How does a totemist get 16 attacks?

[AdamT]

I'm not seeing it. Read through the handbook and just cant fit it together, so could someone explain to me how a totemist can get 16 ranged attacks at highest attack bonus?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Sixteen ranged attacks? All at full accuracy?

Well, let's go with sixteen melee attacks. That's easy enough to convert to ranged.

Now, is it pure totemist? Warshaper? Any particular race? Whoever told you this might be misreading how Skarn spines work.

[Lateral]

Sixteen ranged attacks? Probably from gratuitous use of Manticore Belt, but I'm kind of having trouble figuring out how one could invest sixteen essentia into a single soulmeld.

[AdamT]

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=583

Last sentence of the 3rd paragraph is where its stated, but no description of how.

So whats the highest amount of attacks you can get from a totemist if that is not correct? Highest in ranged and highest in melee?

[The Glyphstone]

You can fling 6 Manticore spines in one action at level 20, but I can't figure out 16. 6x2=12 if you've got a Belt of Battle. Other ways to get extra standards?

[AdamT]

A 20th level totemist could have up to 6 essentia in the manticore belt. Expanded soulmeld capacity increases that to 7 essentia. I'm guessing there is another way that I'm not seeing to put an 8th essentia into the belt and then a way to get a second standard action?

[AdamT]

Ok, belt of battle gets us up to 14. Still missing one more essentia into the belt.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Splitting Necklace of Natural Attacks?

[Deophaun]

Manticore belt on Totem bind.

At 20th level: Base 4 essentia into Totem, +2 capacity from class features, +1 capacity from expanded soulmeld capacity. 7 total essentia investment.

Level 20 class feature: totem embodiment effectively doubles your essentia capacity for your totem. Lasts a number of minutes equal to your Con modifier. 14 total capacity.

Belt of Battle: 1 extra standard action.

Result: 28 ranged attacks at full BAB once a day.

[Telonius]

Incarnum Focus item (waist), maybe?

[Deophaun]

Incarnum Focus item (waist), maybe?

It would have to be incarnum focus item (totem), which doesn't exist

Edit: Actually, no, this works. The incarnum focus adds to the capacity of the soulmeld, not the chakra. So, as long as you could also bind your maticore belt to your waist as well as your totem (double totem bind at level 11), you can get its capacity up to 8.

[AdamT]

That is different than what the handbook says, but quite a bit better! And it is activate the level 20 ability 1/day, duration is 1 minute per con bonus. So it would easily be a full fight you would have 28*(d6+1/2 str).

Too bad it does not come online until 20th level =(

With belt of battle even at lower levels you'd have semi decent blasting out of that.

[Lateral]

Level 20 class feature: totem embodiment effectively doubles your essentia capacity for your totem. Lasts a number of minutes equal to your Con modifier. 14 total capacity.

Right, Totem Embodiment. Of course. They were probably assuming that, and just miscalculated.

[Rubik]

Use your soulmelds to get a ton of melee attacks and then go bloodstorm blade?

[Telonius]

It would have to be incarnum focus item (totem), which doesn't exist.

I am a bit new to Incarnum, but sounds a little murky to me. From what I'm reading, Soulmelds bound to the Totem chakra don't actually occupy the Totem chakra (in the case of Manticore Belt, it would occupy the waist). So wouldn't something something making the Waist chakra have a bigger capacity, also (indirectly) affect Waist-occupying soulmelds that are bound to the Totem?

[AdamT]

I am a bit new to Incarnum, but sounds a little murky to me. From what I'm reading, Soulmelds bound to the Totem chakra don't actually occupy the Totem chakra (in the case of Manticore Belt, it would occupy the waist). So wouldn't something something making the Waist chakra have a bigger capacity, also (indirectly) affect Waist-occupying soulmelds that are bound to the Totem?

I was thinking that, but we need belt of battle to pull this off. Of course, I think that explains where the original author got his numbers from.

He was useing incarnum focus (waist) which increases the essentia by one. So we have 4 base, two for totemist, 1 for incarnum focus, and one from expanded soulmeld capacity. He's useing totem chakra bind (double bind) to bind the manticore belt to both waist and totem chakra. That gives him 8 essentia, and then totem embodiement to double it for 16 attacks.

I like 7 attacks and belt of battle more =)
Maybe get your gm to let you have a ring of battle instead of belt of battle... or combine belt of battle with the incarnum focus. That would net you 32 attacks.

[Zombulian]

I'm not seeing it. Read through the handbook and just cant fit it together, so could someone explain to me how a totemist can get 16 ranged attacks at highest attack bonus?

Manticore belt with expanded essentia capacity feat and the totemist class ability giving extra capacity to totem chakra. At lvl 20 that's 8 spines on the manticore belt. Extra double chakra so you can wear a belt of battle, there's 16. THEN pick up an amulet of nat attacks and put the splitting enhancement on it. That's 32 ranged attacks.

[Deophaun]

THEN pick up an amulet of nat attacks and put the splitting enhancement on it. That's 32 ranged attacks.
As the spines from the manitcore belt totem bind are not natural attacks, how does that work?

[Zombulian]

As the spines from the manitcore belt totem bind are not natural attacks, how does that work?

Ohh yea. Iunno I've seen a build similar to this before where they added it. I think if you do some *special* favors for your DM it could slide by.

[AdamT]

How would dips affect this? I dont know the rules on thayan gladiator, but it it supposed to be able to increase the number of natural attacks. Would a couple level dip get you to 2x natural attacks? You'd lose the level 20 capstone, but much earlier have more attacks?

Factotum would take 8 levels. You'd lose a lot to gain a couple extra actions a day.

Any other ideas to max out the number of attacks?

[Zombulian]

How would dips affect this? I dont know the rules on thayan gladiator, but it it supposed to be able to increase the number of natural attacks. Would a couple level dip get you to 2x natural attacks? You'd lose the level 20 capstone, but much earlier have more attacks?

Factotum would take 8 levels. You'd lose a lot to gain a couple extra actions a day.

Any other ideas to max out the number of attacks?

Font of Inspiration x10 plus 12 levels of totemist? SO MANY STANDARD ACTIONS. Essentia capacity is based off of HD, yeessss.

[Psyren]

How are you guys wearing Incarnum Focus (waist), Manticore Belt, and a Belt of Battle all at the same time?

[Snowbluff]

How are you guys wearing Incarnum Focus (waist), Manticore Belt, and a Belt of Battle all at the same time?

Split Chakra... wait... no um... be a creature with two Waists, like a Dvati, and Extra Item Space (if your DM lets a spine. The feat obviously and strangely racist towards creatures with multiple backs.)

[Rubik]

Split Chakra... wait... no um... be a creature with two Waists, like a Dvati, and Extra Item Space (if your DM lets a spine. The feat obviously and strangely racist towards creatures with multiple backs.)So a beast with four backs is better off than one with only two?

I like this daisy-train of thought.

[Dusk Eclipse]

How are you guys wearing Incarnum Focus (waist), Manticore Belt, and a Belt of Battle all at the same time?

Split Chakra an using a custom belt that combines Incarnum Focus (waist) and Belt of Battle?

[Snowbluff]

So a beast with four backs is better off than one with only two?

I like this daisy-train of thought.

I don't know. I've always been told the more backs a beast has, the better. For sneak attack reasons, obviously.

[Psyren]

Split Chakra an using a custom belt that combines Incarnum Focus (waist) and Belt of Battle?

If you're going to homebrew, you can get as many attacks as you want, so what's the point in that?

[nedz]

Well I can get 18 melle attacks with Dervish quite easily, though not all at full BAB
BAB 16+, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Haste, Slashing Fury for 9 and then A Thousand Cuts doubles that; only 1/day however.

[The Shadowmind]

If you're going to homebrew, you can get as many attacks as you want, so what's the point in that?

Combining the effects of two magic items are a part of the standard magic item creation rules in the DMG and in the MiC(pg 233)

[Snowbluff]

Well I can get 18 melle attacks with Dervish quite easily, though not all at full BAB
BAB 16+, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Haste, Slashing Fury for 9 and then A Thousand Cuts doubles that; only 1/day however.

Anyone up for some Time Stands Still?

[lunar2]

Afb right now, but couldn't you just do girallon arms, rapid strike feat chain, and blood storm blade?

[dextercorvia]

How are you guys wearing Incarnum Focus (waist), Manticore Belt, and a Belt of Battle all at the same time?

There is no problem with Manticore Belt and an Incarnum Focus (waist) item. After that, it is just combining the two items. Split Chakra isn't even required.

[Coidzor]

If you're going to homebrew, you can get as many attacks as you want, so what's the point in that?

Wait, I thought Incarnum Focus was a magic item and the magic item compendium explicitly took item stacking out of the quasi-homebrew territory that it had been in with the DMG rules. :smallconfused:

[Metahuman1]

Warforged Totemist 6/Warblade 14. Take Leadership at 6th lvl. At 9th, take that feat that let's you get a second Cohort one level below the main cohort, and at 12th take that feat that makes the cohort only 1 lvl below yours.

Make the first Cohort a DFI Bard with Optimized inspire courage and two levels of seeker of the song so that in one round he can get all the important music going.

Make the second Cohort an Artificer focused on crafting stuff as cheaply as possible. Have it make you an amulet of mighty fists with the speed property. Also have him craft an item of some nature so that he can just teleport you where you wish to go.



Now, you should focus on Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind Martial Maneuvers form Warblade. this will top out with Time stands still as a 9th lvl and Raging Mongoose as an 8th.

Focus soul melds on getting an extra natural attack. In this manner, between your own Warforged slam and soul melds, you can get 9 attacks. With the speed property, that's 18 attacks on a full attack. With Raging Mongoose in play, that's 45 attacks. Add Time stands still, and your at 90. At highest bonus. about 98 or so total. And don't worry about getting close enough to spend a full round attacking. That's why your artificer can teleport you. And damage is what the Bard is for.

[Zombulian]

Warforged Totemist 6/Warblade 14. Take Leadership at 6th lvl. At 9th, take that feat that let's you get a second Cohort one level below the main cohort, and at 12th take that feat that makes the cohort only 1 lvl below yours.

Make the first Cohort a DFI Bard with Optimized inspire courage and two levels of seeker of the song so that in one round he can get all the important music going.

Make the second Cohort an Artificer focused on crafting stuff as cheaply as possible. Have it make you an amulet of mighty fists with the speed property. Also have him craft an item of some nature so that he can just teleport you where you wish to go.



Now, you should focus on Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind Martial Maneuvers form Warblade. this will top out with Time stands still as a 9th lvl and Raging Mongoose as an 8th.

Focus soul melds on getting an extra natural attack. In this manner, between your own Warforged slam and soul melds, you can get 9 attacks. With the speed property, that's 18 attacks on a full attack. With Raging Mongoose in play, that's 45 attacks. Add Time stands still, and your at 90. At highest bonus. about 98 or so total. And don't worry about getting close enough to spend a full round attacking. That's why your artificer can teleport you. And damage is what the Bard is for.

Maybe instead of Bard cohort you get a Marshal/Squire of Legend cohort? Extra Standard actions. But that's only if you're still going with the Manticore Belt.

[The Glyphstone]

How much burst damage via Manticore belt can we get with a Totemist 12/Factotum 8?

[Zombulian]

How much burst damage via Manticore belt can we get with a Totemist 12/Factotum 8?

A lot. Especially with a DFA Bard and Deadeye Shot and Point Blank shot. Maybe try to get SA from a magic item in there?

[Psyren]

Wait, I thought Incarnum Focus was a magic item and the magic item compendium explicitly took item stacking out of the quasi-homebrew territory that it had been in with the DMG rules. :smallconfused:

Incarnum Focus is an item.
Belt of Battle is an item.
Incarnum Focus with Belt of Battle powers is homebrew.

[Tvtyrant]

Incarnum Focus is an item.
Belt of Battle is an item.
Incarnum Focus with Belt of Battle powers is homebrew.

I'm pretty sure there are exact rules for combining items in the MiC. That makes it not homebrew.

[Psyren]

I'm pretty sure there are exact rules for combining items in the MiC. That makes it not homebrew.

That's still just a guideline, not a rule. Again, if you allow guidelines like that, you can have as many attacks as you want, making this exercise meaningless.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Blood Wind is a 1st level spell in Spell Compendium, casts as a swift action. Makes the target's natural attacks strike from range for one round (think like in video game RPGs when the monster doesn't move up, just swipes its paw and you get slashed for damage).

So, get 16 natural attacks (you can get at least 3 from magic items I'm aware of alone; girallon's blessing spell, 3rd level, lasts 10 min/CL and gives you +2 arms and puts claws on all of them.... getting 16 probably isn't that hard....), then either dip a caster class or get a friend/cohort to cast Blood Wind on you, and buy a ton of 1st level pearls of power for 1000 gp a pop.

Is my guess for how it works.

[Tvtyrant]

That's still just a guideline, not a rule. Again, if you allow guidelines like that, you can have as many attacks as you want, making this exercise meaningless.

I think that is a slippery slope fallacy mate. Unarmed Swordsage is also following a guideline, and leads to no such madness.

[Getsugaru]

Incarnum Focus is an item.
Belt of Battle is an item.
Incarnum Focus with Belt of Battle powers is homebrew.

Actually, Incarnum Focus can also be a property, so you could technically have a Belt of Battle with the Incarnum Focus property like you could have a Great Axe with the Flaming Burst property.

More importantly, I long ago discovered the ultimate magic item for almost every class. It's thanks to this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm), specifically, the section listing the cost of a magic item with a continuous effect. It states that an item with a spell level of 5 and a caster level of 9 will cost 90,000 gp. Applying the same logic, an item with a power level of 5 and a manifester level of 9 would cost the same amount. Now, you must be curious as to why I specified a 5th level power and a manifester level of 9th; the reason for this is that to use a 5th level power requires a manifester level of 9th. But what power am I talking about, and why do I want it continuous? The answer is quite simple: Temporal Reiteration (http://therafim.wikidot.com/temporal-reiteration) (it was the best link I could find...).

Think about it. Just think about it. :smallamused:

[Snowbluff]

Actually, Incarnum Focus can also be a property, so you could technically have a Belt of Battle with the Incarnum Focus property like you could have a Great Axe with the Flaming Burst property.

More importantly, I long ago discovered the ultimate magic item for almost every class. It's thanks to this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm), specifically, the section listing the cost of a magic item with a continuous effect. It states that an item with a spell level of 5 and a caster level of 9 will cost 90,000 gp. Applying the same logic, an item with a power level of 5 and a manifester level of 9 would cost the same amount. Now, you must be curious as to why I specified a 5th level power and a manifester level of 9th; the reason for this is that to use a 5th level power requires a manifester level of 9th. But what power am I talking about, and why do I want it continuous? The answer is quite simple: Temporal Reiteration (http://therafim.wikidot.com/temporal-reiteration) (it was the best link I could find...).

Think about it. Just think about it. :smallamused:

I don't thinks as well as you think it does. Its duration is not in rounds/minutes/hours, so you can't make it continuous, IIRC.

The rules for making items based on spells are messed up, to say the least.