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ForzaFiori
2012-12-13, 03:54 AM
If there weren't proper documents detailing why the prisoners were in jail, that's hardly the fault of the liberators. It's the former guards problem for shoddy records keeping. :smalltongue:

Thelonius
2012-12-13, 04:33 AM
I'm actually checking the prison records at the moment. And edited my last post.

Ram employs criminals.
Wren has a Den of Thieves
Blackfists release criminals.
Gears are consorting with Elfbeens.

Edit: Sorry, bringing IC propaganda to OOC again. Just can't help myself sometimes.

And while the city is embroiled in some scuffles in Runner's city, on the stage of Opera the true history is being made with the great theater duel between BH and Heladuit Court. :smallsmile:

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-13, 08:23 AM
Yeah but anything said OOC like that is something everyone knows. So basically the entire city knows that the Blackfist are either lying or incompetent and gullible..

Edit: Also I don't really think you get to complain about the last owner's record keeping when you had to lay siege to the place to get them out. They obviously weren't intending to transfer their records so who knows what got lost and destroyed in the fighting.

I'm not saying anything was deliberately destroyed, but if it's anything like the filing systems and record archives I've seen, and it's probably a lot worse given the setting's time period, then it's going to be really hard to find anything even if you're trained and know how it works. If you just walk in after killing or driving away the last set of clerks it's going to be nearly impossible to go through it reliably. And given that all the prisoners were released the same turn I doubt there was a very comprehensive review of the archives, which would probably take months.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-13, 01:20 PM
So is the opera contest open to the public?

Also, when did the revolution employ criminals?

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-13, 01:33 PM
Ram employs criminals.
Wren has a Den of Thieves
Blackfists release criminals.
Gears are consorting with Elfbeens.


Ah, they're lovely thieves though! Steal from the rich, stab serial killers in the Eye, you know.

Eldan
2012-12-13, 01:38 PM
A MAN WHO MERELY TAKES WHAT HE DESERVES IS NOT A THIEF!

Oh, wait, this is the OOC.

Grimsage Matt
2012-12-13, 01:39 PM
Statment from the Technists; What Arms dealing?

Eldan
2012-12-13, 01:40 PM
Also, what's an Elfbean?

Copper8642
2012-12-13, 02:39 PM
So is the opera contest open to the public?

Not to participate, no, but the public is free to observe. The audience is the jury, after all.

Eldan
2012-12-13, 02:54 PM
Can we bring rotten fruit?

Zemalac
2012-12-13, 02:59 PM
Also, what's an Elfbean?

"Elfbeen" is a somewhat derogatory term for the Dreumont, making fun of their love of ice elf culture despite not, for the most part, being ice elves.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-13, 03:02 PM
Can we bring rotten fruit?

Don't be absurd, of course you can't!!

It's going to be a high-class gathering of very important rich people, and you are the crazy Anarchists.

I would be dissapointed if you showed up without at least one or two Molotov coctails to warm the evening.

PS: Waaaaait a sec.. I'm sure I've seen the term "Elfbean" IC. You mean to tell me that Doc Vassari is a racist?

This just blew my mind..

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-13, 03:50 PM
My impression was that the Elfbeens have been mucking something up over in that part of town. Which is what drew the attention of various factions not inherent racism.

Edit: I also thought it was a gang name.

Thelonius
2012-12-13, 04:47 PM
Is it racist to dislike people, who pretend to belong to another race?

And seriously, it's because Elfbeens (and I will continue to call the that, so sue me in the Halls of Justice) have been attacking honest merchants in the Little Zanchar.

Ram's been getting petty criminals to serve in their army, instead of serving their sentence. And Mr. Wren has been hiring assassins.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-13, 05:03 PM
Whoops, I misread.

I (Wrongly) understood that "Elfbean" was a racist term against Ice elves.

Now I see it's about peope "pretending" to be ice elves.


So nope. Not racist. Maybe a bit intolerant, but not racist.

So I apologize.

razovor
2012-12-13, 05:05 PM
Considering the Ice Elves are the guys I killed in Resseville and Broken Arch who were using civilians as human shields, I think it's safe to be intolerant towards them.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-13, 05:06 PM
Is it racist to dislike people, who pretend to belong to another race?

Ram's been getting petty criminals to serve in their army, instead of serving their sentence.

When you take the slur for black people, and change the starting letter to a W, so it refers to white people pretending to be black, it's still a slur, so while it's not racist, it is still bigoted.

As to the thieves in the army, it's not instead of serving their sentence, it's a different way of serving them - they're under armed guard at all times in the army, having discipline and respect drilled into them. Now they're prevented from harming society, and forced to help it, as well as given training in useful skills. Much better than having them rot in prison.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-13, 05:37 PM
When you take the slur for black people, and change the starting letter to a W, so it refers to white people pretending to be black, it's still a slur, so while it's not racist, it is still bigoted.

As to the thieves in the army, it's not instead of serving their sentence, it's a different way of serving them - they're under armed guard at all times in the army, having discipline and respect drilled into them. Now they're prevented from harming society, and forced to help it, as well as given training in useful skills. Much better than having them rot in prison.

You know; you are still training criminals in weapon use.

There is no way that this won't turn against you some time down the road.

(The fact that I actually had pretty much the same discussion in real life is impossibly amusing)


Considering the Ice Elves are the guys I killed in Resseville and Broken Arch who were using civilians as human shields, I think it's safe to be intolerant towards them.

Stop oppressing their culture, you ethnocentric King!!

PS: I'm sure that being a Human shield is a very honorable tradition in Ice Elven culture.
why not have elves do it? They are called "human shields" for a reason, you know!!!

razovor
2012-12-13, 05:39 PM
Stop oppressing their culture, you ethnocentric King!!

If their culture is about oppressing other cultures, then yes, I will oppress their culture. :smalltongue:

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-13, 05:42 PM
If their culture is about oppressing other cultures, then yes, I will oppress their culture. :smalltongue:

This is the kind of thing that makes the Blackfist hate you.

If a culture wants to be free and enslave others, you have no rights to stop them!

Why are you acting like you are superior to the rest? :smalltongue:

razovor
2012-12-13, 05:44 PM
I am superior. I'm nobility.

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-13, 05:46 PM
When you take the slur for black people, and change the starting letter to a W, so it refers to white people pretending to be black, it's still a slur, so while it's not racist, it is still bigoted.

As to the thieves in the army, it's not instead of serving their sentence, it's a different way of serving them - they're under armed guard at all times in the army, having discipline and respect drilled into them. Now they're prevented from harming society, and forced to help it, as well as given training in useful skills. Much better than having them rot in prison.

If you had a boot camp outside the city where they could be completely separated while they were trained then that would be plausible. As it is you are giving thieves access to weapons and training while being in a location where they are quite close to the civilian population which offers both escape and opportunity. Shoot they might be stealing on the side and then running back to the protection and anonymity of your army. We're talking about people whose specialty is avoiding armed guards after all.

Also I would not say that soldiers are automatically respectable hard working members of society. In many cases this is true yes. But in many cases they are just as bad as criminals. And I think that if you are infusing your army with criminals while being in close proximity to many other criminals then your army is more likely to lean towards influencing your good soldiers to be bad than the other way around. And whether you admit it or not Runner's City is a haven for criminals since the EBSA agents aren't allowed inside.

Grimsage Matt
2012-12-13, 05:46 PM
So is Matt Rosen. But you never hear him talking about it. Heck, he's a factory worker for crying out loud:smallbiggrin:

"Just becuse you were born into a 'special' family does not make you better then other people. That's only how you live and die."

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-13, 05:49 PM
I am superior. I'm nobility.

Actually technically you aren't nobility since you don't have any of the papers showing who you are descended from or an actual patent of nobility. You have a claim on the kingship which if you successfully assert will start a new line of nobility for you and your family, but currently you are not one.

Shoot for all we know you aren't even descended from the kings of this country.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-13, 05:52 PM
Bah. Runners City is a haven for criminals only because I can't spare the resources to get rid of them. For reasons that should be obvious.

razovor
2012-12-13, 05:56 PM
So is Matt Rosen. But you never hear him talking about it. Heck, he's a factory worker for crying out loud:smallbiggrin:

"Just because you were born into a 'special' family does not make you better then other people. That's only how you live and die."

That's a modern viewpoint. This is a fantasy setting. Most of the nobility would agree with James sentiment.

That said, there's an important distinction between James and nobles like Markus Heladuit. Markus thinks his superiority entitles him to a better lifestyle than commoners, James doesn't.

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-13, 06:02 PM
Bah. Runners City is a haven for criminals only because I can't spare the resources to get rid of them. For reasons that should be obvious.

Yes because instead of going for criminals you would rather attack honest merchants.

Thank you for explaining, it's all so obvious now.

razovor
2012-12-13, 06:07 PM
Yes because instead of going for criminals you would rather attack honest merchants.

Thank you for explaining, it's all so obvious now.

The argument they're presenting may not be their real motives, but it does make some sense. The people would be better off if the merchants invested all their resources into popular projects. Most of your resources go to increasing your own stats.

Only blood-haven has shown significant interest in helping the commoners.

Thelonius
2012-12-13, 06:09 PM
Regarding Ram's army & Criminals, I think you are missing my point. As far as IC goes, it looked like Ram's army tried to rob Mercantile Guild. So in my book they are a gang, that's forcing other crooks to join them.

I'd say James is nobility, but is he royalty? He made a claim, but he hasn't done anything to assert it. Now James can get the throne, since SGA doesn't want to rule and we now hate RSA, while Wardens with their crazy military back him. However that's more like the throne falling to him rather James claiming it.

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-13, 06:10 PM
The argument they're presenting may not be their real motives, but it does make some sense. The people would be better off if the merchants invested all their resources into popular projects. Most of your resources go to increasing your own stats.

Only blood-haven has shown significant interest in helping the commoners.

They'd be better off if criminals didn't keep stealing from them too.

And how exactly does attacking the merchants convince them to invest in popular projects.

Edit: Shoot its not like they ever even presented a popular project to us for backing. The SGA has set up several citywide improvements. The RSA has what the electrical grid, which has a good chance of sparking and burning down neighborhoods every turn. And that was mostly the Gear's project too not the RSA as a whole.

Edit2: I mean I was actually extending my metro into Runner's City. It would have provided the people of Runner's City ready access to jobs in other districts. I was doing it out of my own pocket, and had gotten as far as Fat Tippest when the RSA decided the SGA was public enemy number one.


Regarding Ram's army & Criminals, I think you are missing my point. As far as IC goes, it looked like Ram's army tried to rob Mercantile Guild. So in my book they are a gang, that's forcing other crooks to join them.

I'd say James is nobility, but is he royalty? He made a claim, but he hasn't done anything to assert it. Now James can get the throne, since SGA doesn't want to rule and we now hate RSA, while Wardens with their crazy military back him. However that's more like the throne falling to him rather James claiming it.

Like I said the good soldiers are being turned bad not the other way around.

razovor
2012-12-13, 06:35 PM
I'd say James is nobility, but is he royalty? He made a claim, but he hasn't done anything to assert it. Now James can get the throne, since SGA doesn't want to rule and we now hate RSA, while Wardens with their crazy military back him. However that's more like the throne falling to him rather James claiming it.

If it really comes down to it, then yeah, I'll fight you.

But if you're good men, of course I'll attempt diplomacy with you first. It seems like diplomacy worked. House of merchants was accepted by both of us. If there's anything else you want, I'll gladly discuss it.

Thelonius
2012-12-13, 06:38 PM
The argument they're presenting may not be their real motives, but it does make some sense. The people would be better off if the merchants invested all their resources into popular projects. Most of your resources go to increasing your own stats.

Only blood-haven has shown significant interest in helping the commoners.

Mercantile Guild gave BH 11 [WEL] to open new clinics and expand hospitaln. Greedy bastards. Then they built and defended forts and trade fleets in Shattered Lands that increased trade to the City. And sponsored reconstruction of the Gaspar Aeroyard – I don’t think anybody minds airships and Technists are affable enough to work with any faction in the city, if they want to take to the skies. And helped bring Merdallan Steel trade to the city? Which will come useful, if those major Warlords start acting up. I wouldn’t be surprised, if Wardens take advantage of some shiny armor, when their economic situation improves. And they were working on bringing more resources to the city – probably would have succeeded, if SGA were cooperating with Wardens & Champions, a cooperation offer W&S turned down. All of that while being constantly attacked, because they have lots of Wealth.

RSA may have improved lives of common people in the Runner’s City, but Mercantile Guild has done much to build a better future for the Sav Altulus, without causing any harm to anybody. This is why Bloodhaven stands by them.

And all this talk about commoners of the Runner's City. Sav Altulus has other Districts as well. Are they less important? Should we ignore people living there? If we need to shake down people of Stocks, Lomb Circle, Spicer's Circle and Gilded to make lives of people in the Runner's City better, is it really a good thing? Not mentioning what people in Heaven's Gate and Sky have to expect, if Blackfists come to power.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-13, 06:44 PM
Personally I don't believe in factions improving the infrastructure. I don't think it's a job that should be done by random factions just because they have the money for it. We'll fix the city when we have a proper centralised government to do it.

razovor
2012-12-13, 06:53 PM
The first one is good. Explains their 1 reputation.

The rest I do not accept as charitable. Taking profit from business reduces the overall benefit to society. That is even if we include the Mercantile Guild as part of the society.

Some very rough numbers;

Profits for Consumers and Suppliers

Consumers|Suppliers
5|5
7|4
9|3
11|2
13|1
15|0

oblivion6
2012-12-13, 07:00 PM
Most of my contributions to the city have been indirect, which does explain why REP is only 1.

Thelonius
2012-12-13, 07:09 PM
Personally I don't believe in factions improving the infrastructure. I don't think it's a job that should be done by random factions just because they have the money for it. We'll fix the city when we have a proper centralised government to do it.

Ah. Damn you ESGE for rebuilding Daimot University. Should have waited for centralized government to do it.

And what does RSA know about trade? Running Hospitals? Building City Walls? I'd venture a guess, that not that much. Maybe those who actually know how things are done should be doing them?


The rest I do not accept as charitable. Taking profit from business reduces the overall benefit to society. That is even if we include the Mercantile Guild as part of the society.

Very well. Will James announce publicly, that if he comes to power, anybody who engages in trade must put all profits from sale of goods into charitable works?

Also - all merchants aren't part of the society? I'm getting a feeling we are on the side of James, only because RSA is even worse.


If it really comes down to it, then yeah, I'll fight you.

But if you're good men, of course I'll attempt diplomacy with you first. It seems like diplomacy worked. House of merchants was accepted by both of us. If there's anything else you want, I'll gladly discuss it.

As far as I could tell the whole House of Merchants is moot point now. It's not like we are going to do House of Commoners after this civil war. If we win, I say we are bury Democracy in the Medicant Fields and never speak of it again.

The way you speak (and it sounds a bit of IC) it comes off as - surrender or die. The fact that SGA is looked upon as an enemy speaks volumes of why we might be reluctant about acknowledged James as our King. Just not feeling the love there.

oblivion6
2012-12-13, 07:14 PM
Also - all merchants aren't part of the society? I'm getting a feeling we are on the side of James, only because RSA is even worse.

Oh, I got that feeling a LONG time ago.

Murska
2012-12-13, 07:16 PM
Yeah, no democracy in our city. That'll just end up in chaos and death.

Wardens for rulership - we'll head out, protect everyone from external threats and let the economic and civil life of the city sort itself out without our guidance. Extreme libertarianism!

razovor
2012-12-13, 07:17 PM
Very well. Will James announce publicly, that if he comes to power, anybody who engages in trade must put all profits from sale of goods into charitable works?

No. Charitable work needs to be encouraged, not force.

Never-mind that James doesn't nearly do enough of it himself.



Also - all merchants aren't part of the society? I'm getting a feeling we are on the side of James, only because RSA is even worse.

I just meant it as an intensifier. I'm glad to have you in the city.



As far as I could tell the whole House of Merchants is moot point now. It's not like we are going to do House of Commoners after this civil war. If we win, I say we are bury Democracy in the Medicant Fields and never speak of it again.

Wallen still wants it. Will need to talk to him about that.


The way you speak (and it sounds a bit of IC) it comes off as - surrender or die. The fact that SGA is looked upon as an enemy speaks volumes of why we might be reluctant about acknowledged James as our King. Just not feeling the love there.

I think this is something of a circle. James only sees you as something of an enemy, because you're not quite willing to accept him as King. I'm just going to continue helping you when I'm able. Hopefully this will all sort itself out.

Also, you just said you thought he wasn't being assertive enough. I'm not sure what you want.

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-13, 07:24 PM
No. Charitable work needs to be encouraged, not force.

Never-mind that James doesn't nearly do enough of it himself.



I just meant it as an intensifier. I'm glad to have you in the city.



Wallen still wants it. Will need to talk to him about that.



I think this is something of a circle. James only sees you as something of an enemy, because you're not quite willing to accept him as King. I'm just going to continue helping you when I'm able. Hopefully this will all sort itself out.

Also, you just said you thought he wasn't being assertive enough. I'm not sure what you want.

The Sausage Guild directly recognized King James and his claim to the throne. We straight up said it. I am not sure what more you want. If you would man up and claim the throne instead of all this compromising we'd back you all the way.



To the Champion's of Sovereignty
We wish to inform King James that our tests have indeed proven his blood to be that of Kings. We will support his claim to the throne. And if he wishes provide our research for him to show publicly or not as he wishes.

Assuming of course that we come out of current exchange between the SGA and the Wardens intact.

razovor
2012-12-13, 07:28 PM
The Sausage Guild directly recognized King James and his claim to the throne. We straight up said it. I am not sure what more you want. If you would man up and claim the throne instead of all this compromising we'd back you all the way.

Hmmm. Thats not a bad idea.

I figured I'd do it after the RSA were dealt with, but their reputation is ruined now. Their objection is meaningless.

Thelonius, did you ever get around to checking the throne-room was clean of evil magic?

Thelonius
2012-12-13, 08:13 PM
Well, if it's about Desoui's state, no evil magic there. I'm pretty surprised, Champions didn't even try to claim Daisong Palace - the main seat of power of the City. They had supporters in the Council, which ESBA would have listened to - and it wouldn't have been that bad to make a deal with ESBA, rewarding them for helping reclaim the Daisong Palace.

Pretty much as the Sausage Guild said. Charity works are nice and all, but really BH needs just two things in the King - leadership and providing protection to his subjects. BH hasn't seen either in the RSA situation.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-13, 08:26 PM
And I think that if you are infusing your army with criminals while being in close proximity to many other criminals then your army is more likely to lean towards influencing your good soldiers to be bad than the other way around. And whether you admit it or not Runner's City is a haven for criminals since the EBSA agents aren't allowed inside.

1) very few criminals took me up on the offer, honestly. I didn't even get a stat point or losses compensated for or anything. I can't even catch many criminals, let alone get them to join up. So it's not like Richter has a gang of thieves working as an armed forces.

2) If the EBSA wouldn't pull people off the streets without discussion with the leaders of an area, they'd be free to work in Ram Territory. Heck, if they'd tell the Revolution who they want, they'd probably be given up.



Only blood-haven has shown significant interest in helping the commoners.

For like the 3rd time, I'll point out that the Revolution helped save the economy of the Smokeyards, defeat the librarian, clear the palace, build the road, and pretty much anything else it was asked to do by the council or any other government it wasn't in direct conflict with.



And all this talk about commoners of the Runner's City. Sav Altulus has other Districts as well. Are they less important? Should we ignore people living there? If we need to shake down people of Stocks, Lomb Circle, Spicer's Circle and Gilded to make lives of people in the Runner's City better, is it really a good thing? Not mentioning what people in Heaven's Gate and Sky have to expect, if Blackfists come to power.

Do you fix your paper cut before tending to a broken leg? The worst injury deserves first treatment. When the poor are helped rise up to the middle class, then the middle class (including those who were poor) can be helped as well.



But if you're good men, of course I'll attempt diplomacy with you first. It seems like diplomacy worked. House of merchants was accepted by both of us. If there's anything else you want, I'll gladly discuss it.

Don't believe him. "Diplomacy" to James means "do what I want, and here's a worthless bauble to play with so you feel like you got something worthwhile".

razovor
2012-12-13, 08:36 PM
Well, if it's about Desoui's state, no evil magic there. I'm pretty surprised, Champions didn't even try to claim Daisong Palace - the main seat of power of the City. They had supporters in the Council, which ESBA would have listened to - and it wouldn't have been that bad to make a deal with ESBA, rewarding them for helping reclaim the Daisong Palace.

I'd promised the EBSA everything they'd asked for previously. They knew how many supporters I had, and they still said they would oppose me militarily if I tried to take the palace.

I guess I'll try again.


For like the 3rd time, I'll point out that the Revolution helped save the economy of the Smokeyards, defeat the librarian, clear the palace, build the road, and pretty much anything else it was asked to do by the council or any other government it wasn't in direct conflict with.

I was just referring to charitable members of the SGA. Otherwise I would have included James, the Wren, and Militia of Order and Justice.

ragingrage
2012-12-13, 09:08 PM
That's a modern viewpoint. This is a fantasy setting. Most of the nobility would agree with James sentiment.

That said, there's an important distinction between James and nobles like Markus Heladuit. Markus thinks his superiority entitles him to a better lifestyle than commoners, James doesn't.

Y'know, this Markus person sounds like a really, really bad guy. Really bad. Huh. Wonder why the RSA haven't taken him out yet. :smalltongue:

Thelonius
2012-12-14, 05:41 AM
Do you fix your paper cut before tending to a broken leg? The worst injury deserves first treatment. When the poor are helped rise up to the middle class, then the middle class (including those who were poor) can be helped as well.

I haven't been really critical of the Ram in the IC - most of my clashes with you were about actions of your allies - Blackfists & Gears.

You need strong economy to bring the poor anywhere close to the middle class.
That's a deep pit and we don't have enough gold to fill it in. In improving the lives of the people, you'll eventually hit the ceiling in that people need well-paid jobs/opportunities to do business or they need government to give them free money (I'm getting a strong socialist vibe from both royals and democrats).


For like the 3rd time, I'll point out that the Revolution helped save the economy of the Smokeyards, defeat the librarian, clear the palace, build the road, and pretty much anything else it was asked to do by the council or any other government it wasn't in direct conflict with.

True. I honestly don't know the odds of success, but you could have tried to take power politically. As I've said Bloodhaven looks for leadership and providing protection for the people.

razovor
2012-12-14, 06:30 AM
True. I honestly don't know the odds of success, but you could have tried to take power politically. As I've said Bloodhaven looks for leadership and providing protection for the people.

I agree. The revolution would have stood a much better chance gaining power peacefully. Though in the end, all power in the democracy would be determined by how many stat points factions invest into convincing citizens to support them. Only obviously suicidal ideologies would lose factions votes.

We'll see how this military attempt to gain power goes.

EDIT: Need to edit that last post. Some OOC problems with it.

Copper8642
2012-12-14, 02:51 PM
Thel, I don't think we can do the Trial right yet, if only because I'm busy with a test an the Hobbit, and haven't written anything for our duel yet. I'm going to try this weekend.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-14, 05:35 PM
I haven't been really critical of the Ram in the IC - most of my clashes with you were about actions of your allies - Blackfists & Gears.

True. I honestly don't know the odds of success, but you could have tried to take power politically. As I've said Bloodhaven looks for leadership and providing protection for the people.

Most of the rebuttals I was offering was just for the sake of offering them. I'm a phil. minor, arguing about fake political systems is my bread and butter. :smalltongue:


I agree. The revolution would have stood a much better chance gaining power peacefully. Though in the end, all power in the democracy would be determined by how many stat points factions invest into convincing citizens to support them. Only obviously suicidal ideologies would lose factions votes.

We'll see how this military attempt to gain power goes.

EDIT: Need to edit that last post. Some OOC problems with it.

I tried getting power peacfully. I figured out who would go for it and who wouldn't. Now I just gotta get rid of those who wouldn't, then everyone that's left will help build the new Sav Altulas.

Eldan
2012-12-14, 05:37 PM
Most of the rebuttals I was offering was just for the sake of offering them. I'm a phil. minor, arguing about fake political systems is my bread and butter. :smalltongue:

I dont' think that's a phil minor thing. I'm an ecology major and I still do it:smalltongue:

Murska
2012-12-14, 05:45 PM
I dont' think that's a phil minor thing. I'm an ecology major and I still do it:smalltongue:

I'm a Physics major and do it.

razovor
2012-12-14, 05:57 PM
I'm a Physics major and do it.

Economics here.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-14, 06:16 PM
Almost a medic here :smalltongue:

And, to be honest; I think that the Ram made a mistake by creating the RSA. James allies would've began eating each other alive, had he played his hand differently.

oblivion6
2012-12-14, 06:38 PM
Almost a medic here :smalltongue:

And, to be honest; I think that the Ram made a mistake by creating the RSA. James allies would've began eating each other alive, had he played his hand differently.

I am glad the RSA was created. In an indirect sort of way, it saved me from being absolutely slaughtered by the Warden army.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-14, 06:48 PM
I tried getting power peacfully. I figured out who would go for it and who wouldn't. Now I just gotta get rid of those who wouldn't, then everyone that's left will help build the new Sav Altulas.

Maybe you judge things differently, but that sounds like you're planning on taking on half the city. That's...concerning.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-14, 07:00 PM
Maybe you judge things differently, but that sounds like you're planning on taking on half the city. That's...concerning.

Lets be honest here - isn't everyone planning on taking on half the city eventually?

Also, it's not really half the city. Most people are willing to meet and compromise. I'm just trying to get rid of the ones that wont. And of course, it's not like I'd try to take them all on at once. Or at least, I hadn't intended to. It may wind up like that though.

Thelonius
2012-12-14, 07:22 PM
Everybody who wants power in Sav Altulus have ''I stack enough dead bodies and I'll be in charge'' mentality. Well, that's Shattered Lands for you. If Blackfists weren't killing people and destroying stuff, I'd probably sympathize with their ideology.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-14, 07:39 PM
Hey, I resent that!

I've been working against civil war since we started!

Except for that brief operation in Dogma... And that brief operation in the Stacks

Murska
2012-12-14, 07:53 PM
Everybody who wants power in Sav Altulus have ''I stack enough dead bodies and I'll be in charge'' mentality. Well, that's Shattered Lands for you. If Blackfists weren't killing people and destroying stuff, I'd probably sympathize with their ideology.

Exactly! Choose the Wardens, they don't want power.

oblivion6
2012-12-14, 08:00 PM
Exactly! Choose the Wardens, they don't want power.

Honestly, if you had made an attempt like that before the whole Traitors Bridge issue, I might have sided with you there. I dont care who exactly takes control, as long as it doesnt really affect trade or commit attrocities on its own populace.

Eldan
2012-12-14, 08:47 PM
Everybody who wants power in Sav Altulus have ''I stack enough dead bodies and I'll be in charge'' mentality. Well, that's Shattered Lands for you. If Blackfists weren't killing people and destroying stuff, I'd probably sympathize with their ideology.

Hey, we didn't destroy anything. Or nothing important that I can remember.

Zemalac
2012-12-15, 02:54 AM
Sorry I've been too busy to reply to things in the thread for a few days. I'll get to that tomorrow morning--I don't think I'm awake enough right now. Also, I would like to remind everyone that EoTs are due.

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-15, 02:58 AM
Mine should be in.

oblivion6
2012-12-15, 02:59 AM
I think mine is also in.

Zemalac
2012-12-15, 02:16 PM
I am currently still needing EoTs from the Champions of Sovereignty, Executive Bureaucracy, Gear's Chosen, Heladuit Court, Orc Uprising, Ram Revolution, Silversmith's Guild and Technists Guild. Either you forgot to send one, I accidentally deleted it to make room in my PM box or the server ate it; but whatever the reason, I'd appreciate it if you all could get them in soon.

oblivion6
2012-12-15, 02:21 PM
I am currently still needing EoTs from the Champions of Sovereignty, Executive Bureaucracy, Gear's Chosen, Heladuit Court, Orc Uprising, Ram Revolution, Silversmith's Guild and Technists Guild. Either you forgot to send one, I accidentally deleted it to make room in my PM box or the server ate it; but whatever the reason, I'd appreciate it if you all could get them in soon.

I wouldnt expect one from the Orc Uprising. I am pretty sure Rafinius is MIA.

razovor
2012-12-15, 03:06 PM
I am currently still needing EoTs from the Champions of Sovereignty, Executive Bureaucracy, Gear's Chosen, Heladuit Court, Orc Uprising, Ram Revolution, Silversmith's Guild and Technists Guild. Either you forgot to send one, I accidentally deleted it to make room in my PM box or the server ate it; but whatever the reason, I'd appreciate it if you all could get them in soon.

Sorry, been driving home today. I'll give it in now.

EDIT: House Laurier haven't responded to mine and Vassari's replies to their response to Vassari's message.

EDIT: Ha! I gave it the wrong title, and forgot to include my VIP's. Sorry. I'll send a correction.

Thelonius
2012-12-15, 03:29 PM
Curses! Orks would have been a major ally.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-15, 04:38 PM
EoT is sent. Sorry about that, lost track of when they were due.

ragingrage
2012-12-15, 08:36 PM
My EoT will be in within the hour hopefully, I've been out most of the day.

Greystone
2012-12-16, 12:06 AM
I am currently still needing EoTs from the Champions of Sovereignty, Executive Bureaucracy, Gear's Chosen, Heladuit Court, Orc Uprising, Ram Revolution, Silversmith's Guild and Technists Guild. Either you forgot to send one, I accidentally deleted it to make room in my PM box or the server ate it; but whatever the reason, I'd appreciate it if you all could get them in soon.

I'm having some family issues, but I should be able to tomorrow.

Zemalac
2012-12-16, 10:05 PM
I was busier than I expected I would be this weekend, and at this point I think I need to switch to working on the 2000-word essay I have due in a couple days before I work on EoTs more. Just figured I'd warn you that the results of this turn may take longer to get back to you.

Zemalac
2012-12-22, 01:13 AM
This turn was rather harsh for some people, I think.

I have a question I must ask you all, regarding when the next turn should be due. I'm on break right now, so I could easily run a turn next weekend, which would give you a week to negotiate and plan things out: however, this is also the holiday season, which means that people might not have much time to devote to scheming this week. So, the question is thus: do you want a one-week or a two-week turn this time?

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-22, 01:14 AM
I am good for a one week turn. I understand that some people aren't however.

ragingrage
2012-12-22, 01:19 AM
I'm good for a one week turn, but I can do it 2 weeks if that's what others want.

Grimsage Matt
2012-12-22, 01:23 AM
One week turn is fine by me

Greystone
2012-12-22, 01:25 AM
I'm good for one week. I'll respond to this turn tomorrow.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-22, 01:26 AM
I can do one turn, but would prefer 2 if it won't screw over anyone. I may be busy some of the coming days, and I'm not sure what the ramifications of this turn are gonna be, but I'd be willing to bet there will be ALOT of talking.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-22, 01:37 AM
Guys, I think a 2 week turn would be better.

I can do a one week turn, but I believe that most people will have to have long conversations that will be inevitably delayed by the holydays.

At least wait until tomorrow to decide. I will post something very interesting when I wake up.

oblivion6
2012-12-22, 02:37 AM
Interesting turn.

I am good for a 1 or 2 week turn. Doesnt matter to me.

Thelonius
2012-12-22, 02:57 AM
I'm good for 1 or 2 turns. And yeah... Unexpected twists all the way.

Edit: Heladuits did the Intelligent Birds project :) There's a reason I like those guys.

Edit-Edit: I hope Gear's Chosen are still in game. Their faction is an enemy of mine, but they are really well played.

Eldan
2012-12-22, 05:34 AM
Well, I'm bowing out of this game. It went about as I thought it would, though I honestly expected to be crushed much earlier. Good show, everyone, I had fun along the way.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-22, 06:34 AM
Ha! Oh man. But I was secretly planning to betray everyone later. Hehe.

Eldan
2012-12-22, 06:59 AM
Of course you were.

I think I just proved something to me, regarding total war games.

There are two ways to participate in these that I can see: make a more or less sensible faction, and have all your plans and offers of alliance ignored by everyone else for the rest of the game. At best, achieve some minor victories when you are a passive member of an alliance who will just have you along for your stats.

Or play the most loud and offensive faction possible and attack everyone. You'll get killed eventually, but at least you'll be a part of the game. I think I'll stick with this from now on. Perhaps I can eventually build a reputation.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-22, 10:20 AM
Eldan, the blackfists were awesome.

It was incredibly fun to discuss with them, and to fight them!!


Looking forward to be your ally in the future :smallsmile:

I won't backstab (Not too much)

Greystone
2012-12-22, 10:28 AM
Of course you were.

I think I just proved something to me, regarding total war games.

There are two ways to participate in these that I can see: make a more or less sensible faction, and have all your plans and offers of alliance ignored by everyone else for the rest of the game. At best, achieve some minor victories when you are a passive member of an alliance who will just have you along for your stats.

Or play the most loud and offensive faction possible and attack everyone. You'll get killed eventually, but at least you'll be a part of the game. I think I'll stick with this from now on. Perhaps I can eventually build a reputation.

You can have fun with a sensible faction. The EBSA has been on the speartip of a great many of the major conflicts in the city.

Eldan
2012-12-22, 11:19 AM
Eh, well. I take the last five or so TW games I was in as evidence against that, really. Perhaps I'm just unable to play sensible factions right.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-22, 11:36 AM
The funny thing is that if I take the Hand's last public notice alone, he looks like a swell guy.

Sure, we are different, but in the end he looks like someone we can talk to and negotiate.

I simply had no way to talk to him, me being a noble and him being an anarchist.


But to be honest, it was fun to have the Blackfist as they were. Broken City would not have been as great with them, and it will sure be different afterwards.

The Fist will be missed. Long live to the Fist.

Eldan
2012-12-22, 11:37 AM
Oh, don't worry. I had contingency plans up. They won't resolve during hte game, but the Fist isn't entirely gone.

But I don't have any stat points left, so there's little point in continuing.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-22, 12:02 PM
Glad to hear that the fist is not entirely gone.


Well, political airstrike launched. Waiting for confirmation on target's status.


I love the smell of lawyers in the morning :smallcool:

Murska
2012-12-22, 12:06 PM
Mm. I wish we had a Laurier player.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-22, 12:13 PM
Glad to hear that the fist is not entirely gone.


Well, political airstrike launched. Waiting for confirmation on target's status.


I love the smell of lawyers in the morning :smallcool:

It's ironic really. You and the Ram and me and the King were more or less trying to do the same thing. Except we each were convinced one another was part of the problem. I think things got a bit confused. And a lot of my men died. :smallfrown:

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-22, 12:23 PM
It is just how you say.


But from Lord Wallen's point of view, it looks as I posted: The King was using the Wren and Wardens to advance his own position by uniting his enemies and betraying his other allies, using the RSA as a scapegoat and an excuse.


You have to admit it looks bad; at least. I believe I have evidence to make a good case.

Specially since, despite the Kings claims that he was moving against the RSA in the shadows and that the Wren was another secret ally, it was Lodstrom Party and the SGA the ones who did most of the fighting (The EBSA doing the rest), and the Wren never gave signs of being such ally.


The sad thing is that the Fist didn't stand much of a chance. Most of their allies were false.

PS: Sorry about your men. This things happen. I keep getting the feeling that it will happen to me shortly. :smallbiggrin:

Greystone
2012-12-22, 12:28 PM
Eh, well. I take the last five or so TW games I was in as evidence against that, really. Perhaps I'm just unable to play sensible factions right.

I think when you say senisble, you almost equate it with passive and boring. You can play an upright, ethical nation and be fun. Switzerland may not be fun, but the UN security council could be.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-22, 12:29 PM
Well, the basic reason I didn't reveal is that every time there was a fight all my men died and had to GTFO. :smalltongue:

I was going to make peace this turn either way.

Eldan
2012-12-22, 12:42 PM
I think when you say senisble, you almost equate it with passive and boring. You can play an upright, ethical nation and be fun. Switzerland may not be fun, but the UN security council could be.

Not.... really. I played the asteroid belt in one game, and that went nowhere. I'm playing the Integration in Green Star currently, and all the deals I negotiated in the first turn were ignored by people, so I had to write a second EoT that consisted of nothing but investing all my stats into myself. In Total War: Game of Thrones I started a civil war between half a dozen NPCs, humiliated several other players, committed high treason and embarassed the Targaryen King. And was ignored. And so on.

Heck, here in Broken City, I conquered the prison and started executing people in the arena and no one really cared at all.

Anyway. I guess I'll just concentrate my attention on the Second Roman Empire now. There, at least, I always have the option to nuke someone when I'm ignored.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-22, 01:28 PM
Not.... really. I played the asteroid belt in one game, and that went nowhere. I'm playing the Integration in Green Star currently, and all the deals I negotiated in the first turn were ignored by people, so I had to write a second EoT that consisted of nothing but investing all my stats into myself. In Total War: Game of Thrones I started a civil war between half a dozen NPCs, humiliated several other players, committed high treason and embarassed the Targaryen King. And was ignored. And so on.

Heck, here in Broken City, I conquered the prison and started executing people in the arena and no one really cared at all.

Anyway. I guess I'll just concentrate my attention on the Second Roman Empire now. There, at least, I always have the option to nuke someone when I'm ignored.

You know, you never replied to one of my messages in that game. I asked what did you mean about sending some of my people to the Integration (Do I lose stats, do you gain some leverage, something ilke that?)

Eldan
2012-12-22, 01:29 PM
I'm not exactly sure about what you mean, I don't remember anything on sending people.

But I think I'm dropping out of Green Star anyway.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-22, 01:33 PM
Whoops, sorry. It was the collective, not you.

Zemalac
2012-12-22, 01:42 PM
Not.... really. I played the asteroid belt in one game, and that went nowhere. I'm playing the Integration in Green Star currently, and all the deals I negotiated in the first turn were ignored by people, so I had to write a second EoT that consisted of nothing but investing all my stats into myself. In Total War: Game of Thrones I started a civil war between half a dozen NPCs, humiliated several other players, committed high treason and embarassed the Targaryen King. And was ignored. And so on.

Heck, here in Broken City, I conquered the prison and started executing people in the arena and no one really cared at all.

Anyway. I guess I'll just concentrate my attention on the Second Roman Empire now. There, at least, I always have the option to nuke someone when I'm ignored.

People only really care about things when it affects themselves, I've noticed. To add another example to your list, the Heladuit Court has been evicting poor people from their neighborhoods and replacing their tenements with upscale apartments, and the Blackfist didn't even notice (though, to be fair, you did have other matters drawing your attention at the time it was mentioned in the IC).

Eldan
2012-12-22, 01:43 PM
People only really care about things when it affects themselves, I've noticed. To add another example to your list, the Heladuit Court has been evicting poor people from their neighborhoods and replacing their tenements with upscale apartments, and the Blackfist didn't even notice (though, to be fair, you did have other matters drawing your attention at the time it was mentioned in the IC).

Yeah. The Heladuit Court was on the list.

Grimsage Matt
2012-12-22, 01:44 PM
Blackfist has no stats left? Okay then, I can get my EoT in soon, because there is something I'll have to take care off as fast as possible.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-22, 01:49 PM
Eldan, I can't stop laughing about your last IC post.

Somehow I read it with Nelson's voice, and now I'm laughing out loud.

EDIT: The Heladuits have been doing WHAT?! There's just too much things in this game to keep track of.

Eldan
2012-12-22, 01:53 PM
EDIT: The Heladuits have been doing WHAT?! There's just too much things in this game to keep track of.

Well, the Blackfist sort of had a point, is what I'm saying.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-22, 01:54 PM
Well, the Blackfist sort of had a point, is what I'm saying.

Well, yeah, I knew they had.
But I was so over my head that I didn't realize they had a point in that particular direction.

Thelonius
2012-12-22, 02:01 PM
People only really care about things when it affects themselves, I've noticed. To add another example to your list, the Heladuit Court has been evicting poor people from their neighborhoods and replacing their tenements with upscale apartments, and the Blackfist didn't even notice (though, to be fair, you did have other matters drawing your attention at the time it was mentioned in the IC).

I notice everything (though I tend to mix up nations). I just don't find anything wrong with rich nobles acting as rich nobles. Hey - Heladuits are doing it again, those magnificent bastards, was pretty much my reaction :smallbiggrin:.

Nyrt
2012-12-22, 02:17 PM
Damn. Over the last few turns I've totally lost track of what's going on. The last turn had zero conversations I could read.

Copper8642
2012-12-22, 04:07 PM
I have to say, I think my preferred faction so far is a mixture of Eldan's "Sensible and boring" and "active but fatal" styles, and is something I've mostly pulled off here in Broken City. As far as large-scale, multi-faction projects go, I'm mostly a pile of stats for the SGA to use. On my own projects, however... I spent upwards of a season committing genocide on some elf wannabes because they were uncouth and insulted Meredia, I've kicked the poor out of Heavensgate, and I take partial credit for the formation of the Council because I told them off so hard they managed to get their crap together and formed to oppose people like me. If I'm talking to someone and manage to interpret anything at all as a personal slight or I just don't want what they're offering, I will rudely tell them off even if mechanically it might be a better idea not to, because Markus is a ****.

Meanwhile, in my business dealings, people dealings, my VIP of choice is literally an orcish calculator. No rudeness or fondness, just numbers. I can make sane decisions and elitist superior ones in the same game. It's the best.

Also, Thel, do you have a time by which you think we should have our poems/stories done, because if I don't have a deadline I probably won't write anything.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-22, 04:08 PM
It's ironic really. You and the Ram and me and the King were more or less trying to do the same thing. Except we each were convinced one another was part of the problem. I think things got a bit confused. And a lot of my men died. :smallfrown:

That... Is kind of funny. I suppose that the Ram and James are to blame for that, seeing as how I was using him as my reason to join the RSA.

Edan - Don't worry, I'll continue the fight for the people. Just in a slightly less crazy way. :smalltongue:

Eldan
2012-12-22, 04:30 PM
LEss crazy is also less fun :smalltongue:

Also, as I said to Imperial Psycho on Skype:

I should get an achievement for this: "The Blackfist: be betrayed by all three of your allies, in the same turn, independently."

Not that I didn't expect it. You didn't make much of a secret out of it.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-22, 04:50 PM
Ah, I love the Heladuit Court so much. It's a pity you murdered a bunch of my guys, I think the Wren and Markus could actually find a lot to agree on. :smalltongue:

ForzaFiori
2012-12-22, 04:53 PM
The way I saw it Eldan, everyone in the RSA was trying to find the perfect moment to screw over the others. I was just trying to turn on y'all before y'all did on me.

Murska
2012-12-22, 04:56 PM
And that's exactly why Democracy is a plague and should be purged.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-22, 05:03 PM
I hope the SGA invites me to chat soon, I think they'll like my terms.

Eldan
2012-12-22, 05:07 PM
The way I saw it Eldan, everyone in the RSA was trying to find the perfect moment to screw over the others. I was just trying to turn on y'all before y'all did on me.

I wasn't planning on betraying anyone.

Thelonius
2012-12-22, 05:35 PM
The Blackfists undoing was becoming part of a power structure - once they became RSA, an organization seeking to rule the city, things went downhill for them.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-22, 05:37 PM
Was the RSA seeking to rule the city?

Murska
2012-12-22, 05:41 PM
Once they joined the RSA they became powerful enough to actually threaten the real rulers of the city, who promptly convinced their allies to betray them and then slapped them down.

Thelonius
2012-12-22, 06:37 PM
Well, I think it looks like everybody except Blackfists were secretly working for or with the nobles. Those sneaky, scheming nobles. :smallwink:

razovor
2012-12-22, 08:10 PM
I disappear for one day, and everything changes. Heh. Lets see what I can do about this.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-23, 05:36 AM
I like how the Ram and Wallen both refer to my gang as 'dreaded' and 'horrid' ... you... you have seen my REP right?

Pretty rich coming from the guy with REP 1. :smalltongue:

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-23, 07:43 AM
Well, Deep down, I'm an elitist.

So yes, it's IC but unjustified.


How in the world did you get all that Rep? Skeeve Redeye?

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-23, 08:37 AM
Pretty much. That and fighting madmen. The people love a hero.

Thelonius
2012-12-23, 09:49 AM
I'd say...


According to a loose enough definition of 'hero', we qualify. Well, more or less. The point is that good deeds were done and we were nearby. :smallbiggrin:

ForzaFiori
2012-12-23, 10:14 AM
The Revolution has seen the Wren as a rival since you sprang up right next to us. Besides, you gotta lay it on thick for the plebes - no one likes hearing "we're the good guys, and we gotta kill these other good guys". They want it all nice and black and white. :smallbiggrin:

Eldan
2012-12-23, 10:34 AM
Hah. Well, now the democracy shows their true face, don't they.

Copper8642
2012-12-23, 01:58 PM
Also, Thel, do you have a time by which you think we should have our poems/stories done, because if I don't have a deadline I probably won't write anything.

Thheellloonniiuusssssssss

Thelonius
2012-12-23, 02:25 PM
I was sort of planning not to go into poems and stories, as I'm not that well versed in Theater as Ascott Lacelles. I was thinking to leave it up to dice and my cunning plotting. But I can try - in which case EoT would be the deadline, would it not.

Copper8642
2012-12-23, 07:44 PM
Even if it's only something short, it would be an excuse for me to write something fluffy for once, something I can't often get myself to do.

Yeah, I figured it would probably still be a stat-based confrontation, but a few couplets would be fun writing. Next EOT? You got it.

oblivion6
2012-12-24, 11:02 AM
Thel, do you want us to send VIPs to the adventure meeting or is it just fluff? I suppose I can use the Trader if need be.

Nyrt
2012-12-24, 11:08 AM
Thel, do you want us to send VIPs to the adventure meeting or is it just fluff? I suppose I can use the Trader if need be.

Yeah, that's what I was wondering too.

oblivion6
2012-12-24, 11:13 AM
I wont be able to post until later this afternoom, but one thing I noticed in the Adventure! meetings...It is actually the Technists and not the Gears with the airship...Unless the Gears built their own. If thats the case it needs to be destroyed NOW.

Nyrt
2012-12-24, 01:11 PM
I wont be able to post until later this afternoom, but one thing I noticed in the Adventure! meetings...It is actually the Technists and not the Gears with the airship...Unless the Gears built their own. If thats the case it needs to be destroyed NOW.

Oops! Corrected. Sorry 'bout that.

Seriously though, armoring an airship is really impractical. Tha amount of weight that would add would mean it can't spare any weight. As such, you won't be able to carry just about any ballast, and the elevators (so called because they elevate the nose of the ship; they actually move laterally) couldn't have a substantual weight, so the ship would be very, very hard to manuver, even for an airship, which is saying a lot. If you needed to gain altitude, you would literally have to drop the armor, at which point it becomes totally useless anyway. That or drop your supplies, which would kill you in the long run because airships are really slow.

razovor
2012-12-24, 01:13 PM
Zemelac, you noted in my EoT response that I sent 1.wealth to the mercantile Guild, but my wealth doesn't seem to have changed.... :smallconfused:

Grimsage Matt
2012-12-24, 01:14 PM
Which is why we are working on the fighter jet, but that will take a while.

Plus, we've managed to lighten the armor and weapons. Now we need to boost the engines power:smallsigh:

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-24, 01:19 PM
Oops! Corrected. Sorry 'bout that.

Seriously though, armoring an airship is really impractical. Tha amount of weight that would add would mean it can't spare any weight. As such, you won't be able to carry just about any ballast, and the elevators (so called because they elevate the nose of the ship; they actually move laterally) couldn't have a substantual weight, so the ship would be very, very hard to manuver, even for an airship, which is saying a lot. If you needed to gain altitude, you would literally have to drop the armor, at which point it becomes totally useless anyway. That or drop your supplies, which would kill you in the long run because airships are really slow.

You are thinking of it like a tank with plates of heavy armor everywhere. An airship doesn't need that kind of armor. It just needs to keep gas from escaping and igniting. Which means you want structure the envelope with special materials notnecessarily heavy metal plates. Armor on the cabin just comes out of the lifting capacity.

Thelonius
2012-12-24, 01:31 PM
I was thinking non-PM, but do note that Ascott Lascelles is a public figure, who doesn't care for secrecy, even when it would be advisable. We can discuss the public side this turn, since I need him for Theater Duel, and the secret stuff text turn, when he is free (though possibly disgraced... in which case a journey from the city is just what the doctor ordered)

HerbieRAI
2012-12-24, 01:54 PM
Sorry bout that, I meant technists with the airship. We get all those heritics confused. We wouldn't be looking for battle on the trip, so we could lose some armour for supplies. Just trying to think of ways to make the trip easier and safer

Thelonius
2012-12-24, 02:10 PM
The explorers never look for combat, then we loot conduct archaeological research in some ancient temple and bam - a bunch of angry natives are shooting darts at us.

Grimsage Matt
2012-12-24, 02:16 PM
The best defence is a 2 ton flying armored warship leting loose a wall of lead followed by a saturation bombing. Maybe with a Napalm run.

Sure, it's not the fastest or most manevurable thing in the air, but how many people with midevil weapons are going to be scared out of their pants if this thing opens bombing out of spell range?

Edit; The Best defence is one where there are no suviors to defend against:smallwink:

Murska
2012-12-24, 02:20 PM
I'm lucky I received my shipment of Verdan anti-aircraft weaponry this turn.

EDIT: So, eh, are we going to have one or two week turn? Because I'm about ready to post my EoT now.

Thelonius
2012-12-24, 03:23 PM
Probably two weeks - I haven't got reply from Zemalac on my messages.

And some of those native people have scary voodoo magic. And their own airships, though we won't be going to those places.

Zemalac
2012-12-24, 03:51 PM
I'm lucky I received my shipment of Verdan anti-aircraft weaponry this turn.

EDIT: So, eh, are we going to have one or two week turn? Because I'm about ready to post my EoT now.

I think most people wanted a one-week turn. The only thing that might slow us down is that I haven't had time to reply to anyone in the IC thread yet--past couple of days have been very busy for me. That little problem should be over soon enough, though, so unless things change drastically I think EoTs ought to be due this weekend. Let's say Saturday.

oblivion6
2012-12-24, 04:47 PM
Zemelac, you noted in my EoT response that I sent 1.wealth to the mercantile Guild, but my wealth doesn't seem to have changed.... :smallconfused:

He marked it in my EoT. Many thanks, it was unexpected but I appreciate it nonetheless.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-24, 04:56 PM
I think most people wanted a one-week turn. The only thing that might slow us down is that I haven't had time to reply to anyone in the IC thread yet--past couple of days have been very busy for me. That little problem should be over soon enough, though, so unless things change drastically I think EoTs ought to be due this weekend. Let's say Saturday.

Cool. Two week turns make me go crazy. :smalltongue:

oblivion6
2012-12-24, 05:10 PM
Cool. Two week turns make me go crazy. :smalltongue:

Agreed. I think i'm about ready to write mine as well.

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-24, 05:12 PM
I'm not. I need a response to my PM, and then I need to chat with a few NPCs first. Still I think I should have it ready by Saturday.

Thelonius
2012-12-24, 05:13 PM
This is actually Tuesday... so we have a bit of time to conclude negotiations. Okay, then I'm also for one week then. I'll reply to Silversmiths and Madam Betoui later.

oblivion6
2012-12-24, 07:34 PM
I would not discount the possibility of gnomish priests wearing golden undergarments.

That post made my day, Thelonius.

razovor
2012-12-25, 09:53 AM
''I would like to propose to hold a meeting of all major city factions in the Daimot Palace to establish city authority.''

You're a little late Doc, Wallen proposed the idea two pages ago;



“This crisis has showed the weakness of the current system of government. The Council was effective in stopping the Librarian, but we have proved to be unreliable in the long term. I would like to propose for a special meeting in Palace, open to all factions.

The government must reform, or fall down.


I've been sitting in the palace, waiting for anyone else to turn up since Sunday. :smalltongue:


A representative of the Champions of Sovereignty arrives at the meeting at the palace.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-25, 10:47 AM
XD he is not THAT wrong, Razovor. It's not like anyone (Except for you) came.

razovor
2012-12-25, 10:58 AM
This proves I'm the only one who cares about forming a government! :smalltongue:

Yours was at the end of a rather long post. Surprised I didn't miss it to be honest.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-25, 11:01 AM
Thanks for reminding me; I was going to mention that in my post.:smalltongue:

Lodstom Party is not the most concise apple in the box, it seems.

Eldan
2012-12-25, 06:30 PM
This game is getting stale. Everyone is just talking.

Grimsage Matt
2012-12-25, 06:32 PM
The Ballon has a BAG* in it, standard issue.

*Big A....S....S Gun

ForzaFiori
2012-12-25, 06:54 PM
This game is getting stale. Everyone is just talking.

I'm sure when compromise fails during this set of talks, we'll have a few more interesting rounds before we start over again. Seems to be the cycle this game takes.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-25, 07:02 PM
This game is getting stale. Everyone is just talking.

It's not EoT yet. That's what everything that isn't EoT IS. :smalltongue:

Eldan
2012-12-25, 07:18 PM
But it's boring talk. No one's drawing carricatures. Or accusing anyone of being a criminal gang/burgeoise/evil cult/The Man.

You killed me. Now be entertaining, at least. :smalltongue:

Grimsage Matt
2012-12-25, 07:19 PM
Thats because we're just arriving. The name calling and the Harper style poltics will occur later.

Eldan
2012-12-25, 07:20 PM
Let's hope so, or the spirit of the Hand will have to start publishing papers again.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-25, 07:25 PM
But it's boring talk. No one's drawing carricatures. Or accusing anyone of being a criminal gang/burgeoise/evil cult/The Man.

You killed me. Now be entertaining, at least. :smalltongue:

Well, I did accuse the King of high treason and unveiled a huge conspiracy.


I want to see what happens in Ascott's adventure.

That will be interesting.

Thelonius
2012-12-26, 07:03 AM
And going after each other's throats in 3... 2... 1... :smalltongue:

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-26, 07:19 AM
Well, I did accuse the King of high treason and unveiled a huge conspiracy.


I want to see what happens in Ascott's adventure.

That will be interesting.

Huge conspiracy? Hardly. And I was wondering... High Treason against whom? The Merchants aren't the government, last I checked.

Murska
2012-12-26, 07:25 AM
I see 'high command over the army' as having to give away my own sovereignty to someone I don't trust for no gain, while no-one else is really affected as their militaries aren't an army, but private guards or mercenaries. Unless you suggest Tarmin as the Lord Protector.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-26, 07:27 AM
I think he wants to establish a separate army for the city, in addition to the Wardens.

Also, I consider my fine gentlemen to be an army. They're trained well enough. They'd have performed a lot better if they weren't continually betrayed. :smalltongue:

Murska
2012-12-26, 07:35 AM
I think he wants to establish a separate army for the city, in addition to the Wardens.

Also, I consider my fine gentlemen to be an army. They're trained well enough. They'd have performed a lot better if they weren't continually betrayed. :smalltongue:

Well, I haven't been informed. And regardless, if said high command is to have influence over the Wardens, I'm losing more than anyone else. If not, it's a pretty symbolic position unless a lot of factions want to spend a lot of money on building an army for some other player as opposed to growing their own.

Thelonius
2012-12-26, 08:08 AM
I believe there was talk of various benefits for the Wardens, with expectations, that they will accept city authority. I mean at this moment they are pretty much doing everything for their own benefit. Sure their interests coincide with the city in the matters of defense, but there must be guarantees they'll not make things worse for Sav Altulus in other areas due to their own agenda.

Murska
2012-12-26, 08:18 AM
Maybe once said benefits start materializing we'll be more favourable to civilian oversight.

Thelonius
2012-12-26, 08:29 AM
Well, as you are shooting this idea down, since you won't accept anybody's authority, there is no point in offering you any material incentives. Anyway, this just means Wardens won't be part of the official city military.

razovor
2012-12-26, 08:31 AM
I'd still like to hear the incentives. Not that I'll able to contribute to the military anyway.

I guess I can buy Blackpowder weapons for people. Do we get a discount, if we buy enough for every faction in the city?

Murska
2012-12-26, 08:37 AM
Well, as you are shooting this idea down, since you won't accept anybody's authority, there is no point in offering you any material incentives. Anyway, this just means Wardens won't be part of the official city military.

That's just your assumption and has no basis in anything I've actually said.

I just won't accept commands from anyone I don't trust.

Thelonius
2012-12-26, 08:38 AM
Frankly, King James is in the best position to contribute to the military. With your reputation and connection to the people, you are the most suited to lead a popular recruitment campaign.

I was planning to discuss the plan for creation of national military and the role of Wardens in it after we got government done.


Looking at decisions that have been made lately, I'm not certain I trust the viewpoint of most people.

You haven't exactly defined, whom you'll trust.

Murska
2012-12-26, 09:16 AM
I haven't exactly heard any suggestions either. Perhaps the Militia of Order and Justice have someone with real experience.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-26, 01:48 PM
while no-one else is really affected as their militaries aren't an army, but private guards or mercenaries. Unless you suggest Tarmin as the Lord Protector.

I have an army. It's small, but I have been calling it the Revolutionary/Republican (depending on how I feel that day) Army the entire game.

oblivion6
2012-12-26, 01:58 PM
So before I write my EoT, did anyone object to Vasiri's proposal of the Trader handling the SGA Central resources?

SGA(OOC)
I planned to split the wealth between aiding in the reconstruction of the walls and forming a sort of watch organization jointly controlled by the SGA. Similiar to Blackspell Watch or whatever that group is called.

How much wealth is there in the fund anyways? 3-4, right?

Thelonius
2012-12-26, 02:29 PM
The importance of the monarchy/democracy fluff is simply astounding.

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-26, 03:17 PM
So before I write my EoT, did anyone object to Vasiri's proposal of the Trader handling the SGA Central resources?

SGA(OOC)
I planned to split the wealth between aiding in the reconstruction of the walls and forming a sort of watch organization jointly controlled by the SGA. Similiar to Blackspell Watch or whatever that group is called.

How much wealth is there in the fund anyways? 3-4, right?

I do actually. The Sausage Guild was the main backer of the project that got the SGA infrastructure in the first place. A major backer of the emerald mine and industrial projects. And the SGA Commerce House is in Guild Row. And I will say so IC later today when I'm not so busy.

There should be 4 if you give the wealth that King James reimbursed you to the SGA. Which you should given that you didn't pay the Wardens personally.

Murska
2012-12-26, 03:24 PM
I have an army. It's small, but I have been calling it the Revolutionary/Republican (depending on how I feel that day) Army the entire game.

What it actually is is a bunch of rabble with no skill or training and little leadership. :smalltongue:

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-26, 03:32 PM
I have an army. It actually is an army even if IC I don't call it one. It's 2-3 times the size of anyone else's except the Wardens and possibly King James. They've trained and fought extensively both against normal armies and horrible monsters in the deep. And while they're tactics are unorthodox they are highly disciplined and skilled.

I simply lack a General to lead them, because someone decided to assassinate my VIP.

Murska
2012-12-26, 03:33 PM
Okay, I grant yours is an army. I mean, it's almost half the size of my own Military.

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-26, 03:40 PM
Okay, I grant yours is an army. I mean, it's almost half the size of my own Military.

I suppose that could be true. But I doubt it, as it would leave you with very few points for anything else, and I have seen indications that your espionage stat is fairly decent.

Thelonius
2012-12-26, 03:41 PM
And certainly the Battle Mages of Wardens are as fearsome? :smalltongue:

Murska
2012-12-26, 03:46 PM
And certainly the Battle Mages of Wardens are as fearsome? :smalltongue:

My Magic is used for nonlethal purposes only. In case I have to face enemy mages, I just nullify their abilities.

I don't have much Espionage, I have two powerful Espionage VIPs.

Thelonius
2012-12-26, 04:20 PM
Nobody takes my warning of the Warlords & intrigues of major powers seriously :smallfrown: I'm beginning to feel like a crazy person.

oblivion6
2012-12-26, 04:32 PM
Nobody takes my warning of the Warlords & intrigues of major powers seriously :smallfrown: I'm beginning to feel like a crazy person.

I believe you. I know just how crafty the Warlords can be. At the very least, I expect Greeves would be able to set aside his grievances to fight Sav Altulas if he was threatened. In fact, he told me much the same thing last I spoke to him a long while ago.

Thelonius
2012-12-26, 04:34 PM
Well, let's not bring up such things in OOC. :smallwink:

Edit: So I'm calling for War, while Wardens want peace. Odd.

razovor
2012-12-26, 05:38 PM
Ragnar, James isn't the one speaking, it's Ambrose. :smalltongue:

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-26, 05:41 PM
Ragnar, James isn't the one speaking, it's Ambrose. :smalltongue:

Whoops, and there I was almost telling him how could he have the nerve to show up with the charges that exist against him!!!

Edited :smalltongue:

Also, I forgot:


Huge conspiracy? Hardly. And I was wondering... High Treason against whom? The Merchants aren't the government, last I checked.

Well, technically the Merchants are in the Council, so yes they are.

Second, setting up an Anarchist attack on your allies to have an excuse to gain further power... That gives a new definition to High Treason.

Thelonius
2012-12-26, 05:51 PM
Aaand [REDACTED]

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-26, 05:52 PM
Well, technically the Merchants are in the Council, so yes they are.

Second, setting up an Anarchist attack on your allies to have an excuse to gain further power... That gives a new definition to High Treason.

Treachery isn't Treason. And the Council is a government in the same way I'm a fish.

Thelonius
2012-12-26, 06:09 PM
Heh, I like how my relation with Wardens is evolving into deep and deeper hatred. At this point we can barely speak without insulting each other. We met in the Shattered Lands and talked... only to discover that we really can't understand each other. :smallbiggrin:.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-26, 06:32 PM
Treachery isn't Treason. And the Council is a government in the same way I'm a fish.

Well, the Council is the only government the city has so far.

Thinking about it, it doesn't say much in favor of the city :smallbiggrin:

Murska
2012-12-26, 07:05 PM
Heh, I like how my relation with Wardens is evolving into deep and deeper hatred. At this point we can barely speak without insulting each other. We met in the Shattered Lands and talked... only to discover that we really can't understand each other. :smallbiggrin:.

You mean you can't speak without insulting me. I'm studiously avoiding insults.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-26, 07:08 PM
Well, the Council is the only government the city has so far.

Thinking about it, it doesn't say much in favor of the city :smallbiggrin:

And I'm the only fish in this room.

No matter how often I say it, I'm still not a fish.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-26, 07:11 PM
Well, we are technically not in a room, so no you aren't.

For all I know, you could be a very intelligent, particularly articulate fish, typing from the depths of the ocean :smallbiggrin:

Thelonius
2012-12-26, 07:12 PM
Well, you count them as insults, since they put your judgement to question. A judgement, that I on my part suspect, Wardens are presenting only to be obstructive. So from my point of view, you are just being more circumspect with your insults.

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-26, 07:13 PM
By this room I meant the room I am in. So nyeh. :smalltongue:

For all I know the Council could be an incredibly efficient government working from behind the scenes, but we all know it's just some guys who don't even work together, so lets not kid ourselves, ok?

ForzaFiori
2012-12-26, 07:49 PM
What it actually is is a bunch of rabble with no skill or training and little leadership. :smalltongue:

Krodok is an excellent general. I'll give you the fact that the rest of the army is iffy, but my general and his core bodyguards were one of the top mercenary companies in the Shattered Lands and beyond before settling down in Sav Altulas, and the legions of the Imperial third make up a part of the rest of the army, and aren't bad. Recent recruits, less so, but what can you do when all you have to recruit from are the poor and destitute?

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-26, 07:53 PM
Krodok is an excellent general. I'll give you the fact that the rest of the army is iffy, but my general and his core bodyguards were one of the top mercenary companies in the Shattered Lands and beyond before settling down in Sav Altulas, and the legions of the Imperial third make up a part of the rest of the army, and aren't bad. Recent recruits, less so, but what can you do when all you have to recruit from are the poor and destitute?

Train them into excellent fighters.

Having a rough background can result in even better soldiers not worse. If your current quality of soldier is subpar blame it on poor trainers not recruit background.

Thelonius
2012-12-26, 08:06 PM
(Legions would be semi-independant military forces with specific focuses, such as the Wardens. They should focus on their mission and colaborate with any wars the City is inmersed in. Watches would be civil guardian groups, in charge of preventing crimes within the City, but could be called to help in case of a siege or a catastrophe). NO. Legions should be dependent on the government, and not semi-independent in any way. The other parts, however, I support.

I believe Wallen means semi-independent, as in not part of his faction. A similar arrangement to the Blackspell Watch, that answers to the Board of Trustees, but follows the ESBA approved code of guarding the Blacksgage District. We can stretch it to a degree, but ordering it to say attack factions in other Districts would have negative impact on their MOR. So a Legion of the City would be an NPC Faction commanded by Lord-Protector, with a code of being loyal to the nation.


11 - To demand the Lord Protector to organize an Assembly next month, representing with justice all factions of the City? NO. The Lord Protector should deal with the military, not the law making Assembly

I think it's more like a - Lord Protector will ensure the Assembly is organized, even if certain factions don't want it. Basically protecting and enforcing its creation.

oblivion6
2012-12-26, 08:23 PM
Krodok is an excellent general.

Same with Brador. He served as a mercenary in all sorts of engagements before coming to serve the Guild. Sure his soldiers are not the greatest, but they are decent. Atleast they were before both the Wardens and the RSA came knocking on my door, forcing me to start from scratch.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-26, 08:24 PM
Train them into excellent fighters.

Having a rough background can result in even better soldiers not worse. If your current quality of soldier is subpar blame it on poor trainers not recruit background.

I'm working on it. I've had other things to do recently, like taking out the blackfists.


I believe Wallen means semi-independent, as in not part of his faction. A similar arrangement to the Blackspell Watch, that answers to the Board of Trustees, but follows the ESBA approved code of guarding the Blacksgage District. We can stretch it to a degree, but ordering it to say attack factions in other Districts would have negative impact on their MOR. So a Legion of the City would be an NPC Faction commanded by Lord-Protector, with a code of being loyal to the nation.

I think it's more like a - Lord Protector will ensure the Assembly is organized, even if certain factions don't want it. Basically protecting and enforcing its creation.

If those are both the case, then my votes will change to YES for those issues.

Eldan
2012-12-26, 08:28 PM
I'm working on it. I've had other things to do recently, like taking out the blackfists.

I quite enjoy being public enemy number one. And dying for a good cause.

Murska
2012-12-26, 08:35 PM
If those are both the case, then my votes will change to YES for those issues.

No. No, no, no. Always remember - you're voting for what is written, not what is (supposedly) meant.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-26, 08:49 PM
THe problem is figuring out what the written stuff means - The way it's written it could be one way or the other. That's why I'm waiting for Ragnar to get on and give his say, since he's the one that posted the vote originally.

Murska
2012-12-26, 09:01 PM
It has to be clarified in the original agreement, people explaining what it means later has no binding value.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-26, 09:24 PM
Let's just say it would be clarified in the final agreement.

Now, the condition the Wardens put... An unanimous vote. It's deply unsettling.


I quite enjoy being public enemy number one. And dying for a good cause.

The Blackfists were the public enemy number awesome.
Loved to exchange caricatures with them.

Greystone
2012-12-26, 10:23 PM
I spend a day with the family (and some hours without power) and there is three extra pages. Oy vey.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-27, 12:03 AM
I love those days. Gives me something to do at night.

Thelonius
2012-12-27, 05:29 AM
I quite enjoy being public enemy number one. And dying for a good cause.

Worry not Blackfist. I shall pick up the torch of flaunting the so called morals of the society.

Copper8642
2012-12-27, 07:18 PM
The SGA is formed, on its majority, by commoners.

Do you want me to leave in disgust?

...

Don't answer that.

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-27, 07:21 PM
Do you want me to leave in disgust?

...

Don't answer that.

Well it is. Unless you want to say the Heladuits outnumber all the other SGA members combined, except possibly the Silversmith's not sure if they claim nobility. And possibly House Laurier but they never say anything in SGA meetings. Even if all three are noble and part of SGA though they're still outnumbered by the other members. That's pretty much the definition of majority.

Copper8642
2012-12-27, 07:25 PM
I'm not saying it's false, I'm saying it's nasty.

ArcaneStomper
2012-12-27, 07:27 PM
I'm not saying it's false, I'm saying it's nasty.

Why? It doesn't imply that all the SGA members are common.

Copper8642
2012-12-27, 07:48 PM
No, but it means enough of them are that the realization might make Markus roil over vomiting for at least a day.

Murska
2012-12-27, 07:53 PM
The Heladuits should join my Monarchist, Elitist and Noble Superiority side.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-27, 07:54 PM
Well... with all due respect, It was there to be seen. It was not hidden.

I can understand if Wallen confused him, or the merchants.
Even the Doctor... He is educated enough to make a man have his doubts on wether or not he has noble heritage.

But how do you confuse the Sausage Guild and the Technists?

Thelonius
2012-12-27, 07:54 PM
Yeah, after about a year it suddenly struck Markus Heladuit, that he wasn't in the Sky District and people around him weren't nobles. :smallbiggrin:

''But they weren't wearing dirty rags and could speak the human speech, instead of the bestial grunts! How was I supposed to know?'' complained the distraught noble later. A new law, requiring all commoners of Sav Altulus to introduce themselves as ''not noblemen'' is rumored to be in the works.

Nobody in the SGA are nobles, apart from Heladuit Court. I don't think it's that strange for a noblemen to engage in business. The Fisher Houses made their wealth from the Lake for example.

I don't believe Laurier are actually present at those meetings. And I'm pretty certain they told me they were commoners. Plus, we shouldn't forget that they are foreigners.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-27, 07:57 PM
"But I shared their wine!! Tasted their food! Who knows what they did that stew with!

The society is crumbling. They even walked in two legs, like the rest of us!"

I think Wallen is the only "real" noble in the SGA, and he is only in it for the Mason's Guild.

Thelonius
2012-12-27, 07:58 PM
I don't count Wallen, as he isn't part of SGA - his proxy Mason Guild is.


The Heladuits should join my Monarchist, Elitist and Noble Superiority side.

Except that King cares about commoners more then about nobles. I believe most of the Champions activities were in the Runner's City. Heladuit Court and maybe in some ways ESGE, are the Elitists & Noble Superiority side. Nobody else is.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-27, 07:59 PM
I'd say that the ESGE is that side alone. The Heladuits are more in the Decadent Supremacist Nobility side.

Murska
2012-12-27, 08:00 PM
Then they should ask me to join the Noble Superiority side.

Grimsage Matt
2012-12-27, 08:02 PM
The Technists clothes could be a lot better, but we're honest hard working folks. Even the Rosens, who are listed in the Genologies as a Noble family, wear the same working clothes as the rest.

And your average Technist recives very good education, just in technical and mechanical matters. They'd probobly be fine taling to wizards (phsyical world view vs metaphsyical).

As for the wine? We drink ale. Cheaper. The stew? Got some herbs and vegatables from the roof-top gardens, and the meat from the Sausage Guild, same as you.

Matt Rosen, the noble that everyone forgets:smalltongue:

Thelonius
2012-12-27, 08:03 PM
Then they should ask me to join the Noble Superiority side.

You? Commoners? I don't recall Wardens expressing any pro-noble sentiments.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-27, 08:03 PM
Also, the Wardens could count as supremacists, but decadent?

They must have bankrupted every wineyard in the Shattered lands with their abstemy.

"What will we do this winter, Winthorpe?"

"I don't know, Joanna. We depended on the drunken warlords for our substeance; and this disciplined wardens don't drink anything but water.

One of them asked me for alcohol for a cut in his foot the other day! can you believe it?"

EDIT: By the way, I can't believe how badly I failed this turn, after how the last few moves turned out. Going to have to change my stile a bit.

Murska
2012-12-27, 09:19 PM
You? Commoners? I don't recall Wardens expressing any pro-noble sentiments.

*shrug* They should ask anyway. I'm useful and desperate.

Copper8642
2012-12-27, 09:21 PM
Yeah, I'm not feigning to have thought everyone was noble, it's just... the difference between silently accepting something and someone finally saying it. Notably, it's also Javier who he sends to do all of his business.

Though I must say, those are some entertaining excepts. :smalltongue:

ForzaFiori
2012-12-27, 09:25 PM
*shrug* They should ask anyway. I'm useful and desperate.

You could always fight for the people. I'd best most of your soldiers come from the downtrodden and oppressed - not many with a cushy life choose to be a soldier.

razovor
2012-12-27, 09:32 PM
Except that King cares about commoners more then about nobles. I believe most of the Champions activities were in the Runner's City. Heladuit Court and maybe in some ways ESGE, are the Elitists & Noble Superiority side. Nobody else is.

The King does not so much believe in the noble/commoner divide as he does in bloodlines.

The gods, those that are benevolent anyway, are known to grant their blessing to particular mortal bloodlines. Those bloodlines then produce mortals who are more capable than other bloodlines.

What we know as the nobility, are simply those bloodlines that have existed long enough for the populace to realise they have been gifted. In times of chaos such as these, the gods may abandon particular bloodlines, and chose others instead. Or new bloodlines may simply be introduced, when the gods feel it appropriate

The bloodlines are not perfectly reliable, and they are not the only source of capable men. Rarely, the gods will decide to create great men from otherwise unexceptional bloodlines. Certainly in times such as these we need more great men.

Capability is how the King would divvy out responsibility, so he will naturally trust the noble bloodlines first, though the merchants have shown great capability. It's quite likely the gods have chosen them to play a key role in this crisis. One might even be a new noble house.
Lord Vassari?
Back to your original point however, the King does believe the 'commonfolk' deserve a lot more than they're getting. Quality of life should be much closer to equal between all people.

Murska
2012-12-27, 10:32 PM
You could always fight for the people. I'd best most of your soldiers come from the downtrodden and oppressed - not many with a cushy life choose to be a soldier.

I would, but the side of the People has only one PC, who just betrayed everyone else who was trying to work for them.

Thelonius
2012-12-28, 03:17 AM
*shrug* They should ask anyway. I'm useful and desperate.

You haven't actually spoken to Markus Heladuit. I don’t say he’ll make a bad ruler, massive superiority complex aside, but I can’t see Wardens liking his military command. For one thing – the plan Wardens proposed about stealthily building up forces – Healduits may be many things, but subtle and sneaky they are not.

And desperate? You are winning the game, as far as I can tell. I expect your power will only grow in the upcoming turns.

Edit: Yes, yes, I know. It wouldn't be a TW game, if Murska didn't complain about how his position is weak.

I'd say we need an official TW game by now - ''Take a shot when...''

Thelonius gathered a coalition.
ArcaneStomper plays as Argentina (mordern games).
There is a faction called Solaris (modern games)
etc.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-28, 03:19 AM
I would, but the side of the People has only one PC, who just betrayed everyone else who was trying to work for them.

For the greater good of the city. Work for the betterment of the city, and we'll have no problem.

Thelonius
2012-12-28, 03:24 AM
And I sort of need NPCs to reply to me, before I can send in my turn...

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-28, 05:17 AM
Thelonius gathered a coalition.
ArcaneStomper plays as Argentina (mordern games).
There is a faction called Solaris (modern games)
etc.

Imperial Psycho is horribly defeated about 12-14 turns in? :smallamused:

Murska
2012-12-28, 07:04 AM
For the greater good of the city. Work for the betterment of the city, and we'll have no problem.

But that's not interesting. I don't care about building up and such, I want to play the game of conflict, politics and war that this one was up until one side defeated the others.

Also, take a shot every time Murska annexes a minor nation.

Thelonius
2012-12-28, 07:36 AM
Because right now we are all one big happy family :smallbiggrin:. I'm pretty confident the politics and conflict stay on the table - heck I expect them to get more vicious. As for fighting, there might be a lull, while the steam builds up, but I think we'll have another war yet.

I fear, if we lost Gears & Orks that would make things a bit more calm, simply due to a lesser number of movers and shakers.

Eldan
2012-12-28, 07:52 AM
I trust in Zemalac to blow it all up, if this new government should come to anything.

Thelonius
2012-12-28, 08:27 AM
There are a lot of GM plots just biding their time. I count 3-4 major ones, I know of, and several minor ones, that I expect can shoot us in the back, at the worst possible time.

Eldan
2012-12-28, 08:37 AM
The worst possible time being the next time you all go to war? I count at least three or four sides in a possible civil war, right now. Just with the people who post often.

Thelonius
2012-12-28, 10:56 AM
It is not the task of a jailor to decide whether or not his prisoners are meant to be in prison

That's sort of the thing Warden Exarn did for a bit of coin in the good ol'days. You wanted man removed, you paid, man got locked up.

Edit: Sigh, I'm hoping Desoui revives, all of the city factions go ''Oh, Crap'' is somewhere on that random events list. That'll be fun.

Murska
2012-12-28, 10:59 AM
That's sort of the thing Warden Exarn did for a bit of coin in the good ol'days. You wanted man removed, you paid, man got locked up.

Edit: Sigh, I'm hoping Desoui revives, all of the city factions go ''Oh, Crap'' is somewhere on that random events list. That'll be fun.

Maybe, but there's no proof or any records of stuff like that happening.

razovor
2012-12-28, 11:09 AM
Edit: Sigh, I'm hoping Desoui revives, all of the city factions go ''Oh, Crap'' is somewhere on that random events list. That'll be fun.

I'm not sure whether I want this happen after, or during, the next Pc vs Pc conflict.

It would certainly be fun though.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2012-12-28, 11:17 AM
Mortally fun.

HerbieRAI
2012-12-28, 12:43 PM
I fear, if we lost Gears & Orks that would make things a bit more calm, simply due to a lesser number of movers and shakers.

We lost the Gears? Aww, and the holy war is almost ready to start. I just have a few more pieces to move before the holy bloodbath starts.

razovor
2012-12-28, 12:46 PM
We lost the Gears? Aww, and the holy war is almost ready to start. I just have a few more pieces to move before the holy bloodbath starts.

Ah yes, your #1 enemy is gone.

I'll be over here, not liking the gods.

*whistles*

Thelonius
2012-12-28, 12:47 PM
I'm pretty sure there are no records of Desoui killing anybody :smallbiggrin:.

(Well ESBA perhaps has some, but they are biased due to that political dispute between them and her. Probably made it all up to destroy the reputation of our benevolent ruler)

Imperial Psycho
2012-12-28, 12:57 PM
I like the Gears. They're pleasant enough.

Eldan
2012-12-28, 12:58 PM
Where are they? Haven't heard anything from Puppy for a while.

ForzaFiori
2012-12-28, 01:51 PM
But that's not interesting. I don't care about building up and such, I want to play the game of conflict, politics and war that this one was up until one side defeated the others.

Also, take a shot every time Murska annexes a minor nation.

What if you annex a major nation? chug?


Maybe, but there's no proof or any records of stuff like that happening.

There's no proof of alot of stuff happening. For some reason, people are loath to record their misdeeds.


I like the Gears. They're pleasant enough.

Me too. I was really happy when their soldiers didn't turn up to my sneak attack - I really had no beef with them, and would have been sad to have to kill their men.

oblivion6
2012-12-28, 02:24 PM
I really had no beef with them, and would have been sad to have to kill their men.
I wouldnt have been. I would gladly destroy them all. They have attacked me twice for stupid reasons.


Edit: Sigh, I'm hoping Desoui revives, all of the city factions go ''Oh, Crap'' is somewhere on that random events list. That'll be fun.

That would be fun. I still want to know who exactly killed her. Probably the Craftsmen assassins guild but somebody hired them. Meralldon, perhaps?