Hoard Scarabs! (Or: what where they thinking!)

[PetterTomBos]

I just flipped trough the dracomnicon and found the hoard scarabs! I really like the monster (Vermin that looks like gold coins hiding in treasure). But, look at this:

If it bites you, make a ref save. If ref save under 11 it burrows. When burrowed in you, you take d2 con-damage per round. Until you cast remove disease or heal.

How can this not be auto-character-death material? I mean, at low lvl.s it is save or die. On every attack that hits. But surely the CR must reflect it.

CR 1/2.

What where they thinking?

[ravagerofworlds]

Hmm... seems like the scarab was based on this scene from The Mummy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI2raWlzZxU)?

Well.. after looking at the stat block, these guys have fewer HP than a goblin (CR 1/3), but a higher AC and is on par with melee. Hard to hit due to size, but they go splat real fast.

I like the Swarm more (CR 5).

As a GM, I would allow people to do a Heal check with a dagger to cut the bugger out possibly.

EDIT: Seems kind of dangerous for a dragon to sleep with these guys in their hoard pile. Each bite has a 5% chance to threaten as a critical hit, and a 1/400 chance for the critter to burrow every round.

[JBento]

They were thinking dragons were as dumb as WotC game devs, and routinely engage adventuring parties in their lairs amidst their hoards. Because that's probably where Hoard Scarabs were supposed to come in: as an added, surprise danger in a dragon fight, and not as a challenge by themselves.

[tyckspoon]

They have to hit, first: They only attack at +3 (a 1st level character will likely have an AC between 14-18.)
They have to survive until next round before they can attempt to burrow - if you've been bitten (and hopefully the DM tells you the Scarab is attached and trying to gnaw its way into your skin so you know you *should* be stomping on it/ripping it off/whatever) the party has a round to take out the Scarab before the burrow becomes an issue.
The bitten character has to fail an easy Reflex save- even if he has no Reflex bonus, he has a 50% chance of passing a straight roll.

So it's reasonably low odds that they ever succeed on Burrowing into any PC. I do find it odd that there isn't a means of removing the Burrow that would be available for any party of a level that would *care* about these things, tho. Non-supernatural infestation/burrowing attacks like these often have a surgical removal option (eg, make a DC Whatever Heal check. If successful, you remove the offending creature/egg/whatever from the victim and the patient suffers some damage) and I'd houserule one into this.

[Tvtyrant]

I suppose if you stuff hundreds of them in there, they are effectively unstoppable death. But much the same is true of the weasel.

Fear the mighty weasel!

[pwykersotz]

They aren't that great. ANY effect which removes disease kills them, so a heal check of 11 gets rid of it. Immunity to disease and natural armor bonuses +3 or higher autowins. It's a gimmick. A powerful one to be sure, but in a game of save or dies, this is easy. Anyone venturing into a dragon's lair has more to fear than these guys.

[TypoNinja]

EDIT: Seems kind of dangerous for a dragon to sleep with these guys in their hoard pile. Each bite has a 5% chance to threaten as a critical hit, and a 1/400 chance for the critter to burrow every round.

Dragons, even most(all?) Wyrmlings are immune, nat armor of +3 or better provides immunity. Which makes sense. Being immune to disease stopping something from burrowing into your flesh is a little stranger.

[Ashtagon]

They aren't that great. ANY effect which removes disease kills them, so a heal check of 11 gets rid of it. Immunity to disease and natural armor bonuses +3 or higher autowins. It's a gimmick. A powerful one to be sure, but in a game of save or dies, this is easy. Anyone venturing into a dragon's lair has more to fear than these guys.

Heal skill checks only cure diseases if they are passed on two consecutive checks made 24 hours apart (certain diseases have more stringent restrictions).

Good luck holding out for 24 hours while you wait for Heal check number two.

[pwykersotz]

Heal skill checks only cure diseases if they are passed on two consecutive checks made 24 hours apart (certain diseases have more stringent restrictions).

Good luck holding out for 24 hours while you wait for Heal check number two.

From the SRD under the Heal Skill:
Treating a disease or tending a creature wounded by a spike growth or spike stones spell takes 10 minutes of work.

So, you're right, that would be a bear to endure, but not quite 24 hours luckily. Still, low level at generally under 2 minutes survivability, that is indeed enough to suck. As was mentioned above though, you have to be hit by it first, then it has to survive another round, then you have to fail an easy save. I still think the odds of it using its ability are low unless you loot, haul your butt away, then sleep unsuspectingly next to your gold.

Edit: I give up, ignore my lack of knowledge about diseases. I clearly have a case of Brain Scarabs right now. :smallfrown:

[awa]

feels like something out of second eddtion they had tons of monsters that did stuff like that

[Zaq]

Yeah, honestly, I'm getting a very strong legacy vibe from this. I just checked my 1st ed monster books (MM, MM2, and FF), and I don't see it in there, but there's all kinds of similar "X infests you, and you have to get a Remove Disease or whatever in Y time or turn to the next page on your pad of blank character sheets." It even has the same "monster disguised as innocuous thing and/or not easily detectable under normal circumstances before smacking you with the death sentence" vibe. I would not be at all surprised to learn that this monster came from an earlier time.

[nedz]

I don't think that these appeared in AD&D, but they definitely have an old school feel. I would only use something like this if I came up with an original way of using them.

[ThiagoMartell]

They were thinking dragons were as dumb as WotC game devs, and routinely engage adventuring parties in their lairs amidst their hoards. Because that's probably where Hoard Scarabs were supposed to come in: as an added, surprise danger in a dragon fight, and not as a challenge by themselves.

I was going to point out how you were not correct, but someone else did. Instead, I'll invite you to joins us in Southern Americas in the Playground. :smallsmile:

I'd allow a Heal check to remove the scarabs as well, but only in the first turn.

[SpaceBadger]

I don't think that these appeared in AD&D, but they definitely have an old school feel.

Yeah, kinda like rot grubs.

[TexAvery]

I'm pretty sure these guys existed in 2E, which wasn't as bad as 1E in the rot-grub instadeath department. I can't remember which book, but I remember the "scarab disguised as gold coin" from one of the later MMs.

[Telok]

AD&D critters

Lock Lurker (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?641243-Let-s-Read-AD-amp-D-2e-Monstrous-Compendium-Annual-Vol-I&p=16056253#post16056253)

Rot Grub (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22333214/1mm/rotgrub.htm)

It was not a good idea to get too attached to your characters.

[The Random NPC]

Rot grubs were updated in Dungeonscape, now they do 1d6 a round instead of instant death.

[LeshLush]

Rot grubs were updated in Dungeonscape, now they do 1d6 a round instead of instant death.
Something about back in my day we sometimes died three times in one session and were proud of it, etc. I'm gonna shake my fist and hobble back inside.


Get off my lawn!

[TypoNinja]

Something about back in my day we sometimes died three times in one session and were proud of it, etc. I'm gonna shake my fist and hobble back inside.


Get off my lawn!

My group takes too long at character creation to ever pull that off. Three new characters in the same day would be just about the only thing we did.

[awa]

second eddtion charecter creation was much faster. much fewer options, not being able to move your stats and minimum stats for classes and races meant you very limited in what you were allowed to play with any given charecter.

[PetterTomBos]

Nice to see the legacy in it! Makesmore sense that way...

Still, I agree that it is possible (even easy) to houserule, but I shouldnt have to. 2 lines with:

"If a person has been infected by the scarabs he can roll a healcheck to dig it out, given that he has a piercing weapon. Heal 25 means no damage, 20 gives 2d6 damage, 10 gives 3d6 damage and 1d6 con-damage."

Or something would've solved it. It is one of the most interesting aspects of the creature, isn't it?