1st-4th level Must Have spells for Wizard

[Crake]

Ok, so for about the first time in my current campaign, I've gotten almost unrestricted access to any spell up to 5th. I'm currently incapable of 5th level spells, so lets stick with 4th level and below. We're running a core spells only game, so nothing outside of the players handbook and my banned schools are necromancy and enchantment (I'm planning on retraining into a generalist wizard down the track though, so feel free to throw in some of those spells that I will definitely not have, but they aren't a high priority for me right now). I have the following spells:

All non necro/enchantment 0th level spells
1st:
Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Protection from XYZ, Shield, Enlarge person, Feather Fall, Grease, Mount, Identify, Expeditious Retreat, Alarm, Burning Hands, True Strike, Nystul's Magic Aura, Disguise Self
2nd:
Invisibility, Fox's Cunning, Scorching Ray, Web, Resist Energy, Mirror Image, Rope Trick, See Invisibility, Knock, Glitterdust, Acid Arrow, Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength, Bears Endurance, Alter Self, Spider Climb, Levitate
3rd:
Fly, Fireball, Dispel Magic, Slow, Tiny Hut, Magic Circle vs XYZ, Blink, Stinking Cloud, Explosive Runes, Lightning Bolt, Summon Monster III, Shrink Item, Secret Page, Arcane Sight, Phantom Steed
4th:
Evard's Black Tentacles, Arcane Eye, Scrying, Wall of Fire, Polymorph, Dimension Door, Stoneskin, Dimensional Anchor, Phantasmal Killer, Greater Invisibility, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability

The only limit that has been placed on me is spells with a name before them. I know for a fact that Otiluke doesn't want me going through his spells, so none of his spells. Any of the others I'll have to ask next session. If it matters at all, I'm a Conjurer, but as I said, I'm planning on retraining that soon.
I have 8175gp left to spend, prices, including scribing materials, are costing me:
125gp for 1st level spells
350 for 2nd
675 for 3rd and
1100 for 4th

Edit: Forgot I had phantom steed too.

[Morbis Meh]

Well you have slow but don't have haste (which imo is the better of the two spells) and the distinct lack of Solid Fog is unsetteling that is one of the best conjuration crowd control spells since there is no save. Too bad you can't use other spells... the orb line of spells is much better for blasting and they're conjuration to boot!

[killem2]

Color Spray is pretty awesome, as is Benign Transposition.

[Crake]

Well you have slow but don't have haste (which imo is the better of the two spells) and the distinct lack of Solid Fog is unsetteling that is one of the best conjuration crowd control spells since there is no save. Too bad you can't use other spells... the orb line of spells is much better for blasting and they're conjuration to boot!

Yeah, I went with Evard's when I hit level 7 for crowd control so we could at least see our enemies. All the 4th level spells I have right now aside from Evard's and Arcane eye were literally obtained at the very end of the session while I was gleefully writing in spells into my spellbook. I'm technically still there, so I can add any more spells I can afford, but I figured, since I'll still be a conjurer next level, I may as well leave SOMETHING good to get for my required conjuration spell, so I settled on solid fog for that.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

The only limit that has been placed on me is spells with a name before them.

Evard's Black Tentacles

Sorry, but as per your restriction, I believe that this one is out.

The best spells for a Wizard to have are directly effected by his party. I mean if you already have a Cleric, why should you spend your spell slots on spells like Bull's Strength when that same slot could be used as a glitterdust or invisibility?

Haste should be in your third level spells unless you don't have any martial combatants.

Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Acid Arrow and all the other damage dealing spells would (in my opinion) be better served as other spells (explosive runes gets a pass though, you can get very creative with the application). The martial characters (again, if you have them) can deal damage, why should you waste your spells doing the same (even though you can do it better)?

Also, unless you have someone who benefits from Sneak Attack or some other form of bonus damage vs dex-denied, Greater Invisibility is worse for YOU. It has a shorter duration (x/rounds instead of x/minutes) and you shouldn't be attacking anyway so you shouldn't need to 'upgrade' in the first place.

[dextercorvia]

The only limit that has been placed on me is spells with a name before them. I know for a fact that Otiluke doesn't want me going through his spells, so none of his spells. Any of the others I'll have to ask next session.

Leomund called. He wants his Tiny Hut back.

Other than that: Silent Image, Wind Wall, Major Image, Haste, Stone Shape, and Enervation.

[dextercorvia]

Also, unless you have someone who benefits from Sneak Attack or some other form of bonus damage vs dex-denied, Greater Invisibility is worse for YOU. It has a shorter duration (x/rounds instead of x/minutes) and you shouldn't be attacking anyway so you shouldn't need to 'upgrade' in the first place.

Not so sure about this. Unless you can completely avoid casting any spells at your opponents...

[Crake]

Sorry, but as per your restriction, I believe that this one is out.

The best spells for a Wizard to have are directly effected by his party. I mean if you already have a Cleric, why should you spend your spell slots on spells like Bull's Strength when that same slot could be used as a glitterdust or invisibility?

Haste should be in your third level spells unless you don't have any martial combatants.

Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Acid Arrow and all the other damage dealing spells would (in my opinion) be better served as other spells (explosive runes gets a pass though, you can get very creative with the application). The martial characters (again, if you have them) can deal damage, why should you waste your spells doing the same (even though you can do it better)?

Also, unless you have someone who benefits from Sneak Attack or some other form of bonus damage vs dex-denied, Greater Invisibility is worse for YOU. It has a shorter duration (x/rounds instead of x/minutes) and you shouldn't be attacking anyway so you shouldn't need to 'upgrade' in the first place.


Leomund called. He wants his Tiny Hut back.

Other than that: Silent Image, Wind Wall, Major Image, Haste, Stone Shape, and Enervation.

These spells are one's I found either in scroll shops around, where their access wasn't restricted, or from personal research (aka, levelup) in which case, they're ruled as not actually being their spell, as much as a reverse engineered personal version of that particular spell.

The place I'm at now currently restricts access to any spells I get from this particular place.

As for greater invis, we do happen to have a rogue who I had in mind for that, My damaging spells are mostly just legacy to fuel my reserve feat fiery burst, with a bit of energy specific damage incase we fight something that is weak to certain types of damage.

We do have *A* martial character, a paladin, but hes decked out in some pretty sweet assed gear, so his damage output isn't TOO bad. That said, sometimes his damage output is too slow, and the cleric (or sometimes clerics, if our second cleric actually shows up) cant keep him alive. I like to keep a scorching ray or two handy for sweet 8d6 damage over 2 ranged touch rolls.

As for my buffing spells, those are actually for Item creation, as I'm the party item crafter. The DM lets other party members spend their XP when I'm making them stuff, but I still need the spells.

Haste I overlooked before since it only gives you a movement speed boost and an extra attack, but now that I have money to spare, I don't see why I should omit it from my collection.

So with haste, my money pool is down to 7500

[dextercorvia]

Haste I overlooked before since it only gives you a movement speed boost and an extra attack, but now that I have money to spare, I don't see why I should omit it from my collection.

So with haste, my money pool is down to 7500

The following is what haste is for.



We do have *A* martial character, a paladin, but hes decked out in some pretty sweet assed gear, so his damage output isn't TOO bad. That said, sometimes his damage output is too slow, and the cleric (or sometimes clerics, if our second cleric actually shows up) cant keep him alive. I like to keep a scorching ray or two handy for sweet 8d6 damage over 2 ranged touch rolls.

8d6 averages 27 points of damage. I'm guessing your paladin can do that with one extra attack. Haste gives him one extra attack/round. That helps him 'keep up'.

[Spuddles]

Summon Monster IV gets you mephits, which come with energy descriptors on your spells, which will let you fuel fiery burst. Also, SMIV is pretty good to have around, as there's some decent utility there (flyers, grapplers, some spells on the mephits like glitterdust, at will continual flame on lantern archon).

[Crake]

8d6 averages 27 points of damage. I'm guessing your paladin can do that with one extra attack. Haste gives him one extra attack/round. That helps him 'keep up'.

You do raise a good point, the extra attack is actually extremely potent on the paladin. You may have heard of the Final Word swords? Hes got one.

[Crake]

Summon Monster IV gets you mephits, which come with energy descriptors on your spells, which will let you fuel fiery burst. Also, SMIV is pretty good to have around, as there's some decent utility there (flyers, grapplers, some spells on the mephits like glitterdust, at will continual flame on lantern archon).

If I recall, spells that get a descriptor upon casting cant be used to fuel reserve feats. But you're right aside from that, there are definitely some interesting things on the 4th level list I didn't realize mephits were on there.

[Eldariel]

You do raise a good point, the extra attack is actually extremely potent on the paladin. You may have heard of the Final Word swords? Hes got one.

Don't forget, Haste is multitargeting. It'd allow your Clerics to hit an extra attack too, which can hurt quite a bit provided they have some Strength or Dex.

[Archmage1]

I kind of like Greater mirror image, as it is an immediate, and used properly, it makes you insanely hard to hit.

[Crake]

Don't forget, Haste is multitargeting. It'd allow your Clerics to hit an extra time too, which can hurt quite a bit provided they have some Strength or Dex.

That's true, but our clerics don't do that much weapon swinging in battle. Now that we've hit 7th level though, one of the clerics has been preparing that spell that gives you str + full bab, so he could potentially get something out of that.

[Crake]

I kind of like Greater mirror image, as it is an immediate, and used properly, it makes you insanely hard to hit.

Not in the player's handbook D=

[Eldariel]

That's true, but our clerics don't do that much weapon swinging in battle. Now that we've hit 7th level though, one of the clerics has been preparing that spell that gives you str + full bab, so he could potentially get something out of that.

That, and y'know, when you do cast Haste, at that time he could consider swinging 'cause it's significantly more efficient. You're also reaching the point where they don't even need a real weapon since Greater Magic Weapon does everything you need (once you reach Caster Level 8, it becomes wonderful).

[Sudain]

What is your combat role? Damager? Buffer? Battlefield control? Dispeller? Summoner?

Picking wizard spells is a lot like picking magic cards. You want to be consistent so you can do your job(whatever that is) whenever called upon. You also want to be versatile in how you do your job; so if you run into an immunity you can get around it.

You wouldn't want your healer to say, "Whoops; sorry I didn't prepair that. Good luck!" Your party doesn't want you to be inconsistent in what they will rely upon you for.

[Crake]

What is your combat role? Damager? Buffer? Battlefield control? Dispeller? Summoner?

The inquisitor cleric (aka, the one that reliably shows up) is definitely the dispeller, getting a +4 from the inquisition domain thats not limited by the caster level requirement of dispel. There's an average amount of damage around the field usually, but it always helps? Definitely not the buffer, most people either have gear that provides enough buffs, or they self buff. The druid is easily the summoner, with augment summoning and natures ally spontaneous casting.

I think I'd be battlefield control/damage.

The thing is, we're frequently fighting small numbers of enemies that are pretty powerful, and I've noticed alot of my save negates spells are wasted on most of them, so I've been moving to either no save or save for half spells to try and actually do something in combat rather than just achieving nothing when the enemy makes their saves. Up until recently I haven't had access to any control spells that weren't save negates. I've usually had a grease or two prepared, which has certainly helped here and there, but glitterdust very often fails to blind, Web can be nice, and I'm realizing as I'm typing this that I stopped preparing it because we fought a series of clerics that cast freedom of movement before combat, rendering it useless, but that's behind us for now, so I should prep that more often.

Tiny Hut I actually bought to use as something of a combat control spell, giving us vision while restricting enemies to blind fighting, but I've never had a chance where it was really applicable. Stinking cloud, more often than not results in enemies making the save, which sucks, its just a 3rd level fog cloud in in that case. Even Evard's has let me down in 2/3 of the combats I've had with it. In the 1/3 though, it was pretty damn amazing, holding a group of 4 gargoyles back while we fought some lycanthropes.

But yeah, my point is, I try to be combat control, but I like to keep damage spells in reserve so if/when my control spells fail me, I have some raw damage as back up.

Edit: Although, now that I finally have myself a 4th level fire spell, wall of fire, I suppose I can just save my 4d6 fiery burst as damage and prepare control in everything else, with the occasional Acid Arrow incase we fight something immune to fire.

[Spuddles]

If I recall, spells that get a descriptor upon casting cant be used to fuel reserve feats. But you're right aside from that, there are definitely some interesting things on the 4th level list I didn't realize mephits were on there.

The wording used from reserve feats:
"As long as you have a fire spell of 2nd level or higher available to cast"

Take what "available to cast" means. It's a bit more vague than "prepared" so leaves some room for shenanigans.

[Crake]

The wording used from reserve feats:
"As long as you have a fire spell of 2nd level or higher available to cast"

Take what "available to cast" means. It's a bit more vague than "prepared" so leaves some room for shenanigans.

That's a topic for debate, one that I've had with my DM already, and he said no.

[dextercorvia]

The wording used from reserve feats:
"As long as you have a fire spell of 2nd level or higher available to cast"

Take what "available to cast" means. It's a bit more vague than "prepared" so leaves some room for shenanigans.

It is clarified in the Reserve Feats section. Crake has the right of it so far as I've always seen.

[Sudain]

I think I'd be battlefield control/damage.

Awesome! :) You have a focus! :D I can certainly work with this.



The thing is, we're frequently fighting small numbers of enemies that are pretty powerful, and I've noticed alot of my save negates spells are wasted on most of them, so I've been moving to either no save or save for half spells to try and actually do something in combat rather than just achieving nothing when the enemy makes their saves. Up until recently I haven't had access to any control spells that weren't save negates. I've usually had a grease or two prepared, which has certainly helped here and there, but glitterdust very often fails to blind, Web can be nice, and I'm realizing as I'm typing this that I stopped preparing it because we fought a series of clerics that cast freedom of movement before combat, rendering it useless, but that's behind us for now, so I should prep that more often.


Humm... not sure if your DM's rigging the fights so his monsters don't get crippled or not. Freedom of movement is a 4th level spell(level 7 caster) for clerics. Maybe it was an above CR fight? Either way moving to some effect upon a successful save is smart. Grease and web are awesome. I prefer pyrotechnics over glitter-dust honestly. I will type out a list of my preferred battlefield control spells; and why I like them. All PHB baby. :)




Tiny Hut I actually bought to use as something of a combat control spell, giving us vision while restricting enemies to blind fighting, but I've never had a chance where it was really applicable. Stinking cloud, more often than not results in enemies making the save, which sucks, its just a 3rd level fog cloud in in that case. Even Evard's has let me down in 2/3 of the combats I've had with it. In the 1/3 though, it was pretty damn amazing, holding a group of 4 gargoyles back while we fought some lycanthropes.


Tiny hut is difficult to use. Only application I've seen is a deliberate ambush where they are trying to creep up on you. Or camping.

Battlefield control spells typically fall into 2 uses for me. Movement restriction, and sight restriction. Movement is awesome because they can't run away, charge towards you, makes flanking more difficult, etc... Sight restriction is awesome because it makes people WANT to move. Archers can't shoot; casters can't target to cast, melee don't want to be flanked. I've found people exiting a cloud don't typically do it in unison so formations are broken up.

Alot of the time the cloud spells have a rider effect - create a cloud that if people stay in XYZ happens to them or they have to make the save. Just count that as an awesome. Feel free to pick your spell based upon the rider effect(stinking cloud for example) but don't depend on it. You are casting the cloud to block vision and break up formations. As a side benefit (for stinking cloud) people with low fort(casters, and lower level people) will be sickened. They are sorting themselves into their high/low saves for you. If you manage to toss on a movement impairing effect while they are in there(black identical/web, etc.. all the better.

Conversely if you are fighting people that are highly mobile and will leave your clouds within 1 round restrict their movement with walls, slow, sleet storm, etc... Or put clouds up so that to target you they have to go through the clouds and get close. Battlefield control is about relying upon the effect itself to do the job(walls, block line of sight, extinguish torches, etc...), anything extra is just cool.


^^ That's my sermon on how I think about using battlefield control spells. Hopefully it's helpful to you.


Direct Damage/Blasting - Great choice as a back up. :D


-=-=-
Battle Control Spells
Movement Impairing
Open/Close - highly specialized; but it's also a 0th level spell. If you've got nothing better why not.
Grease - makes them trip and fall. Even if they save if they don't have 5 ranks in balance they are considered flatfooted. Most people don't have 5 ranks.
Web - slows people down even if they make their save.
Slow - Multi-target that moves with the target. Sadly if they save then no effect.
Black Tentacles - impairs movement via grapple. Casters typically have low grapple.
Resilient Sphere - Yup you don't have access to it but it's still an amazing single target spell.
Wall of Ice - Create a wall of ice to split the baddies up. Or capture one. Be creative. :)



Sight Impairing
Pyrotechnics - long range and allows you to target saves when blinding people. Sadly it is no partial on save. So just target the save you need to.
Fog Cloud - no save and 10 min/level.
Sleet Storm - Long range; no save. Wide range, and forces them to use balance to get out faster.
Stinking Cloud - No save. Could and rider effect that may make them sickened.
Solid Fog - No save. Movement and sight impairing. Allows much better positioning for your team.
Ice Storm - No save. A cloud that does NOT stick around. does damage as a rider effect.
Illusory Wall - *Permanent duration* It creates a figment that they must see through first(so but until then they see the wall; and as such do NOT see what's behind it). Not great in an open field; but in a dungeon or city much more useful.


Other Utility
Dispel Magic - removes some of the suck on you and their goodies. Use with care.
Phantom Steed - Most of the you BC spells have a range of medium. ABUSE this to keep you safe.
Arcane Sight - Great for finding invisible people. :) Or finding who's the biggest baddest of them all(via magic) so you can dispell them. :) Or being creepy in the middle of the night to scare the inn-keepers daughter.
Remove Curse - worth keeping a couple(1-2) scrolls on hand for, or be able to prepair.
Wind Wall - specialized but it forces archers to change positions. Also part defensive. Possible RP uses.



I know you don't have access to 5th level spells yet but here are a few to keep your eyes on.
Cloudkill - moving cloud. Rider fort effect. No save for the cloud effect.
Wall of Stone - Shape able wall. Harder to break through than wall of ice. Also breaks sight.
Wall of Force - blocks pretty much everything but line of sight.
Break Enchantment - again great to have 1 or 2 scrolls of(or be able to prepair)
Prying Eyes - Personal favorite.
Contact Other Plane - Again personal favorite.
Dream/Nightmare - just cool utility.
Persistent Image - you don't have to concentrate on the illusion. Set it and forget it. Huge plus.
Permanency - talk to your DM about this one.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

As for greater invis, we do happen to have a rogue who I had in mind for that...

Ok, that would do him wonders.


We do have *A* martial character, a paladin, but hes decked out in some pretty sweet assed gear, so his damage output isn't TOO bad. That said, sometimes his damage output is too slow...

Ok, so you have a Paladin and a Rogue as your martial characters, casting haste for them will have a huge effect on their overall damage output, especially for the Rogue.


...and the cleric (or sometimes clerics, if our second cleric actually shows up) cant keep him alive.

As for my buffing spells, those are actually for Item creation, as I'm the party item crafter. The DM lets other party members spend their XP when I'm making them stuff, but I still need the spells.

IIRC you can have another spellcaster provide the spell component for a magic item. If you have a cleric who is there most of the time, he could provide them for you, and you don't have to worry about it at all.

[Invader]

With a little prior planning shrink item and animate dead can be extremely useful.

[Spuddles]

Shrink item is an incredible spell. Did you know you can turn lava into little cloth patches, then throw it at someone for a disgustingly large amount of damage?

Per the rules, you can copy spells into your spellbook even if you cannot cast them yet. I would pick up teleport and overland flight asap.

[Crake]

Awesome! :) You have a focus! :D I can certainly work with this.



Humm... not sure if your DM's rigging the fights so his monsters don't get crippled or not. Freedom of movement is a 4th level spell(level 7 caster) for clerics. Maybe it was an above CR fight? Either way moving to some effect upon a successful save is smart. Grease and web are awesome. I prefer pyrotechnics over glitter-dust honestly. I will type out a list of my preferred battlefield control spells; and why I like them. All PHB baby. :)




Tiny hut is difficult to use. Only application I've seen is a deliberate ambush where they are trying to creep up on you. Or camping.

Battlefield control spells typically fall into 2 uses for me. Movement restriction, and sight restriction. Movement is awesome because they can't run away, charge towards you, makes flanking more difficult, etc... Sight restriction is awesome because it makes people WANT to move. Archers can't shoot; casters can't target to cast, melee don't want to be flanked. I've found people exiting a cloud don't typically do it in unison so formations are broken up.

Alot of the time the cloud spells have a rider effect - create a cloud that if people stay in XYZ happens to them or they have to make the save. Just count that as an awesome. Feel free to pick your spell based upon the rider effect(stinking cloud for example) but don't depend on it. You are casting the cloud to block vision and break up formations. As a side benefit (for stinking cloud) people with low fort(casters, and lower level people) will be sickened. They are sorting themselves into their high/low saves for you. If you manage to toss on a movement impairing effect while they are in there(black identical/web, etc.. all the better.

Conversely if you are fighting people that are highly mobile and will leave your clouds within 1 round restrict their movement with walls, slow, sleet storm, etc... Or put clouds up so that to target you they have to go through the clouds and get close. Battlefield control is about relying upon the effect itself to do the job(walls, block line of sight, extinguish torches, etc...), anything extra is just cool.


^^ That's my sermon on how I think about using battlefield control spells. Hopefully it's helpful to you.


Direct Damage/Blasting - Great choice as a back up. :D


-=-=-
Battle Control Spells
Movement Impairing
Open/Close - highly specialized; but it's also a 0th level spell. If you've got nothing better why not.
Grease - makes them trip and fall. Even if they save if they don't have 5 ranks in balance they are considered flatfooted. Most people don't have 5 ranks.
Web - slows people down even if they make their save.
Slow - Multi-target that moves with the target. Sadly if they save then no effect.
Black Tentacles - impairs movement via grapple. Casters typically have low grapple.
Resilient Sphere - Yup you don't have access to it but it's still an amazing single target spell.
Wall of Ice - Create a wall of ice to split the baddies up. Or capture one. Be creative. :)



Sight Impairing
Pyrotechnics - long range and allows you to target saves when blinding people. Sadly it is no partial on save. So just target the save you need to.
Fog Cloud - no save and 10 min/level.
Sleet Storm - Long range; no save. Wide range, and forces them to use balance to get out faster.
Stinking Cloud - No save. Could and rider effect that may make them sickened.
Solid Fog - No save. Movement and sight impairing. Allows much better positioning for your team.
Ice Storm - No save. A cloud that does NOT stick around. does damage as a rider effect.
Illusory Wall - *Permanent duration* It creates a figment that they must see through first(so but until then they see the wall; and as such do NOT see what's behind it). Not great in an open field; but in a dungeon or city much more useful.


Other Utility
Dispel Magic - removes some of the suck on you and their goodies. Use with care.
Phantom Steed - Most of the you BC spells have a range of medium. ABUSE this to keep you safe.
Arcane Sight - Great for finding invisible people. :) Or finding who's the biggest baddest of them all(via magic) so you can dispell them. :) Or being creepy in the middle of the night to scare the inn-keepers daughter.
Remove Curse - worth keeping a couple(1-2) scrolls on hand for, or be able to prepair.
Wind Wall - specialized but it forces archers to change positions. Also part defensive. Possible RP uses.



I know you don't have access to 5th level spells yet but here are a few to keep your eyes on.
Cloudkill - moving cloud. Rider fort effect. No save for the cloud effect.
Wall of Stone - Shape able wall. Harder to break through than wall of ice. Also breaks sight.
Wall of Force - blocks pretty much everything but line of sight.
Break Enchantment - again great to have 1 or 2 scrolls of(or be able to prepair)
Prying Eyes - Personal favorite.
Contact Other Plane - Again personal favorite.
Dream/Nightmare - just cool utility.
Persistent Image - you don't have to concentrate on the illusion. Set it and forget it. Huge plus.
Permanency - talk to your DM about this one.

Wow, that's a HUGE amount of insight, thanks XD


Shrink item is an incredible spell. Did you know you can turn lava into little cloth patches, then throw it at someone for a disgustingly large amount of damage?

Per the rules, you can copy spells into your spellbook even if you cannot cast them yet. I would pick up teleport and overland flight asap.

really? you can do that? I never even realised. Teleport is definitely one I'd take, but overland flight? We mostly use phantom steed for travel, is there something else that overland flight can be used for that I'm not seeing?
40ft flight with average maneuverability seems a bit lackluster for combat.

[Eldariel]

really? you can do that? I never even realised.

Shrink boulders, dispel the Shrink or throw 'em into AMFs and have some fun. Overall, the combination of shrinking something and returning it to its original state is quite potent.


Teleport is definitely one I'd take, but overland flight? We mostly use phantom steed for travel, is there something else that overland flight can be used for that I'm not seeing?
40ft flight with average maneuverability seems a bit lackluster for combat.

It lasts all day. That's about it. Hour/level means you never need to spend another action to cast Fly again. It's fast enough for most purposes and you're still faster than walkers in combat not to mention that you, y'know, fly.

[Crake]

It lasts all day. That's about it. Hour/level means you never need to spend another action to cast Fly again. It's fast enough for most purposes and you're still faster than walkers in combat not to mention that you, y'know, fly.

I feel like the average maneuverability makes it less useful in tight dungeon corridors. I can see it being useful in more open environments, but I don't think it's something I would spend my highest level spellslot on when I can cast something more potent for battle. There was a plot sequence when my wizard was basically told "stop looking out for number 1 and be more of a team player" so a self only buff that seems like it would be great mostly for running away seems a bit contrary to that.

[Eldariel]

I feel like the average maneuverability makes it less useful in tight dungeon corridors. I can see it being useful in more open environments, but I don't think it's something I would spend my highest level spellslot on when I can cast something more potent for battle. There was a plot sequence when my wizard was basically told "stop looking out for number 1 and be more of a team player" so a self only buff that seems like it would be great mostly for running away seems a bit contrary to that.

Well, certainly not in small dungeons but in overland travel, outdoors, etc. it's exceedingly useful. Of course, if you only ever encounter adversaries in small dungeons without enough room to fly, the utility of flight is sharply diminished.

[Crake]

Well, certainly not in small dungeons but in overland travel, outdoors, etc. it's exceedingly useful. Of course, if you only ever encounter adversaries in small dungeons without enough room to fly, the utility of flight is sharply diminished.

I suppose when you put it that way its definitely something I can cast while we're traveling or in a city, but most of the time our city encounters are roleplay rather than combat, because we don't like to risk innocent bystanders, and with phantom steed, not much can keep up with us on the road to actually attack us. I suppose as something I can cast while we're resting? But we usually ropetrick our rest time away.

[Spuddles]

Overland flight means always being able to GTFO of a bad situation with your move action.

Being threatened by something and already used your GTFO spell (or don't mind copping the AoO)? Fly away.

I like it because it lasts all day and is action efficient. I also love 3rd level slots, so wouldn't want to be using them all up on fly spells. That, and I would rather open with a different defensive spell in combat (imp invis, mirror image, etc.).

Casting spells on a phantom steed requires a concentration check, I think you have to make ride checks to stay on your mount when you take damage, your horse isn't invisible, it's too big for tight spaces, and you take penalties on ranged attack rolls.

The average maneuverability in tight spaces can be countered with spider climb. Just land on ceilings or walls. At 10min/level, you've got an hour and a half at level 9, which is almost an entire adventuring day.

But the real advantage is always having a move action available to move out of somewhere bad.

Are the ONLY spells you can get PHB ones, or only at the current place? Because I would save the spells you get on level up to pull from different sources.

[Crake]

Overland flight means always being able to GTFO of a bad situation with your move action.

Being threatened by something and already used your GTFO spell (or don't mind copping the AoO)? Fly away.

I like it because it lasts all day and is action efficient. I also love 3rd level slots, so wouldn't want to be using them all up on fly spells. That, and I would rather open with a different defensive spell in combat (imp invis, mirror image, etc.).

Casting spells on a phantom steed requires a concentration check, I think you have to make ride checks to stay on your mount when you take damage, your horse isn't invisible, it's too big for tight spaces, and you take penalties on ranged attack rolls.

The average maneuverability in tight spaces can be countered with spider climb. Just land on ceilings or walls. At 10min/level, you've got an hour and a half at level 9, which is almost an entire adventuring day.

But the real advantage is always having a move action available to move out of somewhere bad.

Are the ONLY spells you can get PHB ones, or only at the current place? Because I would save the spells you get on level up to pull from different sources.

the only way to get non-phb spells is to ask the DM if I can, and then if he ok's the spell, my character needs to do ingame research, consuming time and money to get it. So it'd have to be a pretty kick ass spell for us to really want to get it.

[Sudain]

If you can research spells check out the druids control winds spell. Then lookup the wind effects for different strengths. Pretty freaking amazing stuff.

If you go that route; consider getting air-related puns like 'windbag', or 'full of hot-air'. :)

[ericgrau]

I wouldn't take overland flight as your first 5th level spell when you could put an offensive spell there. I might take it as your 2nd or 3rd though. Hour/level buffs are nice because you can both protect yourself and still contribute to the fight, unlike spells that require combat time to cast. Here are some good spells to consider that weren't on your list:

3: *sleet storm, *greater magic weapon, *haste, dispel magic
4: *stoneskin (if you can spare about 2,000 gp for 8 uses), solid fog, wall of ice, illusory wall
5: *wall of force, wall of stone, persistent image, overland flight, teleport
later: *? (see end of post) ray of enfeeblement, *false life, magic jar, heroism
* really good

Wall of force is perhaps the best battlefield control spell in all of core. No save, no SR, no destroying it (with rare exceptions), no dispelling it, no AMFing it. Just boom, crowd controlled. Sleet storm is another favorite for cc. GMW is hour per level and helps your whole party; you should really have it by the time you get 5th level spells so you can burn your lower level slots in a very effective way. There are only so many rounds in a combat to cast things. I know people fear burning money like the plague but the combat in a campaign is very brief, so stoneskin is well worth the cost. In fact 8 uses is being generous; if you can manage 4 uses it's still awesome. If you do a lot of dungeons it's even better because you can cast it at the entrance. If you have empower spell when you turn generalist then ray of enfeeblement is a must.

[Crake]

I wouldn't take overland flight as your first 5th level spell when you could put an offensive spell there. I might take it as your 2nd or 3rd though. Hour/level buffs are nice because you can both protect yourself and still contribute to the fight, unlike spells that require combat time to cast. Here are some good spells to consider that weren't on your list:

3: *sleet storm, *greater magic weapon, *haste, dispel magic
4: *stoneskin (if you can spare about 2,000 gp for 8 uses), solid fog, wall of ice, illusory wall
5: *wall of force, wall of stone, persistent image, overland flight, teleport
later: *? (see end of post) ray of enfeeblement, *false life, magic jar, heroism
* really good

Wall of force is perhaps the best battlefield control spell in all of core. No save, no SR, no destroying it (with rare exceptions), no dispelling it, no AMFing it. Just boom, crowd controlled. Sleet storm is another favorite for cc. GMW is hour per level and helps your whole party; you should really have it by the time you get 5th level spells so you can burn your lower level slots in a very effective way. There are only so many rounds in a combat to cast things. I know people fear burning money like the plague but the combat in a campaign is very brief, so stoneskin is well worth the cost. In fact 8 uses is being generous; if you can manage 4 uses it's still awesome. If you do a lot of dungeons it's even better because you can cast it at the entrance. If you have empower spell when you turn generalist then ray of enfeeblement is a must.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I had no idea greater magic weapon lasted an hour per level, after hearing that it's definitely something I'm going to add to my collection.
Stoneskin I actually already have on my list, and also have a bit (1200gp worth) of diamond dust leftover from when we raided a spell component storehouse in the dungeon we're in. So enough for 4 uses, minus any we use for restoration and whatnot.

[Sith_Happens]

The only limit that has been placed on me is spells with a name before them. I know for a fact that Otiluke doesn't want me going through his spells, so none of his spells. Any of the others I'll have to ask next session.

Your DM has a rather odd take on "[Name]'s" spells. The prefix generally just means that that person invented the spell and gets to have their name in everyones' books as a reward, not that they're keeping it to themself.

[Crake]

Your DM has a rather odd take on "[Name]'s" spells. The prefix generally just means that that person invented the spell and gets to have their name in everyones' books as a reward, not that they're keeping it to themself.

They aren't necessarily keeping it to themselves, but they can demand that access be restricted at institutions such as these. Obviously, if a random scroll dealer happened to have some of their spells, there wouldn't be any restriction. But we're playing in Greyhawk, where most of those mages are still alive and have a strong influence.

[Malachei]

If, as a 7th level wizard, I'd have to prepare core only spells, and choose each spell only once, without considering bonus spells for high ability or specialization, I'd go for:

Color Spray (wonderful debuff), Grease (solid battlefield control), Shield (excellent protection), Silent Image (super-multi-purpose)
Alter Self (multi-purpose buff), Glitterdust (excellent debuff), Invisibility (multi-purpose buff)
Haste (excellent frontline buff), Stinking Cloud (outstanding debuff and battlefield control)
Solid Fog (ultimate battlefield control)

[Crake]

If, as a 7th level wizard, I'd have to prepare core only spells, and choose each spell only once, without considering bonus spells for high ability or specialization, I'd go for:

Color Spray (wonderful debuff), Grease (solid battlefield control), Shield (excellent protection), Silent Image (super-multi-purpose)
Alter Self (multi-purpose buff), Glitterdust (excellent debuff), Invisibility (multi-purpose buff)
Haste (excellent frontline buff), Stinking Cloud (outstanding debuff and battlefield control)
Solid Fog (ultimate battlefield control)


what if you were a conjurer with 25 int?

[Malachei]

what if you were a conjurer with 25 int?

I wouldn't play core then :smallbiggrin:


Edit: What are your prohibited schools?

[Crake]

I wouldn't play core then :smallbiggrin:


Edit: What are your prohibited schools?

At the moment, necromancy and enchantment, but in a few levels I plan to retrain to elven generalist wizard.

[Malachei]

At the moment, necromancy and enchantment, but in a few levels I plan to retrain to elven generalist wizard.

Although PHB II allows this, personally, I wouldn't.

But this makes spell selection easier:



(4+2+1) -- Color Spray, Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Grease, Mage Armor, Shield, Silent Image
(3+2+1) -- Alter Self, Glitterdust, Invisibility*, Mirror Image, Rope Trick, Web
(2+2+1) -- Dispel Magic, Fly, Haste, Stinking Cloud, Slow
(1+1+1) -- Greater Invisibility, Solid Fog, Wall of Fire



* If Greater Invisibility provides enough invisibility per day, you might prefer Detect Thoughts, instead.

The above assumes you don't want to take Polymorph. Of course, situationally, other choices may be better.

[Crake]

Although PHB II allows this, personally, I wouldn't.

But this makes spell selection easier:



(4+2+1) -- Color Spray, Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Grease, Mage Armor, Shield, Silent Image
(3+2+1) -- Alter Self, Glitterdust, Invisibility*, Mirror Image, Rope Trick, Web
(2+2+1) -- Dispel Magic, Fly, Haste, Stinking Cloud, Slow
(1+1+1) -- Greater Invisibility, Solid Fog, Wall of Fire



* If Greater Invisibility provides enough invisibility per day, you might prefer Detect Thoughts, instead.

The above assumes you don't want to take Polymorph. Of course, situationally, other choices may be better.

Hmm, interesting selection, why alter self if I may ask? I personally picked it up as disguise, because.. well, lets just say there was a mishap and we're wanted in a nearby town.

Edit: Also, why not retrain to generalist? My main reasoning behind it is because I have a custom made relic that the DM designed before this character entered the campaign (not my first character >.> I've lost a few) that enhances a character's Illusion, Enchantment and Necromancy (me and the rogue had a good laugh when the DM was explaining its powers after we got it legend lored), so I figured I may as well retrain to generalist to take advantage of that.
If the reason is solid enough, I suppose I could stick to conjurer and just take advantage of the illusion boost, but I definitely wouldn't be able to pick restricted schools that aren't of those 3.

Edit2: Also quick question, I'm planning on going Wiz 7/Loremaster 10/Archmage 3, Which 2 schools would be good to get spell focus in for archmage?

[Eldariel]

Hmm, interesting selection, why alter self if I may ask? I personally picked it up as disguise, because.. well, lets just say there was a mishap and we're wanted in a nearby town.

Alter Self is amazing. You can get up to 6 Natural Armor from Trogdolyte in combat, you can get Swim or Fly-speeds, you can disguise as anything, you can gain natural attacks, it's a supremely versatile spell. And 10 min/level on a second level slot. This compendium may help you on what exactly you can acquire (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2811).


Edit2: Also quick question, I'm planning on going Wiz 7/Loremaster 10/Archmage 3, Which 2 schools would be good to get spell focus in for archmage?

Archmage 5 > Loremaster 10. I suggest going Wiz 7/Loremaster 8/Archmagus 5

And Spell Foci? Conjuration is a gimme; Conjuration has some of the most brutal save-or-Xs and they can target every save (Web, Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud; you get all 3 saves by level 3 and then just keep going). The second one is a bit harder; Transmutation and Illusion are up there. They have a lot of save-or-Xs and are pretty versatile. If you plan on using Shadow Anything, you probably want Illusion. Illusion also has the most double saves (though those spells aren't usually very good, at least not for offense) so if you plan on using any of them it's something to consider.

Things like Illusionary Darkness, Illusionary Walls and such (things you can create with images) are nice for saves; you can communicate your allies they're illusions while enemies need to save the hard way.


Evocation's saves are almost all reflex so that's a bit of a waste and you can pick the Evocations without save anyways. Abjuration has precious few saves in general, but Necromancy can be decent. There's few decent save-or-Xs there though Transmutation is probably a better option (still, Magic Jar is Necro and absolutely hilarious).

So I'd go Conjuration and Transmutation.

[Crake]

Alter Self is amazing. You can get up to 6 Natural Armor from Trogdolyte in combat, you can get Swim or Fly-speeds, you can disguise as anything, you can gain natural attacks, it's a supremely versatile spell. And 10 min/level on a second level slot. This compendium may help you on what exactly you can acquire (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2811).



Archmage 5 > Loremaster 10. I suggest going Wiz 7/Loremaster 8/Archmagus 5

And Spell Foci? Conjuration is a gimme; Conjuration has some of the most brutal save-or-Xs and they can target every save (Web, Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud; you get all 3 saves by level 3 and then just keep going). The second one is a bit harder; Transmutation and Illusion are up there. They have a lot of save-or-Xs and are pretty versatile. If you plan on using Shadow Anything, you probably want Illusion. Illusion also has the most double saves (though those spells aren't usually very good, at least not for offense) so if you plan on using any of them it's something to consider.

Things like Illusionary Darkness, Illusionary Walls and such (things you can create with images) are nice for saves; you can communicate your allies they're illusions while enemies need to save the hard way.


Evocation's saves are almost all reflex so that's a bit of a waste and you can pick the Evocations without save anyways. Abjuration has precious few saves in general, but Necromancy can be decent. There's few decent save-or-Xs there though Transmutation is probably a better option (still, Magic Jar is Necro and absolutely hilarious).

So I'd go Conjuration and Transmutation.

I'd prefer to go Loremaster 10 simply because of the huge role that knowledge checks and the legend lore spell have played in the campaign thus far. Also it fits very well with my character theme, he has every knowledge skill at at least 5 ranks right now, with arcana and the planes maxed for Loremaster entry. BOOKS!

Anyway, Conjuration focus does seem like a good choice, and probably one I will take, but Illusion, Transmutation and Necromancy all look like great second choices right now.
Transmutation sure does look nice with slow, baleful polymorph, reduce person, flesh to stone, telekinesis, man the list just goes on.
Edit: ahh, they all have so many great spells >_<

[Spuddles]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I had no idea greater magic weapon lasted an hour per level, after hearing that it's definitely something I'm going to add to my collection.
Stoneskin I actually already have on my list, and also have a bit (1200gp worth) of diamond dust leftover from when we raided a spell component storehouse in the dungeon we're in. So enough for 4 uses, minus any we use for restoration and whatnot.

You can always get party members to buy diamond dust if they want stoneskin. That's what I usually do, anyway.

[MrRigger]

Personally, I prefer Heart of Earth to Stoneskin, since there isn't an expensive material component, lasts hours/level, and has some nifty bonuses (especially when paired with the other spells in the Heart of X line), but there is that downside of being a Personal Spell, instead of a Touch Spell. If you're looking to buff others in the party, Stoneskin is better.

MrRigger

[ericgrau]

For spell focus I'd go conjuration + whatever else you cast. For a general purpose caster no other school really jumps out with a lot of useful save negates spells. You might argue that one school is a hair better but really you should look at your prepared spells and pick the school with the most save negates among those. And maybe count the save partial spells as half a spell for this purpose.

Looking at your current spells known list I see:
illusion: 1/2
evocation: 1 (1/2 x 2)
transmutation: 1
abjuration: 1

But really it depends which ones you prepare, which might also include some of the new spells you are deciding on. And yet you have a half dozen conjurations that are save negates or save partial. This is what I mean by saying that the 2nd school isn't so clear cut. It depends entirely on what spells you prepare and whether or not they even have saves. And really if it's only one spell, the question is "Which spell is your favorite and does your 2nd spell focus even matter that much anyway?"

[Malachei]

Personally, I prefer Heart of Earth to Stoneskin, since there isn't an expensive material component, lasts hours/level, and has some nifty bonuses (especially when paired with the other spells in the Heart of X line), but there is that downside of being a Personal Spell, instead of a Touch Spell. If you're looking to buff others in the party, Stoneskin is better.

MrRigger

I do so, too, but his first post stated his game is core spells only.

[Crake]

Ok, with pyrotechnics, teleport, wall of ice and haste added to my book I'm now sitting at 4750gp left. I want to save some for a ring of sustenance, about 3000gp, just in case the shopkeeper doesn't like me or something, so with that, I have about enough money left for either another 5th, a 4th and a 3rd, or some lower level spells. Maybe pick up stuff like ray of enfeeblement and enervation in case I don't have resources available when I become a generalist?

Edit: Or not. Just recalculated my cash, I had some horrible rounding errors or something, I'm actually only at 3225gp.

[Sudain]

Don't forget to keep some cash on hand; you may need to bribe a guard or beg for a healer's help if things get messy.

[Crake]

Don't forget to keep some cash on hand; you may need to bribe a guard or beg for a healer's help if things get messy.

Nah, we have a party fund for things like that, this is my personal stash. I keep it in a miniature portable hole that comes with my kick ass robe, along with various other things like a scrying mirror, magic item crafting components and my spellbooks. I even have some cockatrice feathers in there incase I feel like I need to petrify someone.

[Randomguy]

Ball lightning, from spell compedium, might be worth researching. It's like a much more powerful flaming sphere. There's also Vortex of Teeth.

Flaming sphere on it's own is great, and even better when combined with pyrotechnics, although the second one might be less useful since, as you said, most of your enemies have good saves.

[Crake]

Ball lightning, from spell compedium, might be worth researching. It's like a much more powerful flaming sphere. There's also Vortex of Teeth.

Flaming sphere on it's own is great, and even better when combined with pyrotechnics, although the second one might be less useful since, as you said, most of your enemies have good saves.

Flaming sphere itself is save negates, so good saves kinda make it just as pointless. That said, I never considered it's conjunction with pyrotechnics. Our druid can cast it, so I wont bother getting a copy for myself, but its definitely something we could co-ordinate.

[Sudain]

Ask your DM how pyrotechnics and continual flame play together. Then see if anyone in your party may be willing to get continual flame on their weapons. *grin*

[Randomguy]

Ask your DM how pyrotechnics and continual flame play together. Then see if anyone in your party may be willing to get continual flame on their weapons. *grin*

And instead of actually casting continual flame, just summon a Lantern Archon, so you can get it cast for free a bunch of times with just one spell slot.

EDIT: You'd need Summon Monster 4 for that, though, but it's a good spell anyway (I think).

Double EDIT: Wow. I can see why summoning spells are so useful: If you don't have the right spell, you can just summon something with that spell as a spell like ability and it can fight for you, too. Neat.

[Malachei]

Double EDIT: Wow. I can see why summoning spells are so useful: If you don't have the right spell, you can just summon something with that spell as a spell like ability and it can fight for you, too. Neat.

Indeed, and behold, there is more information for you: here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872758/Mastering_the_Malconvoker) (includes list of SLA gained through summoned monster).

[Crake]

Hey guys, good news: I got all the spells I wanted. Bad news: I died twice in one session D=

First resurrection was a true res from a cursed monkey paw that cost the paladin 2 permanent (unrecoverable by any means) Con drain, coupled with the initial 1 con drain from resurrecting the druid who died alongside me (drains 1 more con each time, so 1+2+3+4, fifth just outright kills you)

Second death occurred moments before the end of the session. So I'm stuck dead. Good news: If I can get a true res, I'll res, get xp from the fight and level to 8. Bad news: If I get a regular res, I'll drop to 6 and the xp from the fight wont get me to level 7 D=

I'll have to see how it pans out on tuesday, but I'd like to thank everyone who's posted in this thread for all their wonderful help.

[Randomguy]

How did you die?

[Crake]

How did you die?

First time was a swarm of 16 shadows.

Second time was a greater shadow.

Dat strength drain

Fun story: We killed the swarm of normal shadows by summoning satyrs and elementals, who we promptly death warded to protect from the shadows, and got them to read some explosive runes when they were surrounded by shadows cause force damage baby.

[Malachei]

Why didn't you protect yourselves instead of your summoned monsters? Sheltered Vitality, for instance, would have likely saved your character's life.

[Crake]

Why didn't you protect yourselves instead of your summoned monsters? Sheltered Vitality, for instance, would have likely saved your character's life.

2 reasons, one was that when we protected our summons, we were at a long and safe distance from the enemies, a while after the first encounter which resulted in our deaths. The other reason being that sheltered vitality is not core, so the druid couldn't have cast it.

There's also the issue that we didn't know we'd be up against shadows, they just kinda popped out of the walls and floor. I'm fairly sure that we actually saved the party from a TPK by me and the druid going off alone, because we certainly weren't prepared to take on 16 shadows and a greater shadow all at once. Our cleric only has 3 levels of turning, he went into church inquisitor after level 3, and the paladin only has 6 levels of paladin followed by fist of raizel, so turning them all was not an option, not to mention that there were 16 of them, all with 5 effective HD after turn resistance.

[Randomguy]

You might want to look into some anti incorporeal spells. Take a look at Force Missiles or Chain Missiles from SpC. You'd need to research them, though.

One of the Summon Undead spells might also be useful, since skeletons can't take ability damage. Again, though, you'd need to research it yourself.

Alternatively, take Transdimensional spell as a metamagic feat and apply it to your fireballs.

[Eldariel]

You might want to look into some anti incorporeal spells. Take a look at Force Missiles or Chain Missiles from SpC. You'd need to research them, though.

One of the Summon Undead spells might also be useful, since skeletons can't take ability damage. Again, though, you'd need to research it yourself.

Alternatively, take Transdimensional spell as a metamagic feat and apply it to your fireballs.

Command Undead is pretty darn good against undead, especially mindless ones.

[Sudain]

Before you go around researching stuff... has this been a consistent problem? Or would the issue of finding the undead be solved by sending a pack mule(an acutal animal) first?

[Crake]

Before you go around researching stuff... has this been a consistent problem? Or would the issue of finding the undead be solved by sending a pack mule(an acutal animal) first?

As much as I absolutely LOVE this idea, there's no way in hell I'd be able to convince the other party members (their characters, not the players themselves, we're pretty roleplay heavy) to go along with it.

Also update: We found a staff of life (good news) with 15 charges (meh news) which we promptly used to resurrect me and the druid's special animal companion. So I'm at level 6, with 75xp to level 7 (despite being less than 1000xp from level 8 when I died, noooo).

Some cool stuff happened with a Lamia today that made me look like less of a chump from last session though. Basically had a wizards duel with it, it was pretty intense. Best part was when it tried to deep slumber me, and I failed my will save horribly, but then when the DM told me I fell asleep I was like "but I'm an elf?"

[ericgrau]

Lesser restoration solves some pretty common problems. Buy the cleric a few scrolls. In general he should carry a few different scrolls for a variety of problems. Potions of invisibility are good for escaping in emergencies. Or in your case use a scroll or a spell. In general it's nice to carry 20 scrolls to handle a variety of random problems.

Magic missile is good for fighting hard to hit foes in general, but especially incorporeal foes. Averages 17 damage vs. a shadow's 19 hp, and hard to hit foes in general tend to have poor hp to compensate for it. At future levels get it empowered if you have empower spell.

The common pattern you may notice here is that I wouldn't dare suggest an anti-shadow spell. You might never fight a shadow again, and hindsight answers are pretty dumb as general solutions. All of the above are meant as general solutions. If you do expect more shadows, then a CL 7 scroll of empowered magic missile will usually 1 shot them. They are 525 gp a pop, but it's cheaper than a ressurection. And you don't actually lose it until you use it so it's not like you'll waste 525 gp on nothing.

[Crake]

Lesser restoration solves some pretty common problems. Buy the cleric a few scrolls. In general he should carry a few different scrolls for a variety of problems. Potions of invisibility are good for escaping in emergencies. Or in your case use a scroll or a spell. In general it's nice to carry 20 scrolls to handle a variety of random problems.

Magic missile is good for fighting hard to hit foes in general, but especially incorporeal foes. Averages 17 damage vs. a shadow's 19 hp, and hard to hit foes in general tend to have poor hp to compensate for it. At future levels get it empowered if you have empower spell.

The common pattern you may notice here is that I wouldn't dare suggest an anti-shadow spell. You might never fight a shadow again, and hindsight answers are pretty dumb as general solutions. All of the above are meant as general solutions. If you do expect more shadows, then a CL 7 scroll of empowered magic missile will usually 1 shot them. They are 525 gp a pop, but it's cheaper than a ressurection. And you don't actually lose it until you use it so it's not like you'll waste 525 gp on nothing.

Its not so much shadows specifically, but incorporeal creatures that surprise us. I tend to scout ahead with arcane eye before we go anywhere, but incorporeal creatures aren't necessarily going to be *in* the room for me to see. The other issue has been Illusions, since arcane eye has no way of interacting with them, so I have no chance at a save. If there was some way that I could let the inquisitor look through the arcane eye, he would get saves against them just by seeing them.

[ericgrau]

Examining counts as interacting, so if you take your time and study each feature of the room you can get a save vs. the illusions.

If you constantly face incorporeal creatures then the empowered magic missile scrolls or maybe even a wand are probably a good idea. Or pick up empower and prepare the spell yourself. Empower is also great on ray of enfeeblement, fireball, scorching ray, enervation and false life. It worked quite well on a character of mine who used a lot of evocation and necromancy. And he had conjuration crowd control too which combines nicely with those for other reasons.

You might suggest ghost touch weapons to the party as well and then haste them. Again, all this assumes incorporeal foes are very common otherwise you switch to more general answers. If the party has an archer he can get a few ghost touch arrows which he only uses on incorporeal, so unlike the melee he isn't at a drawback against other foes. Or if he can afford them better yet get ghost touch undead bane arrows. Low incorporeal hp and rapid shot will let him mow them down.

[Melcar]

You need:

Level 3: Shivering Touch (Frostburn p. 104)

Level 4: Chains of Vengenge (Book of Eldritch might 1 p. 16)

These are epically powerful, some might even say broken. I say an absolut need!!! Hope this helps!

[Crake]

Examining counts as interacting, so if you take your time and study each feature of the room you can get a save vs. the illusions.

Can you direct me to where exactly in the rules it says that? My DM would want to see.


You need:

Level 3: Shivering Touch (Frostburn p. 104)

Level 4: Chains of Vengenge (Book of Eldritch might 1 p. 16)

These are epically powerful, some might even say broken. I say an absolut need!!! Hope this helps!

Neither of which are core, so they require DM approval, followed by research (which is required *before* the DM says if its allowed or not, ie successful or failed research). If they're as overpowered as you say, he'll probably say no.

[Annos]

Eberron has some pretty sweat ARTIFACT SPELLS:smallbiggrin:, that might be of use to you:smallwink:

[Melcar]

That is ofc your choice. We use what we can find. But every spell in our game need research, so nothing special there. Further, since my wizard uses 50% of his waking hour in any library, tempel, acadamy, and so forth, that he can find. It means that whatever I read IRL in the scource books(about lore and spells and such), my wizard have stupled upon ingame. With some few exceptions...

It works in our game!

[ericgrau]

Can you direct me to where exactly in the rules it says that? My DM would want to see.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#illusion

Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.
This rule is also found in the Player's Handbook in the Magic Overview in the Illusion section. The magic overview is right before the list of spells at the end.

IMO that involves at least a round on looking at an object to note its details, but in the end defining "study it carefully" is up to your DM. The only interpretation that would really bother me would be one where it's impractical to ever do it.

[Crake]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#illusion

This rule is also found in the Player's Handbook in the Magic Overview in the Illusion section. The magic overview is right before the list of spells at the end.

IMO that involves at least a round on looking at an object to note its details, but in the end defining "study it carefully" is up to your DM. The only interpretation that would really bother me would be one where it's impractical to ever do it.

Hmm, it's good to note, I usually say I take a minute or so to inspect a room with my arcane eye whenever the DM reads out an elaborate description. The one time we ran into an illusion the illusion made the situation seem somewhat dire and the paladin broke my concentration and made us all hurry to its aid, so I never got a chance to study the room carefully.

[ericgrau]

Well do note I mean a round for each object, and that's just IMO. An entire room might have 20 squares and perhaps more than 1 item in a square. To carefully an examine an entire room from top to bottom might take 5 to 20 minutes. Up to him, but a minute is a little quick unless there's only 1 major object in the room to look at and that object is the illusion (rather than a more subtle illusion off to the side).

[Crake]

Well do note I mean a round for each object, and that's just IMO. An entire room might have 20 squares and perhaps more than 1 item in a square. To carefully an examine an entire room from top to bottom might take 5 to 20 minutes. Up to him, but a minute is a little quick unless there's only 1 major object in the room to look at and that object is the illusion (rather than a more subtle illusion off to the side).

Well, in this case, it was pretty much the entire room. To be fair, I'm pretty sure I should have gotten a save from the simple fact that there was reasonable reason to doubt the room's authenticity considering it had a "sky". But in the paladin's haste, I suppose I never really got a chance.