Factotum/Chameleon spells

[Qc Storm]

I am currently a Factotum 5/Chameleon 1, on my way to level 7 (Aiming for Chameleon 2 and that bonus feat). Chameleon is a pretty unique spellcaster since it allows for such massive spell choice. I looked around for spells that might be interesting, and made a list. Currently, I can only cast level 1 and 2 spells, but I will have access to level 3 spells at Chameleon 3, I believe.

Are there spells you suggest I add in this list? I currently fill the role of the Arcane Spellcaster and Skillmonkey. I have a few Fonts of Inspiration and Improved Trip + Spiked Chain.

The other members of my party are a Cleric, who enjoys buffing himself more than others, A whywontyoudie Crusader and a Dwaraxe Dualwielding Ranger/Scout Barbarian pouncer dwarf.

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/373/chameotumspells.png
Spells in red means they are available to both Divine and Arcane spell lists. Wizard/Sorcerer spells are not on the Chameleon Arcane list because if Factotum can cast it, the Chameleon can too.

I was also wondering if I should aim for Cunning Surge next, or if I should pump more levels in Chameleon for Caster Levels and spells (and pick up item creation feats) and the ability bonus.

[prufock]

I was also wondering if I should aim for Cunning Surge next, or if I should pump more levels in Chameleon for Caster Levels and spells (and pick up item creation feats) and the ability bonus.

I don't see Alter Self listed there. Second level spell, quite good.

You won't get Cunning Surge for 3 more levels. I would recommend grabbing the second level of Chameleon first to pay off in the short run, then go all Factotum to 8. Extra actions is tasty. You really can't go WRONG in either case.

[Venger]

I've been playing a factotum/chameleon for 3 years. it's great.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8750.0

check out the "spellbook" section for what you ought to add.

personally, I opted out of chameleon at 7, when you get the double aptitude ability.

I would caution that if you want cunning surge, make sure that combat in your game is actually hard enough to warrant it. my DM doesn't really play monsters smart and adheres pretty strictly to printed CR, so I don't need extra standard actions.

how hard is combat for you? survivable? diffcult? breezy? cunning surge is quite the game-changer.

what sort of theme/flavor/abilities do you want? if you want to go chameleon 10 to finish your casting and get ability boon +6, then that's a great choice, expecially since your casting is impossible to progress (short of legacy champion or uncanny trickster)

cloistered cleric 1/bone knight 4 is an option


don't actually take any item feats, you can get them fia your floating feat and collaboration with someone else with the apporpriate feat. if your DM will never let you find anyone, CWI opens most of the other ones.

[Qc Storm]

I don't see Alter Self listed there. Second level spell, quite good.

You won't get Cunning Surge for 3 more levels. I would recommend grabbing the second level of Chameleon first to pay off in the short run, then go all Factotum to 8. Extra actions is tasty. You really can't go WRONG in either case.

I banned the Polymorph line in the game I'm DMing, and consequently, he did the same. Though I allowed Alter Self so he might as well. What are some good uses of Alter Self? I never really looked deep into it.



personally, I opted out of chameleon at 7, when you get the double aptitude ability.

I would caution that if you want cunning surge, make sure that combat in your game is actually hard enough to warrant it. my DM doesn't really play monsters smart and adheres pretty strictly to printed CR, so I don't need extra standard actions.

how hard is combat for you? survivable? diffcult? breezy? cunning surge is quite the game-changer.

what sort of theme/flavor/abilities do you want? if you want to go chameleon 10 to finish your casting and get ability boon +6, then that's a great choice, expecially since your casting is impossible to progress (short of legacy champion or uncanny trickster)

Not too hard so far. Nobody really came close to dying. The hardest fight we've had was a gauntlet of dozens of bears, expending most of our resources. Shortly after, we killed a dragon that happened to be an important NPC and was not meant to be killed. Oh well.


don't actually take any item feats, you can get them fia your floating feat and collaboration with someone else with the apporpriate feat. if your DM will never let you find anyone, CWI opens most of the other ones.

Of course, that's what I meant. Speaking of that, what are some good feat options for that floating feat, assuming combat is expected? I've been thinking Combat Blessing could be cool combined with some paladin spells.

[Venger]

I banned the Polymorph line in the game I'm DMing, and consequently, he did the same. Though I allowed Alter Self so he might as well. What are some good uses of Alter Self? I never really looked deep into it.
pity.

the alter self handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=343.0) is here for your use. some of my favorites for human (which I assume you are to be a chameleon, fiat aside) is the nagas from OA. remember, you can go large





Not too hard so far. Nobody really came close to dying. The hardest fight we've had was a gauntlet of dozens of bears, expending most of our resources. Shortly after, we killed a dragon that happened to be an important NPC and was not meant to be killed. Oh well.
that was the case for me as well. in that case, personally, I would suggest not going factotum8 for cunning surge. it will make combat too easy and thus less fun. you'll make your teammates feel useless even if you purposely limit yourself, they'll know as shown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw)

for some DMs, combat is very hard, so cunning surge is needed. for others, not so much.



[url]Of course, that's what I meant. Speaking of that, what are some good feat options for that floating feat, assuming combat is expected? I've been thinking Combat Blessing could be cool combined with some paladin spells.[/QUOTE]
if you are at all interested in melee combat (after heavy buffing of course) then travel devotion travel devotion travel devotion! remember, opportunistic piety can also be used to turn undead! as can chameleon's mimic class feature that it gets at level 3 (though I personally always hold mine in reserve for immediate action evasion for 1 minute. that's a real lifesaver)

it lets you move your movement speed as a swift action. when activated, it lasts for 1 minute. you can turn it back on by burning a turn attempt.

all the devotions really (from complete champion) are situational and worth a look. they've got no prereqs for the most part, and many are fun. I assume you have knowledge devotion as a real feat already (if not, get it right away, and the collector of stories skilltrick from complete scoundrel, best investment you'll ever make)

combat blessing is okay.

the feat I've gotten the most mileage out of is travel devotion.

open-minded is also very useful. 5 ranks automatically in a skill can be a lifesaver, especially for knowledge or spellcraft checks. remember, just do 1 at a time, so if you botch again, you can put another 1 in the next day.

since you're not polymorphing, this won't be as useful, but alter self still gives some options. assume supernatural ability gives a whole new dimension to your alternate forms.

EWP (whatever) can also be a cute trick. swing around that gnomish quickrazor (you do have ranks in iajutsu focus, right :smalltongue: ) or whatever with no penalty.

item creation feats, obviously, also work

since you seem melee-ish, look into tactical feats. they're like 3 feats in one.

[Qc Storm]

Lots of stuff


I don't see nagas in this handbook. What's so cool about them? I did spot something though. 50ft speed and free combat reflex. This is pretty nice with a spiked chain.

Travel devotion is indeed nice, and I already have knowledge devotion. Teammates be mad when I never miss a hit. I have also invested heavily in Iaijutsu, which is situationally awesome. (Exploding all my IP on sneak attack + high iaijutsu roll + holy weapon = vampire dust)

[Venger]

I don't see nagas in this handbook. What's so cool about them? I did spot something though. 50ft speed and free combat reflex. This is pretty nice with a spiked chain.

oh, well, if they're not there, you can find them on p 173 of oriental adventures.

they're good because chameleon, asp, and cobra are the only humanoids of large size. as a spiked chain wielder, surely you can appreciate the utility of that.


Travel devotion is indeed nice, and I already have knowledge devotion. Teammates be mad when I never miss a hit. I have also invested heavily in Iaijutsu, which is situationally awesome. (Exploding all my IP on sneak attack + high iaijutsu roll + holy weapon = vampire dust)

travel devotion: use it, love it.

iaijutsu is pretty great.

are you an AoO build? if so, any form with good dex is beneficial to you.

do you have a long-term view for your character mapped out?

[prufock]

I banned the Polymorph line in the game I'm DMing, and consequently, he did the same. Though I allowed Alter Self so he might as well. What are some good uses of Alter Self? I never really looked deep into it.

1. Skill bonuses. Any racial bonus to skills applies when you alter self, as do size modifiers. This can help immensely with things like hide/move silently (forest gnome!), spot/listen, etc, if you know what forms to take. Link was posted in a previous response.
2. Natural armor. Troglodyte gets +6 natural armor, Lizardfolk gets +5.
3. Natural weapons. Better than iterative attacks at most levels. Likewise, Trog is best, Lizardfolk almost as good.
4. Movement. Land speed not so much, but a few races have swim speed, which doesn't come up often but can be a lifesaver when you need it. Raptorans have limited flight.
EDIT: Oh, and 5. Racial bonus feats. These are usually not much to write home about, though.

Note: I usually play with no setting-specific books; I know there are better combat forms than Trog out there in FR books and stuff.

[Qc Storm]

oh, well, if they're not there, you can find them on p 173 of oriental adventures.

they're good because chameleon, asp, and cobra are the only humanoids of large size. as a spiked chain wielder, surely you can appreciate the utility of that.

travel devotion: use it, love it.

iaijutsu is pretty great.


Their entry mentions 5ft by 5ft (coiled). What does that mean?


are you an AoO build? if so, any form with good dex is beneficial to you.

do you have a long-term view for your character mapped out?

I don't really have any long-term plans yet. My feats right now are, 2 fonts of inspiration, combat expertise and improved trip + knowledge devotion. Spiked chain came from a plot event. I'm a caster with some tripping on the side. Or the opposite.

[Venger]

Their entry mentions 5ft by 5ft (coiled). What does that mean?



I don't really have any long-term plans yet. My feats right now are, 2 fonts of inspiration, combat expertise and improved trip + knowledge devotion. Spiked chain came from a plot event. I'm a caster with some tripping on the side. Or the opposite.

that means that they are, as shown in the picture, creatures possessing human torsos, but snake lower halves instead of legs. so if they want to occupy less space, they can coil (like a snake) and take up 5x5 feet, or if they need reach (as you would) they can uncoil and be 5x10 to threaten more squares

do you have EWP through fiat or something then?

tripping is fun. remember that you can add your int to it, but I'm pretty sure you know that already from the factotum handbook.

[candycorn]

I strongly recommend taking chameleon at least to 2. The floating feat is very, very useful, for those that are creative. Skill focus, Item creation, any of a number of situational feats that are only good under specific conditions... Or also, Font of Inspiration for more IP's, etc.

Personally, I prefer Factotum 4 / Warblade 1 / Chameleon 1, though. Better HP and BAB, some useful maneuvers. You lose out on level 2 spells with factotum, but chameleon gets it soon enough.

[Qc Storm]

that means that they are, as shown in the picture, creatures possessing human torsos, but snake lower halves instead of legs. so if they want to occupy less space, they can coil (like a snake) and take up 5x5 feet, or if they need reach (as you would) they can uncoil and be 5x10 to threaten more squares

That's better than enlarge. I can fit in doorways fine, yet I still get the reach and +4 to trip. Its entry says it has poison (And a pretty deadly one at that). However it has no bite attack. Can I use it somehow?


do you have EWP through fiat or something then?

Yeah, we received some special training a while ago. I chose the chain whip.

[Rubik]

If your Int is 16 or above (duh, you're a factotum) then I'd avoid spending IPs to add sneak attack dice to your attacks. Add your Int instead.

Also, use your floating feat to grab maneuvers and stances from ToB. You want sneak attack? Grab +2d6 from a shadow hand stance.

[Venger]

If your Int is 16 or above (duh, you're a factotum) then I'd avoid spending IPs to add sneak attack dice to your attacks. Add your Int instead.

Also, use your floating feat to grab maneuvers and stances from ToB. You want sneak attack? Grab +2d6 from a shadow hand stance.

depending on his dm's ruling, cunning strike may give him more damage. some DMs say 1 point for 1d6 period. some say 1 point per 1d6, and some say use your rogue level as your factotum level (lvl 5 factotum, 3d6 SA for the point)

the one you're referring to is "assassin's stance" and you cannot get it with your free-floating feat alone, since it requires 1 shadow hand maneuver known as a prereq, so you'd need martial study (a shadow hand maneuver) before you could take it.

you can absolutely use it for maneuvers though. also, don't forget about soulmelds, you can shape any meld you want with your free-floating feat.

[nyjastul69]

Their entry mentions 5ft by 5ft (coiled). What does that mean? I don't really have any long-term plans yet. My feats right now are, 2 fonts of inspiration, combat expertise and improved trip + knowledge devotion. Spiked chain came from a plot event. I'm a caster with some tripping on the side. Or the opposite. OA is 3.0. In 3.0 large creatures were large (tall) like an ogre or large (long) like a horse. Large (tall) creatures usually had reach. Large (long) usually didn't. This was one of the significant changes in the revision.

Edit: Large (tall) creatures had a 5 foot facing and were 10 feet tall, 2 5' cubes stacked. Large (long) had a 5 foot facing and were 10' long, 2 5' cubes adjacent.

[Gnaeus]

Bite of the Wererat should be there also.

[Qc Storm]

If your Int is 16 or above (duh, you're a factotum) then I'd avoid spending IPs to add sneak attack dice to your attacks. Add your Int instead.

Also, use your floating feat to grab maneuvers and stances from ToB. You want sneak attack? Grab +2d6 from a shadow hand stance.

I used it to atomize an unwary guard. It is not a tactic I use in battle.


Bite of the Wererat should be there also.

Thanks.


don't forget about soulmelds, you can shape any meld you want with your free-floating feat.

I'll have to read about these. Never heard of them. Though I just saw something that gave +4 UMD so I am interested now.

[Venger]

I'll have to read about these. Never heard of them. Though I just saw something that gave +4 UMD so I am interested now.

shneeky wrote a very good handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215723) about it for your perusal. I believe the one you're talking about is the mage's spectacles. also gives that bonus to decipher script and spellcraft and lets you use all 3 of these checks untrained.

all the soulmelds and all of the meldshaping classes can be found in "magic of incarnum"

[Qc Storm]

shneeky wrote a very good handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215723) about it for your perusal. I believe the one you're talking about is the mage's spectacles. also gives that bonus to decipher script and spellcraft and lets you use all 3 of these checks untrained.

all the soulmelds and all of the meldshaping classes can be found in "magic of incarnum"

For what I understand, Shape Soulmeld allows me to take any Soulmeld and shape it on myself. This does not take an item slot.

However I cannot bind them (which would take up an item slot) and thus I am forced to use their lesser effects. Since I can take a new Shape Soulmeld every day, I can theoretically fill every soul slot with a lesser effect.

Am I right so far?

[Rubik]

depending on his dm's ruling, cunning strike may give him more damage. some DMs say 1 point for 1d6 period. some say 1 point per 1d6, and some say use your rogue level as your factotum level (lvl 5 factotum, 3d6 SA for the point) If you get your factotum level in rogue sneak attack it's definitely worth it, but if it's just 1 IP per 1d6 (or you just get 1d6 period), adding your 16+ Int is superior due to more consistent damage (that can be critical'd). Most factotums will have greater than 16 Int, so it's definitely superior in that case.


the one you're referring to is "assassin's stance" and you cannot get it with your free-floating feat alone, since it requires 1 shadow hand maneuver known as a prereq, so you'd need martial study (a shadow hand maneuver) before you could take it. If you use the previous day's feat for Martial Study for a Shadow Hand maneuver, you can use it to qualify for the stance (assuming the changeover is instantaneous). Otherwise a cheap magic item (Shadow Hand gloves) will let you fulfill the prereq.


you can absolutely use it for maneuvers though. also, don't forget about soulmelds, you can shape any meld you want with your free-floating feat.Maneuvers and soulmelds are both awesome uses for feats. See if you can get a friendly psion to Overchannel the Psionic Open Chakra power (for the shoulders slot) and grab the phase cloak. Ye gods, that's an amazing soulmeld.

[Venger]

If you get your factotum level in rogue sneak attack it's definitely worth it, but if it's just 1 IP per 1d6 (or you just get 1d6 period), adding your 16+ Int is superior due to more consistent damage (that can be critical'd). Most factotums will have greater than 16 Int, so it's definitely superior in that case.
agreed. more or less what I was saying (or trying to say) talking about cunning strike is difficult


If you use the previous day's feat for Martial Study for a Shadow Hand maneuver, you can use it to qualify for the stance (assuming the changeover is instantaneous). Otherwise a cheap magic item (Shadow Hand gloves) will let you fulfill the prereq.
it actually doesn't work that way. the chameleon's feat is renewed once every 24 hours at the start of each new day. by definition, you can't have 2 feats at once with it, so if you had martial study on tuesday, you'd have something else on wednesday, so you can't use your floating feat to be 2 feats. you're right about the shadow gloves/stone dragon belt/whatever. stone dragon belt is also good because it gives you mountain hammer. ignore DR, deal extra damage, roundhouse kick through adamandtium. good thing, fun, excellent utility.


Maneuvers and soulmelds are both awesome uses for feats. See if you can get a friendly psion to Overchannel the Psionic Open Chakra power (for the shoulders slot) and grab the phase cloak. Ye gods, that's an amazing soulmeld.

definitely agree. since OP is a factotum and said he makes use of UMD, let me say that "open least chakra" is also a 4th level cleric and sor/wiz spell, meaning you can get a wand of it, and that it lasts for a stupid 24 hours. if you do that, you can open any of your least chakras (crown, feet, or hands) and then, if you took shape soulmeld for a meld that goes in one of those slots, you can bind that sucker.

obviously, the psionic one will let you open the shoulders chakra for the phase cloak (makes you ethereal!) but in case psionics is nonexistant or difficult to come by in your game, you're not completely out of options.