Ideal Slave

[Mithril Leaf]

So, I'll going through hypothetical artificer optimization, as is my way. I need some help working out how to get a servant bound to me that possesses all the ability scores that one needs for common convenience. Ideally I'd like to give a construct a constitution score. The imposed limit on spells are 5th level or lower.
Please and thank you for any ideas.

[Slipperychicken]

You need to be more specific than that. What do you want the "slave" to be capable of?


Warforged have Constitution scores (actually they have all 6 scores). Leadership works as well as ever.

[Mithril Leaf]

Basically warforged capable. However, I want it to not be able to turn on me. I'll treat it right, but when something is going to be buffed to high heaven and carrying me on it's back, I'd like some assurance that it won't suddenly decide to kill me.

A warforged without free will and makeable by humanoid hands would be ideal.

[Coidzor]

So you want something that's both a bodyguard and can help around the house, essentially?

Why are you opposed to having a couple of homunculi for housekeeping duties and having a main bruiser for bodyguard detail?

[toapat]

So you want something that's both a bodyguard and can help around the house, essentially?

Why are you opposed to having a couple of homunculi for housekeeping duties and having a main bruiser for bodyguard detail?

cost seems like a pretty obvious obstacle. you also cant have too many Homunculi i believe.

[Coidzor]

cost seems like a pretty obvious obstacle. you also cant have too many Homunculi i believe.

If you just want something for doing things with no combat purpose it's pretty cheap because you don't have to give them additional HD or other bells and whistles, and you don't need more than 3 at the most unless you want to substitute them for the staff of a mansion or something.

I don't recall if Dedicated Wrights refuse to obey orders and will only craft, but I don't think so, I think that's just their primary function and even then, there's no benefit to them crafting 24/7 which leaves a fair chunk of time for them to take care of other things considering their knowledge base.

As far as I've ever read, there's no limit on how many homunculi you can have aside from the amount of blood/ichor, which is a renewable resource in living creatures, and money/materials which are also renewable. Having too many on the battlefield who aren't up to snuff is a good way to get iced though, as destroying them causes damage to their creator, which is why they're usually recommended as supplementary combat roles in support of a golem or shield/runic guardian or other appropriate construct such as an effigy creature.

The collar of perpetual attendance (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c) may be of interest as well.

[Malroth]

Create a single use wonderous item of Mindrape, Find some Paladin or other melee type humanoid and get them drunk then erase their personality and memories once they're passed out leaving only the directive to obey your commands. Then apply a half golem graft to them and order them to fail their save.

[Mithril Leaf]

I appear to have failed to get across my desires. I want something that has a con and can basically function as a normal fleshy, but is completely and unending loyal to me, Thrallherd style, but created or summoned, not as a class feature.

[Seffbasilisk]

There's an obscure necklace called Render's Bait I believe it's priced at 54,000gp as a wonderous magical item, so as an artificier you might be able to craft it. It attracts Gray Renders to you, and has them basically be your loyal not-so-little pet. I think the number of Renders max is linked to Cha, but you can research it more if that's what you're looking for.

[Mithril Leaf]

There's an obscure necklace called Render's Bait I believe it's priced at 54,000gp as a wonderous magical item, so as an artificier you might be able to craft it. It attracts Gray Renders to you, and has them basically be your loyal not-so-little pet. I think the number of Renders max is linked to Cha, but you can research it more if that's what you're looking for.

That actually seems about perfect. What book is it in?

EDIT: Ah Savage Species. Render Bait.

EDIT2: 35,640 GP. Not quite total servitude, but well within viable levels. Awesome.

EDIT3: I can always use more, if you guys have ideas.

[Coidzor]

I appear to have failed to get across my desires. I want something that has a con and can basically function as a normal fleshy, but is completely and unending loyal to me, Thrallherd style, but created or summoned, not as a class feature.

So... What, a valet? A cohort-like entity?

[Mithril Leaf]

So... What, a valet? A cohort-like entity?

Like a cohort of thrall but... made or summoned. Something I can outfit in faith, but can also experiment on, possibly boosting it's HD without knocking it out of my control range.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Like a cohort of thrall but... made or summoned. Something I can outfit in faith, but can also experiment on, possibly boosting it's HD without knocking it out of my control range.

If you don't mind the minion being dumb as dirt, you can pick any mindless construct and add the soulfused construct template from MoI. It'll get a con score and 3 int though I think it still uses normal construct HD and hp's in spite of gaining a con score.

[Mithril Leaf]

If you don't mind the minion being dumb as dirt, you can pick any mindless construct and add the soulfused construct template from MoI. It'll get a con score and 3 int though I think it still uses normal construct HD and hp's in spite of gaining a con score.

That'd be awesome, but how do I actually make a construct soulfused do you figure?

[Kelb_Panthera]

That'd be awesome, but how do I actually make a construct soulfused do you figure?

Unfortunately, I don't know for sure that there's a RAW way to do it.

I'd let any spellcaster with the means to create the construct and the incarnum spellcaster feat (or whatever the one that let a caster cast incarnum spells was called) to apply the template with a surcharge equal to the cost of adding one extra HD to the creature.

Mind you, if the construct in question doesn't have a stronger reason to obey you than the fact you created it, you're going to have to either treat it with a modicum of respect or treat it like an actual slave, especially since it now has the ability to advance in a character class.

[Mithril Leaf]

Unfortunately, I don't know for sure that there's a RAW way to do it.

I'd let any spellcaster with the means to create the construct and the incarnum spellcaster feat (or whatever the one that let a caster cast incarnum spells was called) to apply the template with a surcharge equal to the cost of adding one extra HD to the creature.

Mind you, if the construct in question doesn't have a stronger reason to obey you than the fact you created it, you're going to have to either treat it with a modicum of respect or treat it like an actual slave, especially since it now has the ability to advance in a character class.

Damn shame, I'm still holding out for a way to give a homunculus a constitution score, after which lots of fun things open up. Any Dragon Magazine content come to mind?

[Coidzor]

There's Animate Dread Warrior + Gentle Repose but that doesn't let you advance them after you get them and they're a bit thick. Might be a couple of ways for you to get them to have their HP keyed off of charisma but I can't recall anything promising offhand.

Dragon #327 has the Rudimentary Intelligence feat which lets you create constructs that have an intelligence score but are still loyal, say a shield/runic guardian or golem or really nasty templated effigy creature. Can't think of any specific ones offhand that can have their HD increased after their initial creation, but I recall that there were a few like that. If you can mix in pathfinder I think there's a medium-sized, roughly humanoid construct you can make that you can give additional HD to and which can wield equipment.

Unfortunately those still leave the problem of getting a constitution score, though if you only want that for extra HP, there's potential ways to get that without a con score.

[Mithril Leaf]

There's Animate Dread Warrior + Gentle Repose but that doesn't let you advance them after you get them and they're a bit thick. Might be a couple of ways for you to get them to have their HP keyed off of charisma but I can't recall anything promising offhand.

Dragon #327 has the Rudimentary Intelligence feat which lets you create constructs that have an intelligence score but are still loyal, say a shield/runic guardian or golem or really nasty templated effigy creature. Can't think of any specific ones offhand that can have their HD increased after their initial creation, but I recall that there were a few like that. If you can mix in pathfinder I think there's a medium-sized, roughly humanoid construct you can make that you can give additional HD to and which can wield equipment.

Unfortunately those still leave the problem of getting a constitution score, though if you only want that for extra HP, there's potential ways to get that without a con score.

It's a mix of that and wanting to be able to use things that require a fortitude save on them.

[Kelb_Panthera]

It's a mix of that and wanting to be able to use things that require a fortitude save on them.

Isn't there a spell that temporarily strips a construct of immunity to fort save effects?

Edit: Greater humanoid essence, RoE. The spell turns the construct into a humanoid for 1 round/level.

Or was the fort-save immunity part of con being a non-ability rather than a quality of the creature type?

[Rejakor]

The hardest part of this is the 'unending loyalty' part.

Why not just buff yourself to high heaven, if the power, as I understand it, is coming from the buffs?

A good workaround is using PaO to become a mindflayer, and then turning [Anything you Want] into a voidmind which is unendingly loyal to you.

[Mithril Leaf]

Isn't there a spell that temporarily strips a construct of immunity to fort save effects?

Edit: Greater humanoid essence, RoE. The spell turns the construct into a humanoid for 1 round/level.

Or was the fort-save immunity part of con being a non-ability rather than a quality of the creature type?

Part of the non-ability sadly, or that would have worked.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Part of the non-ability sadly, or that would have worked.

Damn. Still opens up an appreciable set of options though, so at least it's something to keep in your back pocket for later.

Btw, why not just enthrall a warforged one way or another? Hitting them with greater humanoid essence does make them a humanoid creature for all intents and purposes for its duration.

[Mithril Leaf]

Damn. Still opens up an appreciable set of options though, so at least it's something to keep in your back pocket for later.

Btw, why not just enthrall a warforged one way or another? Hitting them with greater humanoid essence does make them a humanoid creature for all intents and purposes for its duration.

Well, if I wanted to resort to simple enthralling, I could just hire some fiends with LPB. I want something that can't betray me if somebody decides to dispel/torture it.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Well, if I wanted to resort to simple enthralling, I could just hire some fiends with LPB. I want something that can't betray me if somebody decides to dispel/torture it.

So what we're looking for then, is something that's mindless*, has a con score, and is inherently obedient to you and only you.

That's a hell of a tall order there. The only thing that comes to mind, is a vague memory of a feat that lets a druid get a vermin as an animal companion in, I wanna say, ECS.

*If it's not mindless it can be turned against you one way or another.

[God Imperror]

Vermins as animal companions...

here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040705a) or taking the vermin companion feat (eberron specific).

On giving a con score (and intelligence) to constructs.

I personally like sacred guardian (pg. 91 from the bestiary of krinn) because it is a template, it has a listed cost (cheap enough), adds some slightly useful abilities and they are loyal/bond to protect a "temple".

Are you against living in a temple?

[hoverfrog]

Does it have to be a construct? Can't you just create undead as loyal slaves? OK no constitution still but how important is that?

Other loyal slaves include just about anything that you summon using Summon Monster. They don't last long but that may or may not be an issue.

[Rejakor]

Mindflayer, voidmind, you're welcome.

[dextercorvia]

What about an Ice Assassin or a Simulacrum?

[Mithril Leaf]

Does it have to be a construct? Can't you just create undead as loyal slaves? OK no constitution still but how important is that?

Other loyal slaves include just about anything that you summon using Summon Monster. They don't last long but that may or may not be an issue.

That's the biggest issue, but I may found a workaround. It's rather cheesy, but c'est la vie.

So, I make an advanced homunculus with assume supernatural ability. I find a psionic artificer who'll trade gear with me and get him to make me a skin of Proteus. Then he turns into an animal and I awaken it. Next he turns himself into a barghest, one with 8 HD, assuming the Feed ability. Now I have him feed on 3 level 8 humanoids that I find and capture. The Feed Su ability turns him into a greater barghest, so he assumes all the traits of that, while in theory keeping his whole bound servant thing. Now he has all the stats of a greater Barghest, while hypothetically keeping it's untyped 1,500 foot bound telepathy thing.
Would it work?

[hoverfrog]

That's a convoluted route to where you want to get to. For the amount of money your spending on a slave you could probably hire a small army instead.

[Mithril Leaf]

That's a convoluted route to where you want to get to. For the amount of money your spending on a slave you could probably hire a small army instead.

2 things about that;
I'm an artificer using the whole of the cost reduction handbook, so all of this is dirt cheap.
D&D is very fond of a high level threat being worth more than a small army. The cost of this is fairly low for a scaling perfectly bound companion, under 100 grand of standard money, most of which is subsidized by merit of being an artificer. Plus, once it hits 18 naturally, I can advance it by means of warbeast and awakening for easy bonus Magic Beast hit dice.

[Slipperychicken]

With a very high Handle Animal check (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#handleAnimal), you can rear and train a creature of any type (including Humanoid or Construct) to do tricks for you as an animal would. I think the intelligence score restriction still applies, so you'd want some means of keeping it's Int at 1 or 2 (like permanently reducing the ability score with something nasty). The tricks on the SRD should cover everything you'd want your slave to do on command. Granted, with a Handle Animal check that high to rear/train any non-intelligent creature imaginable, you can have all kinds of broken nonsense which would make Bubs the Commoner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7097263&postcount=38) cry.

Unfortunate Implications ahoy!

[toapat]

With a very high Handle Animal check (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#handleAnimal), you can rear and train a creature of any type (including Humanoid or Construct) to do tricks for you as an animal would. I think the intelligence score restriction still applies, so you'd want some means of keeping it's Int at 1 or 2 (like permanently reducing the ability score with something nasty). The tricks on the SRD should cover everything you'd want your slave to do on command. Granted, with a Handle Animal check that high to rear/train any non-intelligent creature imaginable, you can have all kinds of broken nonsense which would make Bubs the Commoner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7097263&postcount=38) cry.

Unfortunate Implications ahoy!

and Cats (even unawakened) replace Handle Animal with Handle Humanoid on all skill lists

[Slipperychicken]

and Cats (even unawakened) replace Handle Animal with Handle Humanoid on all skill lists

Now I want to make a Factotum with max ranks in Handle Humanoid. Fluff it as hypnosis, complete with gold pocket watch and funny hand gestures (which vaguely resemble a cat's pawing at the air).

[Mithril Leaf]

Now I want to make a Factotum with max ranks in Handle Humanoid. Fluff it as hypnosis, complete with gold pocket watch and funny hand gestures (which vaguely resemble a cat's pawing at the air).

Tibbits. :smallamused:

[toapat]

Tibbits. :smallamused:

dont get Handle Humanoid like housecats

[Mithril Leaf]

dont get Handle Humanoid like housecats

But they can explicitly turn into housecats. Slanderous lies to not give it to them.

[Coidzor]

If you're only paying 5% costs, why is an 18 HD greater Barghest preferable to a couple of decent golems again?

And how exactly are you applying the warbeast template to or awakening a homunculus even if it counts as a barghest? :smallconfused:

[Mithril Leaf]

If you're only paying 5% costs, why is an 18 HD greater Barghest preferable to a couple of decent golems again?

And how exactly are you applying the warbeast template to or awakening a homunculus even if it counts as a barghest? :smallconfused:

The beauty of the skin of proteus. Constant metamorphisis at 7 ML. Lets him take the form and typing of animals for the extended time period required. Later it lets him take the form of a normal barghest and assume supernatural ability to assume feed. When he levels up to 9 HD by feeding, he becomes a greater bargest, picking up a con score along the way.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The beauty of the skin of proteus. Constant metamorphisis at 7 ML. Lets him take the form and typing of animals for the extended time period required. Later it lets him take the form of a normal barghest and assume supernatural ability to assume feed. When he levels up to 9 HD by feeding, he becomes a greater bargest, picking up a con score along the way.

Doesn't simply activating the skin of proteus and choosing a creature with a con score accomplish that part? You get the physical abilities of the new form and keep your own mental abilities. Con was a physical ability last I checked.

[Mithril Leaf]

Doesn't simply activating the skin of proteus and choosing a creature with a con score accomplish that part? You get the physical abilities of the new form and keep your own mental abilities. Con was a physical ability last I checked.

But you don't get bonus HP from it, due to the way polymorph things work.

[Malroth]

I still like the idea of starting with something alive and turning it into a mindless construct rather than trying to give constructs life.

[Mithril Leaf]

I still like the idea of starting with something alive and turning it into a mindless construct rather than trying to give constructs life.

Far fewer angry lawful good churches if you go about it my way though :smallwink:

[Rejakor]

Well, as you're abducting humanoids and feeding them to your barghest, probably they'd dislike that regardless.

Did you take a look at the voidmind template at all? It has everything you want, and one shapechange later, you have a permanent thrall(s) who never can turn against you, as well as other goodies.