Summon Swarm and undead

[barna10]

Do you think a summoned swarm would attack (corporeal) undead? The spell description says the swarm will attack any "living" target in it's area. Thoughts?

[TuggyNE]

Do you think a summoned swarm would attack (corporeal) undead? The spell description says the swarm will attack any "living" target in it's area. Thoughts?

No, it wouldn't, because undead are not living. Neither are constructs.

[Pandiano]

No, it wouldn't, because undead are not living. Neither are constructs.

Badly worded spell. But since it checks for "living creatures in the area" it would only make sens semantic wise if the second mention of "creature" is implied to also being alive ones.

[JDarkshadow]

Badly worded spell. But since it checks for "living creatures in the area" it would only make sens semantic wise if the second mention of "creature" is implied to also being alive ones.

In PF, the description reads:

"You summon a swarm of bats, rats, or spiders (your choice), which attacks all other creatures within its area. (You may summon the swarm so that it shares the area of other creatures.) If no living creatures are within its area, the swarm attacks or pursues the nearest creature as best it can. The caster has no control over its target or direction of travel."

The first sentence seems to be the most important: "all other creatures" (other means other than it). I think the intent of adding "living" to the second sentence is to explain that the swarm will not fixate on any slain creatures in its immediate vicinity. In either case, if we read it completely literally, it still indicates that the swarm attacks the nearest creature (note: not the nearest living creature).

There should be some new term for un-slain creatures that doesn't exclude undead.

Conclusion: summoned swarms will attack undead.

[awa]

the srd has similar text so undead are not safe from getting nibbled in 3.5

[TuggyNE]

The first sentence seems to be the most important: "all other creatures" (other means other than it). I think the intent of adding "living" to the second sentence is to explain that the swarm will not fixate on any slain creatures in its immediate vicinity. In either case, if we read it completely literally, it still indicates that the swarm attacks the nearest creature (note: not the nearest living creature).

Actually, the meaning of "area" is "within the squares that it covers".

However, you're right that it would be nice if there was a term for creatures that are active (not dead or destroyed). At least they could have said "The swarm ignores dead or destroyed creatures", since undead are not strictly dead.

I'm not quite as sure as I was before the necro that undead/constructs are ignored, but it seems confusing enough to be in some doubt.

[Chronos]

Just basing it on common sense rather than RAW, I would expect that most swarms would attack corporeal undead, but not constructs. Most swarms are mindless, or very low intelligence, and their thought process will be something like "If nothing's moving, eat anything that smells like food. If something is moving and smells like food, first make it stop moving so it won't disturb the eating.". And to creatures like flies, centipedes, or rats, a rotting zombie smells like food.

[drack]

Just basing it on common sense rather than RAW, I would expect that most swarms would attack corporeal undead, but not constructs. Most swarms are mindless, or very low intelligence, and their thought process will be something like "If nothing's moving, eat anything that smells like food. If something is moving and smells like food, first make it stop moving so it won't disturb the eating.". And to creatures like flies, centipedes, or rats, a rotting zombie smells like food.

I'd do this, though I'd consider the diet of the summoned critters first. Some don't like dead flesh, and few eat bones when a skeleton walk through. :smalltongue: