Binder advice

[Myrddin0001]

I am an advanced player and DM with nearly a decade of experience under my belt. I have researched, optimized and played nearly every class or class variant there is (slight hyperbole but close enough to accurate) with an exception being the Binder. The class intriges me greatly and I've been doing extensive research and reading all the handbooks, etc. I'd like to hear from those of you who have played one before and hear your advice/experience/likes/dislikes etc.

[Rejakor]

People often rate the Binder as more powerful or useful than it is, because it is very clear from looking at it that you have to optimize it, i.e. build the rest of your character around something, to get any use out of it - unoptimized, even once you get to level 7ish and with improved binder can bind stuff like Buer, you still suck huge amounts of eggs.

While a lot of vestiges can support a fighting style, none of them give you one, so you kind of need to invest feats in something useful in combat.


That said, I really like the fluff of the class and the mechanics (although you should be getting the mechanics much quicker... a binder could be twice the level of all the other characters in the game, and he'd only then get level appropriate abilities at the right time from vestiges) especially the different powers every day and once per 5 rounds at will stuff.

It actually works really well comboed with arcane magic (and not just because of anima mage), the fluff combines well.

[Dragon Mage]

Up until recently I was playing a Gnome Binder. He was not optimized but was still effective. Its all about using the right vestige for the right job. Out of all the characters I've ever played he was my favorite. He was insane and could do a bit of everything.

Our War blade got to use him an improvised weapon and Glim used the rest of the party for mounts. Now the War Blade uses Glim's skull as a bowl. Their is a long story behind that.

[eggs]

I haven't played many Binders, but from seeing other players at the table, I get the impression you'll really want to use your feats and racial choices to guarantee that you'll have something to do between Su ability recharges - especially before level 8.

That could mean investing resources into melee, intimidation, breath weapons, poisoning, or pretty much anything else; just don't expect generic feats like Improved Toughness/Initiative and d8 HD/.75 BA to keep the character feeling useful between special ability uses.

[Grollub]

are you playing 3.5 or Pathfinder? If you are playing Pathfinder, there is a book out that "updates" binder to Pathfinder, called Pact Magic Unbound.

As for optimizing.... if you are using the "base binder" i would take Zceryll and Naberius Vestiges for a more "caster-y/ spy" style character

If you update to the Pact Unbound book, there is a conversion for Zceryll out on the webs ( so you can still use that ) and Loh'Moi , and Lady Jarah are fairly decent for that same type of character.

[The Redwolf]

Just so I don't have to wait for an answer in the answer topic and because it's relevant also for the OP, where can a complete list of vestiges be found? Are they just the ones in the Tome of Magic or are there others?

[Crinias]

Here are some additional ones. (http://es.scribd.com/doc/38835505/Tome-of-Magic-Additional-Vestige-Collection-v2-1-2)

The Consolidated Binder Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=137.0) pretty much covers all vestiges, so I suggest checking that out too.

[The Redwolf]

The first one's pretty cool, but trying to read the second with all that code in the way is messy...

[Crinias]

I searched some more and I found a repost with much better formatting (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11235). Much better on the eyes.

[Mithril Leaf]

One does notice that if they check the Handbook Index (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=399.0) that one might find the most recent version of the binder handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2942).

Now that that's out of the way, if you're in a high op group, the books Secrets of Pact Magic and Villains of Pact Magic off of the pact magic site (http://www.pactmagic.com/home.htm) offer a variety of mostly compatible vestiges. Also some base classes, with a recommendation for merging the two slightly different systems.