(PF) Weapon size categories and damage

[Hunter Noventa]

So, my current campaign has run into a point where, through a bizarre combination of psionics and homebrew content, my character's weapon will be increasing by 16 size categories for a round, and then go down to 11 afterwards.

The effects involved allow me to ignore things like the weapon being too heavy (which would apply anyway really since it's a Mind Blade).

So the problem is...how much damage does this thing do? It starts at 1d6, being a light mind blade, but there are no charts anywhere that seem to have a progression with a noticable pattern, except for one we found in Dragonmech (something else we're pulling material from) for really big weapons for mechs, where it seems to go 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 etc. That would put it at 6d8 for 11 increases, and 9d6 for 16. Does that sound right for a weapon that will effectively replicate this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVjJkYyMbLA&t=1m44s)

[grarrrg]

There is a Druid Spell called Strong Jaw (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/strong-jaw) (includes handy Damage/Size chart!)
It treats a creature's Natural Weapons as being +2 Size categories for Damage.
It says "If the creature is already Gargantuan or Colossal-sized, double the amount of damage dealt by each of its natural attacks instead"
This means that every TWO Size increases DOUBLES the damage.
NOTE: Follow normal Weapon Damage progression until you get as far as you can, as the "+2 size > Double damage" does not work at smaller sizes.

[herrhauptmann]

Pathfinder has a chart lying around somewhere, which is I think identical to the 3.5 chart.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm
Shortswords: 1d6 1d8 2d6 3d6 4d6

However, after a certain point, you're just adding d6's.
So greatsword goes: 2d6 3d6 4d6 6d6 8d6...
Take a look at the pattern of d6's...
Twice you increase by 1d6.
Then you increase by 2d6 twice.
I think it would next be a 4d6 increase, twice.
1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6, 16d6
Next it would either be 6d6 increases(increment the changes by 2. 22d6, 28d6) or 8d6 increases (double the size of the change, 24d6, 32d6). That's 10 increases right there.

Yeah, it looks pretty absurd either way. I think after a while, you should just deal out average damage, and only roll dice when you crit. Doing otherwise would really slow down the game, especially if you don't have >forty d6. And god forbid you make multiple attacks...

[Hunter Noventa]

Pathfinder has a chart lying around somewhere, which is I think identical to the 3.5 chart.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm
Shortswords: 1d6 1d8 2d6 3d6 4d6

However, after a certain point, you're just adding d6's.
So greatsword goes: 2d6 3d6 4d6 6d6 8d6...
Take a look at the pattern of d6's...
Twice you increase by 1d6.
Then you increase by 2d6 twice.
I think it would next be a 4d6 increase, twice.
1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6, 16d6
Next it would either be 6d6 increases(increment the changes by 2. 22d6, 28d6) or 8d6 increases (double the size of the change, 24d6, 32d6). That's 10 increases right there.

Yeah, it looks pretty absurd either way. I think after a while, you should just deal out average damage, and only roll dice when you crit. Doing otherwise would really slow down the game, especially if you don't have >forty d6. And god forbid you make multiple attacks...

The average amount of dice rolled at the table has surpassed that of Shadowrun, so much that we're all using some from of electronic die roller. This is just the weapon damage too, there's all sorts of other bonus damage going on, but that seems like a reasonable progression.

[herrhauptmann]

The average amount of dice rolled at the table has surpassed that of Shadowrun, so much that we're all using some from of electronic die roller. This is just the weapon damage too, there's all sorts of other bonus damage going on, but that seems like a reasonable progression.

Ok, I gotta ask, how/why are you guys using that many dice? Is this one of those games that takes place at level 50+, or higher?

Also, this size-changing homebrew, would you be able to post that and the character build? I'm really curious to see how you did this, since the closest I've gotten was Colossal++++ or so (endarires stone dragon discipline with a half-minotaur template, strongarm bracers, gold weapon, 8 levels in psy-war). And no, never did actualy get to play the character at that level.

[grarrrg]

1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6, 16d6

... that seems like a reasonable progression.

I'd just like to jump in and point out that what he took the time to extrapolate and figure out is exactly the same results as "Strong Jaw" increases...every +2 Sizes doubles the damage (after the first few times).

So 16 size increases, all d6's, except for the one d8
0. 1
+1. 1d8
+2. 2
+3. 3
+4. 4
+5. 6
+6. 8
+7. 12
+8. 16
+9. 24
+10. 32
+11. 48
+12. 64
+13. 96
+14. 128
+15. 192
+16. 256d6's of damage.

Minimum of 256 (duh), max of 1536, 896 on average.

[herrhauptmann]

I'd just like to jump in and point out that what he took the time to extrapolate and figure out is exactly the same results as "Strong Jaw" increases...every +2 Sizes doubles the damage (after the first few times).

But strong jaw has some weird things.
The medium 1d6 attacks become 2d6, 2d8, 4d6 for bites and several others.
Weapon attacks don't go in the same progression. 2d6, 3d6, 4d6.

[grarrrg]

But strong jaw has some weird things.
The medium 1d6 attacks become 2d6, 2d8, 4d6 for bites and several others.
Weapon attacks don't go in the same progression. 2d6, 3d6, 4d6.

I was referring to the logic, not the table.
The logic still holds true, even if the damage progression is...less so.
Besides, Strong Jaw is the only Official Ruling on _any_ 'super-mega-ginourmous' size increases.
Trust me, I've looked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245496).

FUN FACT TIME: If you Google "gonna need a bigger boat" that thread is #4 in the results!


For added "fun" compare the Strong Jaw table to the 3.5 Weapon table, to the "Improved Natural Attack Progression" feat, compared to a Summoner's Eidolon Attack/Size scaling.
You get about 4 different results...