What do you think of the Martial Artist?

[Tyger]

The Martial Artist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/tripod-machine/martial-artist) is a third party release under the Pathfinder system. One of my players has recently asked about playing one and for some reason this class has raised my balance alarms.

Now, before anyone says anything, the game is a no-magic, tier three and below only game, with some houserules that aren't applicable here. The other characters are a Scout, a Knight, a Factotum (without access to spells yet) and a Rogue.

In short, the game is set in G.R.R. Martin's Westeros, and magic may begin to trickle in as the game progresses, much like the books, but it will be VERY limited and EXTREMELY rare. So comparisons of this class to wizards, clerics and druids are really not helpful - I would be the first to agree that in an "ordinary" game, this class wouldn't be even close to a problem, hell I'd probably want to beef it up again.

But this seems to take the best of the monk (which sucks), tosses in the best of the fighter (which sucks), a dash of rogue, a splash of barbarian, and a few other perks (that 1/2 level to damage is big in this game, where there are no magical ways to increase damage) that seem to notch it up a bit.

I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts on this class.

[Andreaz]

"No magic" and "tier 3 and below" pretty much mean "tier 4 and below", actually, and this class is still that.
It's pretty much a fighter, and I think fighters still do better than that.

If you guys want true T3 classes there, I seriously recommend porting over ToB.
Guidelines: replace concentration with perception or autohypnosis. The Trip line now uses "the sum of str and dex mods(min +0 each)" instead of letting you pick. And... I think that's it.

[Tyger]

Yeah, one of the existing characters is a Swordsage - he is looking at this Martial Artist class for his "replacement" character - we've discussed how lethal the game has the potential to be with no magical healing and no resurrection spells. So ToB is certainly in, though the players are not taking any of the Su abilities some stances and maneuvers grant.

[Psyren]

Remember, what matters most is not so much what you can do, but what the monsters can do and how you can respond. If you're in Westeros (or an analogue thereof), then it's likely a low-magic high-intrigue setting - thus it won't matter so much that you aren't walking artillery since the enemy won't be either.

In short, tier doesn't matter as much if you're unlikely to encounter e.g. oozes, giants or dragons. Your one big problem might be Undead; taking a low-tier class past the Wall might be a good way to get dead.

[StreamOfTheSky]

It doesn't look overpowered at all, even in a game such as you describe.

Also, am I reading it correctly? You could choose a bow as your chosen weapon and get +1/2 level to damage with it, along with the small attack bonus at 5/9/13/17? Wonder if it's intentional, but this actually looks like an amazing archer class. Oh, and you can use ki for extra attacks like with a Zen Archer. Even the Unarmed Strike and Dodge feats are useful, for having a melee option and qualifying for Crane Wing.

[Urpriest]

Boosting damage shouldn't be a huge problem. If you're going for a SoIaF feel, combat is going to be fast and deadly anyway. Having a slightly higher damage curve than the other classes won't change that.

[Tyger]

Good points all. Thanks for soothing my bump of trouble there. Much appreciated.