How to build Nightmare

[Blackhawk748]

The topic says it all, i want to build nightmare from Soulcalibur (number 2) class wise id prefer to be a fighter.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Pretty sure Nightmare is modeled very well by a reth dekala (ToB creature) with a legacy weapon or perhaps an artifact weapon. Then add warblade levels and you're done.

If ToB is off the table, then this will be noteably harder and I'll have to get back to you.

[KillianHawkeye]

Building Nightmare is not the tricky part. He'd have high Strength and probably a full BAB, but his abilities as a swordsman are not too integral. Slap Power Attack on him and there's not much else to do.

No, the real issue is creating the Soul Edge. That's where most of the power is.

Okay, there's also his freakishly large arm, but I always assumed he got that by wielding the Soul Edge for so long. You could probably stat it up as a graft of some sort which pushes his Strength score even higher than normally possible.

[Arcanist]

Building Nightmare is not the tricky part. He'd have high Strength and probably a full BAB, but his abilities as a swordsman are not too integral. Slap Power Attack on him and there's not much else to do.

No, the real issue is creating the Soul Edge. That's where most of the power is.

I personally support the idea that it would be an Intelligent Legacy Weapon of Chaotic Evil alignment who willingly goes out of it's way to corrupt everyone and their grandpa into killing people over it.


Okay, there's also his freakishly large arm, but I always assumed he got that by wielding the Soul Edge for so long. You could probably stat it up as a graft of some sort which pushes his Strength score even higher than normally possible.

Clawed Arm from Fiend Folio's got your back... Run. I'll hold it off. :smallamused:

[Blackhawk748]

from what i've thought out so far hed look something like this (hes human and i only have a few levels stated out)

1. Power Attack, EWP Fullblade, Monkey Grip
2. Combat Expertise
3. Power Lunge
4. Improved Trip
5.
6. Knock Down, Martial Study:Stone Dragon (Minotaur Charge)

Hes probably gonna wield a large Fullblade, hence monkey grip, and the others are just to copy how he fights in Soulcalibur. IE Knocking people over at almost every opportunity.

[Dusk Eclipse]

NEVER EVER EVER take Monkey Grip... no, not even then. It is a terrible weapon and besides it would let you wield a large fullblade (at a -2 penalty) two handed, AFAIK baring the Titan's bloodline there isn't an ability that let's you change the "handed-ness" of a weapon.

[Blackhawk748]

i knew that i would have to wield it two handed, the sword is the same size as my character after all, and honestly ive never understood why everyone seems to hate Monkey Grip, ive found it to be most useful at times.

[toapat]

NEVER EVER EVER take Monkey Grip... no, not even then. It is a terrible weapon and besides it would let you wield a large fullblade (at a -2 penalty) two handed, AFAIK baring the Titan's bloodline there isn't an ability that let's you change the "handed-ness" of a weapon.

actually, it would make sense for Nightmare/Siegfried to have Monkeygrip, but actually, it would be a Large Greatsword, even if visually it is a full blade, because the damage of a Large Greatsword is higher then either Fullblade

Soul Edge qualities:

Grants the wielder Monkeygrip
Has the Morphic Property
When user fails Ego check, Grants wielder the Powerful Build so long as they possess Soul Edge.

[Dusk Eclipse]

i knew that i would have to wield it two handed, the sword is the same size as my character after all, and honestly ive never understood why everyone seems to hate Monkey Grip, ive found it to be most useful at times.

Monkey grip is replicated by a cheap item (around 2000-3000 GP IIRC) sans penalty.

[toapat]

Monkey grip is replicated by a cheap item (around 2000-3000 GP IIRC) sans penalty.

Soul Edge is evil though, so having it grant a better version of increased size doesnt make sense

[Blackhawk748]

wait, how does a Large greatsword do more damage than a Large fullblade? A Large greatsword does 3d6, a large fullblade does 3d8, unless im seriously looking at something wrong here

[toapat]

wait, how does a Large greatsword do more damage than a Large fullblade? A Large greatsword does 3d6, a large fullblade does 3d8, unless im seriously looking at something wrong here

unless im finding the wrong weapon, the Large Fullblade does 1d12 damage, the huge one deals 2d8.

yep, you are looking at DandD wiki's homebrew fullblade, which is better then a greatsword. The published weapon isnt worth it though

[Blackhawk748]

oh yea this is where all of us get really confused because of 3.0 to 3.5 conversion. My group has agreed that a fullblade, designed for a medium character, does 2d8, therefore one designed for a large creature does 3d8. its how we converted it and it makes sense to us because you need EWP to use it

[Blackhawk748]

i just looked at the arms and equipment guide and i forgot that the fullblade is "huge" even though it technically isnt because a medium creature can wield it as it is written, thank you WotC for confusing the hell out of us :smalltongue:

[toapat]

oh yea this is where all of us get really confused because of 3.0 to 3.5 conversion. My group has agreed that a fullblade, designed for a medium character, does 2d8, therefore one designed for a large creature does 3d8. its how we converted it and it makes sense to us because you need EWP to use it


i just looked at the arms and equipment guide and i forgot that the fullblade is "huge" even though it technically isnt because a medium creature can wield it as it is written, thank you WotC for confusing the hell out of us :smalltongue:

1: It isnt really worth EWP

2: Nightmare, expecially in Soul2, doesnt fight with the Zwielhander form Soul Edge purely 2 handed. If we added fullblade to the progression, in order to bring the weapon down to be 1.5 handed, Nightmare with his forced Powerful build has to still be weilding a medium fullblade. A Large greatsword though can be wielded 1.5 handed.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Soul Edge is evil though, so having it grant a better version of increased size doesnt make sense

I am talking about the Strongarm braces in the mic, they occupy the arm slot and let's you wield a weapon sized for a creature 1 size category larger than you..

[Blackhawk748]

the more i look at this the more i realize that a half giant would work probably work better for Nightmare than a human, thereby bypassing the entire handedness problem all together, that and the Str and Con boost is very indicative of Nightmare

[toapat]

the more i look at this the more i realize that a half giant would work probably work better for Nightmare than a human, thereby bypassing the entire handedness problem all together, that and the Str and Con boost is very indicative of Nightmare

Except, there is an actual reason for why Nightmare is so powerful:

Siegfried's attribute array, is best described as all 18s

Soul Edge's Ego is much higher, and when it transforms someone into Nightmare, they gain the powerful Build attribute.

[Gavinfoxx]

You want JOVAR, not fullblade. Jovar is the 3.5e 'bigger than a greatsword' weapon; Fullblade isn't compatible with 3.5e rules.

And just ad-hoc the benefit of those gloves/bracers into the weapon itself.

[Blackhawk748]

How is the Jovar bigger than the greatsword, they do the same damage. all it is is a sharper greatsword

[Gavinfoxx]

How is the Jovar bigger than the greatsword, they do the same damage. all it is is a sharper greatsword

Greatsword:
2 handed, martial proficiency, 2d6 slashing damage, 19-20/x2, 50 gp, 8 lbs, hardness 10, hp 10.
Jovar:
2 handed, exotic proficiency, 2d6 slashing damage, 18-20/x2, 500 gp, 13 lbs, hardness 10, hp 10.

It's visibly bigger in the picture, and is over half again heavier, and it does deal more damage (as shown by better critical range), and it is more difficult to learn. Of COURSE it is a bigger greatsword!

[Slipperychicken]

Honestly, I see Nightmare as using a Greatsword. A lot thicker, sure, but it's length is roughly the right proportion for a greatsword. Human-sized greatswords are supposed to be as tall as you are. But bumping it up a whole size category (increase size 2x) would mean the weapon would have to be twice as big as he is, which is obviously not correct.

Nightmare

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e1/Nightmare03.png/280px-Nightmare03.png


WARNING: Massive Nightmare pic
http://images.wikia.com/soulcalibur/images/9/95/Nightmare-sc2x5.jpg

Greatswords
http://th01.deviantart.net/fs70/150/f/2010/034/9/9/Sword_Photoshoot_2_by_Walter_NEST.jpg
http://www.awesomeoff.com/images/entries2/mainview/greatsword.jpg
http://www.thearma.org/images/S2000/New_Folder/p9160037.jpg
http://www.thecelticcroft.com/Weaponry/kaurina_lowlander.jpg


Greatsword stats, save yourself the feat, handwave the width as "close enough for fantasy".

[Blackhawk748]

well a fullblade is as tall as the guy wielding it, like the Zweihander that the guy in red and the girl have, its just that its A LOT thicker thus why it does more damage, the reason im wielding a Large Fullblade is because Nightmare is almost a large creature in height to begin with (he is one of the biggest characters in the series) on top of that it does a ton of damage which is what nightmare enjoys doing. besides having a delicious soul burger every now and again :smalltongue:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3529/3469971542_58893ca28a.jpg

this is DnD's medium fullblade (i believe she was about 5'8 or so, shes a prebuilt character_

http://wallpapers.boolsite.net/srv11/Images/Wallpapers/JeuxVideos/SoulCalibur/SC_Nightmare_01.jpg

This is Nightmare's (i believe he's almost 7ft tall)

[Gavinfoxx]

The thing is... a Fullblade does not exist in 3.5e. So its invalid as a choice. Its one of the few weapons that does not appropriately make the transition between 3.0 and 3.5e.

[Blackhawk748]

im still very confused how it doesnt transition

[Diarmuid]

Doing tons of damage can come from having Strength boosts from a high Str score, a Graft, and any other type of bonus.

You're getting far too hung up on the picture. Call it a greatsword, even a large greatsword if you want, but fluff it being all huge and ugly. Have it grant Strongarm Bracers benefit, the "powerful grip" property Hammers of Moradin get (1.5 Str wielded 1H and 2x Str wielded 2H), and perhaps a Power Attack multiplier (maybe just on a charge, who knows).

Now you can deal stupid amounts of damage and not have so much mechanical headaches about weapon size.

[Gavinfoxx]

im still very confused how it doesnt transition

Cause it is already a 'Large' weapon. The 3.0 rules use a completely and utterly different method of deciding weapon sizes than the 3.5e rules. Under the 3.5e rules, a Fullblade is merely a Large Bastard Sword. In other words... it doesn't exist as a separate 3.5e weapon at all, due to how 3.0e weapon sizing works and converts to 3.5e.

So if you want a fullblade, here is what you do.

1 Get martial weapon proficiency
2 Get a Large Bastard Sword
3 Get a pair of strongarm bracers

wield your 'fullblade' two handed. with the standard fullblade stats. Doesn't seem that great, does it? That's cause it isn't...

Or you could:

1. get martial weapon profiency
2. get a large greatsword
3. get a pair of strongarm bracers

wield the weapon two handed.

or you could

1. get exotic weapon proficiency: bastard sword
2. get a large bastard sword
3. get a pair of strongarm bracers

and wield the weapon one handed (ewww....), or sometimes two handed, as the whim takes you

or you could

1. get exotic weapon proficiency: jovar
2. get a large jovar
3. get a pair of strongarm bracers

and wield the weapon two-handed.

or you could
1. get martial weapon proficiency.
2. get a large longsword.
3. get a pair of strongarm bracers

and wield the weapon one or two handed as the whim takes you.