Help the monk?

[MidgetMarine]

I'm currently in a dnd 3.5 campaign, running at 8th level currently. It's not my own character I'm worried about. I'm playing a 6th level fighter/2nd level Hammer of Moradin (modified version for non casters) and couldn't be happier. (love me some high AC, HP with a pinch of DR)

So I'm fine, but the monk needs some help.

I'm playing with a first timer. And at CC, he picked a monk. (dwarven) and rolled some pretty damn good stats too. Anyways, recently I've begun to notice that h is Falling behind. He's DPS oriented and is starting to pale in comparison to the other PCs. I like the guy and want to see him have fun, and play a strong character. Because no one should have their first entry to RpGs be being completely outdone. So, I ask you. What can be do to get back on track, he likes the idea of the unarmed striker and the monk fluff is perfect for that. However, monk mechanics are, as we know, sub par. So, what can we do? Is there a fix to the class that helps him out? Is there another class or a PrC that would help?

[Gnaeus]

He's monk 8?

Can we change class levels?

What books are in play?

What else is in the party?

[GoatBoy]

Pathfinder monk, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk) for one. It's not a complete fix, but it's a step in the right direction.

[MidgetMarine]

No class level changes.

Yup. Flat monk.


DMG, PHB, and all the main. The completes are allowed. Anything else is DM discretion. Though no ToB.

Rest of the party: me: fighter/hammer of moradin. Tankytankytanky.
Elven rogue/sorcerer/arcane archEd
Halfling rogue
Elven bard/dragon disciple
Gnomish cleric

[Eldariel]

Well, the best he can do within the class is to:
- Put all his level-ups in Strength (without Tome of Battle he cannot really go either Dex- or Wis-SAD)
- Take Improved Natural Attack.
- Pick Improved Trip on level 6 and Stunning Fist on one of the earlier levels. Pick Ability Focus: Stunning Fist as a feat.
- Get Mage Armor from the party spellcaster, purchasing Pearl of Power I if necessary. Also, Greater Magic Weapon/Greater Magic Fang on the Unarmed Strikes again buying them a Pearl of Power III if necessary.
- Ask for Enlarge Person. A lot. Hell, get it Permanencied and squeeze through squares if necessary (but this kinda makes you fubar'd if Dispelled so maybe just make do with the 10 min/level versions; they last hours so it can be precast much of the time when moving in a hostile neighborhood).
- Buy Strength, Dex, Wis and Con-boosting items (yeah, sucks I know, but Monk's a Monk)
- Gain some way to move and full attack (for instance Soulmeld "Sphinx Claws" gets you Pounce and can be acquired for two feats; Shape Soulmeld and Open Least Chakra: Hands - Magic of Incarnum)
- Wield a reach weapon to take AoOs with (he doesn't even need to be proficient; he'll do all his normal attacks with unarmed strikes but since he doesn't requires hands for those he can easily keep something to threaten reach with in his hands). Ki Focus for optimal Stunning Fist delivery (lots of on-hit effects between Stunning Fist and Improved Trip).
- Seriously, I can't overemphasize the importance of starting with high Strength, putting all your level-ups and much of your gold into it. Monk's biggest weakness even in low optimization games is that they can't hit a brick wall reliably so all their flurry attacks are wasted.
- If Oriental Adventures is open, Empty Hand Mastery Feat Combination is something to go for. An extra size increase for unarmed strikes is real nice.
- Boots of Speed and something that grants flying (e.g. Winged Vest from Magic Item Compendium) are really useful for him.

[Gnaeus]

Yuck.

On the + side, it doesn't look like party is very optimized either.

I would recommend shifting to Psionic Warrior and taking the Talashtora feat (Secrets of Sarlona)

If you can't get that, ditch monk, start taking levels in cleric. Trade a domain for Travel Devotion so that he can get full attacks all the time.

[kitcik]

Assuming the group is non-optimized, it's still saveable.

The fact that a couple of level do-overs is off the table (monk 6 is not an end-of-the-wrold exit point) is sad. The fact that ToB is off the table while full casters are allowed is a crime.

Anyways, he could still become somewhat of a Hood. He's got monk speed and Jump as a class skill, so he can Battle Jump. There are a bajillion ways to get Pounce. He can up damage through Improved Natural Attack, Enlarge Person and Mighty Wallop (or Greater Mighty Wallop, although that gets into cheese territory). He can get Law Devotion to save his terrible BAB.

Taking 2 levels in Fighter to get full BAB and grab feats is a decent idea, then go into a good full BAB class of your choice. Barb is rough due to the alignment thing.

[MidgetMarine]

Oh yeah. We're nowhere near optimized. The DM's a big fan of interesting character concepts, and balances the game for us. It's been a hell of a lot of fun.

[Eldariel]

If you can't get that, ditch monk, start taking levels in cleric. Trade a domain for Travel Devotion so that he can get full attacks all the time.

I think it's a bit too late for that. Taking Travel Devotion as a feat is fine (chances are he won't have a lot of Turn Undead uses so taking it as a feat doesn't cost much) but actually going into Cleric on ECL 9 when the party already has a Cleric will just make him feel really overshadowed since getting Divine Power on ECL 15 isn't exactly as impressive as on ECL 7.

Frankly, I'd say when you're Monk 8 already might as well go to Monk 11, get Greater Flurry and then just multiclass into a full BAB class (or continue Monk, not like it makes a whole lot of difference anymore). Monk 11 is the last breakoff point the class has; while you've lost a lot by that point, getting that extra attack definitely helps.

Right now he can ask for spell-based assistance tho:
- Ask for Mage Armor from the Sorcerer (he probably knows it anyways since it's a level 1 spell and all, right?)
- Ask for Greater Magic Weapon from the Cleric, paying the iron price if necessary. He needs his fists enchanted and Greater Magic Weapon at +2/+2 is the only thing the party has access to that's anywhere near the power level he needs.
- Try to get him Enlarged somehow. Hell, try to purchase a permanent enlargement from an NPC Wizard with high caster level or something 'cause he really needs that size increase for weapon damage dice. The prices for spellcasting services are in the PHB; they are not very high.


Those are things he can do right now without any build choices. Rest comes down to items, feats and such.

Alternatively, the DM could tailor him a belt or something that does allows him to stay Enlarged at will (and become normal-sized with a standard action too) but that would of course require DM intervention (since he himself didn't come on here to talk, I'm wondering if that's on the table).

DM could also institute the PF Monk class which is already much better (for starters it has full BAB when flurrying so it can hit things). There's a lot the DM could do but I'm guessing he's not as aware of the issues as you are, or not willing to do a lot about it?


Also, posting this guy's feats and items and attributes and such would help. And posting what exactly we're working with; what can be changed.

[MidgetMarine]

The fact that ToB is off the table while full casters are allowed is a crime.



I know. It's not great. But it's not bad. The DM knows how to keep the casters in hand. The bard isn't much of a threat. And the Gnomish Cleric's player understands the potential unfairness in his hands, and has been a real team player.

[Kelb_Panthera]

See if you can talk him into a caster dip and either sacred or enlightened fist, perhaps dragon disciple even. Psionics can be a godsend for a monk too. Psychic fist (fist of zuoken if you're looking in the book) is a great PrC for monks and zerth cenobite isn't too bad either.

Sticking to straight monk doesn't get you a skilled pugilist, it gets you a spiritually enlightened character who's united his body and mind; more kung fu: the legend continues than UFC unleashed, if you take my meaning.

[MidgetMarine]

Also, posting this guy's feats and items and attributes and such would help. And posting what exactly we're working with; what can be changed.

Alrighty. I'll give you what I know for sure off the top of my head now, and probably more later.

His attributes are pretty good. (Just for the record I'm going to be listing attributes as [Natural]/[Enhanced with items, etc.]

He's got a 16/18 str.
A 16/20dex.
14 con
16 Wis
10 int
8 Cha

AC is somewhere in mid 20s, If i remember correctly.

He's got bracers of armor +3, Some natural armor item of some sort, A Magic Fang item.

Feats: TWF, ITWF, (Not sure about this one, leaving space open. I think it might be Improved Natural Weapon acutally)
Monk level feats: Stunning fist, Combat reflexes (I Think, don't quote me on that one) And Improved trip


Sidenote: Also Proud owner of Armored Polar Bear. (Long story.)

[Gavinfoxx]

Awaken the Polar Bear, play it. ;)

Anyway, can the Monk swap out existing feat choices or Monk options for Alternate Class Features?

Like...
Holy Strike (Complete Champion)
Invisible Fist (Champions of Valor)
Resistant Body (Planar Handbook)

or similar things?

Is the DM familiar with the PHB II Retraining and Rebuilding rules?

[Gnaeus]

I think it's a bit too late for that. Taking Travel Devotion as a feat is fine (chances are he won't have a lot of Turn Undead uses so taking it as a feat doesn't cost much) but actually going into Cleric on ECL 9 when the party already has a Cleric will just make him feel really overshadowed since getting Divine Power on ECL 15 isn't exactly as impressive as on ECL 7.

Frankly, I'd say when you're Monk 8 already might as well go to Monk 11, get Greater Flurry and then just multiclass into a full BAB class (or continue Monk, not like it makes a whole lot of difference anymore). Monk 11 is the last breakoff point the class has; while you've lost a lot by that point, getting that extra attack definitely helps.

I would dip at least cleric 1. (assuming that Psi War is not available). If he has decent cha, the turn attempts will help him. If not, it will open up a lot of items for his use in the way of wands or staves that he can use to fix his problems. 3 levels of Sacred fist wouldn't suck.

Otherwise, I would still get out of monk. Certainly no later than 11. Probably earlier than that. Become non-lawful ASAP for barbarian. 2 levels of fighter. Fist of the forest . Maybe even rogue.

[MidgetMarine]

He might be able to. The DM is Ok with some retro reconfiguration. As long as its not too major, like changing classes entirely.

[MidgetMarine]

He might be able to take Psi classes. The DM has never run a psionic class before and would have to learn the whole psionic system.

[Eldariel]

Alrighty. I'll give you what I know for sure off the top of my head now, and probably more later.

His attributes are pretty good. (Just for the record I'm going to be listing attributes as [Natural]/[Enhanced with items, etc.]

He's got a 16/18 str.
A 16/20dex.
14 con
16 Wis
10 int
8 Cha

AC is somewhere in mid 20s, If i remember correctly.

He's got bracers of armor +3, Some natural armor item of some sort, A Magic Fang item.

Feats: TWF, ITWF, (Not sure about this one, leaving space open. I think it might be Improved Natural Weapon acutally)
Monk level feats: Stunning fist, Combat reflexes (I Think, don't quote me on that one) And Improved trip


Sidenote: Also Proud owner of Armored Polar Bear. (Long story.)


Okay, and what exactly are the problems you're detecting? In what ways is he falling behind?

I assume the problem is he can't hit a damn thing, he doesn't succeed Trip-checks, he needs full attacks to do anything and he kinda gets clobbered in melee?

Bracers of Armor make Mage Armor kinda useless (only +1 more at this point); alas. Magic Fang Item likewise makes Greater Magic Weapon kinda useless. Enlarge Person is still something I strongly recommend for him to try to get somehow but obviously nobody in the party can cast it (unless the Cleric has Strength-domain or the Sorc happens to have it) so he needs an NPC for that.


His strength seems painfully low. Where are his level-ups? Those could amount for a +1 to his strength modifier if they were all there. 18 start just wasn't there I suppose.

He definitely wants a Monk's Belt for the unarmed damages. And yeah, Boots of Speed. Those will have to be in the future I suppose. And yeah, he needs flight; his move speed bonus applies to any movement mode so he'll be much faster flying than walking (especially as a Dwarf) and this would allow him to not be a total dog vs. things like Dragons and stuff.

Good Strength and Enlargement would help him Trip things which in turn would help him hit. A lot. He should also try and master the "higher ground" and flanking options as he really needs the attack bonus. Carrying a reach weapon (even one he's not proficient in) for attacks of opportunity, especially improved trip, could certainly help.

Most of the To Hit bonuses available to him are unfortunately item- and stat-based and he's kinda behind in those terms. Two-Weapon Fighting is certainly not helping his cause (hell, how does he have ITWF anyways? He can't qualify for it before level 8 and no feats are gained on level 8). Devotions would help him but with that Charisma, you'd get very few uses per day even with a Cleric dip. Though it might still be worth it.


As much as it hurts at this point (since he's already taken 8) I think he's best served with 3 more levels of Monk to get that 3rd full BAB attack and to remove Flurry-penalties, talk him out of using TWF when he can't hit a broad side of a barn with it and get him to pump the **** outta his strength with items, level-ups and whatever the hell he can find.

**** Dex, he needs Strength for To hit and damage. Also, he needs to get enlarged for tripping, reach, unarmed damage and even more strength (gonna hurt his AC, sucks, doesn't matter, he needs the size increase).

At Monk 11 he can reach 2d8 Unarmed Strikes with Monk's Belt and eventual 2d10 with Monk's Tattoo [Magic of Faerun] (Superior Unarmed Strike could do it too but it's unfortunately in ToB). So at that point I'd multiclass. Either a mix of full BAB classes or some sort of 10-level fast progression caster warrior class (Suel Arcanamach, Psionic Fist, Divine Crusader, something of the sort) afterwards.

EDIT: Except he needs Wis as his casting stat. Well, that leaves Psionic Fist and Ur-Priest I guess.

[Eldariel]

He might be able to take Psi classes. The DM has never run a psionic class before and would have to learn the whole psionic system.

Psionics are quite similar for anybody who has played any Japanese RPGs.

You have a certain number of power points (mana) that you use you manifest (cast) powers (spells) you know. These are replenished with 8 hours of rest.
The number of power points you have depends on your character level and casting stat (chart for the number of bonus points gained on the first levels of Expanded Psionics Handbook or here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/index.htm#thePowerPointReserve)).
Your manifester level (basically your number of levels in the manifesting class) determines the maximum number of power points you can spend on a single power (including any metapsionics, augmentations and such you add to it).
Powers mostly follow the same rules as spells (dispelled by magic, manifesting provokes attack of opportunity unless manifesting defensively, normally take 1 standard action to manifest, etc.) but manifesting is a mental action and thus doesn't have somatic or verbal components (as such manifested powers can't be counterspelled).
If you have 1 or more power points, you can be psionically focused. Acquiring Psionic Focus is a DC 20 Concentration-check and requires a full-round action (or move action if you have Psionic Meditation feat). When you are psionically focused, you can expend this focus to take 15 on a Concentration-check. More importantly, Psionic Focus is expended to use many psionic feats. You can only be Psionically Focused; that is you can only "have" one Psionic Focus at a time (outside Psi Crystal; basically a familiar; which can also be focused with the right feats).


Besides, most of the burden (fairly small for the power list Psionic Fist gains) would be on the Monk-player and I'm sure he could manage that.

Yeah, entering Psionic Fist on level 9 could help a lot. Psionic Powers do nice things for a Monk (for example, the Expansion-power completely sidesteps the Enlarge Person problem). Hell, enter right away and once you're a level 10 Psionic Fist you can go back to Monk and finish the class to level 11 for the full Flurry.

[MidgetMarine]

I'm currently on an iPod and can't type up the problems yet. I'll have my hands on a keyboard in about 40 minutes and can explain fully then.

[MidgetMarine]

Here's the basic problem: He can't keep up.

If the other PCs roll a higher initiative, they tend to just walk on up and start ripping opponents limb from limb. When he goes, he'll generally attack the same opponents for a fraction of the damage. Sometimes, by the time he goes, most the opponents will have dropped from massive combined damage from the other PCs

[Eldariel]

Here's the basic problem: He can't keep up.

If the other PCs roll a higher initiative, they tend to just walk on up and start ripping opponents limb from limb. When he goes, he'll generally attack the same opponents for a fraction of the damage. Sometimes, by the time he goes, most the opponents will have dropped from massive combined damage from the other PCs

Is the problem more in his damage, hitting or both? Or just getting full attacks?

[Daer]

one that might help would be allowing use hand wraps in weapon slot. and then these hand wraps could hold enhancements like any weapon but would still be unarmed.
not official stuff but makes sense imho. and they did it on ddo.

[Gavinfoxx]

and they did it on ddo.

And Neverwinter Nights...

[Eldariel]

And Neverwinter Nights...

And PnP itself has Necklace of Natural Attacks which is basically a reasonably priced version of Amulet of Mighty Fists (designed for creatures with over 4 natural attacks... Yeah, real smart to print that item for Monks).

[Kelb_Panthera]

Here's the basic problem: He can't keep up.

If the other PCs roll a higher initiative, they tend to just walk on up and start ripping opponents limb from limb. When he goes, he'll generally attack the same opponents for a fraction of the damage. Sometimes, by the time he goes, most the opponents will have dropped from massive combined damage from the other PCs

Travel devotion + a 1 level cleric dip + 1 night stick (just one or you'll get them banned) = can move more or less freely in battle. Toss in imp init at 12 and he'll probably feel like he's keeping up just fine. Also, look into a necklace of natural weapons to boost those unarmed strikes.
Enhancement + abilities > enhancement alone.

[animewatcha]

Are you guys at a point in which he can swap out a character in which will not mess up the story? Can your DM allow for 3.0 AND drag mag for the purposes of keeping a 'monk' while switching his orientation of DPS to tripping? Maybe LA buyoff as well?

@sidenote: Book of shining south, Regional feat of Lion Tribe Warrior or similar to. Noticed that it didn't have the 'special:' note of being 1st level only. Does this mean that it can be taken later?

[Gavinfoxx]

Maybe you could switch him to a Wild Monk (Dragon #324)?

All the ACF's I mentioned can stack with Wild Monk... and then he can start getting various Wild Shape feats...

Frozen Wild Shape, Draconic Wild Shape, Exalted Wild Shape, etc.


In fact, I'm going to copy and paste some Monk Alternatives from an earlier post:



"Here are the major 'replacements' for monk:

1.) Unarmed Swordsage, from Tome of Battle. This is the most obvious Monk 2.0. Go take a look at it; the Unarmed bit is an Adaptation of the monk, and it does everything the monk wanted to do.

2.) Tashalatora Psychic Warrior. What you do with this is take a level or 2 of Monk, the Tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona, and go into Psychic Warrior from Expanded Psionics Handbook or the System Resource Document and never look back. Instead of Psychic Warrior, Ardent (from Complete Psionics) can work well, too.

3.) (Whirling Frenzy [System Resource Document or Unearthed Arcana] or Ferocity [Cityscape Web Enhancement]) Spirit Lion Totem (Complete Champion), Wolf Totem (System Resource Document or Unearthed Arcana) Barbarian. Those are the core changes and acf's of the barbarian class to make it more monk-like. Take Skilled City Dweller-ride for tumble (Cityscape Web Enhancement) and City Brawler (Dragon Magazine #349). Streetfighter (Cityscape Web Enhancement) also helps. I would suggest Whirling Frenzy over Ferocity. Just get Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle), a Monk's Belt (DMG or SRD, if your wisdom is high), some light armor (if your wisdom isn't high), a Monk's Tattoo (Magic of Faerun I think), a Necklace of Natural attacks (Savage Species), and/or a Fanged Ring (Dragon Compendium Volume 1). In fact, any of these builds could maybe use those items!

4.) Monk 2/Mystic/Sacred Fist. This monk build uses a divine class, and the 'text over table' rule to get full casting for the Sacred Fist prestige class in complete divine. It works okay with Cleric, great with the Mystic class from Dragonlance Campaign Setting (choose a strong melee domain or devotion [complete champion!]), and pretty good with Favored Soul from Complete Divine. Don't take more than 2 levels of Monk. Focus on long-duration self-buffs.

5.) Monk with a huuuuge variety of alternative class features. Namely: Wild Monk (Dragon Magazine #324), Holy Strike (Complete Champion), Invisible Fist (Champions of Valor), Resistant Body (Planar Handbook), who picks up the 'X Wild Shape' (where X is a descriptor) feats from Draconomicon, Book of Exalted Deeds, and Frostburn. Make sure the DM lets you use your unarmed strikes at the end of your natural attacks. Focus on Wild Shape forms that get Pounce. Only works as 'powerful' once you get Wild Shape, and if you use a method of speaking while in Wild Shape, and of getting your gear to work while in Wild Shape as well (Wilding Clasps, or taking it off and putting it on after you shape)."

[Eldariel]

4.) Monk 2/Mystic/Sacred Fist. This monk build uses a divine class, and the 'text over table' rule to get full casting for the Sacred Fist prestige class in complete divine. It works okay with Cleric, great with the Mystic class from Dragonlance Campaign Setting (choose a strong melee domain or devotion [complete champion!]), and pretty good with Favored Soul from Complete Divine. Don't take more than 2 levels of Monk. Focus on long-duration self-buffs.

Even without "text over table", Sacred Fist is quite reasonable off a Monk 1-basis (you don't need Monk 2 to enter). However, I don't think any of these options are applicable here since Monk 8 is in play and retraining isn't allowed.

[animewatcha]

Hence my question of 'in this point of the campaign/story, can he swap out a character' ? Not retrain. This monk 8 leaves and a different created character is able to pop in.

[Telonius]

TWF, ITWF

Hokay, that's probably a big source of the failure to keep up. Monk has no built-in source of bonus damage to make TWF worth it, at all. I'm guessing he uses these feats often? And also assuming no Power Attack in the build.

There are about two things I can think of at this point to salvage things, and still get him to do the things he wants to be doing. (Nimble fighter that hits things for a lot of damage).

First; yes, you might as well take Monk to 11 at this point. But first, a level of Rogue at 9, plus the Ascetic Rogue feat. Then, back to Monk until you get Greater Flurry. At that point, you could go Rogue the rest of the way. Beg/plead/bribe the DM into allowing Craven as the 12th-level feat; that would probably be the one thing that would most quickly bring the damage up to speed. (He's a fairly high-level Monk; if he can't use Tumble to get himself into flanking position at this point, then there's even more to fix than I'm assuming).

The second thing would be to get this gentleman into Kensai as soon as possible. With the right selection on his "signature weapon" he could be dishing out a load of Wounding damage.

There are other ways you could go about it (Sparring Dummy of the Master plus Scout; Sacred or Enlightened Fist; Tash; some of the other options already mentioned), and they're more powerful; but they're also much more advanced options. I wouldn't suggest them to a first-time player.

EDIT: Also ... with a dex of 20, he's going last regularly? Is the rest of the party composed of Rogues and Nerveskitter wizards?

[Krazzman]

My advice is:

Let him use 3 things from dungeonscape and one from comp warrior(?).

First: Trade Flurry for the strike that deals double damage. Trade Slow Fall for Wall running (both in Dungeonscape if I recollect it correctly).
Second: trade TWF and ITWF for Power Attack and Hammer Fist (use your fists twohanded).

Now he should deal quite a bit of dmg with a single strike. Not that good but not bad either. Additionally see if your DM would allow PF's version of Power Attack feats (Furious Focus [First PA per round doesn't have a lesser to hit rate]).

Additionally I would strongly advice to trade at least some monk levels for Psionic Warrior Levels with the beforementioned Tashalatora feat. This way he can Enlarge himself.

[Twilightwyrm]

Well, there is always the great Tattooed Monk PrC he could begin taking (he might need to retrain a feat to get Improved Grapple). It's not going to super-charge him, but it is a generally good class and has many good abilities he can use to improve his role in combat (the ability to use Alter Self being one of these). It's not the greatest, but it will help.
Additionally, there is a particular combination I have in mind that might help:
Take the feats Freezing the Lifeblood (let's him paralyze instead of simply stun an opponent), Sun School, (both from Complete Warrior) and (optionally) Death Blow (From Complete Adventurer). Once he has these, he should pick up a set of Dimension Stride Boots (from the Magic Item Compendium). You may be able to see where I am going with this. Finally, he should pick up a good weapon with a x3-x4 crit modified (preferable a monk weapon, for consistency's sake, but a Dwarven Waraxe would be both interesting and flavorful, if unconventional). In combat, he can teleport to the enemy, using his free attack from the "Flash of Sunset" tactical option from the Sun School feat to make an unarmed Freezing the Lifeblood attack, and follow up with a coup de grace from his weapon, preferable backed up with power attack, against his now paralyzed opponent. Is it a bit gimmicky? More than a bit. Is it a bit convoluted? Sure. Will your friend experience the the sheer joy of having set up and executed a masterful and elegant, probable killing blow against his foe? Well that is the plan. Note that, even in the absence of foes vulnerable to paralysis, he can still stun, confuse, and make quick jumping attacks fairly often each day. This will only become more effective if the DM let's him improve the boots, or optionally (though I admit it is a bit wonky), buying multiple pairs of boots, and then just switching them out whenever he runs out of charges. There are only 2000gp after all.

[Gwendol]

Yeah, the TWF and ITWF seems to be the source of his woes. I'm with Krazzman on what to do next, those are solid advice.

The other rout is what Telonius suggested with a dip in rogue and getting Craven.

The third is that combat reflexes without reach is kind of like a speed-boat with no engine. Get hold of oriental adventures and pick a monk reach weapon!

Try and swap DEX for STR, that should help with the mediocre BAB. Get more STR increase items and/or monks belt.

Other feats to consider are Improved grapple, Improved natural weapon, ability focus: Stunning fist (already suggested).

[only1doug]

If your caster is willing to help grab Greater mighty Wallop from races of the dragon (L3 sorc/wiz spell) and give him 1hr/lvl weapon size increment on his fists (+1 size category /4 caster levels) that should bring his DPS into line nicely.

[Gwendol]

A druid dip could help as well: being able to cast Shillelagh on the quarterstaff will sure help with the damage dealing.

[limejuicepowder]

A druid dip could help as well: being able to cast Shillelagh on the quarterstaff will sure help with the damage dealing.

Or he could get a wand of shillalagh. Amazingly enough, monks do have UMD. Has he been putting ranks in it?

[only1doug]

Or he could get a wand of shillalagh. Amazingly enough, monks do have UMD. Has he been putting ranks in it?

UMD is a cross-class skill for monks.

[Gnaeus]

UMD is a cross-class skill for monks.

And he has a bad charisma.


If your caster is willing to help grab Greater mighty Wallop from races of the dragon (L3 sorc/wiz spell) and give him 1hr/lvl weapon size increment on his fists (+1 size category /4 caster levels) that should bring his DPS into line nicely.

Their arcane casters are a bard/dragon disciple and a rogue/sorcerer/arcane archer. I'm guessing the Sorc doesn't have that on his list and has his own problems.