoned creatures.

Really, it comes down to whether or not a constant connection is required for a character to continue following the initial order.

What happens if the caster dies after dominating the character?

In the case that I'm dealing with, it's a spell-like effect. Does this change anything?



As for 2, it'd depend on the commands given. Dominated creatures do what they're told and nothing else, so if I Dominate someone and tell them to wash the floor, they won't care if someone shows up and starts poking them. As for the Will save part...I'm not sure, but I'd say they do unless ordered to fail.


This sounds reasonable.



Well, I think the fluff on Dominate Person is that they basically turn into puppets controlled by magic, so I think it'd be an obvious sort of thing. If you knew them, you'd get a roll almost immediately, but otherwise it might take a brief exchange. Sense Motive is something I'd roll as a reaction at all times, including this one. You just notice that Bob is messed up, even if you aren't looking for something when you talk to him.

I also agree with this.

[PersonMan]

I'm the DM.

Personally I side slightly on the side of the domination effect continuing, though with no further commands being given. The way I see it, the effect of Protection versus Evil is effectively a force field, which cuts off the connection to the original caster. This is supported by the way the spell interacts with summoned creatures.

Really, it comes down to whether or not a constant connection is required for a character to continue following the initial order.

What happens if the caster dies after dominating the character?

In the case that I'm dealing with, it's a spell-like effect. Does this change anything?

I'd say it depends in part on how you have the spell work.

You could decide that spells such as Dominate Person are "planted" in the target, and that all of the necessary processes are carried out by the spell energy in the target.

Another way of describing it is that the spell is 'split' between the caster and target. The caster's end gives them the authority over the receiving end, which carries out the commands.

In either case you could justify Protection from Evil as suppressing the effect for the duration. In the first, it isolates the magic controlling the target. In the second, it seals off the mind from the link.

[Diarmuid]

Protection from evil or a similar spell can prevent you from exercising control or using the telepathic link while the subject is so warded, but such an effect neither prevents the establishment of domination nor dispels it.

The SRD would seem to say that you cannot control the creature. It doesnt specify that you can only not exercise new control, it globally prevents exercising control so I would say that while the PvE is in effect, the target is able to act normally until the end of the PvE, at which point the Dominate would take effect again (barring some kind of other prevention being in place).

As for whether the dominated person would resist the spell...that would likely depend on if the dominator had specifically told the dominatee to do so.

If it's one of his companions and the dominator hasnt said "treat me as your only ally" or "your friends are now your enemies" then I wouldnt think they would resist the spell (assuming they wouldnt have before the domination).

[Unusual Muse]

My understanding is that PvE suspends the spell effect; thus, while the PvE is in effect there is effectively no Domination effect. When the PvE ends, the Domination effect resumes.

[Psyren]

1) The domination is effectively "switched off" until the protection expires. This applies to both new and existing commands.

2) The answer to both is - only if the caster is treated as an enemy by the slave.

3) I would rule that it takes a minute of passive observation, or immediately if they interact with you strangely in some way.

[Slipperychicken]

Protection against Evil supresses all mental control. It completely overrides the Domination, including all standing orders, allowing the target to act freely for the duration. But the Dominated character will resume with out her latest orders (even ones issued during the Protection) if the Protection from Evil wears off while the Domination still lasts.

[Toliudar]

1) +1 for the control being switched off and the person regaining their senses.

[Slipperychicken]

1) +1 for the control being switched off and the person regaining their senses.

They don't lose their senses. The target of a Dominate spell can see, hear, feel, taste, and remember everything. It's like a living nightmare, where you see yourself doing the worst things, saying the worst things... but have no control. Your body is the puppet of some villainous enchanter, and you see every moment of your service to him.

[Kelb_Panthera]

They don't lose their senses. The target of a Dominate spell can see, hear, feel, taste, and remember everything. It's like a living nightmare, where you see yourself doing the worst things, saying the worst things... but have no control. Your body is the puppet of some villainous enchanter, and you see every moment of your service to him.

By my reading of the spell description, how much or how little control you have over your own actions is determined by how specific the dominating caster is in his commands. If he forgets to instruct you to conceal the fact you're dominated you can just tell your party cleric, "hey, I'm under a domination effect. A little help?"

The thing of it is that you can't simply ignore the orders you receive. A good (read; skilled, not necessarily holy) enchanter will instruct a dominated creature to act normally, but to conceal the fact he's dominated until further instruction. On a personal note, I'd find that to be much more horrifying than to actually be given an instruction I can't resist. Just going about my business knowing that at any time this other person can make me his meat-puppet... *shiver*

[Twilightwyrm]

1) Because the spell says that the spell wards the creature from mental control, I would say that the creature would not have to follow the last command given. The operative word is control here. Because the spell blocks the original spell, whose power is enforcing the command, there is no reason the creature should still be following said command absent their own preference to do so. The spell is not of instantaneous duration, it does not permanently alter the creature's mental makeup to have it undertake a command as soon as one is given, it is the power of the spell that is enforcing the command. If the power of the spell is blocked...
2) So this is a tricky one. First, yes it would require a touch attack, since the spell requires one regardless of friend of foe. But for the second part, it isn't clear in the case of domination. In the case of suggestion or charm, I would say they would roll will without question, since the magic is essentially tricking a creature's will into thinking the suggestions of the spell are their own. Domination, however, supplants said will meaning it could go one of two ways: either the subject make no effort to resist the spell if not ordered to do otherwise, in the same way that a zombie will not put itself out if set on fire unless commanded otherwise, or because the subject has not been ordered to let the spell through, they would automatically resist it.
3) The SRD says activity attempting to Sense Motive takes 1 minute, so if you want a good baseline, assume one minute of observation or interaction warrants a Sense Motive check. This way someone with a high sense motive doesn't go around pinging every enchanted person they pass on the street as enchanted the moment they pass them, but means that instantly recognizable signs such as odd movement, weird speech patterns, etc. are quickly discernible. You could set different circumstances for combat, by, for example, folding this in with any attempt by the characters to assess the opponent's strength (see Complete Adventurer).

[ericgrau]

1. The effect is suppressed for the duration of PvE, not the command stream. "The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect." So they would break free and do whatever they want, not follow the last command. Frequently the one giving the commands isn't around to give more commands anyway. So not only is the interpretation of following the last commands wrong, it's dangerous in that it makes PvE entirely useless. What this does is tells your players, "Don't try to do anything clever, I'll only negate it anyway."
2. The actions taken by the dominated person are very limited, so generally a dominated character would not dodge or resist. However dominated people are frequently used in combat and in this case they would dodge all enemy spells and attempt to save against all enemy spells. A good way to get around this would be magic circle against evil. EDIT@V: Or there's that too. Depends how the dominator words his orders.
3. The rules say the reason the sense motive DC is so easy is because the range of action of the dominated character is so limited. So as soon as you see the dominated character acting it would be pretty obvious that he's an automoton and that's when you roll the easy check. The suggested time of at least 1 minute is a pretty good ballpark for this if the dominated person doesn't do anything special. Like walk right past a lover with a straight face, looking ahead and intent on doing something else.

[2xMachina]

Protection from Evil is called out as harmless, so generally, the default is autopassed unless told to resist all harmless spells or only spells ID'ed as Protection from X

[Slipperychicken]

For determining whether someone's under magical influence or control, the best real world analogue is intoxication. You might not notice immediately that someone's drunk (or high), and they may even slip past without your noticing, but you'll figure it out after observing them for any notable period of time.

Charmed is like being buzzed. The person acts more or less normally, he might seem a little off, but well within behavioral norms and he can easily pass for sober if he tries (DC 25).

Domination is like being drunk. You'll notice pretty quickly, as the persons acts much differently than normal, and his entire personality might seem to change (DC 15).

[The Glyphstone]

For determining whether someone's under magical influence or control, the best real world analogue is intoxication. You might not notice immediately that someone's drunk (or high), and they may even slip past without your noticing, but you'll figure it out after observing them for any notable period of time.

Charmed is like being buzzed. The person acts more or less normally, he might seem a little off, but well within behavioral norms and he can easily pass for sober if he tries (DC 25).

Domination is like being drunk. You'll notice pretty quickly, as the persons acts much differently than normal, and his entire personality might seem to change (DC 15).

"I lurrve you, man! You're my beshtesht friend!"
"Then why are you trying to stab me in the face?"