Creating Your Own Spells

[Cranthis]

Has anyone found rules for this? I can't seem to find any in my books.

If there are no rules, what are your opinions on it?

Edit: This thread pertains to the creation of spells in game, and out of game. I would like to hear thoughts on both

[thriceborn]

Creating New Spells is in the DMG page 198. Under that exact header. I'm researching a version of Enlarge person that can be used at touch range to enlarge more than one person per round, same with the +4 buff spells, without using the mass version, basically make them touch range but with creature(s) instead of making them singular.

[Cranthis]

Creating New Spells is in the DMG page 198. Under that exact header. I'm researching a version of Enlarge person that can be used at touch range to enlarge more than one person per round, same with the +4 buff spells, without using the mass version, basically make them touch range but with creature(s) instead of making them singular.

I am aware of that, but that pertains to making the spell out of game. I mean, for example, a Wizard wants to leave his mark on the world of arcane study, so he decides to make his own spell.

[thriceborn]

I am aware of that, but that pertains to making the spell out of game. I mean, for example, a Wizard wants to leave his mark on the world of arcane study, so he decides to make his own spell.

I... I don't see what you're asking. He makes his spell, teaches it to other people, and names it after himself. What you're asking is in-game stuff... how it affects the in game world. At least that's how I'm reading it. And many of the rules show what you have to do in game to make the spell.

[navar100]

I am aware of that, but that pertains to making the spell out of game. I mean, for example, a Wizard wants to leave his mark on the world of arcane study, so he decides to make his own spell.

That falls under campaign plot point. Bigby, Tenser, Mordenkainen, Melf, etc., were the names of player characters used by the creators of D&D and their players. Your wizard, Mikal The Magnificent can only have his spell Mikal's Magnificent McGuffin be known and valued world wide in the game world you're playing in by DM fiat of having it become known to spellcasters as the game progresses. A succeeding campaign can have it be world-wide known then. My group's campaign, a campaign in Timbuktu, a campaign in Moscow, will have never even heard of Mikal let alone know his spell.

[therakishrogue]

I've never encountered any rules for in-game spell creation in d20. There were some in 2nd edition though. It was similar to it's way of dealing with item creation; you had to acquire materials related to the spell you were making in order to create it. Like a roc feather quill, parchment made from demon skin, and ink made out of blood from a behir for a spell that would summon a fiendish storm elemental. No strict mechanics though.

[Cranthis]

I've never encountered any rules for in-game spell creation in d20. There were some in 2nd edition though. It was similar to it's way of dealing with item creation; you had to acquire materials related to the spell you were making in order to create it. Like a roc feather quill, parchment made from demon skin, and ink made out of blood from a behir for a spell that would summon a fiendish storm elemental. No strict mechanics though.

I know, thats why I also asked what other people think you should need to do.

[Gamer Girl]

1.You generally go by the Core spells for benchmarks. Look at the levels and powers and effects to see where a new spell would go.

2.Keep your spell in the rules. Spell effect allow saves and target creatures and such. So making a spell that effects targets only if they make a save is a bad idea.

3.The easy test is: if the spell is so good that you can't imagine casting it all the time, then the spell is too good. If the spell is so bad you'd never cast it, it's too bad.

[Acanous]

The spell creation rules are rather specific for damage-dealing spells. The non-damaging, toolbox spells are harder to judge. I remember I once made the lv 4 Bard spell "Montage" that lets you do any mundane activity (Retraining, crafting, research, etc) in rounds instead of days, so long as you stay within a 30 ft radius. No magical affects can be created or adjusted by Montage. (So no magic item crafting, or using it to cast Legend Lore or something) Lasts as long as the bard concentrates/continues to play, to a max of one round/2 levels.

What, exactly are you trying to make?

[Cranthis]

What, exactly are you trying to make?

Nothing. At least not yet. I just kind of had a random thought, and it lead to a train of thoughts, and the DMG rules for this aren't in-game specific. It doesn't present the actual in game process of someone creating there own spell.

[Acanous]

Oh!
Well, for that, it's pretty much the same as researching a spell. Wizard takes some time, some GP, buys supplies and gets to craftin'. Then, after the experimenting is done, they make a spellcraft check with DC appropriate to the spell level. If that succeeds, bam. You have a new spell.

[Cranthis]

Oh!
Well, for that, it's pretty much the same as researching a spell. Wizard takes some time, some GP, buys supplies and gets to craftin'. Then, after the experimenting is done, they make a spellcraft check with DC appropriate to the spell level. If that succeeds, bam. You have a new spell.

Too simple. We need a mathematical way to do it, based on spell level. I'm working on an equation now.

[Flickerdart]

Why does there need to be an equation? This is basically homebrew. The system doesn't need to have a one size fits all solution, because introducing any homebrew into a game depends on the presiding DM.

[Cranthis]

Why does there need to be an equation? This is basically homebrew. The system doesn't need to have a one size fits all solution, because introducing any homebrew into a game depends on the presiding DM.

Exactly. My dm says I can design spells, but I need to come up with the math for what it would take.

[TuggyNE]

Why does there need to be an equation? This is basically homebrew. The system doesn't need to have a one size fits all solution, because introducing any homebrew into a game depends on the presiding DM.

To expand on that: there is no formal framework designed to even vaguely approximate the power level of a spell, feat, class, or really much of anything except perhaps monsters and magic items (and both of those have substantial problems in practice). So balancing any of those things requires a lot of (often subjective) judgment, comparison to similar existing things, and so forth. If there was a universal formula for "here's how spells are put together", you can bet it would be immensely abusable, or else it wouldn't be compatible with existing spells, or else it would be absurdly complex. (The rules for Epic Spells, naturally, fit into the first category.)

Once you've researched a suitable spell, though, I don't see what you're asking: you have a spell, it exists in the world in the form of an entry in your spellbook, others can learn it from you, and so forth. What more do you want?
Edit: OK, this has been elucidated:
Exactly. My dm says I can design spells, but I need to come up with the math for what it would take.

But there really isn't any such math besides the very basic Spellcraft DCs, and trying to figure it out is more a project for a dedicated team developing a new system.
Edit 2: Bah, misunderstood you again. Hmmm. I know I've seen the rules for this, but I'm having trouble finding them again.

[Cranthis]

To expand on that: there is no formal framework designed to even vaguely approximate the power level of a spell, feat, class, or really much of anything except perhaps monsters and magic items (and both of those have substantial problems in practice). So balancing any of those things requires a lot of (often subjective) judgment, comparison to similar existing things, and so forth. If there was a universal formula for "here's how spells are put together", you can bet it would be immensely abusable, or else it wouldn't be compatible with existing spells, or else it would be absurdly complex. (The rules for Epic Spells, naturally, fit into the first category.)

Once you've researched a suitable spell, though, I don't see what you're asking: you have a spell, it exists in the world in the form of an entry in your spellbook, others can learn it from you, and so forth. What more do you want?

I want to be able to do it in my game. My dm said I could make spells, only if I presented some math for it. The math isn't for the exact power level, just for costs and times.

[TuggyNE]

I want to be able to do it in my game. My dm said I could make spells, only if I presented some math for it. The math isn't for the exact power level, just for costs and times.

OK, I'm AFB, but apparently the PHB indicates the cost as roughly 1000 gp/week, 1 week per level of the spell, and a Spellcraft check with a DC of 10 + spell level, made at the end of the process. (Why this is not in the SRD I do not know.)

[Roncorps]

OK, I'm AFB, but apparently the PHB indicates the cost as roughly 1000 gp/week, 1 week per level of the spell, and a Spellcraft check with a DC of 10 + spell level, made at the end of the process. (Why this is not in the SRD I do not know.)

So a 9 level spell cost 1000*9 = 9000 GP and a Spellcraft check of 19 for 2 month + 1 week of work ? I am not the only one seeing something not working here ?

[Cranthis]

That is only researching an existing spell I believe.

[Roncorps]

I got that, you could adapt it : Developing Epic Spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/developingEpicSpells.htm)

[Cranthis]

I've got that, you could adapt it : Developing Epic Spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/developingEpicSpells.htm)

Excellent! One of the few books I don't have is the epic level handbook, which I assume is the source. I have almost every other book. Just not that one.

[Roncorps]

DMG 3.5 page 35 got info about creating new spells, but it is more a guideline than mathematical formulas.

[thriceborn]

That is only researching an existing spell I believe.

The page 198 of the DMG is about researching original spells. 35 is aboiut what classes should get what spells, or that they would begood at,

[TuggyNE]

That is only researching an existing spell I believe.

I don't believe the distinction is made in the text; after all, whether or not a spell has ever existed before, if you have to piece it together from first principles it still takes a long time to work it out. (If you can copy the finished notes, naturally, that's much simpler, and that's covered differently.)

I do, however, agree that the DC in particular is wonky. You might fix it to scale at 10 + 2*level, or something like that.

[Sith_Happens]

I got that, you could adapt it : Developing Epic Spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/developingEpicSpells.htm)

Please note: The link presented is a perfect example of why having hard and fast rules for custom spell creation doesn't work.

[Cranthis]

I don't believe the distinction is made in the text; after all, whether or not a spell has ever existed before, if you have to piece it together from first principles it still takes a long time to work it out. (If you can copy the finished notes, naturally, that's much simpler, and that's covered differently.)

I do, however, agree that the DC in particular is wonky. You might fix it to scale at 10 + 2*level, or something like that.

Thats almost what I did. I put it at 15 + 1 1/2 *spell level, rounded up.

[Arcanist]

Excellent! One of the few books I don't have is the epic level handbook, which I assume is the source. I have almost every other book. Just not that one.

Here is an adjustment I'm trying to work on to set in stone the Spell creation rules... Kill me if you don't like them :smallannoyed:


All minute casting is reduced to a standard action
Remove and adjust certain factors. More specifically remove the permanent factor, set spells loyal to caster level, remove quickened casting time factor remove contingent activation, remove DC and SR increase, Remove ritual, backlash and XP components
Casting time can only be increased in rounds to a maximum of 10 rounds with each round decreasing it by 10.
Spell has a duration of 1 round/caster level
Finally, when all of this is done you divide the total spell DC by 10 and add 1 to the total to determine it's level.
If the spells total DC result


A faulty system we made I know, but eh... It set a ground rule to whatever we were doing. Obviously if a spell was to result in being a 10th or higher spell it was automatically banned :smalltongue: