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ragingrage
2013-03-18, 06:14 PM
Leaving the SGA free to destroy the Wardens since without your support they don't the forces to fight alone. And hurting the Wren badly since most of the people doing the actual starving are in Runner's City.

And it's not like you can move the vaults of flesh. If you retreat they go to whoever can take them.

This seems perfectly good to me.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-18, 06:14 PM
Eh, true that I can't take them with me. But I can use them to undermine half the city, then blow them up, retreat to Tregon and leave all of you to kill each other over the city.

It's not as if I need the Wardens or the Wren, really. They just pay me.

Also the Flesh Vaults don't run under half the city. They are currently only under Gilded. And I guess technically Hopers, Resseville, and Stockyards North.

Eldan
2013-03-18, 06:15 PM
Boooyah! Negative Rep!


Also, you say "Lynch mob", I say "Free training".

oblivion6
2013-03-18, 06:18 PM
This seems perfectly good to me.

Agreed. We can deal with the Orks later on, after we eliminate all their potential allies.

Zemalac
2013-03-18, 06:18 PM
Also Zemalac how effective are the flesh vaults now. I mean my forces were the ones caring for them so it's not like anyone else has the expertise to do so. Not only that but all the existing leviathan's and farms were destroyed in the flood, explicitly stated in my EoT, and I never got a chance to rebuild them. So they're basically empty caves at the moment.

I also collapsed all the ones I retained as I was retreating. Well maybe not all, but at least a few.

That's what the ESGE, Wardens and orcs were trying to fix last turn before they got interrupted by new flood waters. At the moment they don't really have much in them--all the permanent infrastructure, the shaped stone and irrigation channels for the underground farms and whatnot, all that is still there, but they're not really producing anything.

Also, for the record, not all of the leviathans and farms were destroyed in the flood. Enough were to make it an issue, and then more were destroyed in the fighting, so the end result is pretty much what you described now.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-18, 06:29 PM
That's what the ESGE, Wardens and orcs were trying to fix last turn before they got interrupted by new flood waters. At the moment they don't really have much in them--all the permanent infrastructure, the shaped stone and irrigation channels for the underground farms and whatnot, all that is still there, but they're not really producing anything.

Also, for the record, not all of the leviathans and farms were destroyed in the flood. Enough were to make it an issue, and then more were destroyed in the fighting, so the end result is pretty much what you described now.

Well the leviathan's were my starting wealth. I burned most of my wealth, but I think if it all possible I would have tried to take any surviving ones with me, especially if they were small enough to be mobile.

I mean I know I didn't specify when I evacuated because I didn't think of it, I did actually think they were all dead at the time, but if I had a choice about which wealth to take with me, and it was an option I know I would have tried to keep them.

And without surviving leviathan's or blood mages to grow new ones I don't think the flesh vaults would be very productive. Sure you could replant the farms, but that was luxury food for the nobles, not enough to feed the city.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-18, 06:34 PM
You're assuming 100% of the people with the expertise were willing to leave the city just because their guild did. That seems like an implausible reality to me, I dunno.

Thelonius
2013-03-18, 06:37 PM
I'm certain many of said experts would want to work with nice Orcs of Tregon.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-18, 06:37 PM
You're assuming 100% of the people with the expertise were willing to leave the city just because their guild did. That seems like an implausible reality to me, I dunno.

Not really my morale is pretty good and the leviathan handlers were the core of the guild. I'm not saying everyone in the guild went with me. In fact I know some didn't, but I picked up a lot of NPCs as I expanded in Gilded, and they were the ones who stayed behind.

Specifically the the Exchange and Ambassador's Guard. But all my blood mages went with me, and all the non magical handlers got killed in the fighting even if some of them had wanted to stay.

Edit: I'm sure there are other blood mages in the city who could piece it together. But they'd have to do it from scratch rather than with the expertise of Sausage Guild shapers in creating creatures to order.

Zemalac
2013-03-19, 09:41 AM
In response to some comments I've received by PM/Skype and seen in the thread, I am making the EBSA and Technists Guild into NPCs this turn. Greystone has already informed me that he's busy with school, and Grimsage seems to have dropped off the map. I will get to responding for them sometime this afternoon, probably.

Eldan
2013-03-19, 09:45 AM
This turn, I will begin my big spy operations: doing charitable acts in the name of the wardens to improve their reputation.

Soon, the worst reputation in the city will be mine, and mine alone!

Murska
2013-03-19, 03:17 PM
Wait, what do you mean I don't have the forces to fight the SGA alone?

Why would you think that? :smallconfused:

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-19, 03:21 PM
Wait, what do you mean I don't have the forces to fight the SGA alone?

Why would you think that? :smallconfused:

Because if you had fought just me alone you would have at best made a draw. Fighting the combined SGA with the Orks you only made a draw and you were the only one to take casualties in that fight.

If the Orks withdraw and no one else helps you then you will eventually be destroyed. It certainly won't be easy but even the Wardens will go down eventually. You probably are the most powerful faction right now, but it is still four vs one.

Not that it will probably be you alone vs. the SGA. And that might well mean that you'll win out in the end. But winning with the help of allies does not correlate to having the resources to do so alone.

Thelonius
2013-03-19, 03:50 PM
Yeah, Wardens troops probably have enough to fight SGA... :smallfrown:

4 vs. 1 we'd certainly win, but it's Orcs, Neposh, Wren and Champions. Perhaps even ESGE, not certain whose side they are on.

razovor
2013-03-19, 04:09 PM
Yeah, Wardens troops probably have enough to fight SGA... :smallfrown:

4 vs. 1 we'd certainly win, but it's Orcs, Neposh, Wren and Champions. Perhaps even ESGE, not certain whose side they are on.

It doesn't seem like you want peace, so I'm not sure why you're complaining.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-19, 04:13 PM
It doesn't seem like you want peace, so I'm not sure why you're complaining.

Because you have not shown any desire for peace on your own part. Working for peace when your opponent simply plans to destroy you just leaves you exposed and vulnerable. See the Sausage Guild.

The Wardens, Champions, and Wren have shown no desire to live and let live. They have aggressively worked towards their own ends for the entire game. The Church might be reasoned with. But the Wardens have pretty much been hostile since the beginning, and that's why the SGA is fighting.

On the other hand the SGA have been willing to be neutral. That's why you targeted us because we weren't making enough waves. So calling the SGA the warmongers here is a bit absurd.

I don't speak for the entire SGA, but I expect that if you just let the SGA and the Wardens fight it out then the SGA would be willing to live with King James. But that doesn't seem to be a very probably outcome.

Murska
2013-03-19, 04:15 PM
Because if you had fought just me alone you would have at best made a draw. Fighting the combined SGA with the Orks you only made a draw and you were the only one to take casualties in that fight.

If the Orks withdraw and no one else helps you then you will eventually be destroyed. It certainly won't be easy but even the Wardens will go down eventually. You probably are the most powerful faction right now, but it is still four vs one.

Not that it will probably be you alone vs. the SGA. And that might well mean that you'll win out in the end. But winning with the help of allies does not correlate to having the resources to do so alone.

But in neither of the cases you cited did I use all of my forces. Not even all of my Military, let alone going all-out with absolutely everything.

I may not be able to win against the rest of the city alone, but I'm confident I can destroy the rest of the city along with myself if need be.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-19, 04:15 PM
Eh. We made pretty much no aggressive plans last turn. We were then attacked for our trouble, so whatever.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-19, 04:20 PM
But in neither of the cases you cited did I use all of my forces. Not even all of my Military, let alone going all-out with absolutely everything.

I may not be able to win against the rest of the city alone, but I'm confident I can destroy the rest of the city along with myself if need be.

And neither did I. I didn't even have half my stats available in that fight.

If I wanted I could have used the rest of my stats to deal a death blow to at least one of you possibly even more than one. But I didn't because that wasn't how my faction worked. Which is pretty indicative of why the Wardens shouldn't be in charge in my opinion.

An attitude of "If I can't have it, then no one can." does not make for a good ruler.


Eh. We made pretty much no aggressive plans last turn. We were then attacked for our trouble, so whatever.

Didn't say you did. But you don't have to actually be attacking every single turn to be aggressively pursuing your own ends. And you had attacked for the two turns previous to that. Specifically you attacked members and allies of the SGA.

Thelonius
2013-03-19, 04:21 PM
IC: It's pretty obvious to Vasari, that Wardens have no desire for peaceful resolution (well, one where we disarm and go into exile at best) and will move to destroy remnants of SGA. King James doesn't have power to make peace.

OOC: I believe the way Murska's playing Wardens, they will move to utterly crush us next turn.

Murska
2013-03-19, 04:30 PM
Well, it's all about the game. Why go for a peaceful resolution when you're a military faction and the aim is to win? Why try and pick who would be the best ruler for the city if your answer isn't 'me'?

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-19, 04:35 PM
Well, it's all about the game. Why go for a peaceful resolution when you're a military faction and the aim is to win? Why try and pick who would be the best ruler for the city if your answer isn't 'me'?

If that's your aim that's your aim. But trying to play the SGA off as the bad guys is just kind of annoying.

Especially when you have -5 rep and the Bloodhaven has 7.

Edit: If becoming the ruler of the city and winning the game is your goal. Then saying that you don't plan to do so IC is just a straight lie.

I suppose it's easy to be honorable when you can define your own honor code.

Thelonius
2013-03-19, 05:01 PM
As a PR junkie, can't really blame Wardens for spinning things their way. Alas, Murska is a formidable power, when it comes to playing the facts and stringing insults. But I am glad for an opportunity to match the swords of my wit with something that feels like a tank. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: I remember Wardens vs. Bloodhaven sparring, over Traitor's Gate. IC Vasari thinks Wardens are damn slippery bastards, twisting the truth as they see fit. Do note, that if you've been paying attention IC, that Vasari is an outrageous liar. :smallbiggrin: Not that he's been caught so far, I believe.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-19, 05:58 PM
Everyone thinks they're on the good side. There is no good side.

Eldan
2013-03-19, 06:03 PM
Good, bad, I'm the orc with the armies.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-03-19, 06:09 PM
I beg your pardon; but I'm pretty sure Wallen was the good side, and I'm trying to be objective about it. Him and the EBSA, maybe.

razovor
2013-03-19, 06:17 PM
I beg your pardon; but I'm pretty sure Wallen was the good side, and I'm trying to be objective about it. Him and the EBSA, maybe.

EBSA was lawful, not good. Lawful to the point of refusing to recognise the Sorceress's laws were immoral, until being ordered to change them by a legitimate government.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-19, 06:19 PM
I beg your pardon; but I'm pretty sure Wallen was the good side, and I'm trying to be objective about it. Him and the EBSA, maybe.

You keep thinking that buddy. :smalltongue:

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-03-19, 06:25 PM
Imperial: I will XD

Razovor: you are right, and yet I can't fully condemn them for that.
Sending them to LN land purely for that act would ignore their work regarding MU, RSA, (Redeye maybe?), and various others.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-19, 06:35 PM
They had absolutely nothing to do with the Redeye hunt.

And really, I don't consider any of those things 'good'. The RSA was fundamentally political, they certainly weren't evil, though they were misled. The MU were more obviously bad people, but I don't know that that means working against them is good.

Edit: I mean, the Wren is one of the ones easier to spin as a bad person, and he slew THE worst person, probably the worst one on the continent. Redeye was a horrible, horrible dude.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-03-19, 06:52 PM
I wasn't involved either; so my memory is sketchy. I thought they had something to do with that.
I'll edit right away.

Working against MU was a good cause, since they were looking to steal much of the City's property.
They succeeded on the Library, but failed in pretty much all other areas.

The RSA wasn't so evil, but they were easily misled into attacking inocents. They were dangerous.


And the Wren is.. Interesting. In an awesomely morally ambiguous sort of way. In a D&D alignment sense, he is probably evil.

But the Wren doesn't really belong in D&D, where everything is black and white. I'd say he is more of a Game of Thrones type of man.
He fights for his beliefs, and is capable of anything for them.

That makes him a bit cold hearted, but not outright evil.

Then again, manipulating RSA into killing inocents wasn't too neutral on my book. He did finish the worst menace on the Continent, but allow me to ask this:
Does fighting evil makes him good?

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-19, 06:56 PM
Interesting definition of innocents you have. The targets were all military in nature. And it was the mercantile Guild, so it was largely mercenary forces. There was a bit of looting, but it wasn't a pillage and burn situation.

The fact that fighting evil doesn't make you good is exactly my argument for saying that fighting the MU doesn't make the EBSA good.

oblivion6
2013-03-19, 06:58 PM
I agree with you here Ragnar. Wallen was certainly the only person I might qualify as good in this city. I think Vasiri COULD be considered good(Chaotic Good but still) but not so much now as at the beginning.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-19, 07:00 PM
I would actually argue that James is basically a good person. He just has a lot of words put in his mouth.

oblivion6
2013-03-19, 07:12 PM
James...good? Those words should never be in the same sentence unless its too say, "James is NOT a good person." or something similiar. Abandoning the people of Gregoria who call him King is good? Supporting the Wardens in their crusade against all things SGA related is good?

razovor
2013-03-19, 07:15 PM
Abandoning the people of Gregoria who call him King is good?

Because the warlords just spontaneously decided to take Gregoria. No-one with say... warlord contacts told them that now would be a good time.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-19, 07:16 PM
The Sausage Guild was pure neutral and I worked hard to keep it that way. Including the alignment shuffling of feeding the poor for free on one hand and extracting the blood magic from the enemies who had the poor luck to fall into my hands.


Because the warlords just spontaneously decided to take Gregoria. No-one with say... warlord contacts told them that now would be a good time.

I honestly do not know if anything fishy went on there, but I do know that the NPCs in this game are not stupid. If they see an opportunity to advance themselves. Like say the entire army leaving Gregoria and staying away, then they'll take it.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-19, 07:17 PM
James...good? Those words should never be in the same sentence unless its too say, "James is NOT a good person." or something similiar. Abandoning the people of Gregoria who call him King is good? Supporting the Wardens in their crusade against all things SGA related is good?

You're also equating the actions of the faction to the actions of the person.

Also, abandoning is a big word. It's been two months. That's not particularly long in military mobilisation terms. And frankly, we'd be going back right now if not for certain attacks.

razovor
2013-03-19, 07:20 PM
I honestly do not know if anything fishy went on there, but I do know that the NPCs in this game are not stupid. If they see an opportunity to advance themselves. Like say the entire army leaving Gregoria and staying away, then they'll take it.

I'm pretty confident the Mercantile Guild has been sabotaging my efforts for months. They've hated King James for half the game, and have potentially the largest espionage force in the city.

oblivion6
2013-03-19, 07:27 PM
I didn't tell them to take Gregoria. Granted a couple questions may have been asked which eventually led to the Warlords getting a couple bright ideas but I didn't suggest anything of the sort.

I will admit that abandoning is the wrong word in this situation but he did take the entire army out of Gregoria to finish his blood feud with Wallen and no move to retake Gregoria has even been hinted at. Thats not to say the people don't deserve their fate for abandoning General Rhodarmer(I am grateful for that!) but the king should atleast try to help.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-20, 03:32 AM
Abandoning General Rhodarmer? If anyone is to blame for the fate of those people, he is a culpable as us. He blew up the castle.

Thelonius
2013-03-20, 03:41 AM
Well, among people responsible for Gregoria's woes, only one has sworn to defend and protect its people - King James. You can't deny, that in that he failed. Just saying having your old kingdom burned and plundered doesn't look good on the job resume for the Sav Altulus Crown.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-20, 05:17 AM
Perhaps, but you know. If you really cared about us helping the people there, you would be letting us go free them, rather than tying us up in a civil war.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-20, 07:38 AM
Perhaps, but you know. If you really cared about us helping the people there, you would be letting us go free them, rather than tying us up in a civil war.

No one is stopping you from leaving.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-03-20, 07:43 AM
Long Post incoming:

- Imperial:
"The targets were military in nature" "A bit of looting, not a pillage & burn situation"

The targets were merchants. Civilians. They were the primary target, and were right behind the mercenaries.
Come on, you can't point to the Trading Hall and call that a "Military target" with a straight face.

They had done nothing at that time to cause people to attack them (RSA even had to come up with a ridiculous speciesism excuse), so yes. They were inocent.

Sure, they were selfish capitalists doing it all for their own good, but they were working to improve the City's economy (Includng Runner's City), many of them had helped the poor, they had helped build the only semblance of government the City had.

From our end of the spectrum, it sure looked like a "pillage & burn" situation.

Also: I repeated the argument conciously. If it's not valid to say that the EBSa is good because of its work against the City's enemies, it's not valid to point out that the Wren took out Redeye.
I see that's the point you were trying to make, so sorry. :smallbiggrin:

To be honest, one of the ways to define someone as good is by looking at the person's actions. So I don't think it's too invalid to point out Redeye and MU in these cases.

For the record, the Wren isn't outright evil in my book (That would be Redeye). But I'm pretty sure he is not good either.

------------------------

When all of this began, James was a good guy. Since then, decissions have been made to counter that.
Sure, he had a lot of things dropped inside his head. But he looked to a plan to take over the City by burning half of it versus a plan that involved longer negotiation and perhaps respecting those who thought different of him, and he tought "Ok, let's go with the first one".

-------------------------

Finally, Vassari looks good. Now that I'm out, I'm going to have to make thel some questions about him :smallbiggrin:

Thelonius
2013-03-20, 08:28 AM
Perhaps, but you know. If you really cared about us helping the people there, you would be letting us go free them, rather than tying us up in a civil war.

Well, following this argument, if you really cared for the people of Sav Altulus and Gregoria, you'd immediately bow down to me as supreme overlord - then I'd send troops to liberate Gregoria and resources to rebuild Sav Altulus. Instead you are remaining sovereign and independent, perpetrating strife and conflict. Why would you do that? Do you not want what's best for the people?

Plus, you expected this turn to be peaceful. Certainly our defense of Gilded came as a surprise. So why are King's troops capturing Tailorway, instead of rushing to aid Gregoria? Why are Wren's agents doing [classified], instead of secretly delivering supplies to refugees and hunting down Warlords who despoiled Gregoria? Let's face it, your factions priorities were pretty much power and wealth, not defense of the people.

Edit: And yes, we don't care much about Gregoria - though bringing refugees to the safety of the city can be deemed a good act. But we didn't swear to protect its people - we aren't rulers of Gregoria, responsible for it's well being. James is.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-20, 09:01 AM
Long Post incoming:

- Imperial:

The targets were merchants. Civilians. They were the primary target, and were right behind the mercenaries.
Come on, you can't point to the Trading Hall and call that a "Military target" with a straight face.

They had done nothing at that time to cause people to attack them (RSA even had to come up with a ridiculous speciesism excuse), so yes. They were inocent.

Sure, they were selfish capitalists doing it all for their own good, but they were working to improve the City's economy (Includng Runner's City), many of them had helped the poor, they had helped build the only semblance of government the City had.

From our end of the spectrum, it sure looked like a "pillage & burn" situation.

:

They were a faction like any other. They had wealth, but they were also well armed. You can't claim to be a civilian merchant with one hand and then build an army with the other. The reason for war was basically political.

My point with the 'pillage and burn' was that we took STUFF, we didn't murder the owners of the stuff. It wasn't a massacre of civilians, it was a attack on mercenaries and a dispossession of merchants.

Also, my hatred and disdain for the council continue. They were never a government, they were never even a semblance of a government. They were at most a power block that barely co-operated.



When all of this began, James was a good guy. Since then, decissions have been made to counter that.
Sure, he had a lot of things dropped inside his head. But he looked to a plan to take over the City by burning half of it versus a plan that involved longer negotiation and perhaps respecting those who thought different of him, and he tought "Ok, let's go with the first one".

-------------------------

You're assuming James was the instigator of that decision. I blame that handsome rogue, the Wren. The Wardens too, in their part.

razovor
2013-03-20, 10:00 AM
We could never have successfully negotiated with the Ram. People have differing opinions, but facts still exist. And King James would say it is a fact that monarchy is a better system of government than democracy.

The three options we had were; to bypass the ram and instate a monarchy anyway, to settle for a mix of monarchy and democracy, and to destroy the ram, then instate a monarchy.

The first option would have gotten us a good form of government, but one constantly distracted by attempts at revolution by the ram. These distractions would have kept the government operating properly, and cost the nation greatly.

The second option would have kept the ram quiet, but left the government weak and inefficient. This was as bad as ignoring the ram, if not worse.

The third option killed a lot of people, but resulted in a stronger nation and government. A small sacrifice for the greater good of the people.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-03-20, 10:18 AM
Can you blame them for being well armed? Seriously, any merchant that can't afford protection in that city is probably already dead or starving.

They were still civilians, with guards.
EDIT: If a thief enters a person's house, and the person kills him in self defense with the gun he held for protection, you can't call the home owner a murderer.
The mercs worked to defend the Merchants.


The "pillage and burn" argument is not valid. You are equating the Wren's intent with what the factions were going to actually do.

Every time in history, in this world or any world, when a mob pillages a village or neighbourhood, inocent people get killed. That's a fact.

The Wren wasn't going to do it himself, probably, but it was going to happen.

Sky is a good example: The Wren and James didn't exactly stop their mercenaries from looting the place. You can't tell me a good deal of burning&killing&other horrible things did not happen.

Maybe the Wren and James didn't intend for the loot to happen. but as commanders of the army, they are responsible. That would be true IC too. Commanders in real-world 17 century were considered responsible for the actions of their men; the Count of Tilly being a good example.


Then again, the sack of the Stacks would probably had been similar; with the Fist, the Wren and the Ram as direct culprits, James as an indirect one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

And you are right, the Council wasn't effective. But how much of that was caused by the subvertive influence of those who wanted the power for themselves alone?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

James wasn't the instigator. Nobody says that.
But James saw what was going to happen, and decided to go that way. It was his choice.

That makes him responsible for the deaths.

The other options weren't so bad. James had leverage to stop the Ram. Sure, the Merchants didn't agree 100% with him, but they wouldn't have gone for democracy.
Neither would have Wallen.

Inside the sistem, the Ram would have been isolated and unable to cause further troubles.

Finally, we get to the bottom of the matter.
Do the ends justify the means used to obtain them? Were there other ways? That's arguable.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-20, 10:23 AM
They were not civilians with guards, they were civilians in possession of an army. Big distinction. More than that, they held an army AND territory, and acted basically like a sovereign power within that territory. It's ludicrous to say that doesn't distinguish them from a guy on the street.


Of course, there was likely some death. Such is life. Saying we did little to stop our men in sky is bizarre though. It was a check rolled, discipline against the panoply of wealth they were presented with. One can blame the Wren and James if you like, but their fault was in not producing better soldiers, not in intent to loot.

By the Wrens philosophy, of course the ends justify the means, and no, there was no other option. Coming to an arrangement when James is just one faction amongst many would never create a stable government. The monarch needs to be supreme for there to be stability. It would have just been another council.

razovor
2013-03-20, 11:14 AM
Inside the system, the Ram would have been isolated and unable to cause further troubles.

This came up In-Character a while back. I don't understand why you think you think the ram won't be a problem.

They'd have around thirty stat points. Every-turn they'd invest thirty stat points into encouraging the populace to demand a democracy. Every-turn we'd have thirty new stat points of peasants protesting in the streets.

We can't just ignore them, or they'd build up, and eventually overthrow the government. So we have to invest our own thirty stat points into countering them.

That means every turn, sixty of the cities stat points will be doing nothing but countering each others efforts. Sixty stat points effectively gone.

How many lives do you think we can save with that many stat points?

Thelonius
2013-03-20, 11:26 AM
Apologies, my previous post sounded rather malicious/extra sarcastic, especially the overlord part, which isn’t what I wanted to express.

Ram also never attacked anybody, except as part of the ruse in RSA business. Most of their actions centred on improving life in the Runner’s City, not fostering revolution. They even sided against Anarchists, who were promoting anarchy. The third option also left Runner’s City destitute and close to chaos.

So, problem with private armies.


Hey Merchants. How about you disarm your Military.

But what about Warlords in the Shattered Lands, who’d plunder our caravans, that, say would be bringing food to the city, or gangs and criminals in the city or other factions like Blackfists and Wardens, who covet our wealth? If we disarm, wouldn’t they kill us?

Why, the King shall protect you! You’ll be compensated for dispersing your guards, by land grants, which you’ll be able to develop for the glory of the nation. By all that’s good and righteous, the soldiers of the crown will be there to defend you against Warlords and bandits!

Well, we are a bit cautious to trust you, but perhaps we can negotiate something for the mutual benefit of Sav Altulus. We are no warriors after all, and if we can keep enough guards to protect our warehouses and whatnots, maybe we can come to an arrangement.

I understand you trepidation, but fear not, for I shall earn your trust and forge a mighty nation on such good foundations. This shall not be a Warlord state built of fear and terror, but one with foundations of honor and trust!


Admittedly, that’s my ideal world situation, but the fact is, that nobody even bothered to tell merchants, that they dislike us having MIL, and inquired if we might be okay with giving it up... Well, it went like –


’’Why are you hitting us?’’
’’You know why.’’
’’No I don’t.’’
’’Now I’m going to hit you extra hard, so you’ll learn!’’




The monarch needs to be supreme for there to be stability. It would have just been another council.

Except it's Wardens you put in charge, not James.

razovor
2013-03-20, 11:56 AM
Except it's Wardens you put in charge, not James.

The Wardens have influence with the king yes, as the Wren has influence with the king, and the King has his own influence.

As it happens, we've agreed on everything for the past...dozen turns. The King hasn't had to demand the Wren or Wardens to do anything.

Officially though, both are subordinate. And while the Wardens currently have more stat points, they're 'honourable'. Regardless of whether or not it's true, the King is confident the Wardens will follow his orders, if it comes to that.

If you want to weaken the Wardens influence, you should really be attacking him, not us.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-20, 12:00 PM
The Wardens have influence with the king yes, as the Wren has influence with the king, and the King has his own influence.

As it happens, we've agreed on everything for the past...dozen turns. The King hasn't had to demand the Wren or Wardens to do anything.

Officially though, both are subordinate. And while the Wardens currently have more stat points, they're 'honourable'. Regardless of whether or not it's true, the King is confident the Wardens will follow his orders, if it comes to that.

If you want to weaken the Wardens influence, you should really be attacking him, not us.

From over here it looks like the Wardens do what ever they want and King James either pretends like it was his idea all along or ignores the suggestion that he isn't in control.

Also if we want to go back to it being a game the Wardens have the most influence and have had the most influence for some time. The Sausage Guild started gaining a rival amount of influence and hey look what happens.

Maybe King James better hope his influence doesn't ever get any higher either.

Also are you saying that if the SGA does only attack the Wardens you'll stay out of it?

razovor
2013-03-20, 12:31 PM
Also are you saying that if the SGA does only attack the Wardens you'll stay out of it?

A bit late for that unfortunately.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-20, 12:32 PM
A bit late for that unfortunately.

I'd say it wasn't. The SGA forces didn't attack you. Only the Orks and the Wardens were involved. So you could just sty out of the fight if you wanted.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-20, 12:43 PM
And then what? We're left with either some peeved allies who we just ignored, or some victorious enemies with old hatreds still strong, and now we just lost our biggest supporter.

Neither of these futures interest me.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-20, 12:47 PM
And then what? We're left with either some peeved allies who we just ignored, or some victorious enemies with old hatreds still strong, and now we just lost our biggest supporter.

Neither of these futures interest me.

I'm just responding to what razovor said.


If you want to weaken the Wardens influence, you should really be attacking him, not us.

The SGA is attacking the Wardens. If you want to get involved to save them then you can't really blame them for attacking you as well.

oblivion6
2013-03-20, 06:23 PM
They were a faction like any other. They had wealth, but they were also well armed. You can't claim to be a civilian merchant with one hand and then build an army with the other. The reason for war was basically political.

Well armed? I haven't had more than 7 MIL this entire game and that was only for a short time. Mostly it has hovered pretty consistently around 3.

And yeah, I feel justified in keeping an army when the Wardens have been harassing me for most of the game. Even before they attacked for the first time those guards were fighting a losing battle in the Shattered Lands. I made a bit of progress against those Warlords who were especially consistent in their targeting of my caravans but still. In no way shape or form were these guards taking hostile action against anyone.

Zemalac
2013-03-20, 06:45 PM
I have been getting a lot of questions about burning stats recently (past couple of turns, really), so I figured I'd clarify the rules for everyone here.

WEL can be burned easily. MIL, ESP and MAG are more difficult to justify "burning," and thus don't give you nearly as much (or any) effect, but with WEL you can just sell your properties to willing investors. You cannot burn MOR or REP. For the purposes of this explanation, I will talk solely about WEL burning here, because I don't expect the others to ever happen.

Burning a point of WEL will, if no other factors are taken into consideration, act as though it were 7 t.WEL during that turn, and then vanish. This is not quite as much as it takes to create a point of p.WEL, so it's not really efficient, but sometimes you just need a fast burst of cash.

HOWEVER: Burning a lot of WEL at once makes investors realize that you are desperate, and start buying more cheaply. This means that, beyond a certain point, you will get gradually diminishing returns. There are certain traits that will change this ratio (Merchant Contacts and the two district traits attached to the Circles come readily to mind) but those are few and far between, and none of them make it so you can just keep spending without an upper limit. None of them even increase it dramatically.

ALSO: In certain circumstance, burning WEL tied to specific forms of income might generate more or less than the usual amount of t.WEL. For example, in the current circumstances, selling WEL tied to food sources would net you more than usual, enough so that you could immediately reinvest in something else and still have some t.WEL left over. Admittedly, doing this has downsides as well (you can't use the WEL you're burning for this that particular turn), but it is possible to play clever little economic games with the system.

EDIT: ALSO ADDENDUM: I should also note that with Gilded in chaos burning WEL has a reduced effect across the board as the people who would be buying your stuff can't access their moneychangers/banks/whatever.

SIDE EFFECTS: If you are burning WEL in a turn, other people taking actions to increase their own WEL may see better rates of return than usual as they act as the investors buying up the assets you are trying to liquidate.

Hopefully that cleared some things up.

ForzaFiori
2013-03-20, 07:35 PM
We could never have successfully negotiated with the Ram. People have differing opinions, but facts still exist. And King James would say it is a fact that monarchy is a better system of government than democracy.

The three options we had were; to bypass the ram and instate a monarchy anyway, to settle for a mix of monarchy and democracy, and to destroy the ram, then instate a monarchy.

The first option would have gotten us a good form of government, but one constantly distracted by attempts at revolution by the ram. These distractions would have kept the government operating properly, and cost the nation greatly.

The second option would have kept the ram quiet, but left the government weak and inefficient. This was as bad as ignoring the ram, if not worse.

The third option killed a lot of people, but resulted in a stronger nation and government. A small sacrifice for the greater good of the people.

I still say that our failure to compromise was on James, not the Ram. I compromised - despite wanting a full democracy, I realized that we'd need to gradually go that way, and even offered to support you if you'd grant SOME form of concession to the the people you rule, but all you would even consider were shams - the Tsars granted more political freedoms just before the revolution than James ever dreamed off. You may wanna keep that in mind, by the way, so that when the revolution comes, I can tell you "I told you so" :smalltongue:

Thelonius
2013-03-21, 02:01 PM
You know, Stonecutter looks like a strong and confident leader. Yeah, there are a few quirks, like despising humans and wanting to kill Mercantile Guild, but maybe those can be worked out... Then again I though Markus Heladuit was a jolly good fellow and leadership material...

Should have tried to resurrect Desoui really, she is the only one who ''got'' Sav Altulus. We have the technology, we can rebuild her!

And by We, I mean I, and by technology, I mean magic so terrible and dark, it will shatter you frikking minds, MUAHAHAHA!

Eldan
2013-03-21, 02:02 PM
There's a simple way to have the orcs on your side. Pay us more than the Wardens pay.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-21, 02:02 PM
You know, Stonecutter looks like a strong and confident leader. Yeah, there are a few quirks, like despising humans and wanting to kill Mercantile Guild, but maybe those can be worked out... Then again I though Markus Heladuit was a jolly good fellow and leadership material...

Should have tried to resurrect Desoui really, she is the only one who ''got'' Sav Altulus. We have the technology magic, we can rebuild her!

I'm still waiting for the game to end and then in the epilogue Desoui reappears shaking her head saying, "See what happens when I leave the city for a few months."

ragingrage
2013-03-21, 02:02 PM
There's a simple way. Pay us more than the Wardens pay.

And how much is this?

Eldan
2013-03-21, 02:04 PM
Currently 1 wealth for 1 military. But there's an "I'm scared of Murska" bonus.

Thelonius
2013-03-21, 02:10 PM
What about - if I kill Murska, I'll be the scariest thing around bonus? :smallbiggrin:

I'm curious, why you sell your services so cheap... Hmm... Frankly it's pretty tempting to hire you away.

Eldan
2013-03-21, 02:16 PM
I was always open to all sides. But if no one is bidding up the price, it stays at that point. I welcome bidding wars, of course.

Thelonius
2013-03-21, 02:40 PM
Well, the fact still remains, that you attacked food caravans, bringing relief to the city, suffering from famine. Only a faction without any principles and sense of decency would hire you, after such stunt. :smalltongue:

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-21, 02:41 PM
Well, the fact still remains, that you attacked food caravans, bringing relief to the city, suffering from famine. Only a faction without any principles and sense of decency would hire you, after such stunt. :smalltongue:

Well I guess the Technist's guilds won't be hiring them then. Still fair game for everyone else.

Eldan
2013-03-21, 02:56 PM
You'll just have to judge what you value more. Your values, or your lives.

Thelonius
2013-03-21, 03:01 PM
The pendulum swings wildly. I don't know what I value more as I wake up each morning. Perhaps once our hopes and dreams are broken, we'll hire you to sweep the victors away, so Orcs of Tregon would reign supreme in the Broken City. :smallwink:

Edit: Wardens reply acknowledged, by the way. We Duel at EoT.

Murska
2013-03-22, 01:11 PM
Are we going to duel via cheating our behinds off via all means imaginable, or are we going to duel through honourable RP? As in, do we use stats other than the VIP?

Thelonius
2013-03-22, 02:00 PM
I believe we both claim to use only VIPs, and cover up the rest with ESP :smallbiggrin:.

Edit: I realize Wren and Wallen did things through honorable RP, but I must note that Wallen died as a result of it, so I think I'll just put stuff in my EoT and we'll see how it goes. Last time I did it, I won over Heladuits, and that certainly didn't set up a butterfly of doom.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-22, 02:29 PM
Well, we decided the results by honourable PM, which made matters simpler.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-03-22, 03:10 PM
We did, I agreed to have Wallen killed. He was going to die anyways, better to allow the Wren to do it than some nameless soldier.

Besides, it gave me the chance of attempting one final act of brilliance :smallbiggrin:

Eldan
2013-03-23, 02:27 PM
Will there be an EoT this weekend?

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-23, 02:29 PM
Next EoT is the 29th.

Zemalac
2013-03-23, 02:46 PM
Will there be an EoT this weekend?

EoT is next weekend. Mainly because I am at PAX right now and can't run anything.

Thelonius
2013-03-23, 02:49 PM
Have fun at PAX! :smallsmile: I hope to visit it someday.

Thelonius
2013-03-25, 08:59 AM
You may take our lives, vile orks! You may take our...

Arhh- oh, my god, he just ripped my arms off! And he's beating me with them! Oh, the humanity! Why couldn't we keep to verbal sparring! :smallbiggrin:

Edit: I'm appreciative of being able to be snooty with somebody. This must be how Heladuit felt every day!

Eldan
2013-03-25, 09:15 AM
And I finally get to write Stonecutter. I have her personality mostly worked out, and I like her, but no one ever wants to talk to her.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-25, 09:15 AM
I have an urge to be the snootiest. I mean come on, Shattered Lands 'Talidor' vs Orc culture? It's like a boxing match between fish.

Eldan
2013-03-25, 09:20 AM
As a biologist, I feel that I should point out that there are some fish I wouldn't twant to take on in a boxing match.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-03-25, 09:21 AM
This must be how Heladuit felt every day!

"When I held that gun in my hand, I felt a surge of power... like God must feel when he's holding a gun."

Eldan
2013-03-25, 09:35 AM
I'm having a Blackfist flashback here, but...



You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything, he's no longer in your power - he's free again.

Thelonius
2013-03-25, 09:57 AM
Well, Bloodhaven actually spent effort to revive Talidorian culture, so the Orks stroke a cord there. And if the comment about fishes was IC, I'd be calling on Wren to show some respect for the city.

Zemalac
2013-03-25, 04:33 PM
Have fun at PAX! :smallsmile: I hope to visit it someday.

You absolutely should. It's a blast every time I go.

Also: I am back at school now, and available to reply to messages. As you may have realized from the massive wall of spoilered text I just dropped in the IC thread.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-25, 04:42 PM
You absolutely should. It's a blast every time I go.

Also: I am back at school now, and available to reply to messages. As you may have realized from the massive wall of spoilered text I just dropped in the IC thread.

I have realized, which is why I just sent you a message. :smalltongue:

Thelonius
2013-03-25, 04:46 PM
Aren't Stockyards North Champions/Wren territory?

oblivion6
2013-03-25, 04:52 PM
I certainly thought so. I own Stockyards Deep, not North. If I do indeed own North then I have been mistaken for most of the game then. :smalltongue:

Zemalac
2013-03-25, 05:54 PM
Aren't Stockyards North Champions/Wren territory?

So they are. I will edit my response from the Drovers.

Thelonius
2013-03-25, 06:31 PM
We are the minor Non-Player Characters.
You won’t find us on the city map or in the player’s plans
There’s Drovers and there’s Restaurants, Blackthorn, Host Watch, Rose Brotherhood,
There’s maybe Yellow Court and Hath
Wardens & ESGE: Nope, we killed them really good.
We…
Are…
The…
Place-filling and forgettable,
Our survival is regrettable
The few remaining minor NPCs of Sav Altulus


Edited Host Watch, but I think Wild Mages don't belong to this list. Plus the rhyming is already atrocious enough without them.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-25, 06:33 PM
Don't forget the Wild Mages!

oblivion6
2013-03-25, 06:33 PM
Don't forget Hosts-Watch in Travelers Quarter.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-03-25, 06:47 PM
House Orthax & Dwimmercant were probably slaughtered as well, but maybe they still live.

Oh, my! Orthax is going to be mad. He was actually against me, but I managed to get him on my boat and sent him away on an indefinite diplomatic mission the first chance I had.

Hilarious. Good times.....

Thelonius
2013-03-25, 06:55 PM
Poor fellow can't even get revenge on Wallen, unless he gets in touch with some good necromancers.

You think Dwimmercant got slaughtered? Heh. Interesting.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-03-25, 07:02 PM
I'm not sure if they did. Never lived enough to find out :smalltongue:

He could still make a Cadaver Synod on Wallen. I'm not looking forward to seeing him end in the bottom of Becombe Lake, but it's still entertaining.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-03-26, 07:34 AM
sorry for double posting; but I edited the following in my last post and people seem to have missed it.


"Guys; I've been thinking of taking over the Technists, since Grim has dissapeared into the void of Real Life.

Zem is fine with the idea, but I wanted to see what you guys think.

The technists are a different faction than the one I had before; and I intend to stay true to their spirit, keeping them the way they have always been (Apolitical, greasy, Slightly crazy blathering technists who enjoys walks in the beach, steam machines, and flying boats).

Despite the discussions we had, I hold no grudges about what happened to House Wallen, and hope that the rest of the group thinks the same on my regard."

HerbieRAI
2013-03-26, 07:45 AM
As who will probably be your biggest adversary I have no problem with it. It would be good to have someone to deamonize. :smallbiggrin:

ForzaFiori
2013-03-26, 08:34 PM
It's always better to have more players and less NPCs, in my opinion, so I don't see any problem with you taking over the Technists.

oblivion6
2013-03-26, 08:40 PM
No complaint here.

Thelonius
2013-03-28, 11:15 AM
I might have mixed up Duel and Trial by Combat - as in perhaps I can't name a champion in a duel. Zemalac - can you please provide a ruling on this?

Edit: Granted this duel is happening because Wardens made a legal accusation against me, so I can claim it to be a Trial By Combat...

Thelonius
2013-03-29, 06:51 AM
Somewhere in Merchant's Water...

Servant: ''M'Lord. News from Sav Altulus. It appears Doctor Vasari was killed on a duel, because he didn't know difference between duel and trial by combat.''

Markus Heladuit: ''Foolish lower classes. [Laughs] Have his bones imported. I'd like to piss on his grave. Well, girls, how about another chocolate bath? Hey, fill up my friend Lascelles with some orphan tears! [Markus raises a jewel-encrusted skull-cup]. I like my chocolate as I like my enemies: bitter.'' [The room erupts in laughter]

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-29, 08:28 AM
Well most duels are to first blood by default. And while pistol wounds are somewhat deadly Dr. Vassari is in charge of the best medical facilities in the city.

Eldan
2013-03-29, 10:02 AM
I like my enemies like I like my dinner. Human.

Thelonius
2013-03-29, 10:14 AM
Heh. Clearly, I like my enemies affably evil. And I mean like-like them. :smallredface:

Not creeeepy. Really not.

Call me after you declare that Orks mix their feces with food they deliver to Sav Altulus just for laughes, you tusky-husky. :smallwink:

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-29, 10:37 AM
Well most duels are to first blood by default. And while pistol wounds are somewhat deadly Dr. Vassari is in charge of the best medical facilities in the city.

Well, generally with a pistol duel, you exchange fire until one side has achieved satisfaction, which is usually after the first wound. More than three exchanges is generally seen as excessive.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-29, 10:40 AM
Well, generally with a pistol duel, you exchange fire until one side has achieved satisfaction, which is usually after the first wound. More than three exchanges is generally seen as excessive.

I don't know if that is from real world duels or if you asked Zemalac previously, but this is what Zemalac said about it when I asked him.


Duels are normally to first blood. To the death is not unheard of, but is rare: the point of a duel is usually to gain satisfaction, or rather, to restore one's honor by showing a willingness to risk one's life for it. Of course, if someone were to die at the first blow, then that's still first blood, and with pistols (as the Wardens have requested) that chance rises dramatically unless the participants are very honorable men (a lot of the time in a pistol duel, when the count ends both parties turn and just shoot into the air--they've shown they are willing to risk their lives for their honor, but neither has to die, and both come out of it appearing merciful).

So according to that most pistol duels don't even result in wounds, although I doubt that will be the case here. In fact it should probably be clearly defined just what counts as satisfaction here.

Thelonius
2013-03-29, 10:50 AM
Well, let's call it either death or after three exchanges we call it quits, since apparently Neposh in the sky clearly doesn't want either of us to die (or we are way too drunk to aim properly).

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-29, 10:51 AM
It says 'a lot' of duels have both sides refusing to fire, but not most. And I doubt either side will be doing that here.

And if there are three exchanges of fire with neither side wounding the other, both sides should feel fairly ridiculous.

Thelonius
2013-03-29, 10:52 AM
Yup, too much bad blood between us. It really needs spilling.

Was there some rule about reducing distance between the duelists after the first shot? To the point one really can't miss?

Murska
2013-03-29, 11:42 AM
Well, I intend to write what Tarmin does in the duel and hopefully you'll do the same with Vassari, and then we'll leave it to Zem to see what happens.

Thelonius
2013-03-29, 11:47 AM
I was thinking we could RP it during weekend - you should be at home at the time and it'll help pass time, before the EoTs are resolved.

Murska
2013-03-29, 11:48 AM
That'd be ok as well, though I suggest RPing it out over IM first and then fluffing the posts better for the thread.

Thelonius
2013-03-29, 12:10 PM
Admittedly, it'll probably be just a bunch of insults, before the shots are fired. A bit more prosaic and down to earth, then the duel between the nobles we had. Our factions never seemed capable of actually talking.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-29, 12:13 PM
My eot will probably be sent tommorrow. I just got assigned a new work project and I need to check my notes which are on another computer as well.

Zemalac
2013-03-29, 01:07 PM
Couple of things:

1) EoTs are due today. Or soon, at least.

2) Since everyone seemed agreeable, Ragnar is going to take over the Technists. Ragnar, I'll be sending you the Technists stats/known plots very soon.

Thelonius
2013-03-29, 01:21 PM
Technist Plots: use Doomsday Device we uncovered in Orn Telengrad (why do you think it's Orn?) to blow up Sav Altulus.

oblivion6
2013-03-29, 01:27 PM
Okay, i'll get my EoT in later today then. Waiting for the results of this turn will have me on the edge of my seat for sure.

Thelonius
2013-03-29, 02:01 PM
[Reads Verdan Contact Message]

Aaaa..... I just love your NPCs Zemalac. Such charming and polite people. Remind me of MU, honestly.

Edit: I actually suspected as much. Just hearing it... Yeah. Nice. Nice.

Zemalac
2013-03-29, 02:05 PM
[Reads Verdan Contact Message]

Aaaa..... I just love your NPCs Zemalac. Such charming and polite people. Remind me of MU, honestly.

Edit: I actually suspected as much. Just hearing it... Yeah. Nice. Nice.

It's just business, Doctor.

Thelonius
2013-03-29, 02:09 PM
And Redeye was just doing some art. Really, why did people got in the way?

Sigh, we are such provincials in the Sav Altulus.

Zemalac
2013-03-29, 02:14 PM
And Redeye was just doing some art. Really, why did people got in the way?

Sigh, we are such provincials in the Sav Altulus.

They are just very used to being able to manipulate things to go their way in the Shattered Lands, and do not yet see Sav Altulas as any different. This is one of the main reasons why the Shattered Lands have stayed the way they are, incidentally--everyone else has a vested interest in them staying shattered.

Thelonius
2013-03-29, 02:19 PM
Well, I'm not certain Sav Altulus is different. In the end it's foreign powers getting their way and us Shatterd Land folks killing each other. 20 Turns of the game, and nothing changed...

oblivion6
2013-03-29, 03:03 PM
Well, if people would stop harassing me and turn over all the gold in the city, then perhaps things would change. Instead we have a band of common bandits(Though better armed and more organized) out for blood and a powerless king sitting on the throne.

I'm curious as to why you're after me, Murska? As I recall I was pursuing an alliance with you at one time. You provided the muscle and me the money. However I suppose that was around the time the damn Council Road sucked up alot of my resources.

Thelonius
2013-03-29, 03:10 PM
I'd say you were the only available expansion venue. Sausage Guild is in the north - and you need five factions to take them out. Laurier was strong as well. You were the weakest target.

I was trying to provide some leadership in the Council, get people working on joint projects, hence the Council Road. Didn't work unfortunately. Still, funny that I thought the city was disunited and chaotic back then. Compared to the current situation it was a model of unity and growth. :smallbiggrin:

oblivion6
2013-03-29, 05:05 PM
EoT sent. Now the waiting and worrying begins.

Murska
2013-03-29, 05:28 PM
At this point I'm mainly fighting you because you're fighting me. The initial offensive was because I was friendly-ish with Sausage Guild, good friends with Laurier (whom I rated as the most powerful faction near me anyway) and you were the only one I could muster even a thin veneer of an IC excuse to aim for.

Plus, of course, you had weak military and lots of money while I had no money and lots of military. Basic Total War maths says the earlier I attack you, the better off I will be and the less likely you'll grow out of control.

oblivion6
2013-03-29, 05:54 PM
Well yeah, I respect you for fighting me now. I understand the reasoning behind that.

Seems to me like you should not have let me survive this long. If you had marched against me alongside the RSA(can't believe we let Wren go) then you could've easilly crushed me and much of the SGA military in one fell swoop. Now you're being forced to waste time crushing us like the pesky insects we are.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-29, 06:07 PM
You wouldn't have been able to stop me from going. In the same way you couldn't stop me coming back.

oblivion6
2013-03-29, 06:15 PM
We had(and still have) considerable espionage assets which could have atleast taken out your own considerable espionage which would have certainly slowed your growth.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-29, 06:48 PM
My EoT is sent.

ForzaFiori
2013-03-29, 06:55 PM
EoT is in.

Murska
2013-03-29, 06:55 PM
Well yeah, I respect you for fighting me now. I understand the reasoning behind that.

Seems to me like you should not have let me survive this long. If you had marched against me alongside the RSA(can't believe we let Wren go) then you could've easilly crushed me and much of the SGA military in one fell swoop. Now you're being forced to waste time crushing us like the pesky insects we are.

Well, I didn't expect you to be so well prepared against the RSA initial attack. My hope was that they'd hit you hard the first round and then you'd spend effort eliminating them during the following couple turns, allowing me to build up in peace. Most of my game has been spent making sure that as many people as possible are busy with each other or some other event so they can't focus on anything actually important.

As for letting you survive, I didn't really have a choice after I swore that oath. Before you broke it, I couldn't act against you in any way.

Eldan
2013-03-29, 06:58 PM
You forgot one thing. The Blackfist was bluffing the entire game. They never really had the strength to take on *anyone*, and were pretty much losing stats all the time in the second half of their run.

Zemalac
2013-03-29, 07:08 PM
You forgot one thing. The Blackfist was bluffing the entire game. They never really had the strength to take on *anyone*, and were pretty much losing stats all the time in the second half of their run.

No one else realized that until all their agents allied themselves with you, was the thing. I still get a chuckle out of how long you had the entire city walking on eggshells around you.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-03-29, 07:11 PM
EoT sent. It's good to be back.

Eldan
2013-03-29, 07:42 PM
No one else realized that until all their agents allied themselves with you, was the thing. I still get a chuckle out of how long you had the entire city walking on eggshells around you.

It was the most fun faction I ever played. Basically a huge experiment in just how far I could push things.

oblivion6
2013-03-29, 08:29 PM
Well, I didn't expect you to be so well prepared against the RSA initial attack. My hope was that they'd hit you hard the first round and then you'd spend effort eliminating them during the following couple turns, allowing me to build up in peace. Most of my game has been spent making sure that as many people as possible are busy with each other or some other event so they can't focus on anything actually important.

As for letting you survive, I didn't really have a choice after I swore that oath. Before you broke it, I couldn't act against you in any way.

Well, it might have worked had we not actually been preparing for an attack by you at the same time.

I didn't break that oath. Atleast not in any way that you can prove. The whole Drydock thing doesn't count after all.

Oh, and Eldan, I liked you better as Blackfists. I only had their ESP to fear and I knew it wasn't likely to all be put against me. Now I have to fear your massive military just marching straight up to the Bridge.

Copper8642
2013-03-29, 10:59 PM
Somewhere in Merchant's Water...

Servant: ''M'Lord. News from Sav Altulus. It appears Doctor Vasari was killed on a duel, because he didn't know difference between duel and trial by combat.''

Markus Heladuit: ''Foolish lower classes. [Laughs] Have his bones imported. I'd like to piss on his grave. Well, girls, how about another chocolate bath? Hey, fill up my friend Lascelles with some orphan tears! [Markus raises a jewel-encrusted skull-cup]. I like my chocolate as I like my enemies: bitter.'' [The room erupts in laughter]

I approve.

Thelonius
2013-03-30, 01:52 AM
Well, I didn't expect you to be so well prepared against the RSA initial attack. My hope was that they'd hit you hard the first round and then you'd spend effort eliminating them during the following couple turns, allowing me to build up in peace. Most of my game has been spent making sure that as many people as possible are busy with each other or some other event so they can't focus on anything actually important.

I think Bloodhand assassination attempt tipped off your hand.

Yeah, I have noted it IC – Wardens were never there against MU, Redeye, RSA and such. And now that the Guilds, who’ve been spending resources to keep the city running, are being wiped out, the whole place is collapsing like a house of cards. When the dust settles, I think only Neposh and ESGE would have resources and will for rebuilding.

I’ve assumed Wardens broke the oath first and as such Mercantile Guild was no longer bound by theirs.

Edit: Granted it's probably IC seeping into OOC. My side's good, the other side's evil, etc, etc.

Murska
2013-03-30, 04:48 AM
I didn't break that oath. Atleast not in any way that you can prove. The whole Drydock thing doesn't count after all.


Why would it not count? It's pretty clearly interfering in my business. Especially combined with the fact that while IC I can't prove your and Bloodhaven attacks on me, I still know of them IC and know them to be your doing, which predisposes my IC leadership towards dealing with the Drydocks thing as a serious breach of truce instead of something that might be solved by further negotiations.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-30, 05:45 AM
I suggest not pumping All Gods, if you don't mind. We're building a new street level over the top, and I'd rather not have a massive pit in the middle of the neighbourhood. :smalltongue:

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-03-30, 07:24 AM
It was only an idea.

Do you want to buy some water cannons? Some Gear's leftover equipment to prepare an electrified perimeter? You could have quite a bit of fun with a flooded neighbourhood, you know.

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-30, 11:43 AM
If anyone brings up electricity in the city again they'll probably get instantly lynched.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-30, 11:47 AM
Because it's clearly the Celestial Networks fault, not Heladuits or the people who attacked the Gears. :smallamused:

ArcaneStomper
2013-03-30, 12:06 PM
Because it's clearly the Celestial Networks fault, not Heladuits or the people who attacked the Gears. :smallamused:

Well it is the Gears outright admitted that their network was completely unstable and ready to blow if interfered with even slightly.

Given what happened last time no one is going to tolerate someone setting up a ticking bomb in the neighborhood and then saying, "Oh well if no one messes with it or even speaks loudly within the neighborhood it will be fine." A bombs a bomb. No matter who sets it off it doesn't change the fact that the first person set up the bomb in the first place.

Eldan
2013-03-30, 12:07 PM
You shouldn't use electricity. Use the Technists' Guild's newest invention... Olectrucity!

Thelonius
2013-03-30, 01:21 PM
Olectrucity? Now you don't think that we are dumb enough...

[A pile of gold coins appears on the table]

Well, considering the similarity between the electricity and olectrucity, the harmful effects of...

[The pile grows larger]

...electricity are not present in the olectrucity, though I must note, that...

[You can barely see Vasari behind the mount of gold]

It makes your hair all shiny and boosts male potency, without any danger of it blowing up.

[No - I'm not installing it anywhere near my clinics. Can't afford it unfortunately.]

Yeah, Neposh will murder anybody dead, if they try Celestial Netowork. Underground thermal power plants is a safer bet, though they will probably wake up the lovcraftian deity, slumbering below Sav Altulus.

oblivion6
2013-03-30, 01:48 PM
Why would it not count? It's pretty clearly interfering in my business. Especially combined with the fact that while IC I can't prove your and Bloodhaven attacks on me, I still know of them IC and know them to be your doing, which predisposes my IC leadership towards dealing with the Drydocks thing as a serious breach of truce instead of something that might be solved by further negotiations.

Well, be that as it may, you broke the truce as well. You're telling me you had nothing to do with the army of Lions knocking on my door? That smells suspiciously of Wardens and the Imperial Chancery.

Murska
2013-03-30, 03:21 PM
Well, be that as it may, you broke the truce as well. You're telling me you had nothing to do with the army of Lions knocking on my door? That smells suspiciously of Wardens and the Imperial Chancery.

Had nothing to do with me. Several past EoTs had noted how the Lions were angry at Neposh for desecrating the Imperial Mother Church shrines.

Thelonius
2013-03-30, 04:05 PM
Heh. I believe Neposh was saying, Wardens should be guarding Traitor's Gate, since Mercantile Guild couldn't keep the Lions out.

oblivion6
2013-03-30, 05:14 PM
Absolutely correct, I couldn't keep them out on that particular turn, even with Laurier guardsmen. However, Wardens would have made no attempt to keep 'em out more than likely.

Murska
2013-03-30, 05:15 PM
Why would I fight people who have nothing to do with me and threaten me in no way?

oblivion6
2013-03-30, 05:21 PM
Because, as owner of Traitors Bridge, it's your responsibility to keep foreign armies out of Sav Altulas. Say an entire legion from the Illaryum Empire came marching up to the gate. I'm betting you would let them in without question, simply because they're no threat to you since you're obviously allies. Then of course I would laugh when they betray you like they betrayed everyone else.

Thelonius
2013-03-30, 05:52 PM
Eh, I don't think Illaruym would betray Wardens, only if it was profitable for them and I don't think it would be. They fit together rather well.

I admire Wardens pragmatism, which has made them the strongest faction in the game. I think we talked with Murska on Pragmatism vs. Idealism. My faction certainly moved from my old position, and based on information I have, Wardens have changed as well.

Also, I find it interesting, that if we look at this fight as Wardes & Allies vs. Vassari & Allies (apologies, if I sound self-important here. I think if I haven't started talking about fighting Wardens, Mercantile Guild would have), then Warden's allies follow them out of fear - if Wardens lose, then they'll fall with them, if Wardens win and their allies didn't support them, they'll be punished. And Vasari's allies follow him more out of respect and generally liking him. Which fits our REP stats.

Murska
2013-03-30, 05:58 PM
Because, as owner of Traitors Bridge, it's your responsibility to keep foreign armies out of Sav Altulas. Say an entire legion from the Illaryum Empire came marching up to the gate. I'm betting you would let them in without question, simply because they're no threat to you since you're obviously allies. Then of course I would laugh when they betray you like they betrayed everyone else.

Oh, but it just so happened that I gave /you/ temporarily the responsibility to protect the Bridge for that turn.

Thelonius
2013-03-30, 06:13 PM
I believe it was permanent transfer actually.

Murska
2013-03-30, 06:48 PM
Nah, I told him my troops would be out for the month and asked him to keep watch on the bridge for that while.

oblivion6
2013-03-30, 07:32 PM
Murska is right on the money in this case. Though I can see why he turned over the Bridge to me on that particular turn.

Thel, I think the Empire would eventually betray the Wardens like they betray everyone else. Look at what they did to the Traitors Legion just to keep a small province in line.

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-31, 04:04 AM
The Wardens allies, or at least as far as the King and I go, don't ally with him out of fear of punishment.

Thelonius
2013-03-31, 04:47 AM
Yeah, I admit I went too far with negative REP analogy there.

Illaryum would throw Wardens to the wolves, the second it means benefit for the Empire, but for that to happen the Wardens value must fall below costs and I don't see that happening.

ForzaFiori
2013-03-31, 12:40 PM
The Wardens allies, or at least as far as the King and I go, don't ally with him out of fear of punishment.

I'm with the Wardens out of fear of annihilation, not punishment. Does that count?

Imperial Psycho
2013-03-31, 01:16 PM
Well, I did say the King and me in particular. :smalltongue: You're more of a vassal of sorts.

Zemalac
2013-03-31, 03:44 PM
Just as a warning, running this turn is probably going to take a little longer than usual. I was anticipating that it would be pretty short, like last turn was, but then I spent all of today working on a coding project that I had thought would only take me a couple hours. Unless some of my other work goes faster than I expect, at this point the earliest that I might be able to finish running the turn is Thursday.

Zemalac
2013-04-03, 03:10 PM
There were four different rolls this turn that should have been easily taken by one side or the other, but were instead either draws or very, very close. I think the dice are ****ing with me.

Next EoT is due Friday, April 12.

EDIT: Turns out one of those rolls wasn't so close after all. I forgot a point of MIL, a VIP and a major combat trait in the fight between the Turnaround and Gateway Milanus that completely changed the result of that action. IC post and OOC OP have been edited to reflect the new result, and everyone involved has been PM'd.

Edit 2: Duel fluff piece is now up in the IC thread.

Thelonius
2013-04-04, 03:12 AM
Hmmm, Orkish Duke. I'm certain the nobles of Sav Altulus are most tolerant and enlightened sort, so they wouldn't mind to accept Orkish peers. I mean after everything that Tregon Orks done for Sav Altulus they deserve to gain high titles and lands. :smalltongue:

Edit: I really don't get it - why are you hanging out with Tregon, it's a political suicide!

Eldan
2013-04-04, 03:45 AM
Hmmm, Orkish Duke. I'm certain the nobles of Sav Altulus are most tolerant and enlightened sort, so they wouldn't mind to accept Orkish peers. I mean after everything that Tregon Orks done for Sav Altulus they deserve to gain high titles and lands. :smalltongue:

Hey, we had to prove that we fit in properly with the rest of them.

ForzaFiori
2013-04-04, 09:03 AM
Hey, we had to prove that we fit in properly with the rest of them.

Yea, but usually it's down by YOU adapting your ways, not by killing off the peerage so there's no one to not fit in with. :smalltongue:

Zemalac
2013-04-04, 09:37 AM
Just going to post this here instead of sending out another round of PMs...I just had another thing I forgot to take into account for the fight between the Turnaround and Gateway Milanus pointed out to me. Specifically, the 3 MIL of the Gatekeeper's Guard in Gateway Milanus, who work for the Wardens. Their contribution is not enough to turn the flow of the battle, but they do prevent a point of casualties for the Wardens.

Hopefully that is the last thing about that fight that I'll need to change after the fact.

Murska
2013-04-04, 10:07 AM
Hahahah. I love it when I perfectly outguess and outplay my opposition.

I was attacked by 53 points of Mil, 12 Mor, 19 Mag, 18+?? Esp, 2 Wel plus a TON more of it to buy all those Mercs, 6 Rep, 8 Inf and 8 VIPs last turn. I lost 1 Mil and 1 Rep.

oblivion6
2013-04-04, 04:37 PM
Yeah, we should've all just struck from Stacks instead of Gilded and Stacks at the same time. We miscalculated right there. I was really hoping for the mercs morale to hold longer and inflict more casualties on you.

Congratulations to the Wren and James. I didn't expect such a massive attack from you. I am really glad I launched that preemptive strike on Spicers though.

oblivion6
2013-04-04, 10:34 PM
I think we'll need both a new IC and OOC pretty soon..

Zemalac
2013-04-08, 12:13 AM
Sorry about not posting in the thread or responding to PMs over the past couple days--I've been kind of sick. Fortunately, I'm better now, except for a cough that refuses to go away, so I'm going to try and catch up between tonight and tomorrow.

EDIT: Important Note About Contacts

I realized, last turn, that I had been letting people talk to their Contacts without using VIPs, despite the fact that this is explicitly not allowed in the rules as presented in the OP. I let it slide last turn because I had forgotten to enforce it for another player the turn before and figured turnabout was fair play, with the thought that I would start enforcing it again once turn 21 rolled around. Which it now has.

As such, I would like to remind everyone that talking to people with Contacts traits by PM still requires a VIP. The only thing the Contacts trait does for you is remove the usual message travel time for out-of-city factions. Sorry for the confusion, but this is the fairest means of fixing my forgetfulness that I can think of, for reasons that I can't really explain because they involve PM actions.

oblivion6
2013-04-08, 09:17 PM
Hey Zem, did you get the questions I PM'ed you a few days ago?

Zemalac
2013-04-08, 09:19 PM
Hey Zem, did you get the questions I PM'ed you a few days ago?

So I did! Must have missed those.

I think I owe you replies to a couple PMs at this point.

ArcaneStomper
2013-04-11, 05:38 PM
Zemalac I would really like an answer to that first PM I sent. It will probably change one of my actions.

oblivion6
2013-04-11, 10:10 PM
Hey, Zem: You can probably disregard the majority of the WEL portion of the EoT I just sent you. Probably need to make some changes...

Zemalac
2013-04-12, 12:33 PM
Just as a reminder, EoTs are due today.

ArcaneStomper
2013-04-12, 12:58 PM
My EoT is in.

oblivion6
2013-04-12, 04:32 PM
Mine should be in within an hour or two hopefully.

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-04-12, 04:49 PM
Mine has been sent.

ForzaFiori
2013-04-12, 05:58 PM
My EoT is in too. It's really easy to write them up when you barely have any stats. :smalltongue:

ragingrage
2013-04-12, 07:33 PM
EoT will be in very soon, sorry.

Zemalac
2013-04-14, 11:33 PM
Three things.

1) EoTs are back, fast this time. Hooray!

2) There is a new IC thread, which may be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280347).

3) Next EoT is due Friday the 26th.

ragingrage
2013-04-14, 11:43 PM
The above link is wrong, by the way, it takes you to Book 2.

Zemalac
2013-04-15, 12:14 AM
The above link is wrong, by the way, it takes you to Book 2.

Fixed. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Nyrt
2013-04-17, 06:27 AM
Holy crap, I just looked at the map. Feeling a bit outnumbered here.

razovor
2013-04-17, 07:19 AM
Holy crap, I just looked at the map. Feeling a bit outnumbered here.

I can't really give you more territory, but we can shuffle things around if you want. Your territories in Blacksage for mine in Sky. Would give you complete control of Sky.

Imperial Psycho
2013-04-17, 07:58 AM
Holy crap, I just looked at the map. Feeling a bit outnumbered here.

Outnumbered? By whom? :smallconfused:

HerbieRAI
2013-04-17, 09:01 AM
Just ignore the faction almost splitting the city in half. :smallbiggrin:

I am offering you a bit of land right now. I don't want to be in Blacksage.

ragingrage
2013-04-17, 12:42 PM
I would be very comfortable with James trading with ESGE to give them Sky.

Nyrt
2013-04-17, 02:26 PM
Problem with that is the university. I'd like to keep that.

Imperial Psycho
2013-04-17, 02:42 PM
You can always retain control of the university, without keeping the surrounding campus.

The whole point of the deal is to organise the city such that we can get complete sets of territories, to maximise stat caps and bonuses.

Nyrt
2013-04-17, 02:42 PM
I think I've got a solution IC.

ArcaneStomper
2013-04-17, 02:43 PM
I think I've got a solution IC.

Well unless Bloodhaven objects to that solution of course.

Imperial Psycho
2013-04-17, 02:49 PM
Alternatively, you could just give the Champs the rest of Sky, and go hang in University land. :smalltongue:

ArcaneStomper
2013-04-17, 02:51 PM
Alternatively, you could just give the Champs the rest of Sky, and go hang in University land. :smalltongue:

Which would be the better deal actually. Otherwise the Champions are getting a two for one deal on their territory and all that work in the university would solely go towards getting the Champions new territory.

HerbieRAI
2013-04-17, 03:02 PM
The church is alright with the plan, but I'll let Bloodhaven respond first. The origonal trade left you in majority control (your 40% to Bloodhavens 22% and the Churches 29%)

ArcaneStomper
2013-04-17, 03:13 PM
The church is alright with the plan, but I'll let Bloodhaven respond first. The origonal trade left you in majority control (your 40% to Bloodhavens 22% and the Churches 29%)

Ah see the problem here is that Bloodhaven wasn't actually included in that message, which makes it all a bit shady. The only reason I'm talking about it here is that I'm reasonably sure Bloodhaven has enough espionage to be aware of it anyway. And I have some message sharing contracts which are still going and allow me to read it.


If I thought one of the involved factions didn't actually know about it IC I'd keep quiet in the OOC.

razovor
2013-04-17, 05:39 PM
Which would be the better deal actually. Otherwise the Champions are getting a two for one deal on their territory and all that work in the university would solely go towards getting the Champions new territory.

Yeah. Though I am biased. If the ESGE think keeping their original headquarters is worth it, I don't mind.

Thelonius
2013-04-17, 06:10 PM
Well, seeing how Lord Founder once claimed that University will stay out of politics and purging my influence is clearly a political move, plus the fact, that after ESGE, I put more resources into rebuilding Daimot then all other factions combined and now I'm getting kicked out, I'd say Bloodhaven will see the matter as vile betrayal and take it rather personally.

Then again, it's not like I can stand up to ESGE's massive firepower, so I guess they can do as they please. I'm not certain if it'll take 35 stat points to shift my influence or less, but ESGE can clearly afford it.

Nyrt
2013-04-17, 07:27 PM
I hope nobody minds if I try to get my thought process down here? This is the most complicated problem I've had to deal with in this game to date, believe it or not, and I'm having trouble keeping facts together. I'll try to keep it all OOC stuff.

The problem I have is I seem to be stuck between two or three powerful factions that I don't want to upset. I like Bloodhaven, but it seemed that they had fallen out of favor. I was assuming they were still in the sights of the monarchists when I proposed the deal; realizing that the issue seems to have been resolved, I'm likely not actually going to go through with the plan.

I was under the assumption that the monarchists were just using the Redeye impersonators as an excuse to go after Bloodhaven, and they would continue to pursue them even if it was revealed they were not involved. It looks like it's more complicated than that (isn't it always) and so I'm going to have to try to work something else out.

The thing about having Sky is it gets me not only Realpolitik (which is really useful for me) and whatever district trait Sky has (which would quite likely complement Realpolitik nicely), but it's where the nobles homes are. Lord Founder and friends wouldn't want to move out of their ancestral homes and live in a university, however fancy. In fact, I'd been working to take the rest of Sky for some time when the Champions and the Wren burst in on Wallen, which, while conveniently removing a rival, effectively locked me out of that territory.

That's the only reason I was looking at taking Blacksgage at all- it's the only direction I could go. Once I was locked in by allies, the University (and the Opera House, and the Art Gallery) were the only ways to up my stats without backstabbing my various allies. I honestly don't care about Blacksgage, but there is no way I will give up my influence over the university (sorry Neposh). Shifting Bloodhaven's influence to Neposh would have been the best way to shuffle the territory around and would satisfy two out of three of the factions bordering me.

In light of this, I'm probably going to

retain control of the university, without keeping the surrounding campus.

Imperial Psycho
2013-04-18, 03:38 AM
If you did the territory switch with the Champs, wouldn't it make sense for Neposh to then negotiate with the Champs about their Blacksgage territories, since he's trying to get a whole district?

Thelonius
2013-04-18, 03:40 AM
That sounds like a reasonable suggestion, that allows you to sidestep most of the problems. The only thing is whether it will take Opera House & Arts out of your control.

Eldan
2013-04-18, 05:24 PM
I'm so glad that I have Deerblood to channel all my Blackfistness* into.

*Blackfistosity? Blackfisting? Blackfistesse? Blackfistation? Blackfistality? Blackfistiatrics?

ArcaneStomper
2013-04-18, 05:29 PM
I note that Deerblood neglected to take Bloodhand up on his offer of single combat in an honorable fashion.

And the Wardens didn't go for letting Vassari substitute Bloodhand either.

Why does no one want to play with him. All he wants is a proper fight with a good opponent. Just because he's giant combat demi god shouldn't put people off so much.

Imperial Psycho
2013-04-18, 05:31 PM
Eh, I'd probably be up for the Wren fighting him, but A) He has things to do, and B) He hasn't been feeling quite right since the last duel he did.

He does, however, have a whole PANOPLY of new toys that would even the playing field somewhat. :smalltongue:

Ragnar Lodbroke
2013-04-18, 05:32 PM
Blackfistality. Definitely.


Blackfisting ROFL

ArcaneStomper
2013-04-18, 05:33 PM
Eh, I'd probably be up for the Wren fighting him, but A) He has things to do, and B) He hasn't been feeling quite right since the last duel he did.

He does, however, have a whole PANOPLY of new toys that would even the playing field somewhat. :smalltongue:

So does Bloodhand. :smalltongue:

I have to do something with my mages now that I'm not feeding the city.

Eldan
2013-04-18, 05:38 PM
I note that Deerblood neglected to take Bloodhand up on his offer of single combat in an honorable fashion.

Curses, you spotted my clever feint! :smalltongue:

OOC, I seem to remember that Bloodhand was called the strongest VIP in the game a while back. No way I'm fighting that in a duel.

IC, who ever said orcs were honourable? Especially if it doesn't suit them? Especially Deerblood?

oblivion6
2013-04-18, 05:45 PM
He does, however, have a whole PANOPLY of new toys that would even the playing field somewhat. :smalltongue:

You're referring to Operators Equipment III? Those are indeed some nice toys.

Murska
2013-04-18, 11:24 PM
I could win that duel if need be.

oblivion6
2013-04-18, 11:34 PM
Yeah, by cheating? I don't think anyone in Sav Altulas can fairly best Bloodhand.

Imperial Psycho
2013-04-19, 01:04 AM
I reckon the Wren could, in the right circumstances. I don't consider my fun toys unfair. :smalltongue: Not when he is freaking Mecha-Bloodhand. :smallbiggrin:

ArcaneStomper
2013-04-19, 08:26 AM
I reckon the Wren could, in the right circumstances. I don't consider my fun toys unfair. :smalltongue: Not when he is freaking Mecha-Bloodhand. :smallbiggrin:

I consider traits personal to the VIP fair game as Bloodhand also has quite a few personal traits.

However using faction wide traits isn't because then I'd use my faction wide traits. Then stats would be pulled in, and then it's not really a duel anymore.

And if you think it's unfair that Bloodhand has more personal traits, aka mecha Bloodhand, well there is nothing stopping you from spending as much to upgrade your own VIPs as I did on Bloodhand.

Murska
2013-04-19, 08:29 AM
I don't need to cheat. I could beat Bloodhand in a legitimate duel, no tricks. With pistols preferrably.

oblivion6
2013-04-19, 09:01 AM
And Orks are still foolhardy enough to make threats. Good luck to them, they'll need it.

Imperial Psycho
2013-04-19, 10:31 AM
I consider traits personal to the VIP fair game as Bloodhand also has quite a few personal traits.

However using faction wide traits isn't because then I'd use my faction wide traits. Then stats would be pulled in, and then it's not really a duel anymore.

And if you think it's unfair that Bloodhand has more personal traits, aka mecha Bloodhand, well there is nothing stopping you from spending as much to upgrade your own VIPs as I did on Bloodhand.

I don't know that using fire-proof armour weaves, null bombs, etc, really merits the inclusion of faction stats. :P

Zemalac
2013-04-29, 12:02 AM
And we're back.

Due to the forum outage, I'm moving the EoT deadline from last Friday to this upcoming Friday, May 3rd.

oblivion6
2013-04-29, 12:20 AM
Finally back. It was up momentarilly a few days ago too, but went back down just as I updated my own game. Hopefully it stays up this time.

Zemalac
2013-04-30, 12:13 PM
Forza: The Gear's Chosen are no longer a faction that exists. I think you may have meant to address that message to the Technists Guild.

ForzaFiori
2013-04-30, 12:32 PM
Yes I did. I'll edit that.

Eldan
2013-05-01, 01:42 PM
So, what happens to the Technists now? I really need them for my ingame plans, and already sent them a lot of resources. If they go, they take everything I had planned for the next three or four turns with them.

Zemalac
2013-05-01, 02:27 PM
So, what happens to the Technists now? I really need them for my ingame plans, and already sent them a lot of resources. If they go, they take everything I had planned for the next three or four turns with them.

The Technists become an NPC again, unfortunately. I'll try to stick to what I understand Ragnar's plans were.

Zemalac
2013-05-03, 10:03 AM
Reminding everyone that EoTs are due today.

Murska
2013-05-03, 11:02 AM
Also, that we need a new OOC.

Zemalac
2013-05-03, 04:46 PM
Also, that we need a new OOC.

So we do. And here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282044) it is!