Generalist vs. Specialist & Build Help

[AWiz_Abroad]

Hey All,

So, after the new year, my group is starting a new campaign in our existing campaign world (swapping DMs, advancing in time 20 years or so, all new characters).

I'm the primary arcane caster, and a huge fan of wizard base class. I'm looking for an optimized wizard, and have of course read the existent threads on this site and others on optimizing a Wizard. However, I've not found (and maybe my google fu has failed me, a solid comparison of Elf Generalist vs. Human Specialist.

How would you all advise me? I'm looking for theory discussions, as well as your favorite builds. I've been intrigued by the War Weaver class, but nothing is set in stone

Additional info


Setting specific is frowned upon by the DM (not out of the question, but strict scrutiny is applied[Incantrix is strictly out])
No UA
NO BoED
NO BoVD
No Flaws
All other books are permissible
Starting ECL 10


Rest of the Party

Dread Necro 8/Warlock2 (looking to eventually go Eldrich Theurge)
Shadow template Bard6/Lyric T. 2
Ranger 1/Barbarian 2/Fighter 1/Fist of the Forests 3/Deepwarden 2/Frostrager1 (Frozen Dwarf smasher) AC =ridiculous
Some sort of Favored Soul Build (The only one I haven't worked with on the build, but he's the existent DM, with really good system mastery)


TL;DR: Build Advice Elf Generalist vs. Specialist Wizard

[Suddo]

So this topic has been debated heavily. Personally I'm more for the Elf Generalist assuming you can get Grey Elf (+2 Int Elf).

The argument for Generalist is simple. Giving up any spells from any schools isn't worth it if you want to be a bananas crazy optimized do everything wizard. I don't have my books/notes in front of me so I can't tell you off the top of my head what the major spells for the weaker subschools, these being Evocation, Necromancy and Enchantment, have to offer but I know someone else will gladly tell you what spells they have that are nice.

The argument for Specialist is a touch more complicated. I'll take the popular Conjuration example. So you give up a couple of spell schools (usually Evocation and either Necromancy or Enchantment) and gain a lot of stuff, you can gain Abjurant Jaunt (one of the main reasons to be a Conjurer) which allows you to cheat things IntMod times per day, you get the extra spell slots, and some of the spells from the other schools can be cheated into existence (Shadow Evocation and the like can copy any useful Evocation spell and there are other cross over effects for the other schools) so you don't loose out on too much. You can also just go Diviner and get the extra slots and just ban Evocation (as stated above is often the easiest to get things from). Also there might be feat chains and such to get back lost spell schools but these are obscure and often take up too many feats.

Also I assume no Dragon Magazine, because there are some broken things in there. Oh and double check that you can't get Ice Assassin, from Frostburn, or just be kind and ignore it.

Edit:
Oh hell how could I forget. Get Spontaneous Divination at level 5 it is probably the best ACF for wizard and should be gotten regardless of the rest of the build. This is from Complete Divine.
Oh Domain Wizards (maybe from UA, but is also srd) are also a thing and if your DM is cheese friendly you can technically throw it on a generalist wizard.
Oh here is Tippy weighing in on the subject: Link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13078693&postcount=4). Though I do disagree with him on Mage of the Arcane Order.
Oh familiarize yourself with Dark Chaos Shuffle and trade away some of the crappy feats you may pick up for better ones. Though don't try and cheese it too far otherwise you may annoy the DM this includes but is not limited to swapping weapon proficiencies.
Edit2:
Oh crafting is always an option. XP is a River combined with the Artisan feats (from a campaign book but not "campaign specific" in my opinion). Also just learning what spells to put on wands is useful, Lesser Vigor to Fell Drain Magic Missile.
A note on Abjurant Jaunt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13099101&postcount=71). In fact he the thread that one is from is probably the biggest discussion on this subject I know of and where I asked a lot of questions.

[ahenobarbi]

Personally I prefer playing focused specialist. With proper school choice I get all versatility I care for. And choosing spells becomes a lot easier (because I have more high-level slots).

[AWiz_Abroad]

Alright,

Any other votes for Specialist? The cited thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237958) is persuasive on the generalist side for me.

Also, I did forget to add, No Dragon content.


So,

Right now, I'm good with Grey Elf. Generalist Wizard Substitution. If I can persuade my DM, I'll go domain wizard, but don't plan on it

No Abrupt Jaunt (I will miss that).

Much of my previous wizard builds have revolved around specialists (IotSV, Master Specialist level etc) so I've never really built a generalist wizard before. Any favorite builds?

Remember, I'm primary arcane caster.

[dextercorvia]

If you are playing from low levels then the extra slots from Focused Specialist are nice. You need a good int there so that you get plenty of bonus slots on your higher level spells, otherwise you are pretty much limited to 1 non-specialist spell.

If you are starting later, then you likely have the depth of slots to make Generalist work.

Personally, I would go Grey Elf (or other Int bonus race) Focused Specialist, unless I absolutely had to be able to do everything.

[eggs]

Depending on level, spells known are often capped by wealth, which makes the costs of specialization less "having fewer options" and more "having these awesome options instead of those awesome options." From this perspective, the costs are very close to nil until nearing the higher levels.

Elf Generalist does somewhat address that by just giving more spells known and the extra daily spell. But the Elf Generalist's advantage comes down to less than one feat's difference, and its disadvantages are 8 flexible spells per day. Extra Slot isn't a particularly desirable feat, but comparing 8 spells to one feat slot, I do think it's still an appealing exchange.

Plus specialists get some great ACFs and racial subs, especially for conjurers and illusionists (maybe a bit less so with the UA ban), and decent to abusable supplementary options like Master Specialist PrC and the Theurgic Specialist (not useful in your Dragon-less situation, but absolutely outrageous in certain builds).

Normally, I'd go specialist feeling confident that I was coming out ahead. The one circumstance where I wouldn't would be specifically building for an arena match, where grabbing a wide array of very specific spell effects for very specific sets of immunities is exactly what keeps characters alive.

[AWiz_Abroad]

If you are playing from low levels then the extra slots from Focused Specialist are nice. You need a good int there so that you get plenty of bonus slots on your higher level spells, otherwise you are pretty much limited to 1 non-specialist spell.

If you are starting later, then you likely have the depth of slots to make Generalist work.

Personally, I would go Grey Elf (or other Int bonus race) Focused Specialist, unless I absolutely had to be able to do everything.

Pretty much this.

The DN is going to be a undead creating blaster with decent melee, and I believe the Favored soul is going to do the buff & wade into Melee as well. The bard is going to play us a tune while hiding in plain sight, and the frozen dwarf hulk is going to shred things in Melee. I've really got to be able to do just about everything.

EDIT: Plus, we're starting at ECL 10, so factor that in.

[Suddo]

My vote was for generalist from the beginning. Domain wizard is nice but not a necessity, Spontaneous Divination is a far more useful thing to make sure and have.

As far as builds there are plenty of things you can do I mean you're a generalist. Personally I'd still run Mage of the Arcane Order, probably get Abjurant Champion. If you know you're going to be high level or want to play slightly unoptimized doing a Psionic/Wizard or Ultimate Magus are both fun things to do also.

[chaos_redefined]

In order of preference:
1) Elf Generalist with Domain: This gets you an extra spell/level, plus one more of the highest level.
2) Domain Wizard: If your DM says that domain wizards aren't generalists, this is still good.
3) Focused Specialist or Specialist: Giving up Enchantment and Necromancy is pretty easy. You can still get a enchantment-like effect from Voice of the Dragon. Necromancy gives some nice combat spells, but so do most schools. The remaining schools hurt to lose, but focused specialist might be worth it in a campaign with more encounters/day. A opinion piece on the topic can be found here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864630/Focused_Specialist_is_better_than_you_think).
4) Elf Generalist: I don't think Enchantment and Necromancy bring enough to the table to warrant the loss of the lower level spells.