[4e] Adventures in the Planes - OOC

[Toric]

And time for mood whiplash! On the one hand, see IC post. On the other, see Zyrr's new character sheet image!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Rictor_Lasanti/56d0ba36-bd8b-43bb-942b-c8050747e801.jpg

Larger, source image found here. (https://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1355/40/1355402636056.jpg)

[Hzurr]

Oh my.

I didn't actually expect Zyrr to take the Formorian up on his offer. Hmm...I'll need to think about how he'll respond.

[dariathalon]

I must apologize again for my lack of posting. The couple of weeks of heavy work ended up being longer than I expected. I'm okay now though, and hopefully will be back to a more regular posting schedule.

I was going to post tonight, but now I'm not sure how Pavick would respond to this most recent turn of events with Zyrr. I guess I'll wait to see how the king responds before posting myself since Pavick would probably wait to see how things play out for a moment after such a big revelation.

[Nai_Calus]

What the actual frak.

I just woke up after falling asleep stupidly early last night so am completely incoherent and can't respond to this yet, but... Um.

Yeah I don't even. Eltain is somewhere between horrified, shocked, and completely pissed off right now. Need to figure out what his reaction will be exactly.

[DSCrankshaw]

Well . . . it would stop the invasion in its tracks. Not that I'm saying it's a good thing, but it would definitely change the dynamics of the game considerably.

I was sort of hoping that our magical interference would cut off the source of the khopesh's power.

[Nai_Calus]

Except it wouldn't do anything about the Fomorians, would free up the Illithids and Beholders and such that the drow spend their time fighting with, would kill one of Eltain's goals, and also Eltain isn't going to be willing to work with someone who committed genocide.

...So yeah it would definitely change the dynamics of the game. DISJFijfkldjf I need to stop posting until much much later today.

And yeah, I was hoping it would help too. :/

[DSCrankshaw]

Well, since Zyrr will be dead too, you won't have to work with him.

[Nai_Calus]

Bah, you know there'll be a quest to go drag him back/raise dead cast.

Maybe if I get Frank in the way. He doesn't stay dead when killed anyway and I'm reasonably certain he's the only Celestial Pegamule in existence. (Actually technically he's a Silver Dragonmule according to the stats, but.)

[Orsik Vondal]

Ash is contemplating Zyrr's words.

1. It would stop the invasion. Good.
2. Zyrr would die and not be able to aid us in fighting the fomorian. Bad.
3. Most of the drow would be dead.

a. I would think that more males would be left at home than females. Which would make it easier to turn the tables in drow society. Good.
b. Kills most of the Lolth priestesses substantially diminishing her power base. Good.
c. It's genocide. Not fighting and killing them to save our lives and the lives of others. Bad.
d. Doesn't give them a chance to turn to the good side. Bad.

4. It woud most likely use up the juju in the Khopesh so no other race would die wholesale. Good.
5. Some of the group might not be gung-ho to resurrect Zyrr, because of his action, possibly causing a rift. Bad.
6. If Zyrr has the blade, the fomorian doesn't. A WMD in the hands of an ally is better than one in the hands of a foe. Good.
7. Other reasons that might be good or bad.

Based on straight numbers. Good outweighs Bad. If we get into the intrinsic value of each consequence, it gets a little complicated. I still think the Good outweighs the Bad. I'm looking at the far future. I think those of us that might be unnerved that Zyrr just killed a bunch of drow, would be able to look past that one action and see all the good that could come from it. Crippling the drow might give them a reason to seek help from others to stave off the encroaching illithid or beholder menace. Perhaps the females would need to rely on the males more in their time of need.

I think, in this case, the ends will justify the means. Feel free to discuss, disagree or agree as you see fit.

[Mando Knight]

Notes:
2.) We can't hurt the Fomorian anyway, so fighting him is moot. Aramil has a trick up his sleeve that he's going to try, but he's probably the only one that can.
5.) Who here wouldn't resurrect Zyrr?

Also, all Drow on this plane will die. Those remaining in the Underdark may be untouched...

[Orsik Vondal]

Notes:
2.) We can't hurt the Fomorian anyway, so fighting him is moot. Aramil has a trick up his sleeve that he's going to try, but he's probably the only one that can.
5.) Who here wouldn't resurrect Zyrr?

Also, all Drow on this plane will die. Those remaining in the Underdark may be untouched...

2. Yeah. I forgot about his aura-thing.

5. (Ash raises his hand. Then listens to the question again and quickly puts his hand down, looking around like a kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar...)

[Nai_Calus]

Eltain would be against raising him after that. And yeah, it doesn't do anything for the males. Most of whom are actually probably here as cannon fodder. Every drow in the Feywild dies. No chance of redemption, and there's no way to bring them back.

There's no 'good' side to indiscriminate mass genocide. It's an utterly evil thing to do with no amount of 'It's better this way' or 'Well we believe they are awful and deserve this' able to change that, and I'll shut up now because I'm about to invoke Godwin's Law. You can somewhat justify it if you're talking about things that are living incarnations of evil like demons/devils, but those are traditionally infinite and you aren't going to be able to kill all of them anyway.

[Hzurr]

Yep. This is definitely not a good act. Not necessarily an evil act, though. This falls very much in the Neutral category. Mass evil for a greater good? Definitely a neutral act, not a good one. My immediate thought is the use of nukes in Japan in WWII. Overall, significantly fewer people died than would have in a full invasion of Japan, doesn't mean it wasn't a horrific mass killing. I disagree with Nai that it's "utterly evil," but there's no way I'd accept that this is a good act. It very much relies on an "end justifies the means" argument.

Holding off posting til I get a chance to chat with Toric a bit this evening


And technically, it's not *every* drow that will die. Every drow has to make a saving throw vs death, so it'd be ~50%

[Mando Knight]

We are at war, however, and of the Drow on this plane, we would likely need to kill 50% or more of them anyway.

[Nai_Calus]

In combat. Not little kids falling over dead due to magical frakery. There's kind of a huge difference.

[Hzurr]

In combat. Not little kids falling over dead due to magical frakery. There's kind of a huge difference.


Wait...why are there suddenly Drow children? How'd they end up in the army?

[Nai_Calus]

http://qkme.me/3uuv4i

[Orsik Vondal]

Wait...why are there suddenly Drow children? How'd they end up in the army?

That's what I was thinking...:smallconfused:

I think of it like one of us unleashing a huge attack of our own making (e.g. Pavick suddenly opening a massive rift to the most deadly part of the Elemental Chaos and trying to shove the army through it) on the entire army down below and wiping out half of the drow combatants. The difference between us physically going down there and killing 50% of the drow and Zyrr doing his thing, is that there is a greater possibility of us surviving Zyrr's action.

We don't bat an eyelash when we kill devils. We probably won't flinch if we have to slay the fomorian. But it is the essentially the same choice. Kill or be killed. Slay one to save another. Destroy so that something else may be created.

There is a latin saying, "Dies irœ solvet sœclum in favilla...Dors stupebit c um resurget creatura". A day of wrath will dissolve the world into ashes...Death will be amazed as creation rises again. I, personally, take this phrase to heart. Sometimes out of the worst situations good things can come. And I think that this is one of those times.

[dariathalon]

I guess the biggest problem here is we have no idea how exactly this item works. Well, I guess OOC we have a little info, but next to none IC. So the exact ramifications will be difficult to determine. You've said OOC that there is a saving throw involved, but for all we know IC it may kill every drow. Also, does it only affect this plane or across all planes? (It has been suggested that it will only affect the feywild, but I don't think I've seen any confirmation from Hzurr.) If only this plane, then there probably aren't many children that will be caught in it, but if it effects other planes as well then there will be many more innocents lost.

[Orsik Vondal]

DM Post
"Tell me, which should I wipe out?" His other hand spins the Khopesh of Extinction, and his grip tightens. "The eladrin and I have a long enmity, but their civil war weakens them so I'm not certain it's necessary. The drow are my allies, but they have set their sites on ruling this world. Slaying this one would kill all the drow on this plane, which includes almost every soldier, priestess, and wizard. The drow would take millenia to recover." His evil eye flicks up towards Tiandra. "And there is always the Fey Lords, who have long schemed against me..."


The fomorian said only this plane. I don't know if his words can be trusted fully, though I'm inclined to believe him in this matter.

[dariathalon]

Ah, so you're right. I had missed that part of his message. Though, as you said, the fomorian isn't a trusted source of info.

[Hzurr]

Still haven't heard from Toric, but if any of y'all want to try and talk Zyrr out if it IC, now's the time.

[DSCrankshaw]

I guess it depends on two questions. Do the drow have permanent colonies in the Feydark? Is the Feydark within the area affected by the khopesh? The second seems likely. The Feydark is the same plane as the Feywild. I think that the first is true, but I'm not sure.

[Hzurr]

The feydark would be included in the range, but the drow don't really have colonies there, just military outposts (This is me going off memory from the underdark book, but I'm fairly certain that it's correct)

[Orsik Vondal]

And it's still a save versus death most likely, right? So there will still be some that save. Roughly 50%, right?

[DSCrankshaw]

In that case, I see this more as a nuke than genocide.

[Nai_Calus]

We don't know what the stats are. I have the book this comes from and there's no save. Although the original version also has no restrictions other than not working on anyone higher in level than the weapon.

There's three levels of the original item, a L17 that kills 1/4 of the population, a L22 that kills 1/2, and a L27 version that kills the entire population.

As far as the Feydark goes:

"Drow way stations and small settlements exist in both of these echo realms, as the loyal servants of Lolth aim to extend her web of influence."

"The drow also maintain a notable presence in the Feydark. They trade supplies and information with fomorians, and they use the dim tunnels to keep a close eye on their hated enemies, the eladrin."

And then some stuff about some ancient dead trees whose roots left tunnels and drow living in them.

So the drow do have enclaves and settlements in the Feydark. So yes, there are going to be drow children who keel over dead if this happens. :smalltongue:

Also Pavick is spot-on and a very intelligent gnome and we should all listen to him.

[Orsik Vondal]

And technically, it's not *every* drow that will die. Every drow has to make a saving throw vs death, so it'd be ~50%

This is where I got that 50% stat from. Straight from the horse's mouth. (No offense meant, Hzurr. :smallbiggrin:)

And I still think the outcome of this good enough to go ahead with it.

[Nai_Calus]

The outcome of this is horrible. :smallyuk: Mass death, even if there is a save, which will get innocents and even the good. (The Order of the Azure Star, which Eltain belongs to, is devoted to saving the drow and bringing them back to the light. There are going to be at least several of them on the plane at the moment.)

Even most of the soldiers probably aren't even that gung-ho for it. Oppressed males who know if they don't follow orders they'll die, so they go into battle hoping they'll win and live.

And yes, nuking Japan has been brought up. I find those bombings... Let's say morally objectionable and not delve into a rant that will make Eltain's longest Speech look like a three word sentence.

Basically, the mere idea manages to offend me personally. You are not going to be able to convince me it's a good idea in any sense of the word. And as dariathalon pointed out, the Fomorian guy wants this. What he wants, it's a good bet we don't want.

And we all know Hzurr is an ass, not a horse. Whether or not he flies is the question. :smallwink:

Edit: Look, for once Eltain isn't wall of texting more than everyone else. :smalltongue:

[DSCrankshaw]

Ultimately, it comes down to what Zyrr wants to do. If he wants out, we can get him out. If he wants to go through with it, I'm not sure we can stop him.

It may be that this version of the Khophesh of Extinction requires suicide. So whoever uses it must kill themselves in the process.

[Hzurr]

Ultimately, it comes down to what Zyrr wants to do. If he wants out, we can get him out. If he wants to go through with it, I'm not sure we can stop him.

The crazy thing is that all of us (including the DM), have absolutely no idea on what he'll end up doing. It's simultaneously the best and worst thing about RPGs.

[Hzurr]

Random d20 I need for reasons.

[roll0]

[Nai_Calus]

14

:smallannoyed:

[Orsik Vondal]

Ooooooooh snap! The tables have turned! What to do? What. To. Do?

[Toric]

Oh I know! Die!


....Wait I don't like that option. Plan B, anyone?

[Orsik Vondal]

I could pop one of my dailies to push him 3.

::edit:: Oh. Wait. I already used it last combat...:smallmad: Sooooo...Zyrr can use his awesome strength to flip the blade and stab Thrumbolg in the chest! :smallbiggrin:

Plan C: Eltain teleports Zyrr away, and since Zyrr is wielding the Khopesh, we have it, and Thrumbolg doesn't?

Plan D: Aramil uses his "trick", whatever it is.

Plan E: Pav teleports Thrumbolg to his special plane of existence.

Plan F: Pav kills himself and Thrumbolg with Baftis' Skull. We take the Khopesh and skedaddle with Tiandra.

Plan G: Something else.

[dariathalon]

Wait... The fomorian put the khopesh between his teeth then spoke to us. This can't go well.

[Hzurr]

Wait... The fomorian put the khopesh between his teeth then spoke to us. This can't go well.

They have very flexible lips.

Trust me, it's in the Monster Manual. No need to look and check, but it's definitely in there.

[Orsik Vondal]

Dar, can Pav severely debilitate Thrum's ability to save? I have power that can restrain him (save ends). That could give us some time to deal with the zombies.

[dariathalon]

Not really. Pavick's got a few things that can penalize saves, but it is mostly against stuff that he does. The only thing I can think of that will hurt him on saves other people cause requires an action point (which I used last fight).

[Orsik Vondal]

Okay. I'll try to restrain him for now. Then help with the zombies. It might be smart for us to put the zombies between us and Thrum. He'd probably take out a few for us.

[Nai_Calus]

Eltain's Fey Step is 11 squares, not 5, and he would have used all of it. :smalltongue:

Also, surely by now we've reached a milestone, yes? That bit with Mab totally counted as an encounter, right? <_>

Frank should also be on the map somewhere. You may use this to create a token:

http://www.iankunx.net/frankpony.png

[Hzurr]

- Yep, You do have an action point

- You and Frank share a square, and I'm never using that token, ever.

- I'm not redrawing the map, you didn't specify where you wanted to move.

*DM gavel*

[Nai_Calus]

- Cool
- I teleported with Zyrr, not Frank, and Pony!Frank is hilarious. I'm totally cool if you want to let me teleport with Frank though. :smallwink:
- I didn't specify because we didn't have a map and I figured 'get as far away as possible' was obvious. :smalltongue:

[Orsik Vondal]

If Ash misses by 3 or less, he's going to use Insightful Riposte to get a +3 to his attack.

[Mando Knight]

Cue the "No sale" (lack of) reaction...

[Orsik Vondal]

Cue the "No sale" (lack of) reaction...

Huh? :smallconfused: I don't get it.

[Mando Knight]

"No Sell" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoSell) is when you give it your all... and the opponent just shrugs it off. Comes from the term in pro wrestling and acting, where the "sell" is the expected reaction to a hit, used to convince the audience that it's a "real" fight.

[Nai_Calus]

I'm still confused, and I know what the term means since I used to watch wrestling. To what are you referring?

So is the khopesh restrained, or is it prone to the forced movement of being slapped out of his mouth? (Or alternately through his head, but I'm much less likely to try that. Though he'd have a great 'Do you wanna know how I got these scars?' story.

[Mando Knight]

I'm still confused, and I know what the term means since I used to watch wrestling. To what are you referring?

Referring to Asheroth's attack. I'd like to see if it "took" before I act...

[Orsik Vondal]

So is the khopesh restrained, or is it prone to the forced movement of being slapped out of his mouth? (Or alternately through his head, but I'm much less likely to try that. Though he'd have a great 'Do you wanna know how I got these scars?' story.

I do believe the khopesh is able to be manipulated. I have been trying to find some mention of disarming in the compendium, but can't. There are creatures who can make a PC drop what they are holding, essentially disarming them, but there are no rules that I can find for a PC disarming an enemy. I'll keep looking around.

::edit:: Looked on some forums. There are no 4e rules for disarming. What I did find was page 42 of the DMG - Actions the Rules Don't Cover. It would be some kind of check. Depending on how you do it, it could be a skill or ability check, opposed or unopposed as the DM sees fit.

How were you thinking of relieving Thrum of the Khopesh? Maybe you could make your check versus his Reflex to see if he can bite down fast enough to stop you. Or against his Fortitude to see if you can wrench it from his jaws.

[Hzurr]

Referring to Asheroth's attack. I'd like to see if it "took" before I act...

Ah, sorry, didn't realize you were waiting on that. I'll update now. And you are correct, this one didn't "take".



So is the khopesh restrained, or is it prone to the forced movement of being slapped out of his mouth?

Prone to forced movement, as in "via a power"? Nope. Slapped out of his mouth? Possible, but difficult (especially as he's something like 20 ft tall)

[Orsik Vondal]

And you are correct, this one didn't "take".


Awww man! :smallannoyed: I'm guessing +3 doesn't help, right? Oh well, at least he took half damage. :smallsigh: Which is probably no damage thanks to his un-dying-ness...:smallfurious:

[Hzurr]

Well...you can still use the +3 if you really want to hit Aramil, I guess.

Also, Asheroth can go ahead and roll his saving throw vs. being restrained.

[Orsik Vondal]

Ah poo!

[roll0]

::edit:: Bring it on ugly! :smallmad:

[Mando Knight]

Let me guess: he's allowed to take two Immediate actions per round?

[Hzurr]

Let me guess: he's allowed to take two Immediate actions per round?

Actually, no he isn't.

[Nai_Calus]

Yeah, the problem with 4e here is that since the inanimate object got a save against being teleported and made it, there really isn't anything to do to get it away from him, unless someone has a brilliant idea I don't. Aramil is the only one with any kind of chance of physically getting it. Rest of us are wimps incapable of making epic level DCs for strength checks so we're kind of sunk.

I demand if weapons get saving throws against teleport that they count as combatants and get to be affected by forced movement too. :smalltongue:

You didn't actually address my other questions, Hzurr. ;p

[Hzurr]

What other questions?

[Hzurr]

for those of you who are concerned, the immediate interrupt won't refresh til the start of the next round.

[Nai_Calus]

*points up* See: Frank.

Also, that that power is at-will does absolutely nothing to...

Ok, everyone delay next round until after Eltain. I have resist 30 cold, I can take my own Frostcheesed Eldritch Strike. Bluff check to act like it really really hurts? :p

[Hzurr]

*points up* See: Frank. Unless there's a specific reason for it, I assume y'all are in the same square (or adjacent).

[Nai_Calus]

...Yes, but I just teleported from on him with Zyrr and literally nothing in the game but the theme ability I just used on Zyrr or that one feat Aramil has lets you teleport with your mount. I'll merely be grumpy about the teleport distance thing, but it is of importance to actually know where the hell my mount is. :smalltongue:

So how about that bluff check idea? ;p

[Mando Knight]

Does Aramil now have the resources to turn into a highly mobile, hardy Striker once a day? Oh yes, yes he does.

[Nai_Calus]

You have a non-fey step you can use there? If we have to run you're the only one who can move Tiandra.

Also, sheesh, Aramil is out-strikering Eltain now with that thing. I can... Throw three d6 once a round at things I have cursed.

[Hzurr]

You have a non-fey step you can use there? If we have to run you're the only one who can move Tiandra.

Also, sheesh, Aramil is out-strikering Eltain now with that thing. I can... Throw three d6 once a round at things I have cursed.

Yep, but his is once per day for one encounter. Eltain can do it always. (though if it proves to be too ridiculous, I may consider scaling it down).



...Yes, but I just teleported from on him with Zyrr and literally nothing in the game but the theme ability I just used on Zyrr or that one feat Aramil has lets you teleport with your mount. I'll merely be grumpy about the teleport distance thing, but it is of importance to actually know where the hell my mount is.

I was handwaving it to make things easier, but if you really want to be specific, that means that Frank would have been adjacent to Zyrr, and would be in the blast reflected by Thrumbolg. So he'd be in G7, and was attacked with a [roll0] vs Ref, for 47 damage & restrained (miss half). I'll include his location in the next map update.

[Mando Knight]

Yep, but his is once per day for one encounter. Eltain can do it always. (though if it proves to be too ridiculous, I may consider scaling it down).

I love the 3d8, but it is a touch ridiculous when stacked with the enabling abilities Aramil has. And when combined with his own Bane Blade, which does much the same thing (but only 2d6).

The major drawback (besides the Daily usage) on both is that they only work on one creature type at a time, so if we fought, say, a bunch of giant spiders and some Drow at the same time, I'd have to pick between one or the other.

Also that if I burn all my encounter-long dailies in one fight, Hzurr would probably make us run into another major encounter before letting us take an extended rest. :smallwink:

[Orsik Vondal]

Also that if I burn all my encounter-long dailies in one fight, Hzurr would probably make us run into another major encounter before letting us take an extended rest. :smallwink:

Cue maniacal villain laugh. :smallamused::smallsigh::smallamused:

And I'm wondering if Thrum can choose the target of his mirror attack? If it's always the first attack, then we should let the drow attack first. Otherwise, still working on a plan.

[Nai_Calus]

If it's always the first attack Eltain can't do more than 9 damage to himself with Eldritch Strike and will average about 2.

Hence it's not always the first attack, as otherwise Eltain going first each round to stab himself would make it too easy. Or it's only ranged/area.

[Orsik Vondal]

If it's always the first attack Eltain can't do more than 9 damage to himself with Eldritch Strike and will average about 2.

Hence it's not always the first attack, as otherwise Eltain going first each round to stab himself would make it too easy. Or it's only ranged/area.

Soooooo...it can't be the first attack that gets reflected, because it's not the worst scenario possible? :smallconfused: Huh!? Hzurr ain't that dastardly. <---That's my new word for the day. :smallbiggrin:

From the title of the power it sounds like it can reflect just about any attack. We might want to leave him for last, just to mitigate wasting one attack per turn. Put the priestesses in between him and us. :smallwink:

[Hzurr]

Well, if you have an immediate action that you can use every round, are you required to use it the first chance you can?

Also, you should probably remember that this guy knows who you are, he's crafty, and it most likely bright enough to know that reflecting an ice attack against the guy who is snowing *might* not be the most useful idea.

[Nai_Calus]

Which is exactly my point. If it had to be the first one it would be trivial to ignore because Eltain can generally stab himself in the gut and have it only mildly tickle. Hence having it be the first one in the round would be awkward design here, since you're more of an evil bastard than that. :smalltongue: Although Eltain is not currently snowing and he doesn't know exactly how much cold resist I have. :p

[Orsik Vondal]

Also, you should probably remember that this guy knows who you are, he's crafty, and it most likely bright enough to know that reflecting an ice attack against the guy who is snowing *might* not be the most useful idea.

Sounds like if we swarm him he'll just block our punches into the faces of the rest of us Kung Fu Hustle style. Once again, I say, save him for last. If we know he can reflect our attacks, let get rid of everyone else and gang him later. Possibly even have him take out some of the zombies, too! :smallbiggrin:

[Nai_Calus]

Did you miss the part where we can't actually kill him? That's why I asked Mando if he could save his Fey Step for when we have to run so we can actually take Tiandra with us when we need to run.

The way I see it we need to figure out some way of getting the khopesh away from him, probably only Aramil can do it since he's the only one with STR and Hzurr confirmed we can't use powers to try to move it which leaves trying to wrestle it physically. Then we need to get the hell out since 'You cannot win this fight' has been telegraphed in neon letters at us.

[DSCrankshaw]

Eh, I'm not convinced. There's a difference between not being able to kill him, and not being able to hurt him. The verdict isn't in yet on whether we can hurt him. If we can hurt him, we may be able to knock him unconscious.

[Nai_Calus]

Well, he has 'encounter you're supposed to run from' all over him. Lore that points to being of the sort of boss enemy who needs a Quest Item to defeat? Check. Ridiculous abilities that lend to not being able to effectively fight him?(Who wants to waste a daily and get seriously hurt by it this round? Frank's down to 17 HP in that one hit)

I'd rather not be obsessed with taking down a monster that has a giant neon sign over his head saying that's not a good idea or even necessarily possible. Let's figure out what if anything we can do to get that khopesh, figure out another way to move Tiandra since we can't teleport with her now, shoot our portal gun and GTFO. Unwinnable encounter you're supposed to run from is a valid design element.

[Mando Knight]

Cloak of Translocation allows Aramil to refresh Fey Step if needed.

[DSCrankshaw]

So out of curiosity, how thick do you think the floor is?

[Orsik Vondal]

So out of curiosity, how thick do you think the floor is?

1. Remove the floor below Thrum.
2. Watch him plummet to the forest floor. :smallamused:
3a. If he dies:smallbiggrin:, go down and retrieve the Khopesh.
3b. If he lives:smallannoyed:, drop heavy things on him until he does. THEN retrieve the Khopesh. :smallamused:
4. GTFO. :smallbiggrin: :smallwink:

[Hzurr]

So out of curiosity, how thick do you think the floor is?

See, when you ask a question like that, I feel conflicted. My inner DM is thinking "Oh no, what the $%^@#%$ are they going to try?" and my inner player is thinking "MUAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Floor is transparent, made of a hard, glass like-substance, but without the slickness of glass (you'd need time to study it to find out it's exact nature). You guess it probably isn't too think (maybe just 2-3 inches), but it seems fairly strong.

[DSCrankshaw]

I was just thinking about how much of a pain it was to get to the top of this tree. And maybe it would be nice if we could make it someone else's problem. I don't think it would kill Thrumbolg, but I bet it would buy us some time.

[Orsik Vondal]

I don't think it would kill Thrumbolg, but I bet it would buy us some time.

Yeeeaaaah, buddy! :smallcool:

[Mando Knight]

I can give him a 20% chance of falling to his doom, better if someone can force him to auto-fail his save...

[Orsik Vondal]

Or possibly "kill" him for at least one round while he falls to the bottom of the tree...Dar, I'm lookin' at you.

[Orsik Vondal]

Dar, what is the wording on the Skull of Baftis power that kills you and a target creature? I think I may have figured out a way to get the Khopesh from Thrum.

Depending on what the power says, we might be able to use that power making sure to have at least two other characters near Thrum. If it works on him, one of the near by characters can swipe the blade while he's unconscious, and we can high tail it outta here. Or if we have enough time, we could try and use the blade on a helpless Thrum. No one seemed opposed to killing all the fomorians, and it would cripple the drow invasion. Any thoughts?

[Nai_Calus]

Rolling fail, derp.

[roll0]
[roll1][roll2]

...I hate you so very much, forum roller. So, so very much. :smallfurious:

[Nai_Calus]

Frak it, AP:

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

You are fscking kidding me. (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ *ragequit*

[Orsik Vondal]

Not to be a sourpuss, but since Frank was caught in my reflected attack, he is restrained. :smallfrown:

[Hzurr]

Wow....that is some impressively bad rolling.

Y'all's ability to piss off a random number generator is staggering.

To keep things moving, I'll give Toric through tonight to post, if not I'll post for him and update everything.

[Nai_Calus]

Orsik: Ah, right. Forgot about that. Well then.

Eh, I've accepted that the forum roller is determined to make Eltain completely incompetent and useless. It's been that way since the beginning. Oh well, par for the course, it's not like he's good for anything anyway even when the roller doesn't bone him. It is massively discouraging though, Eltain has never once been of the slightest damn use in combat and might as well not be there for all the good he doesn't do. It's almost pointless to play him.

[dariathalon]

The power in question says... "Minor Action. You and one living creature you can see die (save ends). The first creature to make its saving throw deals necrotic and psychic damage to the other equal to twice the your level."

I've pretty much given up on it working however, since he's supposedly immortal. If fragarach is needed to deal the killing blow, I doubt that my orb can do it. Otherwise I would have done it before now.

[Orsik Vondal]

It is massively discouraging though, Eltain has never once been of the slightest damn use in combat and might as well not be there for all the good he doesn't do. It's almost pointless to play him.

Say whaaaaat!? :smallconfused: Eltain totally saved Zyrr from death! Plus, he is one of the most mobile characters I've ever seen. If anyone is a waste of RPG flesh around here, it's Thrum. :smallsigh: So let's trick him, beat him, steal from him, or whatever we have to do to beat this encounter! :smallwink:

[Orsik Vondal]

The power in question says... "Minor Action. You and one living creature you can see die (save ends). The first creature to make its saving throw deals necrotic and psychic damage to the other equal to twice the your level."

I've pretty much given up on it working however, since he's supposedly immortal. If fragarach is needed to deal the killing blow, I doubt that my orb can do it. Otherwise I would have done it before now.

(*Shrugs his shoulders*) It might not hurt to try. What if the Skull's power doesn't kill him, but merely knocks him out? If we can knock him unconscious, we can steal the Khopesh. It is an epic tier item. It's also the skull of a high level infernal wizard no less. It might do something to him that's beneficial for us.

[Mando Knight]

Of course, if it just so happened that Baftis had subsumed the soul of one of Thrumbolg's sons, it might be enough to qualify for the prophecy. :smalltongue:

[Orsik Vondal]

So...Hzurr, how did each of Thrum's sons die again? :smallwink:

I know this would probably fall under the category of "You would have to use the item in that particular way to figure out if it works like that", but if Pav used the death power on a truly epic immortal creature, I would think that if it didn't out right die, at least the creature would be knocked unconscious or something. That's just my opinion, though.

[Nai_Calus]

Eh, we could try it. Probably won't work, but we seem to not have much in the way of ideas anyway, so it's worth a shot.

No sense in being pessimistic, it wouldn't work anyway.

[Hzurr]

Well this is awkward. Was getting ready to update, when I realized that since they packed all my stuff this morning to ship overseas, it included my desktop where I have the files for the map and monster stat blocks saved. Give me a bit while I recreate them (or hope that I was smart enough to put them on a thumb drive)

[Nai_Calus]

*golfclap* :smalltongue:

You could probably get a clean one using bits of the posted ones for this fight and the ones for the last time it was used if nothing else.

[Orsik Vondal]

Since Ash is restrained, and Thrum is out of reach, and if Ash damages him, Ash will take damage, Ash is going to try three times for the healing ward. Unless Ash crits and Hzurr let's awesome things happen, Ash will not be hitting the hard DC. I think if we burst Arcana/Thievery his wards off in one turn, we can scare the bejeezus outta Thrum. Pav, Aramil, and Eltain each have a great chance to get the moderate and good chance to get the hard DC for Arcana. Zyrr same for Thievery. Lucan and Ash are kind of in the same boat for Arcana with a decent chance to hit the moderate DC. And Lucan has a 25% chance for the moderate Thievery DC.

If we could take down most of the wards in one turn, I think we can turn this fight completely around. I am still of the mind that once we get the wards down, Pav should use his item power. If it works, it would be easier to take the khopesh and kill Thrum.

::edit:: Well, I got 1/3 of the ward down. And since Ash is still restrained, next turn will be identical, unless Ash is almost dead. Then he will heal as well.

[Hzurr]

Ok, fine. Y'all get the most ghetto map ever. Tired of trying to do it on a tablet.

Also, I realized I left out the note about needing to be adjacent to Thrumbolg to try and disable wards, so that's been added in now (since I didn't have that info in there when Ash went, his disable attempt is still valid, so the regen ward is partially down). Remember you can only drop 1 ward/round.

[Mando Knight]

Well, Aramil's in for a world of pain.

Personally, I would have turned off the reflect or mobility wards first. The regen ward is annoying, but it doesn't directly cause any DPS.

[Orsik Vondal]

Remember you can only drop 1 ward/round.

Does this mean that:
1) collectively we have to now drop the healing ward first?
2) Aramil can try to drop a different ward?
3) if we drop one ward with a minor action, that same character cannot attempt to drop another ward that turn?

[Hzurr]

So right now, you're one-third of the way towards disarming the healing ward. If someone (Pavick, Eltain, whoever) decide to focus on a different ward, the healing ward will re-assert itself, and you'd need to start over next round on it.

[Orsik Vondal]

Ahhh. Gotcha. If you guys think it's better to do the reflect ward first (which after thinking would be better for us), go for it. I only got one third of the healing down.

[Nai_Calus]

Eltain has nothing useful to do anyway so he will teleport adjacent and try to kill the reflect ward.

Edit: Somehow, I am not surprised. Too bad I can't make the standard count towards the three minors.

[dariathalon]

Actually, that was a lot of help. Getting the ward 1/3 of the way down allowed Pavick to automatically succeed on finishing it up. Since he was not adjacent to the fomorian at the start of his turn, Pavick would have needed to use a standard action to tear it down (and after the last combat's dropping the construct, I'm gunshy about having Pavick try Arcana checks). Pavick has a good chance of success, but his odds of it working out are low with this forum roller. This way I didn't even need to roll.

[Nai_Calus]

Yeah, I figured even when the roller inevitably failed me, Eltain only needs a 2 to hit the DC for the minor. Which, granted, given recent rolls...

[Hzurr]

Oh, a few points on the map, since aparently there was confusion

PCs are in bold, and represented by the first three letters of their names (Elt = Eltain, Ash = Asheroth, etc). The golden area is the zone that Asheroth had reflected at him, that's difficult terrain. D is drow, T is Thrumbolg, Cold Iron is the Cold Iron throne, Tia is Tiandra.

Any questions?

Also, Frank needs to make a saving throw vs. restrained.

Hmm...and out of curiosity, how many hitpoints does Yuri have?

[Nai_Calus]

Oops, forgot about that. Let's see how stubborn a pegamule is:

[roll0] (Last round)
[roll1] (This round)

[DSCrankshaw]

Yuri has half of Lucan's max hit points. He was at maximum at the beginning of this round.

[DSCrankshaw]

Bah. I can't seem to hit anything, but that was the least part of what I was doing this round.

[dariathalon]

I am seriously considering expending Pavick's blessing from Sehanine to try to avoid that dominate. Opinions? Do you think it's worth doing? For those that don't remember:

Consumable - Immediate Interrupt
Trigger: You are hit by an attack.
Effect: You become invisible until the end of your next turn. The attacker must re-roll the attack.

[Mando Knight]

Go for it.

(Also note that invisibility grants you Total Concealment unless that nasty Evil Eye of his gives him true sight...)

[Hzurr]

(Also note that invisibility grants you Total Concealment unless that nasty Evil Eye of his gives him true sight...)

Yep, Formorians can see invisible creatures (which is why they were able to enslave gnomes). He'd still have to reroll, though.

[DSCrankshaw]

It would definitely be in our best interests for you to avoid being dominated.

[dariathalon]

Alright, what the heck. I'll use it. Posting IC to reflect that shortly.

[Nai_Calus]

*high five* Hah, awesome.

[Mando Knight]

I'd like some official (for this game, anyway) rulings on the following:

Booming Blade and damage bonuses: do they all apply to the secondary damage roll, making it a potentially very powerful threat, or would you like to impose specific restrictions (i.e. permanent static bonuses add to the secondary damage, but temporary bonuses or bonuses that say "on hit" only apply to the initial damage roll)? "Technically," it's a damage roll that's caused by hitting with a power, and is limited by requiring the target to willingly move away during their turn after starting their turn next to Aramil.
Versatile weapons and a free hand: what kind of actions are they to grab and drop the blade with the off-hand for that +1 to damage if the hand's already free? (Versatile is a rather weak property anyway, since dedicated 2H weapons almost always deal still more damage, the property does nothing for a sword & board fighter, and Small creatures need to two-hand the weapon to use it at all.)

[Hzurr]

I'd like some official (for this game, anyway) rulings on the following:

Booming Blade and damage bonuses: do they all apply to the secondary damage roll, making it a potentially very powerful threat, or would you like to impose specific restrictions (i.e. permanent static bonuses add to the secondary damage, but temporary bonuses or bonuses that say "on hit" only apply to the initial damage roll)? "Technically," it's a damage roll that's caused by hitting with a power, and is limited by requiring the target to willingly move away during their turn after starting their turn next to Aramil.

Nope, static bonuses don't apply to that secondary damage roll. If it did, it basically becomes like you get a free secondary attack that doesn't require a roll, which is more than an at-will should do. That damage is meant to be a slight reminder, not a heavy enforcer to stop creatures from moving away. Besides, you already have a mechanic to stop creatures from moving away from you, it's called your Aegis.


Versatile weapons and a free hand: what kind of actions are they to grab and drop the blade with the off-hand for that +1 to damage if the hand's already free? (Versatile is a rather weak property anyway, since dedicated 2H weapons almost always deal still more damage, the property does nothing for a sword & board fighter, and Small creatures need to two-hand the weapon to use it at all.)

grabbing the blade is a minor action, dropping the hand is a free action. Normally I wouldn't care that much (I mean, what's a +1 bonus to damage at this point in the game?), but there are enough feats that key off of either using a two-handed weapon, or having a free offhand that I want to keep that slight action cost in there (though you could always take quickdraw to negate it).

[Hzurr]

Grabbing a creature who can teleport at-will may not be the wisest choice, but the mental image of the drow jumping on the Formorian back like a bull rider struck me as something that Toric would do.

[Orsik Vondal]

but the mental image of the drow jumping on the Formorian back like a bull rider struck me as something that Toric would do.

Agreed. That sounds about right.

[Hzurr]

Oh. Right. We're waiting on me.

My brain hasn't exactly been working this week.

[Orsik Vondal]

So the healing ward is still working? I thought Eltain and Pavinck took it down. 3 minor actions, right? Or does he have a secondary healing factor we missed? :smallconfused:

[Hzurr]

So the healing ward is still working? I thought Eltain and Pavinck took it down. 3 minor actions, right? Or does he have a secondary healing factor we missed? :smallconfused:

Only Asheroth tried to take down the healing ward. Everyone else decided that was a dumb choice, and took down the reflexive ward.

[Mando Knight]

Mainly because without the other two wards, the healing ward is no match for a dedicated assault.

[DSCrankshaw]

So can that Khopesh cut through the ice? Suddenly that ice isn't useful in stopping anything anymore.

[Hzurr]

So can that Khopesh cut through the ice?

Hmm...Can it?

[Mando Knight]

Does he appear to believe he's telling the truth?
[roll0]

Aramil doesn't know!

[Orsik Vondal]

That's right. And I forgot that I agreed with their decision...:smallredface:

Also, if Ash fails his save vs. restrained, Thrum just wasted an action. Will Ash be able to take his save? Can he intentionally fail it? The original attack restrained creatures because of a verbal compulsion from Ash. It has nothing to do with breaking free from physical bonds, and now that Ash's mind is dominated, would he have the faculties to struggle against the restraint? Dominated creatures can only take one action per turn and are limited to at-will powers, suggesting a limited command of the mind dominated.

Right now, Ash is restrained. I'm not sure if you can pick up an object while restrained, but Ash won't be able to move this turn anyway. Thrum's turn rolls around, the domination ends, he'll most likely dominate again, then Ash moves, assuming he has broken free from the restrained condition at the end of this current turn.

So, assuming Ash saves this turn, you guys have one turn to get the drow priestess away from Ash. Apparently, if you get too close to Tiandra, you freeze. Pav, now might be a good time to "kill" him.

[dariathalon]

Pavick, as a master of the bluff, isn't buying this bluff. If he could have killed Tiandra, he would have by now.

I don't think that now is the right time to "kill" him. That power of the orb is something I really don't ever want to have to use during combat, and with some of his wards still up, I don't know that it will work anyway.

By the way, is anyone else reminded of this?


http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/dariathalon/king_hippo.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/dariathalon/media/king_hippo.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/dariathalon/King-Hippo-Forever-1.gif (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/dariathalon/media/King-Hippo-Forever-1.gif.html)

[Hzurr]

By the way, is anyone else reminded of this?


http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/dariathalon/king_hippo.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/dariathalon/media/king_hippo.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q179/dariathalon/King-Hippo-Forever-1.gif (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/dariathalon/media/King-Hippo-Forever-1.gif.html)

Well...I wasn't thinking of that before, but I most definitely am now.

[Nai_Calus]

I call BS. He's using an obvious desperation tactic. We established that he needs someone to tell him who to use it on, if it could cut through the ice there wouldn't have needed to be a ritual to drill a hole in it to begin with, an argument could be made for him being an archfey, he's trying to have the drow priestess brought over - Zyrr already said Drow but Eltain got him out of the way, trying a different target? Plus Pavick noticed earlier the aura of magic around it was dimming, yes? Plus we just snapped one of his wards and are being jerks about getting dominated.

We can always kill the priestess ourselves if worse comes to worse. Eltain'd be a bit sad about shanking someone who's unconscious, but better one priestess than all the drow.

[Mando Knight]

So, assuming Ash saves this turn, you guys have one turn to get the drow priestess away from Ash. Apparently, if you get too close to Tiandra, you freeze. Pav, now might be a good time to "kill" him.

You can only take one action while dominated, and Aramil's a lot stronger than Asheroth is.

[DSCrankshaw]

Let's see if Lucan notices anything about whether Thrumbolg is telling the truth:

[roll0]

[Mando Knight]

Aramil can get in melee with him again, but not without either run + charge or switching to the wrong mark. He needs an extra minor action... or if he can be slid 1 square...

[Orsik Vondal]

Pleeeeeeeeease, somebody call BS on Thrum! I think it would be funniest if it came from Pav.

I agree that if Thrum was going to kill someone with the Khopesh, he would have done it already. In our little stand-off he is now at a disadvantage. One of his wards is gone. Where he is standing now, his healing ward is pretty much negated. And he has one less weapon. (by the way, someone might want to pick that javelin up. Ash will if he ever saves vs. restrained. :smallannoyed:)

[Nai_Calus]

Eltain will play the world's smallest violin for Aramil and his accursed marks. I forgot how much Aramil renders anything Defender-y Eltain does worthless.

It's too bad we don't have someone in the party who has as much cold resist as the Prince of Frost who might be able to put up work cold BS. Oh wait.

Eltain would like to take that javelin and shove it in this jerk's ugly eye, but he has 10 STR.

[DSCrankshaw]

Lucan can slide 1 with majestic word. Who needs healing besides Aramil?

[Mando Knight]

Playing through Neverwinter, and in case the others of you playing haven't found the letter in Rothé Valley...

Grandmother,
I am writing to ask you to stop sending assassins after the family. You have none to blame but yourself for driving mother to flee for not sacrificing father, and you cannot blame either of them for never wanting to return. Your dynastic politics have no meaning for us in Neverwinter, we are free of it and want no part. It is a different world up here, and we have a new future before us, so leave us be.

Mother still sends her love. Father, and I quote, "hopes every day that hag gets her treacherous brain sucked out by a mind flayer."

Your Grandson,
Imbross

P.S. - Your last band of assassins were slain with the aid of an elven paladin of Corellon. Her name is Ayriisha, and the two of us will be wed next spring. So your efforts haven't been for nothing, I suppose.

The postscript is my favorite bit. :smalltongue:

[Nai_Calus]

Heh, yeah, I loved that bit when I played through that area a while back with my Rogue. Eltain also approves greatly. (And so do half my FR characters I've had in the past. Especially the drow cleric of Corellon.)

What server are you on? Hzurr and I play on Beholder. I'm @naicalus and you can take a wild guess what his username is there. Got a L60 TR named Veldrin and a L41 DC named, unorginally enough, Eltain.

[Mando Knight]

I'm on Dragon. Because it's called "Dragon."

[Hzurr]

Let's see if Lucan notices anything about whether Thrumbolg is telling the truth:

[roll0]

You suspect not everything he's saying is kosher.


Also, for those of you wanting to pick up the javelin, you have noticed that it's been magically returning to him whenever he wants it.

[Orsik Vondal]

Can Pav throw it into his personal plane? I doubt Thrum could retrieve it then.

[Mando Knight]

You suspect not everything he's saying is kosher.

With his breath, I'd be surprised if anything he says is kosher! :smalltongue:

(Alternately, "What did you expect, from such a supremacist pig?")

[dariathalon]

Pavick's own personal plane is still in the planning stages. His epic destiny says he'll eventually make one, but it doesn't seem like he has access to it for a few more levels.

If you're talking about his sequester spell, that just uses a nearby available pocket dimension. I might be able to target the javelin with that (might because it normally only affects a creature), and even then it will return on a successful saving throw.

[DSCrankshaw]

It'd be more useful to target Thrum that way than his javelin. Then we could get in position to surround him and bring down those wards when he reappears. Also, we could make him reappear someplace that wasn't next to Tiandra (assuming someone takes up position where he currently is).

[Orsik Vondal]

Just to reiterate my question: Can Ash choose to fail his save? If not, that's fine. Because...

Ash has not picked up the priestess yet. That will take a minor action (1 turn), so Thrum will have to dominate Ash again to get the priestess. DS, if you can slide Ash back, that will add another turn to the process (move adjacent to priestess, pick up priestess, move to Thrum).

[Hzurr]

Just to reiterate my question: Can Ash choose to fail his save? You're dominated, I'm not certain you get any say in the matter.

[Orsik Vondal]

In that case, Lucan can drop some healing on Ash and slide him away from the priestess. As long as we all stay at least one square away from her, Thrum will be spinning his wheels trying to get her to himself.

[DSCrankshaw]

Before I do, are you sure you want to spend my healing that way? You and Aramil are still in pretty good shape. I'll be providing more healing than you really need, and I'll have just one more use of Majestic Word left after doing this.

[Orsik Vondal]

I just realized that since Ash is restrained, he can't be moved anyway. :smalltongue:

[Nai_Calus]

I can slide one of them one square and make them need healing, but that's probably not ideal and with my dice luck lately I doubt Eltain could hit Aramil.

Eltain: Has crazy cold resist. Has lots of forced movement. Can teleport crazy distances trivially.

Pretty sure I can manage to get him away from Tiandra if the dice cooperate.

I can charge him this turn, might even be able to charge him on Frank, or I can also move closer and range attack.

[Orsik Vondal]

I can slide one of them one square and make them need healing, but that's probably not ideal and with my dice luck lately I doubt Eltain could hit Aramil.

Eltain: Has crazy cold resist. Has lots of forced movement. Can teleport crazy distances trivially.

Pretty sure I can manage to get him away from Tiandra if the dice cooperate.

I can charge him this turn, might even be able to charge him on Frank, or I can also move closer and range attack.

I might not do that if I were you. The priestesses died when they got close. Drop his healing ward and watch him squirm.

[Mando Knight]

I might not do that if I were you. The priestesses died when they got close. Drop his healing ward and watch him squirm.

We have to get next to him to drop the ward anyway.

[Nai_Calus]

Eltain isn't a minion. :smalltongue: Also, Eltain's been up close with this thing before, shortly after it got created. Also, Eltain's got Resist 30 Cold. And yes, we have to be adjacent anyway. :P

[Orsik Vondal]

Thrum's healing is barely staving off the cold. He heals 50 each turn. So the cold damage is somewhere around that number. So Eltain would be taking around 20 damage each turn plus whatever attack Thrum throws his way. I still think we should down his healing ward to make his current plan extremely uncomfortable. I bet we could get close on his right side relatively "safely".

[Nai_Calus]

*sigh* Really.

I forgot to put where I was going to slide him to, but I guess it doesn't matter. :/ Gods I hate the forum roller. I swear Eltain could just keel over dead and it would matter not at all because he is completely, utterly, totally worthless.

[Orsik Vondal]

Don't wait for Ash to do anything. He's dominated. He'll act last.

[DSCrankshaw]

Are we waiting on Lucan? I wasn't clear on that.

[Nai_Calus]

Pretty sure we're in a new round and Eltain's the only one who's gone yet. This two turns a round for the solo thing really doesn't work well in PbP, it's confusing as hell.

I'm now not at all sure it's actually a new round.

[Orsik Vondal]

It is a new round. Eltain is the only one to have acted yet.

[DSCrankshaw]

So I rolled 3 times this round, on 7 different dice, and each time I rolled a 14 or 15. That's odd.

[DSCrankshaw]

Also, I'm not entirely clear whether the Eye of Retribution effect is still on Lucan, but I guess now's as good a time as any to see if it still works if Yuri's doing the attacking.

[Hzurr]

So I rolled 3 times this round, on 7 different dice, and each time I rolled a 14 or 15. That's odd.

Heh, no need to rub salt in Nai's wounds :smalltongue:

So one person still needs to go before the midround.

Also, I've finally moved to Scotland, so my posts may start coming in at weird times

[Mando Knight]

Also, I've finally moved to Scotland, so my posts may start coming in at weird times

Hooray for you! Here's some bagpipes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBKBI7DOLHA) to celebrate.

[Orsik Vondal]

Now you have to introduce a dwarf NPC, so you can write in a Scottish accent!

[Hzurr]

DSC,

Can you verify how many HP Yuri currently has? He's taken some damage, but I can't tell if he's healed any yet.

[Nai_Calus]

Now you have to introduce a dwarf NPC, so you can write in a Scottish accent!

No. :smallannoyed:

Dwarves are Irish, damn it. Look how much they drink.*

* I have Irish ancestry and am thus allowed to make jokes about this. Also Scottish, Welsh, and English. I am repulsively British. Also Spanish, German, French and 1/64th or so Cherokee.

[Orsik Vondal]

No. :smallannoyed:

Dwarves are Irish, damn it. Look how much they drink.*

* I have Irish ancestry and am thus allowed to make jokes about this. Also Scottish, Welsh, and English. I am repulsively British. Also Spanish, German, French and 1/64th or so Cherokee.

I'm also Irish and German. And African American. :smallbiggrin: Yeah. My students get confused too. I have an Irish and a German flag hung up in my classroom. They always ask why. Then they get confused looks on their faces. So I put up a pirate flag as well. I tell them that I'm part pirate, since my last name is Morgan. :smallwink:

[dariathalon]

I just tell people I'm a European mutt. A little bit of most everything in my ancestry somewhere it seems.

[Hzurr]

...so I'm a moron.

I was waiting to find out how healthy Yuri looked, since that would determine whether or not Thrumbolg reflected his attack, because somehow my brain selectively forgot that y'all had already disabled that ability.

I blame jetlag.

IC post coming soon.

[Hzurr]

Guys. I think Nai broke the forum roller. Or at least rubbed his luck off on Thrumbolg.

[Orsik Vondal]

I blame jetlag.

Just in case jetlag is still rearing its ugly head: Ash is currently dominated. :smallbiggrin:

[DSCrankshaw]

Maybe Zyrr should try pick pocketing Thrumbolg's mid-round action. Seems like that would even the odds quite a bit.

[Hzurr]

Just in case jetlag is still rearing its ugly head: Ash is currently dominated. :smallbiggrin:

Ash has his orders, He's supposed to bring the unconscious priestess to Thrumbolg. I'll leave it up to you how you want to write that out.

[Nai_Calus]

The correct response to all attempts to make you roll dice or write up dominated actions is to point out that you aren't controlling your character, the DM is, and shove rolling/writing/describing it back on to him.

[Orsik Vondal]

The correct response to all attempts to make you roll dice or write up dominated actions is to point out that you aren't controlling your character, the DM is, and shove rolling/writing/describing it back on to him.

I will take that under advisement next time. But when I write something I usually get what I ask for. Hence, my next statement: Screw you, Thrum! I bite my thumb at you! :smallamused: :smalltongue:

[dariathalon]

By the way, Pavick is intentionally waiting (delaying) to go after all the other PCs this turn. I think we're down to me and Toric now to go. Just let me know when you want me to post.

[Nai_Calus]

Josh has been super-busy this week; he wasn't even on Y!IM today. If he's on tomorrow I'll poke him.

[Orsik Vondal]

Is this the week he gets married?

[Nai_Calus]

No, that's later this month.

[Hzurr]

By the way, Pavick is intentionally waiting (delaying) to go after all the other PCs this turn. I think we're down to me and Toric now to go. Just let me know when you want me to post.

I'll post for Zyrr early tomorrow morning my time (so...really, really late tonight for y'all). He'll take the advice given, and try to remove the haste buff.

[DSCrankshaw]

Now if Pavick were to take his healing buff down, he'd be especially vulnerable.

[Orsik Vondal]

Now if Pavick were to take his healing buff down, he'd be especially vulnerable.

Muahahahahahahaha! :smallamused:

[dariathalon]

Unfortunately, I believe Hzurr said only one ward can be taken down per round. Am I remembering that correctly? If not I'll gladly try to take it down (though it would require an action point so I can use my planeshifter ability to get close enough to him.) I'll wait to act until I can get verification on this.

[Nai_Calus]

Yes, it's one per round, it's been verified several times.

[Hzurr]

Unfortunately, I believe Hzurr said only one ward can be taken down per round. Am I remembering that correctly? If not I'll gladly try to take it down (though it would require an action point so I can use my planeshifter ability to get close enough to him.) I'll wait to act until I can get verification on this.

Yep, this is correct.

[dariathalon]

A 1 on a daily, just great. The roller really does hate us. At least it isn't a very impressive daily in my opinion.

[DSCrankshaw]

I can fix that, if you think it's worth it.

[Hzurr]

I can fix that, if you think it's worth it.

I'll wait til Dariathalon responds before I have the IC post.

Also, Pavick's reply cracks me up, because this guy has been talking so much trash, but y'all have completely shut him down. It's awesome.

[dariathalon]

Nah. Probably not worth it. It is only a couple of extra dice of damage and what amounts to ongoing 20 instead of 10 (which with this guy's saving throw bonuses I don't expect to go on for long anyway). I mainly just used it because it was a pretty high damage (for me) single target attack with a good range.

[Nai_Calus]

Yo dawg, I herd u like portals, so I put portals in your portals so you can portal while you portal.

[Orsik Vondal]

And I think someone should make a crack about Ash just standing around being lazy. :smalltongue:

[DSCrankshaw]

I've been reading up on the 13th Age RPG. It sounds like a fun gaming system. It has a lot more story-crunch than a lot of d20 systems, and by reducing the number of levels (only 10 in all), they make each level advancement more significant. Some of the world-building sounds a little silly though (like living dungeons rising from the depths of the earth).

[Orsik Vondal]

I've been reading up on the 13th Age RPG. It sounds like a fun gaming system. It has a lot more story-crunch than a lot of d20 systems, and by reducing the number of levels (only 10 in all), they make each level advancement more significant. Some of the world-building sounds a little silly though (like living dungeons rising from the depths of the earth).

I just read a review of 13th Age, and it does sound pretty good. I like the idea of abstract combat. Makes it seem more realistic, not having to calculate distances and being untimely thwarted on a majestic charge by a bit-o-rubble.

[Nai_Calus]

What are we waiting on? I thought everyone had gone.

[Orsik Vondal]

What are we waiting on? I thought everyone had gone.

Hzurr. :smallannoyed:

[DSCrankshaw]

I just read a review of 13th Age, and it does sound pretty good. I like the idea of abstract combat. Makes it seem more realistic, not having to calculate distances and being untimely thwarted on a majestic charge by a bit-o-rubble.

After reading the class descriptions, I kind of want to build a dwarf bard in 13th Age now. I bet that would be fun.

It seems like a cross between 4th and 5th edition, with some more RP elements thrown in.

[Orsik Vondal]

It seems like a cross between 4th and 5th edition, with some more RP elements thrown in.

5th! When is that supposed to come out?

[Mando Knight]

5th! When is that supposed to come out?

When they're done making sure they've included as many esoteric elements from previous editions as they can to drive away as many players as possible. :smalltongue:

[Orsik Vondal]

When they're done making sure they've included as many esoteric elements from previous editions as they can to drive away as many players as possible. :smalltongue:

I meant AFTER that...:smallwink: I know they've ben pushing that Next Gen stuff and playtesting. You think they'll roll it out at GenCon?

[Nai_Calus]

Hzurr. :smallannoyed:

Oh right. Pesky Jons. Get to work, DM. :smallmad:


When they're done making sure they've included as many esoteric elements from previous editions as they can to drive away as many players as possible. :smalltongue:

Except for 4E because oh gods we can't have anything from 4E like I don't know non-useless Clerics. (I recently played a Next cleric at a gameday. It was exactly why I never play 3E clerics. Hey cool spells... That I'm not even going to look at because I know all five of these spell slots I've got at L4 will be going to heal spells while I hit things repeatedly with my mace because my 'at-will' spell is terrible and also boring because I have to watch the DM roll a save. Yeah, I am not at all impressed.)


I meant AFTER that...:smallwink: I know they've ben pushing that Next Gen stuff and playtesting. You think they'll roll it out at GenCon?

They will not. There's a preview adventure thing available at Gen Con you can buy, but it's playtest rules. There's no indication at all as to when the release is, which is both idiotic(A year and a half since announcement and they still haven't even hammered down the freaking core of the game?) and a relief(As bad as it is currently, it needs a LOT more work).

Look what you've done, Jon, I'm starting edition wars in the OOC thread out of boredom GET TO WORK.

[Hzurr]

Look what you've done, Jon, I'm starting edition wars in the OOC thread out of boredom GET TO WORK.

Sorry, my weekend internet access here is severely limited, and all of my spare time is going into trying to find a flat (which is apparently not the same thing as an apartment, but I haven't quite nailed down the difference yet).

But now, I'm back at work, and will be posting soon.

---

As for 5th edition (or Next or whatever they're calling it), it's definitely an odd mix. Some of the stuff they're doing is pretty cool, and my current estimate of the release date will be GenCon 2014 (which works, as that year is the 40th anniversary of d&d I believe).

I still need to wait and see how they handle the add-ons, but the base game is getting pretty solid. I like how they're handling most of the base classes (my biggest problem is still vancian casting, so I'm curious to see the other options they present). I'm not crazy about how magic-focused they're making the ranger, but I do really like how much clerics are influenced by their domains (*cue Nai complaining because they don't include Corellon*). I really like how they split the paladin into 3 subclasses (mainly because I want to play a warden who rides a giant elk into battle).

My biggest holdoff on dndnext is that I want to see the final set of DM tools / guidelines. The biggest hook for me into 4e over 3.5/PF was the amount of prep I had to do as a DM. If they can continue that type of trend, then I'll be satisfied with it.

Stepping away to a work meeting now, will update the IC thread once I get back.

[DSCrankshaw]

That's one of the things I like about 13th Age: since the designers worked on 4E, they kept a lot of the really good ideas that came out of it. I'll have to see where D&D Next is now. One thing that bothered me the last time I looked at the playtest rules was that character advancement was really slow. Gaining even a point to attack bonus or a higher bonus to your skills was rare for a level gain. When they were showing just the first three levels, I was worried that there wouldn't be any advancement at all. But as I said, I haven't looked at the playtest rules for a while, so I don't know the current state of things.

Oh, and maybe we should do something to stop Thrumbolg.

[Nai_Calus]

No kidding we should. Anyone has ideas, I'd love to hear them. Most of us can't get there this round unless we double move and in at least one case double run, which makes most of us unable to do anything until next round at least.

- Killing her is almost certain to be a bad idea.
- Forced movement on her is a bad idea because she probably doesn't have the HP to withstand it.
- Forced movement on him might be useful, but he's huge and probably has reach, so sliding him one square isn't going to cut it.
- He teleports 15 at will going off where he is now compared to where he was. (And that's how much he moved this round, he might have more distance he just didn't use.) We literally cannot keep up with him when he moves. No, not even Eltain, who's built for insane mobility.
-Apparently he also dominates at-will and we haven't seen him use an AP yet that I recall so even if we get to him it's probably going to be useless and he'll just dominate us.
- We cannot possibly kill him fast enough. He isn't even bloodied, there's no way we can nova him down in time.
On the bright side, he might actually stay put for a bit now and he's hopefully limited by the same can't-teleport-with-others thing that's the bane of Eltain's existence?

Otherwise... Uh, yeah, anyone with ideas, now's a great time. I've got nothing. I really don't see how we're supposed to stop a guy we can't keep up with who can dominate us at-will from doing anything. :smallconfused: He can just avoid us and dominate us until we run out of time. :smallfrown:

-

As for Next... Honestly at this point I don't care what the DM tools are like. I don't feel it in any way provides an enjoyable player experience for me. I've played several classes in several iterations and at best it was passable with an old version of the Rogue.

Actually, my objection to the domain thing, which mechanically is one of the few decent things with Clerics, isn't that they don't give Corellon an example in them, since a good five+ could apply. It's how disgustingly sexist the domain descriptions are. It's 2013, we can't do better than this?

[DSCrankshaw]

Does Pavick still have his banish spell, or has he used it?

[Hzurr]

Oh, quick point: I've done a bad job at specifying durations on these effects. They're all "til the end of Thrumbolg's next turn" unless otherwise specified.

It's going to be awkward once he realizes that Ash is standing right there and isn't dominated anymore.

[Orsik Vondal]

Is the drow priestess on the ground or in Thrum's hand?

If she is on the ground, is he holding the Khopesh in one or two hands?

If both hands are occupied, Ash could stab him really hard.

If only one hand is occupied, then Ash could still stab him hard.

If she is on the ground, Ash could steal her away or try to knock the Khopesh away.

Any ideas for Ash?

[DSCrankshaw]

I'm thinking Pavick's Sequester is the best strategy. That will give everyone a chance to get in position, and get the priestess out of his range.

[Hzurr]

Is the drow priestess on the ground or in Thrum's hand?

If she is on the ground, is he holding the Khopesh in one or two hands?


Priestess in one hand, Khopesh in the other.

[DSCrankshaw]

Would he take the priestess with him if Pavick sequestered him? Technically the priestess would be the only drow in that plane.

[Orsik Vondal]

Would he take the priestess with him if Pavick sequestered him? Technically the priestess would be the only drow in that plane.

Pav should wait to Sequester Thrum when there is just one turn left, so that even if the priestess goes or stays, the whole point of Thrum's action is kind of screwed up. Ash is going to try and tie him up for a turn.

[DSCrankshaw]

That's the reason I'm asking. If the priestess goes with Thrumbolg, then we should wait. If not, and we need to do something to the priestess in order to stop this, then the sooner we send him away and grab the priestess the better.

This sounds like it'll need an arcana check to figure out what will happen. Does it matter whether the priestess is on this plane when she dies? Does it matter whether the khopesh or Thrumbolg are in this plane when she dies?

[dariathalon]

Those are all good questions DS posed.

Also, a couple of things regarding the Skull of Baftis. Here are two of it's powers that I could use.


1. Power (Daily): Standard Action. Choose one creature you can see maintaining a zone or an effect. Spend a healing surge (you do not regain hitpoints), and make an opposed arcana check against the creature. If you succeed, you gain control over the zone or effect as if you had cast it. Sustain (minor action) Spend a healing surge (you do not regain hitpoints) and make an opposed arcana check to maintain control over the zone or effect.

2. Power (Action Point * Necrotic, Psychic): Minor Action. You and one living creature you can see die (save ends). The first creature to make its saving throw deals necrotic and psychic damage to the other equal to twice the your level.


Does this multi-turn use of the khopesh count as maintaining an effect? If so, Pavick might be able to use #1 to just shut him down.

What would happen if the khopesh is not the thing to kill the priestess? If something else killing her would be a good thing, #2 might be useful.

Also, how would forced movement alter the situation. Pavick has a couple of uses of mass charm that could be used to pull the two apart.

There's a lot of arcana questions going on here. I suppose if you want rolls for them I'll put them in a spoiler. You can decide how many you need.


[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]
[roll4]
[roll5]
[roll6]
[roll7]
[roll8]
[roll9]

[Orsik Vondal]

But he automatically will take the Khopesh, I'm guessing, since he's wielding it. So we won't need to move the priestess, though we should. Removing the blade at the last moment should end the ritual prematurely, or at least make him start over and waste more time/Khopesh power.

[DSCrankshaw]

That depends on how the ritual works. Sure, it may be that the khopesh is the source of the magic, and is fed by the life of the priestess, and it's waiting for its magic to activate. Or it could be that once the khopesh has been used to wound the priestess, its role is done, and it doesn't matter where it is. Its magic has been transferred into her body, and once she dies, the magic is released to the rest of the drow.

Hence the need for arcana checks.

[Hzurr]

Some good questions.

1) The ritual has started, and will take 3 rounds to complete. You suspect that if you can interrupt it, it will fail.

2) Since the priestess is unconscious, she's effectively being "wielded" by Thrumbolg, so she (and the Khopesh) will travel with him if he's moved via forced movement & teleportation. However, if y'all come up with a clever idea, I'll totally run with it.

3) As for the Skull of Baftis, yes - Pavick could use that to try and take control of the effect. As for killing the priestess, you honestly don't know enough about how the khopesh works to make a solid guess. It could go either way.

[Orsik Vondal]

I will post for Ash tomorrow evening at the latest. I'll be driving back from Nebraska. Do what you guys need to do. I'll be summoning Keezul, my warlock's ally, to help harass Thrum.

[Nai_Calus]

Eltain will do absolutely nothing since we can't get the priestess away from him or him away from the priestess, so that eliminates the one thing he could have tried to do, and I'd just miss anyway so there's less than no point to acting.

[Mando Knight]

2) Since the priestess is unconscious, she's effectively being "wielded" by Thrumbolg, so she (and the Khopesh) will travel with him if he's moved via forced movement & teleportation. However, if y'all come up with a clever idea, I'll totally run with it.

1.) [roll0]: What would most likely happen if the priestess was seriously wounded (possibly killed) by another source before the Khopesh did its work?

2.) What's the AC of a wielded drow priestess?

[dariathalon]

Another question worth considering, why is the priestess unconscious? Could granting her a healing surge wake her up and therefore allow her to be force moved out of a grab?

[DSCrankshaw]

Now that I've spent some time reading the rules, I thought I'd share my thoughts on The 13th Age RPG. This is spoilered as it's pretty long, and this is significantly off-topic.


In the same way that Pathfinder is D&D 3.75, you could say that 13th Age is D&D 4.75. It builds on many of the ideas of 4E, and tries to improve them. At the same time, it simplifies a lot of the mechanics, moving the complexity from the optimal choice of feat and items to the storytelling. This could be either fun or frustrating, depending on the GM and players.

Roleplaying
A lot of the storytelling is built right into the character mechanics. For example, each player receives three or more relationship dice. These are assigned to positive, negative, or conflicted relationships with the thirteen icons. The icons represent the most powerful NPCs in the game world, and can be heroic, ambiguous, or villainous. The relationship dice can be used a number of ways. They're rolled at the beginning of a session to determine which icons (or more often, which icon's organization) will be influencing the session, or they may be rolled as a result of an encounter with an icon's organization.

In addition to icon relationships, storytelling may have mechanical effects. Some class abilities depend on the player telling a good story, and leaves it to the GM to judge whether they get a bonus. It's also up to the player to convince the GM that his background applies when the situation calls for it.

Characters
Anyone who's played 4E will notice similarities, and some differences. Each player gets a certain number of recoveries (healing surges, though you're supposed to roll for the amount of healing), an AC, physical and mental defenses, HP equal to three times a base plus their con modifier, and a feat. There are bonuses to stats based on both race and class (each of which can apply to one of two stats).

Instead of skills characters get backgrounds. A background is more a description of a profession than a skill: something like court jester, temple initiate, or cat burglar. Each character starts with 8 points to spend on backgrounds, with a maximum of 5 in any one background. You add those points to any skill checks which are relevant to a background. The DM usually picks the attribute to use (for instance, is it a dexterity or intelligence check?), and the player makes the case for which background is relevant.

Each of the classes also gets 3 talents, and most of them get powers.
Talents generally customize your characters, by giving a permanent bonus or allowing you to do new things (substitute one Wis for Cha in all your class abilities, for instance). But they can also give you what are effectively powers.

Powers are a lot like 4E powers. They are usually at-will, recharge, or daily. Recharge powers are similar to encounter powers in 4E, but when you take a quick rest, you have to roll to see if you recover them or not. You are usually free to choose as many powers of each type as you want, up to your limit, so it's not like 4E where you have a certain number of at will, encounter, and daily powers at each level. The classes are different in the type of powers they receive. All fighter powers (maneuvers) are at will, and they take the form of flexible attacks, where you roll your die first, and then decide which maneuver to use based on what conditions the natural roll gives (some maneuvers trigger on odd rolls, some on even, some on hits, some on misses, some at 11+ or 16+). Rogue powers are all at-will, but sometimes require momentum (that you've hit an enemy and haven't been hit by one since).

Barbarians, rangers, and paladins are considered simpler classes to play, since they don't have any powers, just talents (though the number of talents they get increase by level, unlike other classes). While clerics, sorcerers, bards, and wizards are more complex to play, since their powers are spells, and are often recharge or dailies (bards also get songs, which are sustainable spells with finishing effects, and battle cries, which are flexible attacks).

Feats are usually tied to talents or powers, increasing their effects. This can be challenging when spells, which can be changed each day, have associated feats. The rules encourage the GM to be flexible in letting players reassign feats, but leave it up to him to decide. All spells can be increased in level, filling a higher spell slot for more powerful effect. Generally, you only get spell slots at two or three levels, losing lower level spell slots, so you need to trade for the higher level versions of spells if you want to keep them.

There are only ten levels, but there's a significant advance with each one, each level giving you a feat, +1 to defenses, attack, and ability/background rolls, and a another weapon die (so your basic attack does level x d6-d10). Levels are divided into tiers, with adventurer (1-4), champion (5-7), and epic (8-10).

In addition, after each session you get an incremental advancement, receiving part of your gains for the next level now.

Combat
Combat in 13th Age is considerably more abstract than in 4E. Enemies are either nearby (in which case you can reach them in a move action) or far away (you have to move to become nearby first). However, it is possible for some creatures to be behind others, in which case, the ones in front, as long as they aren't already engaged in melee, can intercept you if you try to attack the ones behind. The biggest constraint on movement is that you need to engage someone in order to hit them with a melee attack. You can't move after that without first disengaging (which requires a roll) or taking an opportunity attack. Since you have to move in order to engage, you can't attack someone else without disengaging. Of course, more than one enemy can engage you, so you can still be engaged with multiple foes at a time. Some classes have ways to disengage. For example, the fighter can intercept even when he's engaged, disengaging from his current enemies, and the rogue has numerous abilities that let him disengage.

But probably the most significant addition to combat is the escalation die. Every round after the first, the DM increments the escalation die, starting at 1 and increasing each round until it reaches the maximum of 6. Certain powers key off the escalation die (wizards' cyclic spells aren't expended when the die's even, for example). But the main effect is that the PCs add the escalation die to their attack rolls. Only the most dangerous monsters do the same. This gives the PCs a significant advantage as the fight wears on, but they have to earn it. The DM is cautioned not to advance the die if the PCs are hanging back rather than engaging the enemy.

Conclusion
I haven't had a chance to play the game yet, just to read through the rules. It looks like there are a lot of interesting ideas here, some of which sound really fun, and some of which I have my doubts about. But at this point, I'm eager to try playing it, and that's as high a praise as I can give so far.

[Hzurr]

Eltain will do absolutely nothing since we can't get the priestess away from him or him away from the priestess, so that eliminates the one thing he could have tried to do, and I'd just miss anyway so there's less than no point to acting.

DOOMED!!!! IT'S ALL HOPELESS!!! AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

:smalltongue:

Eltain's a godsdamn paladin. When has hopeless ever stopped one of them? Get over there and smite the genocidal maniac! You're on a flying horse with a speed of 10. This guy can't get away from you.


1.) [roll0]: What would most likely happen if the priestess was seriously wounded (possibly killed) by another source before the Khopesh did its work?

It depends on how much of the Khopesh's energy she's absorbed. The longer you wait, the more deadly it could be. Given that you still haven't had time to really study it, you don't know how extensive it is/will be at the moment, but you assume that it probably would not be massively fatal yet (except maybe to Zyrr and some of the soldiers below. The further away drow are, the less effective it will be)


2.) What's the AC of a wielded drow priestess?

Hmm...by a creature that much larger than her, but she is unconscious...we'll say AC 36. Not difficult for most of y'all to hit, but not guaranteed.


Another question worth considering, why is the priestess unconscious? Could granting her a healing surge wake her up and therefore allow her to be force moved out of a grab?
That's a great question. One that an adjacent creature who made a heal check as a minor action might know.

[Nai_Calus]

DOOMED!!!! IT'S ALL HOPELESS!!! AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!


Pretty much, actually, at least as far as Eltain doing anything is concerned. :smalltongue:



Eltain's a godsdamn paladin. When has hopeless ever stopped one of them? Get over there and smite the genocidal maniac! You're on a flying horse with a speed of 10. This guy can't get away from you.


Eltain is Eltain. He's also only half-Paladin. And weakened. And also incapable of doing a damned thing, just look at those rolls. And Frank is badly bloodied and will go down pretty much the next time he takes damage. If I'm lucky and actually hit I can do a maximum of 35 damage here, and that's assuming I crit, which Eltain has never yet done in this game.

Also, this guy has an at-will teleport of at least 15. I cannot, in fact, keep up with that. The only thing I can do is useless charge attacks while weakened on a guy who isn't even bloodied and whom killing really isn't even our top priority because there's no way we'll be able to take him down in time.

Indeed, once Frank dies, while Eltain technically has the highest speed, his distance he can get is teleporting seven and then moving six to charge, which is 13. Technically I can run-charge, except running in 4E is so massively punitive that nobody does it because it's stupid. Nobody in the party *except* Frank can keep up with this guy in melee, who also cannot be locked down as he's a teleporter. Hell, that much teleport speed is enough to keep him out of range of even the ranged characters pretty easily.

I'm still utterly baffled as to why you think there's anything at all useful Eltain can contribute here.

[Hzurr]

smite Him!

[Orsik Vondal]

If we are unable to separate the drow from Thrum in time, we can send her (if she is conscious) or both of them (if she is unconscious) to a demiplane for a turn if Pav uses Sequester. Otherwise Ash is going to be hacking away at Thrum, so that when he is unoccupied by the ritual, he will have very few hit points left.

I wonder: if we are able to subdue Thrum, but not kill him outright, might we be able to charge up the blade with Tiandra's blood (with her permission, of course) and perform the ritual again on a helpless Thrum? If he kills most of the drow, and we then kill most of the fomorians, there might be a shot at rescuing the drow that are left and converting them...

Also, Hzurr, if Thrum decides to attack Ash, Ash will deal 41 fire and radiant damage to him and push him five squares to the south with Reflexive Judgment.

[Orsik Vondal]

Now that I've spent some time reading the rules, I thought I'd share my thoughts on The 13th Age RPG. This is spoilered as it's pretty long, and this is significantly off-topic.


In the same way that Pathfinder is D&D 3.75, you could say that 13th Age is D&D 4.75. It builds on many of the ideas of 4E, and tries to improve them. At the same time, it simplifies a lot of the mechanics, moving the complexity from the optimal choice of feat and items to the storytelling. This could be either fun or frustrating, depending on the GM and players.

Roleplaying
A lot of the storytelling is built right into the character mechanics. For example, each player receives three or more relationship dice. These are assigned to positive, negative, or conflicted relationships with the thirteen icons. The icons represent the most powerful NPCs in the game world, and can be heroic, ambiguous, or villainous. The relationship dice can be used a number of ways. They're rolled at the beginning of a session to determine which icons (or more often, which icon's organization) will be influencing the session, or they may be rolled as a result of an encounter with an icon's organization.

In addition to icon relationships, storytelling may have mechanical effects. Some class abilities depend on the player telling a good story, and leaves it to the GM to judge whether they get a bonus. It's also up to the player to convince the GM that his background applies when the situation calls for it.

Characters
Anyone who's played 4E will notice similarities, and some differences. Each player gets a certain number of recoveries (healing surges, though you're supposed to roll for the amount of healing), an AC, physical and mental defenses, HP equal to three times a base plus their con modifier, and a feat. There are bonuses to stats based on both race and class (each of which can apply to one of two stats).

Instead of skills characters get backgrounds. A background is more a description of a profession than a skill: something like court jester, temple initiate, or cat burglar. Each character starts with 8 points to spend on backgrounds, with a maximum of 5 in any one background. You add those points to any skill checks which are relevant to a background. The DM usually picks the attribute to use (for instance, is it a dexterity or intelligence check?), and the player makes the case for which background is relevant.

Each of the classes also gets 3 talents, and most of them get powers.
Talents generally customize your characters, by giving a permanent bonus or allowing you to do new things (substitute one Wis for Cha in all your class abilities, for instance). But they can also give you what are effectively powers.

Powers are a lot like 4E powers. They are usually at-will, recharge, or daily. Recharge powers are similar to encounter powers in 4E, but when you take a quick rest, you have to roll to see if you recover them or not. You are usually free to choose as many powers of each type as you want, up to your limit, so it's not like 4E where you have a certain number of at will, encounter, and daily powers at each level. The classes are different in the type of powers they receive. All fighter powers (maneuvers) are at will, and they take the form of flexible attacks, where you roll your die first, and then decide which maneuver to use based on what conditions the natural roll gives (some maneuvers trigger on odd rolls, some on even, some on hits, some on misses, some at 11+ or 16+). Rogue powers are all at-will, but sometimes require momentum (that you've hit an enemy and haven't been hit by one since).

Barbarians, rangers, and paladins are considered simpler classes to play, since they don't have any powers, just talents (though the number of talents they get increase by level, unlike other classes). While clerics, sorcerers, bards, and wizards are more complex to play, since their powers are spells, and are often recharge or dailies (bards also get songs, which are sustainable spells with finishing effects, and battle cries, which are flexible attacks).

Feats are usually tied to talents or powers, increasing their effects. This can be challenging when spells, which can be changed each day, have associated feats. The rules encourage the GM to be flexible in letting players reassign feats, but leave it up to him to decide. All spells can be increased in level, filling a higher spell slot for more powerful effect. Generally, you only get spell slots at two or three levels, losing lower level spell slots, so you need to trade for the higher level versions of spells if you want to keep them.

There are only ten levels, but there's a significant advance with each one, each level giving you a feat, +1 to defenses, attack, and ability/background rolls, and a another weapon die (so your basic attack does level x d6-d10). Levels are divided into tiers, with adventurer (1-4), champion (5-7), and epic (8-10).

In addition, after each session you get an incremental advancement, receiving part of your gains for the next level now.

Combat
Combat in 13th Age is considerably more abstract than in 4E. Enemies are either nearby (in which case you can reach them in a move action) or far away (you have to move to become nearby first). However, it is possible for some creatures to be behind others, in which case, the ones in front, as long as they aren't already engaged in melee, can intercept you if you try to attack the ones behind. The biggest constraint on movement is that you need to engage someone in order to hit them with a melee attack. You can't move after that without first disengaging (which requires a roll) or taking an opportunity attack. Since you have to move in order to engage, you can't attack someone else without disengaging. Of course, more than one enemy can engage you, so you can still be engaged with multiple foes at a time. Some classes have ways to disengage. For example, the fighter can intercept even when he's engaged, disengaging from his current enemies, and the rogue has numerous abilities that let him disengage.

But probably the most significant addition to combat is the escalation die. Every round after the first, the DM increments the escalation die, starting at 1 and increasing each round until it reaches the maximum of 6. Certain powers key off the escalation die (wizards' cyclic spells aren't expended when the die's even, for example). But the main effect is that the PCs add the escalation die to their attack rolls. Only the most dangerous monsters do the same. This gives the PCs a significant advantage as the fight wears on, but they have to earn it. The DM is cautioned not to advance the die if the PCs are hanging back rather than engaging the enemy.

Conclusion
I haven't had a chance to play the game yet, just to read through the rules. It looks like there are a lot of interesting ideas here, some of which sound really fun, and some of which I have my doubts about. But at this point, I'm eager to try playing it, and that's as high a praise as I can give so far.


I am reading through the rules now too and pretty much agree with your assessment. I enjoy the fact that any race can be just about any class. Hzurr, you should remember being a cleric of Olidamarrah. Well, there is the option for a character like that.

[Nai_Calus]

smite Him!

You smite him. :smallyuk: You're the DM, you can smite anything.


I wonder: if we are able to subdue Thrum, but not kill him outright, might we be able to charge up the blade with Tiandra's blood (with her permission, of course) and perform the ritual again on a helpless Thrum? If he kills most of the drow, and we then kill most of the fomorians, there might be a shot at rescuing the drow that are left and converting them...

...Yes because the proper response to failing miserably yet again is to cross several moral event horizons ourselves. *facepalm* No. :smallyuk: ...Also how do you plan to get Tiandra's permission for anything, she's frozen solid and we can't get her out.

[Orsik Vondal]

Are we going to redeem the fomorians now too? I thought they, at least, were all evil, and we were of the mind that if we got Thrum to use the blade on himself and they all died, it wouldn't be a bad thing?

I was thinking we would haul both Thrum and Tiandra back to Arvandor, unfreeze her, get her permission to use her blood, then kill Thrum with the khopesh. :smallbiggrin:

[dariathalon]

Wow, we've got some of the most optimistic (Orsik) and pessimisitic (Nai) thinking I've seen in quite a while going on here.

Orsik, I don't think that we'll be able to do that. Pavick would certainly agree to killing the fomorians. He's had it out for them for several levels now. Heck, there's only about three things that is making him want to stop Thrumbolg from killing the drow (he doesn't want Zyrr to die, he knows how much it means to Eltain to stop him, and he doesn't want whatever Thrumbolg has in mind to work).

Nai, there's plenty of things Eltain can do. I think part of the point of Hzurr throwing this fight at us is to force us to think outside the box. Don't just rely on what your powers tell you that you can do (though I believe you do have a few ranged powers you can use if you want). I can think of a couple of great uses for your trained skills right now. Make an intimidate check to try to get him to stop the ritual. Make an insight check to see if there's anything he appears especially worried about right now (maybe he's glancing nervously at the party's healers or something). Make an arcana check to pull down that last ward (even if you can only do a minor to get the process started it is better than nothing; if we can get that down it amounts to effectively 50 ongoing damage). Or make an arcana check to aid Pavick, I'm betting this guy has some arcana skill so I don't know how successful I will be at what I'm about to do.

[Orsik Vondal]

Wow, we've got some of the most optimistic (Orsik) and pessimisitic (Nai) thinking I've seen in quite a while going on here.

Yeah. I am sort of an eternal optimist most days. I'm just thinking of opportunities beyond this current box.:smallbiggrin:

[DSCrankshaw]

I see two main options, assuming Pavick's takeover of the spell fails and just hitting Thrumbolg hard and often doesn't do the trick.

1) Option 1: We kill the priestess -- This has the advantage of getting rid of a bunch of drow, maybe as many as half the army here, without killing all of them in the Feywild. It has the disadvantage of killing Zyrr as well. However, we could send Zyrr to a demi-plane, via Pavick's sequester spell, which will prevent him from being killed.

2) Option 2: We banish Thrumbolg, khopesh, priestess, and all, to a demi-plane, so they are there rather than here when the ritual completes. This should wait until right before the ritual completes, so even on a miss or Thrumbolg making his saves, they're gone when it matters.

Option 1 has the advantage of decimating the drow army, but it's riskier. Option 2 annoys Thrumbolg and not much more, but as long as Pavick's still standing in two rounds, I'm pretty sure it will work.

[DSCrankshaw]

I am reading through the rules now too and pretty much agree with your assessment. I enjoy the fact that any race can be just about any class. Hzurr, you should remember being a cleric of Olidamarrah. Well, there is the option for a character like that.

I posted a 13th Age interest thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15592958#post15592958) in the recruitment forum.

[Hzurr]

Also, quick reminder that if you're waiting for a midround post, that ability has been deactivated.

[Orsik Vondal]

I like option 1.

Another possible way to circumvent Zyrr's possible extinction: What if Pav "kills" Zyrr with Baftis? (By the way, that scene with Pav and the skull was cool/creepy/funny/sexy?) I know Pav never wants to use the kill power, but it might work. It has about the same chance as Sequestering, as you cannot willingly fail or skip saving throws.

The downside may be that the magic of the Khopesh goes beyond killing only the living, but the dead as well. That conjecture is pretty far out, but might as well consider it anyway.

If Pav misses with Sequester, then Zyrr reappears on his turn, and dies anyway.

Pav can't miss with his kill power. Meaning Zyrr would most likely be dead for the Khopesh's magic (granted he dies the turn the ritual goes off right before the ritual goes off).

And I know there will be disagreement categorically with option 1. Again I say: it will help stop the drow invasion--our other objective given to us by three gods.

[DSCrankshaw]

Hmmm, I was thinking Sequester was a daily that banished on a miss. My mistake, then. I can probably all but guarantee it hits with Warp Karma, though (a daily utility that grants two re-rolls).

I suppose Pavick could try to kill himself and the priestess, and see if that works. But that could put him out of commission when we really need him to use Sequester, if it doesn't succeed in killing the priestess.

[Mando Knight]

What's the AC for the Khopesh?

[dariathalon]

No, sequester is an encounter power. It normally does nothing on a miss. However, on of the Skull's other powers (which is a slight variation on what Pavick's old orb did) is...

Power Daily (Free Action): Use this power when an attack with this orb misses its target. The target is affected by any conditions or effects of the attack as if the attack had hit, but gains a +4 bonus to saving throws to end any of these conditions or effects.

Pavick often used this power and sequester together with his old orb (which is why you were probably thinking it banished on a miss). Unless anyone comes up with something better soon, Pavick will probably sequester him next round (using the orb if necessary to make sure he goes).

This assumes Pavick's attempt to take control won't work, which I really doubt it will with that roll. The forum roller is a fickle mistress, and right now she's taking a crap on me.

[DSCrankshaw]

Actually, we may need DM guidance on when the ritual completes. We don't want to banish him too soon and have him return.

So, DM, will the ritual complete on Thrumbolg's turn? And if so, which one? The one after next (next round), or the one after that? Or, to spell it out:

Now (PCs acting)
Thrumbolg acts
PCs act
Thrumbolg acts <-- This turn?
PCs act
Thrumbolg acts <-- Or this one?

Let us know if you need another arcana roll.

[Hzurr]

What's the AC for the Khopesh?

AC: 43

-edit- Just realized that you attacked the Khopesh in the IC post (I didn't see that until after I provided the number above). If knowing the actual target would have changed Aramil's action, you're free to re-take your turn.



So, DM, will the ritual complete on Thrumbolg's turn? And if so, which one? The one after next (next round), or the one after that? Or, to spell it out:

Now (PCs acting)
Thrumbolg acts
PCs act
Thrumbolg acts <-- This turn?
PCs act
Thrumbolg acts <-- Or this one?


Highlighted.

[DSCrankshaw]

Thanks, Hzurr. I say we try to kill the priestess, and if that fails, Pavick sends them all to another dimension at the end of the next round.

[Orsik Vondal]

Alright. There's Plan A and Plan B.

Just a reminder: if Thrum decides to attack Ash, Ash is going to use Reflexive Judgment to deal 41 fire and radiant damage and push him 5 squares south.

Plan C: So possibly if the priestess was conscious, and Thrum gets pushed, he should drop her. Just a possibility that we could also set up, in case our other plans fall through. Can anybody heal her? If she wakes up, she might struggle free.

[Nai_Calus]

Wait, back the heck up for a moment. Why in all nine hells are we killing the priestess.
That would be giving this guy what he wants, and we do *not* want what he wants. Also, morally reprehensible. Resorting to aiding evil beings in using an evil artifact? Seriously? This is a good or non-evil idea why?

Didn't anyone listen to Eltain when he was telling Zyrr why this is awful? Plus, wiping out the drow, yes even some of them, in this sort of manner completely screws up where he's going with his goals. Genocide is not. morally. justifiable. ever.

So I'm going to ask politely that we *not* do this or even consider this because the thought is sickening to me. It is not a good idea, or a plan everyone can agree on. It's disgusting. For the love of Corellon, no.

Speaking of which, it's also been established that Corellon doesn't want the drow wiped out any more than Eltain does.

And no, Eltain doesn't want the fomorians wiped out either and thinks that's every bit as horrific an idea as the drow.

[DSCrankshaw]

Except that the DM has stated that killing the priestess will interrupt the ceremony and not kill all the drow in the plane, only the ones nearby, aka the invading army. I am not opposed to that. Nor do I consider killing the genocidal priestess who brought the khopesh here with the purpose of killing a much greater portion of the eladrin or Archfey than killing all the drow in the Feywild would do to be an evil act.

[Nai_Calus]

Eltain has no objection to killing her. It's the other people who'll die he objects to. You really think every miserable oppressed male down there actually truly wants to be here? That they deserve to die because some priestess whipped him into doing it because it was show up and maybe live through the battle, or disobey which in drow society means 'get slapped on an altar to be sacrificed'?

Sure, some of them are here willingly. Probably even most of them. Doesn't mean they deserve to get tossed in a magical gas chamber because we don't like them. Face it, we failed this one already. Senaliesse is lost, what was left of the defenders already died while we were off in dreamland. Killing thousands more won't change that or bring anyone back. It just makes us dirty too.

[Orsik Vondal]

Except that the DM has stated that killing the priestess will interrupt the ceremony and not kill all the drow in the plane, only the ones nearby, aka the invading army. I am not opposed to that. Nor do I consider killing the genocidal priestess who brought the khopesh here with the purpose of killing a much greater portion of the eladrin or Archfey than killing all the drow in the Feywild would do to be an evil act.

Ditto, Brudda.

[DSCrankshaw]

They're an invading army, Nai. It's our job to stop them. The way you stop them is by killing as many of them as you have to. It's not a gas chamber. Those aren't civilians in the field, or unarmed prisoners. It doesn't matter if they were drafted or volunteered. They're an army and we need to stop them. So if the options are letting them overrun the city, or hitting them with the most powerful weapon we have, the equivalent of nuking them, then I say we nuke them.

And if you want to do something different, then have Eltain help Pavick try to take over the ritual magic, or make some arcana checks to try to figure out other ways to stop the ritual. Just don't absolutely refuse to do anything and then complain about what the rest of us are doing.

Heck, you could just kill the priestess now. From what Hzurr said, that would kill a lot less drow (maybe some on the ground) than if we wait a round.

[Orsik Vondal]

I agree with DS. We are going to have to kill them one way or another. Either right now with a half completed extinction ritual or face to face with our blades and magic later. If half the drow drop dead right now from an effect that the high level priestesses would most likely know was their own plan turned against them, I believe they would be more on board with packing up and going home. If we wait to confront them on the battlefield, they would most likely fight for much longer, more would die, and in the meantime they will keep fighting and dying anyway.

[Mando Knight]

Rolling extra damage...

[roll0]

[Hzurr]

Rolling opposed arcana check against Pavick, in case that changes what anyone would do: [roll0]