Designing Shock Troops

[Arcnsparc]

I am designing some troops for the party to fight (with or against, we will see) and I could use some input. These troops are from a fairly large and powerful country so it should be assumed that they are optimized. Here are my starting points and assumptions about the troops:

They are warriors level 2-10
Their country has a very good system in place for cost reduction of magic items.
The troops will be either crossbowmen, infantry, or mage (mages would rely more on magic items than actual ability).
Magic items used by the troops would not be able to be used by the PCs.


So far I have an okay start but I could use some advice on special abilities and general 'buffing' of the enemy. The crossbowmen can fireball 1/day and use light at will like a flashlight. I have no idea what would make a good infantry special ability or what spell like abilities to give to mages. Any ideas?

[Gavinfoxx]

Why are you using the Warrior class to do this? Why not some Warrior and some Fighter? Fighter is already pretty much an NPC class anyway...

Or why not some multiclassing so they are actually competent at a particular capability?

Why level 10 characters for 'troops'? Why not characters that are a bit more optimized, but are level 6ish?

[Erik von Nein]

This is what I used once for an army. Yeah, they've got PC levels but you can mix and match, I suppose. Might give you some decent ideas, at least.

26 4th Level Fighter
1st line Defense
Str: 13
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 10
Will: 12
Cha: 9

HP: 32
12
Initiative: +2
Attacks: Short sword -- AB +5 -- 1d6+1 -- 19-20/x2
AC: 20 (outside shield wall/Phalanx/Armed), 28 (Inside Shield wall/Phalanx/Armed), 33 (Inside shield wall/Phalanx w/Total defense/Armed), Touch 19 (22 in shield wall/Phalanx), FF 17 (21 in shield wall/Phalanx)
DR: 2/-
BAB/Grap: +4/+5

Saves: Fort +6, Ref +2 (+3 inside Phalanx), Will +1

Feats: Shield Wall, Phalanx Fighting, Parrying Shield, Shield Mate, Shield Slam, Improved Shield Mate, Block Arrow

18 4th level fighter/1st Ferocity Barbarian
2nd line Offense

Str: 15
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 13
Will: 10
Cha: 9

HP: 40
Initiative: +2
Attacks: Halberd +7 AB -- 1d10+2 -- 20/x3 Light Crossbow -- AB +4 -- 1d8 -- 19-20/x2
AC: 15 (+2 Armor, +3 armed), touch 11, FF 12
DR: 2/-
BAB/Grap: +5/+7
Saves: +6, +2, +1
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Stand Still
Class Features: Ferocity (+4 str/dex, immediate action)


14 4th level fighter /2nd WF Barbarian
3rd line Ranged Attacks
Str: 12
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 10
Will: 12
Cha: 9

HP: 54
Initiative: +2
Attacks: MW Light Crossbow -- AB +9 -- 3d10 -- 19-20/x2 OR Shortsword -- AB +7 -- 1d6+1 -- 19-20/x2
AC: 14 (+2 dex, +2 Armor)/19 (+4 Armed, +2 Dex, +2 Armor), touch 12, FF 12
DR: 2/-
BAB/Grap: +6/+7
Saves: +7, +3, +2
Skills
Balance: 7 (6 ranks, 2 AbMod)
Climb: 10 (9 ranks, 1 AbMod)
Heal: 10 (9 ranks, 1 AbMod)
Prof (sailor): 10 (9 ranks, 1 AbMod)
Swim: 10 (9 ranks, 1 AbMod)

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Coordinated Shot (Enemies do not gain cover from allies), Readied Shot (+3d6 for readied shots), Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Far Shot
Class Features: Whirling Frenzy 1/day, Uncanny Dodge

[Lost in books]

Magical standards come to mind and it fits your flavor. Every platoon should have their own with spells that enhance their specific abilities.

In the same token your front lines should have one area offensive item, i.e. horn of blasting etc.

It is hard to justify magical items that can't be used by the PCs especially with UMD uses. But you could make it hard for them to use and following the game mechanics. For example: All the items have been crafted with a 24 hour attunement requirement, a "platoon affiliation" requirement, or a trap where someone not authorized to hold the item suffers X,Y or Z effect.

Of course this scenario implies sooooo much money from a kingdom that it could be used much more efficiently. Think of that scene from the batman movie where they inspected the "spelunking" suit, that would have made the army incredibly tough and survivable, but the government was not willing to spend so much money on one foot soldier :)

[Medic!]

Depending on your party and how much you hate them, (and depending on the nation's general alignment and views on expendability of troops for victory) you could infest each of them with a necrotic cyst (or just some of 'em, keep it really scary) and when one's about to go down, a mage explodes them with necrotic erruption (6th lvl spell) or necrotic burst (5th level spell) :smallamused:

The necrotic stuff is in Libris Mortis if you're unfamiliar with it, but essentially you could turn a few low level front liners into suicide bombers with a high level mage supporting.

[Slipperychicken]

The necrotic stuff is in Libris Mortis if you're unfamiliar with it, but essentially you could turn a few low level front liners into suicide bombers with a high level mage supporting.

What better way to inspire morale in the troops than have them watch each other explode in disgusting unholy death energy?

[Azoth]

Personally I would change the crossbowmen to archers so that you can take advantage of the various special arrows in RotW and the A&EG as well as MIC. I have had great success using them as skirmisher groups when they have had time to set up a battlefield. Thundering arrow barrages at the group to force multiple DC15 saves against deafness for an hour. Hollow shaft arrows filled with oil followed by dragon breath arrows for impromptu walls of fire. Serpent tongue arrows to cut ropes for traps or collapse tent riggings. Even fountain head arrows making acid geysers to mess up plans. Used wisely they take on an almost tucker's cobold feel.

Arcane casters bring the buff and boom. Shape spell metamagic turns even suboptimal blasts that can wreck the allies into major headaches. 4 10' cubes of grease, for fliers how about turning that fireball into a column and getting their ground support too.

The same can go for divine casters. Sculpted entangle anyone? A few dedicated healers can do wonders. Even just using sacred healing can keep someone going. 1 TU attempt for fast healing 3 for 1+cha mod rounds in a 60' burst.

Mele monsters going with the beautiful halberd or shocktrooper lines. Throw in a few highly mobile sneak attackers...gotta love spell thief for this. Run by, tag the mage, take one of his highest level spells and keep on running. Hell, even if he dies...he more than did his part.

[Jeff the Green]

What better way to inspire morale in the troops than have them watch each other explode in disgusting unholy death energy?

On the other hand, it might inspire them to fight harder so they don't end up exploded.

[herrhauptmann]

What better way to inspire morale in the troops than have them watch each other explode in disgusting unholy death energy?

Maybe save it for the throw-away troops? You know, the guys that were languishing at the deepest level of the dungeon while the king decided how he wanted to execute them (not if he wanted them dead, but how).
For them, they fight because it means they're not in prison. Maybe a promise that if they serve well enough and live, they'll get a pardon.
Whether they know about the cyst or not, that's your decision.

If you read/watch Berserk, think of the Black Dog Knights that pursue Guts and Co right before the Eclipse.


edit:
Anyway, I think the OP means 'warrior type' when he says warriors.
Split it up into unit types.
Mounted cavalry.
Shieldmen. Think roman legions. Often your least experienced men, a shield and a shortsword, with a month of training. Probably conscripts/farmers. Veteran units: lots of teamwork feats and shield specializations.
Landsknecht. Two handed weapons. When shieldwalls became static, they rushed to the line and made a breakthrough. Combat brute and/or shocktrooper is a good choice, perhaps they only power attack a little, keeping enough AC (not being too reckless) that they weren't easy pickings for the conscript/new recruit shieldmen. I add that for realism, because experienced, sane troops don't make it that easy to hit them (drop their AC to zero).
Skirmishers. Mounted or on foot, your choice.
Archers. Nonmagical archers would be death to shieldmen. Archers with magic of some sort (perhaps arcane archer prc) would be more of artillery type. Or held in reserve for the places where most needed.
Magical. Lots of uses for magic troops. Buff/debuff. Raining fiery death from above. Battlefield control. A Dragon magazine, the first one in 3.0, had 'war magic.' Took a feat, and the spells were variations on regular spells. Like a war magic missile. 5 missiles per CL, 1 missile per target. Could only be used if the field had been well inspected/analyzed by the mage beforehand. So good for defensive fights, but useless for when you're creeping through a dungeon, fighting in a different room every 20 minutes.

[Zahhak]

OK, if you're going with Shock troops, you want barbarians. Shock Infantry is used to run quickly to the enemy front or flanks, cause a massive amount of damage/confusion very quickly, and then when the medium to heavy infantry arrive they back off, re-organize, and hit the enemy rear, or just call it a day. Rage and increased move speed are good for these things.

But you seem to be working more towards a more traditional medium infantry-based army. Raw recruits who are planning on doing a short term of service realistically only be a warrior. They'll probably make up the bulk of any army unless they were an elite force of some kind, in which case their lowest guys would be fighters or paladins. Your archers will have little to no armor, medium infantry will have probably a chain shirt for armor and a long sword. I'd say your best bet for feats are weapon focus for primary weapons

[Slipperychicken]

On the other hand, it might inspire them to fight harder so they don't end up exploded.

Why don't you just cast the spell on some immobile creature (like a tied-up chicken that costs 2cp), have a grenadier throw it into the fray, then let the caster detonate it remotely? Two days of our would-be suicide-bombers' wages could buy us 10 such chickens, not counting the string needed to bind the chicken. Now that I think about it, you could probably just cast the spell on a bug and throw the bugs' container.

The playground really seems to love suicide-bombing with humanoids, even when it can be done much more cheaply (personnel cost money, you know), and without risking sentient life (of allies and employees, I mean).

[TuggyNE]

The playground really seems to love suicide-bombing with humanoids, even when it can be done much more cheaply (personnel cost money, you know), and without risking sentient life (of allies and employees, I mean).

Because EEEEEeevil! :smallsigh:

Yeah, I dunno why that is.

[herrhauptmann]

Because EEEEEeevil! :smallsigh:

Yeah, I dunno why that is.

Because killing chickens with necrotic cysts means you might have to answer to PETA, and not even Insane Evil Overlords want any part of that fight. :smalltongue:
But killing human(oid)s? That's fair game.

[ravagerofworlds]

I agree with Zahhak-> Warriors are the way to go. Remember, PC classes are extraordinary persons with elite training. Your version of Navy Seals would have levels of Warrior 1/Fighter X/Rogue X. But shock troops?

Remember that shock troops aid another all the time. My players dreaded Stormtroopers in my Star Wars d20 games because... of Aid Another. Troops work together... whether it is the Roman Legionairres, or the Grecian Phalanx, a WWI era infantry unit... make use of "Aid Another," particularly with ranged weapons. 4 Warriors help the prime warrior, adding +8 to the unit's attack roll with shortbows. Even at Warrior 1 (+1 BAB, +1 Dex), that means +10 to attack, which is problematic for at least 8th level characters.

Now take that unit of 5, and multiply it by 20 units spread across a large battlemap.

You might want to look into some of the mass combat systems for d20 if your shock troops are an entire army.

But remember... levels 1-3 is the norm for like 95% of a society's population.

[TuggyNE]

Remember that shock troops aid another all the time. My players dreaded Stormtroopers in my Star Wars d20 games because... of Aid Another. Troops work together... whether it is the Roman Legionairres, or the Grecian Phalanx, a WWI era infantry unit... make use of "Aid Another," particularly with ranged weapons. 4 Warriors help the prime warrior, adding +8 to the unit's attack roll with shortbows.

Star Wars d20 lets you make ranged Aid Anothers? (3.5 does not.)

[Slipperychicken]

4 Warriors help the prime warrior, adding +8 to the unit's attack roll with shortbows.

I just have this mental image of a dude with a shortbow standing there with 4 guys peering over his shoulder, yelling "You're not holding the bow properly! Straighten that back!" "You're aiming too high, and he's a little to the left!".


And don't forget the DMG2 Mob template. Keeps those lvl1 NPCs really threatening until mid levels. Especially if they get a Grapple in (+34 Grapple mod, automatic 5d6/round, slowly bludgeon you to death) :smalleek:

[herrhauptmann]

Star Wars d20 lets you make ranged Aid Anothers? (3.5 does not.)

It takes a feat, but you can do it.

But yeah, he's right. Aid another actions for your shieldman.
Aid ally attack
Hinder enemy attack
Aid ally defense
Hinder enemy attack.
Don't think you can perform all 4 for an aid another. But given the choice, I'd hinder an enemies offense/defense. Aiding an allies attack is uselss if enemy focus fires on the boosted guy with a +8 attack and drops him before his turn. Ditto boosting his defense, useless if enemy attacks someone else.

[ravagerofworlds]

Yeah, in Star Wars d20 (not legacy, I never got those books), you can have up to 5 people in a single group aiding another (Stormtroopers have bad aim, but 4 stormtroopers firing at the same target, in a line with each other, tends to make Han Solo and Luke Skywalker flee). Still, I was laughing at the "words of encouragement scenario" proffered by Slipperychicken.

I learned d20 on Star Wars, so the transition to DnD is an interesting and long ordeal; attacks of opportunity differ, because Star Wars is a ranged combat game (a 16th level toon still only does 3d6 blaster pistol damage with each attack).

[ThiagoMartell]

Why do people keep calling their characters toons!!

[Sgt. Cookie]

If you want optimised, Dread Barbarians are vulnerable only to Trollbane and Searing Spell, and an almost identical feat in Frostburn casts doubt on the latter. And when I say vulnerable, I mean able to deal lethal damage.

Requires 3.0 materials, mind.

Remember what was once forgotten...

(If I weren't on my tablet, I'd link you to it properly.)

[Telok]

Formation Expert (CWar p.110), requires BaB +5
Shieldmate (Mini p.28), requires BaB +1
Improved Shieldmate (Mini p.27), requires BaB +4
Phalanx Fighting (CWar p.103), Requires BaB +1 and shield proficiency.

Splint mail, short sword, long spear, heavy shield, five javelins.
Three levels of Warrior and two levels of Fighter.
It's a CR 3 or 4 mook who makes good infantry.

If the rules of your setting don't allow for NPCs over level three then a human Warrior with just Phalanx Fighting and Shieldmate works pretty well.

[Saskia]

Just remember: If all else fails, call in a flame strike.

Seriously, it wouldn't be out of character for a professional army to have a scout tracking the party and he can have cloak/boots of elvenkind and skill focus in hide/move silently which would render him almost invisible unless somebody threw all their money and skill points at spot and listen. Give him a wand of flame strikes and if the party still doesn't find him after they dispatch the rest of the soldiers he can retreat and deliver a report.

If the country has access to heavy equipment for low cost you should also consider throwing an iron or stone golem or something similar into the fight that the "mage" or somebody else can control via mental commands. If the controller falls it should still be able to function on its own, just not as intelligently or efficiently. It should also have a ranged attack of some sort, even if it's only 15-30 feet so that it can at least hit things pinging it from out of reach, maybe powered down scorching ray at-will as a spell-like ability. Somebody needs to have a wand of cure moderate wounds, and a wand of fireballs with a save DC and caster level sufficient to be threatening but not murderous for your party. Rary's telepathic bond between the troops makes tactical action much more precise without flagging the party with the same information.

If you wanted the magic items these guys carry not to be useful for the party you could give them like three or four uses each instead of the normal 50. This would also make the wands of fireballs or flame strikes not nearly as dangerous as they could be, should the players have poor luck with the dice that session. There's even a real incentive to do that from a tactical position, too: This way an army could equip more soldiers with the equipment (since 4 uses would cost less money/xp than 50 uses), not to mention that if your soldiers do die and the enemy gets hold of your equipment you certainly don't want them to have gained a lot of free firepower. This would, if the PCs do get hold of the stuff, make the items at best maybe one or two shot items and thus being mostly useless, instead of some arbitrary assignment that the PCs can't use magical items even with a massive UMD check when that is exactly what UMD is supposed to allow.

[Runestar]

Duskblades would be able to use scrolls/wands of ranged spells like scorching ray. :smallamused:

[Twilightwyrm]

I personally like Barbarian 2/Fighter 1, with quick draw, power attack and hurling charge, or power attack, powerful charge and cleave. This work for low level infantry "shock troopers" in the classical sense. These guys are going to be the first wave in, who wreak havoc in the enemy lines before the standard infantry show up in formation to deal with the chaotic remains. These also double as good forward raiders who disrupt enemy supply networks, and raid enemy farms and villages.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Gnome Fighter 6, Dodge, Titan Fighting, Shield Specialization, Shield Ward, Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, Efficient Defender. Say they visit the Otyugh Hole in CS as a rite of passage to get Iron Will. Trade Ride for Tumble (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a), get skill tricks in CS. Give them magic tattoos that allow them to use Magic Vestment 4/day, Greater Magic Weapon 2/day, and Greater Mighty Wallop 2/day, each at CL 8 for magic-but-not-magic +2 armor, shield, and weapon, and damage as though using a large weapon. Chain Shirt, Lesser or Greater Iron Ward Diamond (MIC); heavy shield, Lesser or Greater Crystal of Arrow Deflection; heavy flail, Lesser or Greater Crystal of Life Drinking (MIC). The augment crystals are permanently attached to the items, they're only active when the item is enhanced by a spell. They're not masterwork items so they can't be upgraded to +1 for the augment crystals to be permanently useful, so their gear is worth no more than the mundane items' base price.

Desert Half-Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs), Half-Humans variant in Races of Destiny p150, Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#orcParagon) 3/ Fighter 4 (staggering levels), Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) sub level, trade Ride for Tumble (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a). Say they visit the Otyugh Hole in CS twice as a rite of passage to get Menacing Demeanor and Extend Rage. Feats are Dreadful Wrath (PGtF), Menacing Demeanor, Skill Focus: Intimidate, Extend Rage, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Imperious Command, Extra Rage, and Intimidating Rage. Get the Never Outnumbered skill trick and anything with Tumble that they can, and of course max ranks in Intimidate. +1 Fearsome (DotU) grafted Breastplate (doesn't hinder movement, isn't removable), Restful Crystal, +1 Brash armor spikes; Falchion, magic tattoos that cast Greater Magic Weapon 2/day and Keen Edge 4/day at CL 8; Mask of Blood with a +5 Competence bonus to Intimidate (MIC, isn't removable; the blood is his own); Healing Blood graft (LoM, comes from a fountain filled with the blood of a slain demon prince that replenishes itself and covers 90% of the cost of this graft).

It's getting late, otherwise I'd go on.

[Medic!]

Why do people keep calling their characters toons!!

A couple of our more devoted MMO players insist on doing this at the table...being an ex-MMO'er, I deftly bash them with books and coffee mugs when they do it :smallmad:


RE: Necrotic Chicken-and/or-prisoner-bombs...no justification is necessary, nor any launching device or immobilization. Necrotic Domination takes care of all of these issues.


I mean seriously, the first time an army sees a chicken running straight at it like a Konoha Ninja with its wings straight back, beak straight out an absurd length, they'll laugh.

The fifth time a chicken "BOK BOK BOOOOOOOOOOOOCK!"s into their ranks and explodes, they'll be puting up fantasy-era meme posters with pictures of angry chickens declaring, "Shyte just gotteth quite real, Mi'Lord."

[Firechanter]

Looks like you want to do something similar to my current setting, so maybe it can help you to hear how I set up the military branch.

So, you want to have competent and reasonably effective soldiers, but avoid the PCs getting free gear whenever a soldier dies. Solution: do the exact opposite of your current plan. Don't use NPC classes. Use good PC classes and optimize them a bit, then they won't need more gear than the NPC WBL lays out.

For example, the soldiers of my Good Empire are usually Warblade/Fighter or Crusader/Fighter multiclasses or stuff like that, or at the very least pure Fighters, but never Warriors. Most troops are levels 3-4 (levels 1-2 are considered as training phase and not meant to see combat), equipped with MW gear and maybe +1 armour and/or a +1 stat item. Officers are typically level 6+ and Bard-Saders or Clerics etc (alignment restriction on Bards nixed).

That way, I can have specialized types of infantry that, with the aid of an Officer's White Raven stances and Inspire Courage, can be awesome in combat but don't need item cost reducers to equip.

"Shock Troops" specifically, well, depends what you mean by that; if they are about charging the enemy line to break it open in a field battle, the Charging Minotaur maneuver is good for exactly that.

--

FWIW, I also tried to make the economy coherent. In my setting the Good Empire is about the size and population of the classical Roman Empire at the time of Trajan, with about a 100 million citizens (mainly humans, some 10% elves and dwarves each), of which only the best ~2% of each year are recruited for a tour of duty in the Legions. This works out to a standing army of about 150.000 elite soldiers. Suppose every soldier gets to keep his gear even when he's discharged, and the average level is 4 (3300GP per soldier), annual expenditure for personal gear is 50 million GP. So this part of the defense budget can be financed with an annual tithe of about 1GP per working citizen, because the empire is so freaking huge. So peanuts.

[thorgrim29]

A good way to improve the efficiency of your troops is putting a few commanders and a healer in each unit. Like, a marshall, a bard, a guy with a banner, per 20 or so soldiers. The commanders should either lead from the back or get the heaviest armor possible.. They fight with a shield wall, second rank has reach weapons, everyone has a few javelins. At the end of the unit, you get a guy or two with healing belts and eternal wands of CMW. Finally, every unit has one or two champions, big bruiser barbarians or something who step in to plug holes in the wall while the downed/heavily wounded guys get healed (yes, this is totally codex Alera tactics)

[ravagerofworlds]

A couple of our more devoted MMO players insist on doing this at the table...being an ex-MMO'er, I deftly bash them with books and coffee mugs when they do it :smallmad:



regarding the Toon bashers.

The word has been used pre-MMO days. But what does Steve Jackson know about RPGs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toon_%28role-playing_game%29)?

It is really sad when people decide to ridicule others for the way a person may talk, or type, rather than the merits of the argument. In rhetoric, this is akin to a red herring.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Going back to designing shock troops...

Honestly, I'm surprised you don't have a bard interspersed in there somewhere. They are absolutely FANTASTIC force multipliers!

At low levels, with magic item support, they can easily hit a +4 bonus at level 4. That is to attack and damage per swing. With DFI (doable by this point), that's an extra +4d6 fire damage per swing.

At higher levels, a War Chanter Bardblade is a scary, scary thing. All allies within area of effect get the BAB of the Bardblade's character level (including iteratives), on top of DFI shenanigans. Stack those bonuses, and even level 4 mooks can be surprisingly scary to a medium to high level party who doesn't have an optimized Tier 1 class. Something like a +36 to attack, with +12d6 Sonic damage per swing? Sure, they still go down quickly, but you've got LOTS of them. Disposable minions become cruise missiles.

[ravagerofworlds]

Honestly, I'm surprised you don't have a bard interspersed in there somewhere. They are absolutely FANTASTIC force multipliers!



I agree- Warrior 1/ Bard 2 is a low level healer (even the cantrip/orison of healing 1 point can stabilize a dying soldier) who can use arcane wands (burning hands [flame thrower], magic missile [sniper] is a good way to go. For the most part, unless you have military veterans from several martial campaigns, most of a nation's soldiers will be from peasant levies at worst to green recruits from the training academy at best. It is special forces (veterans of several missions who received an incredible amount of training) that would even reach mid level status.

But Bard is indeed, a good amount of versatility. Also, Enlarge Person can be turned into a wand-> cast it on the infantry guide with a tower shield, and perhaps a whole unit can have total cover?

[Mishkov]

I'd try two ambush style troops.

Try something like

Scout 1/BarbX x2
Bard leader x1
Warmage x1
Ninja x1 or x2

It's a scary troop with damage, mobility, invisibility and buffs, but little battlefield control. If they can weather the initial storm, they'll be fine.

Otherwise maybe

Duskblade x2
Cleric x 1
Warmage x 2

for a similar setup

If they're evil, you could do fun things like
Hexblade x1
Dread Necro x 1
Sorc/Dread Witch x1
Warlock x1
Bard x1 (requiem bard)

What exactly are you looking for when you say "shock troops" though? Something like

Ninja x1
Scout 2/Ranger (swift hunter) x2
Spellthief x 2
Arcane trickster

would be pretty shocking. Also what is the nation like sending out these troops?

[Azoth]

Another thought is to have a few giants/minotaurs rocking out warhulk levels with warhammers. The visual is scary. Especially when the grab a broken balist/trebuchet and hurl the damn thing at the enemy lines only to follow up by taking out the 3 guys in front of them with a mighty swing.

Gotta have a few lumbering brutes.

Or worse are some wyvern riders dropping casks, not flasks, CASKS of alchemist fire onto the battlefield. Airborne strike divisions are the scarriest things at low to low-mid levels. They just fly up and drop. Even at only a DC 15 Ref save...those casks would cause massive areas of fire, acid baths, or explosions depending on what you dropped.

[rweird]

Another thought is to have a few giants/minotaurs rocking out warhulk levels with warhammers. The visual is scary. Especially when the grab a broken balist/trebuchet and hurl the damn thing at the enemy lines only to follow up by taking out the 3 guys in front of them with a mighty swing.

Gotta have a few lumbering brutes.

Or worse are some wyvern riders dropping casks, not flasks, CASKS of alchemist fire onto the battlefield. Airborne strike divisions are the scarriest things at low to low-mid levels. They just fly up and drop. Even at only a DC 15 Ref save...those casks would cause massive areas of fire, acid baths, or explosions depending on what you dropped.

It wouldn't cover a big area, alchemists fire only affects a 5-ft spread, though it would deal a bunch of d6 damage to that space, unless the DM rules otherwise, or there are rules for casks of alchemist fire.