Anti-Casting Combo's (3.5 and PF)

[Karoht]

So I recently came across the feat Parry Spell in Pathfinder.
Requirements are Spellcraft 15 ranks and the Improved Counterspelling feat.
If one succeeds at countering a spell, the spell is then reflected on the caster as per the Spell Turning spell.

I wondered how well this would combo up/synergize with a Ring of Spell Battle from the Spell Compendium (3.5) which allows for one to make a spellcraft check, and if it successfully identifies the spell being cast, one can then cast Dispel Magic as an Immediate Action.

And then I thought to myself, I'm sure there are plenty of anti-casting combo's out there. While this one comes online at level 15, there are probably earlier combo's or better ones. I barely know of a few of the Dispel Magic based items and feats, and there must be other methods.

We will treat 'Anti-Casting Combo' to have a very loose definition for the purpose of this discussion. However, let's assume that killing the caster outright (Barbarian with Pounce, Axe to the Face) to not be an Anti-Casting Combo, just to keep things clear.

[Gavinfoxx]

Have you read this?

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871214/Dispelling_38;_Counterspelling_Compilation

I don't know what a counterspelling handbook for PF or 3.PF would look like though; that's just a 3.5e one.

[Sgt. Cookie]

I don't know if this is what you're after, but a Dread Barbarian (It's a Barbraian with the feats from Frostburn and Sandstorm that give it the fire and cold subtypes, with the Symbiote template (SS), using a Dread Blossom Swarm as the other creature.) is either flat out untargetable or only takes non-lethal damage. Or is immune, in the case of Fire and Cold.

At ECL 2. Cheesy? Wallace would gorge himself to death.

[Karoht]

Have you read this?

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871214/Dispelling_38;_Counterspelling_Compilation

I don't know what a counterspelling handbook for PF or 3.PF would look like though; that's just a 3.5e one.Ooooh, excellent resource. I'll have to check that out later. Many thanks.


I don't know if this is what you're after, but a Dread Barbarian (It's a Barbraian with the feats from Frostburn and Sandstorm that give it the fire and cold subtypes, with the Symbiote template (SS), using a Dread Blossom Swarm as the other creature.) is either flat out untargetable or only takes non-lethal damage. Or is immune, in the case of Fire and Cold.

At ECL 2. Cheesy? Wallace would gorge himself to death.Being immune to magic is one thing, but that doesn't stop the caster from casting a spell, perhaps at one of your friends.
Still a good combo though.

[Talionis]

Mad Alchemist comes online with BAB 6, it lets you use your craft (Alchemy) score to counter spells. It's pretty easy to get super high skill checks. Just ready to throw a Thunderstone.

[Gavinfoxx]

Being immune to magic is one thing

The thing is, there isn't a single statted out enemy that is immune to magic in the game. NOTHING is immune to the correct application of magic in D&D...

Don't believe me? Read this thread...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256950

[Karoht]

Mad Alchemist comes online with BAB 6, it lets you use your craft (Alchemy) score to counter spells. It's pretty easy to get super high skill checks. Just ready to throw a Thunderstone.
That is pretty clever. I like it.


The thing is, there isn't a single statted out enemy that is immune to magic in the game. NOTHING is immune to the correct application of magic in D&D...

Don't believe me? Read this thread...
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256950
My point exactly. Being "Immune" is awesome and all, but it's not that big a stumbling block for all casters. Again, being immune or semi-immune to spells just means someone else in your party gets targeted instead of you.
You're immune to my bag of tricks? Let's see if your friends are!

[Glimbur]

I don't know if this is what you're after, but a Dread Barbarian (It's a Barbraian with the feats from Frostburn and Sandstorm that give it the fire and cold subtypes, with the Symbiote template (SS), using a Dread Blossom Swarm as the other creature.) is either flat out untargetable or only takes non-lethal damage. Or is immune, in the case of Fire and Cold.

At ECL 2. Cheesy? Wallace would gorge himself to death.

There is still a way around that: Searing Spell (Sandstorm) will do fire damage even to people immune to fire. Piercing Cold (Frostburn) might not work on people with the [cold] subtype, I'm too lazy to check.

Does pathfinder do psionics? Specifically Synchronicity linked with something swift to activate, because the action economy is for little people. One of the uses of this is readying a dispel while still being proactive also.

[Gavinfoxx]

You're immune to my bag of tricks? Let's see if your friends are!

I was mostly making the point that it is very, very easy to get a bag of tricks that it is QUITE difficult for any 'immune' creature to truly be immune to. So that targeting allies isn't necessary; you can still target the creature that has put lots of effort into becoming 'immune'.

[Snowbluff]

Master Abjurer 10 + AMF + Extraordinary Spell Aim = I make Antimagic Ray cry.

[Sgt. Cookie]

There is still a way around that: Searing Spell (Sandstorm) will do fire damage even to people immune to fire. Piercing Cold (Frostburn) might not work on people with the [cold] subtype, I'm too lazy to check.

Nope. Piercing Cold does not affect creatures with the [cold] subtype. The wording though makes me think searing spell is meant to have the same clause.

And yes, I already knew about Searing Spell, it was brought up in the discusion.

[Karoht]

I was mostly making the point that it is very, very easy to get a bag of tricks that it is QUITE difficult for any 'immune' creature to truly be immune to. So that targeting allies isn't necessary; you can still target the creature that has put lots of effort into becoming 'immune'.Agreed. At that point the caster in question needs to put typically less effort in bipassing the immunity, or just targets something else because it's less effort.
Most casters work with a mindset of 'path of least resistance.'
Why beat your head against a wall, when you can just bulldoze a different wall?

[Gavinfoxx]

Agreed. At that point the caster in question needs to put typically less effort in bipassing the immunity, or just targets something else because it's less effort.
Most casters work with a mindset of 'path of least resistance.'
Why beat your head against a wall, when you can just bulldoze a different wall?

Uhhh... bypassing immunities IS the path of least resistance. Summons, Callings, magical walls, battlefield control spells, orb of force... this sort of thing isn't hard...

A Wall of Stone will work perfectly well on a Golem that is immune to all forms of elemental damage, has 'magic immunity' (ie, infinite sr), and is projecting an antimagic field. Just like a creature called by Planar Binding three days ago will work fine on it by hitting it. Just like an Orb of Force will work on it. Etc. etc.

[Karoht]

Uhhh... bypassing immunities IS the path of least resistance. Summons, Callings, magical walls, battlefield control spells, orb of force... this sort of thing isn't hard...

A Wall of Stone will work perfectly well on a Golem that is immune to all forms of elemental damage, has 'magic immunity' (ie, infinite sr), and is projecting an antimagic field. Just like a creature called by Planar Binding three days ago will work fine on it by hitting it. Just like an Orb of Force will work on it. Etc. etc. Correct, but if the appropriate tool isn't to hand (stuff happens) most will just opt to target the non-immune target/s.
And the point we are both making is that the 'immunity/s' don't really stop the caster in the first place because they usually will have the correct tools to hand if they are any good at what they do. Thus, I believe we both agree (and did so from the start) that the immunity/s are not really an anti-casting combo, right?


I had a question about Dispel Magic, but I think it is likely to come up in that Dispel Magic guide linked earlier.