Eldritch Blast/ Warmage edge

[barna10]

Since Eldritch Blast is considered a 1st level spell, does Warmage edge add damage to it? If not, why not?

[Studoku]

The bonus from the warmage edge special ability applies only to spells that he casts as a warmage, not to those he might have by virtue of levels in another class.
So no, it doesn't.

[Kelb_Panthera]

^that, and eldritch blast doesn't count as a spell at all. It's a spell-like ability with an effective spell-level of 1.

[barna10]

^that, and eldritch blast doesn't count as a spell at all. It's a spell-like ability with an effective spell-level of 1.

Not true. From Complete Arcane Errata: "An eldritch blast is the equivalent
of a 1st-level spell."

I see the problem, I was reading Warmage out of Minatures Handbook, it doesn't include the exclusion. Thanks.

[barna10]

Further, the errata states: "Any other references to eldritch blast being something other than the equivalent of a 1st-level spell should be
disregarded."

[Kelb_Panthera]

Not true. From Complete Arcane Errata: "An eldritch blast is the equivalent
of a 1st-level spell."

I see the problem, I was reading Warmage out of Minatures Handbook, it doesn't include the exclusion. Thanks.

A) that's in the errata, not the book. The book has it as equivalent to a spell of half your warlock level; minimum 1, maximum 9.

B) it's equivalent to a 1st level spell in the same way that all spell-likes are equivalent to a spell of a given level for adjudication purposes such as interacting with globes of invulnerability or rods of absorption or the like. It's still a spell-like ability, not a spell.

[Averis Vol]

I think the important point of this is regardless if its a first level spell or not, your still casting it as a warlock, not a warmage.

[Snowbluff]

It works if you are an Eldritch Theurge, though. Spellweaving FTW.

[barna10]

A) that's in the errata, not the book. The book has it as equivalent to a spell of half your warlock level; minimum 1, maximum 9.

Sooooo, the corrected version is not the right version? Your argument makes no sense.

Where the equivalency begins and ends is a matter of debate, not solvable here.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Sooooo, the corrected version is not the right version? Your argument makes no sense.

Where the equivalency begins and ends is a matter of debate, not solvable here.

There's no debate. Spell-likes aren't spells. This is plainly stated in numerous places in several books. Including complete arcane on page 130.
.... these special abilities are spell-like abilities, not spells.

Eldritch blast is an invocation, and therefore a spell-like ability, not a spell.

The comment about your quote being from the errata is a bit of pedantry on my part. It is, of course, correct, but it doesn't actually change anything except to say that the eldritch blast is flatly equivalent to a first level spell effect instead of having its effective level being dependent on your warlock level.

[barna10]

There's no debate. Spell-likes aren't spells. This is plainly stated in numerous places in several books. Including complete arcane on page 130.

Eldritch blast is an invocation, and therefore a spell-like ability, not a spell.

First, not all spell-likes are cut from the same cloth. For instance, a Factotum's SLAs can be modified with normal MM feats whereas most others cannot. So saying there's one set of rules that apply to SLAs is incorrect.


The comment about your quote being from the errata is a bit of pedantry on my part. It is, of course, correct, but it doesn't actually change anything except to say that the eldritch blast is flatly equivalent to a first level spell effect instead of having its effective level being dependent on your warlock level.

Secondly, this is not what the errata says. You are adding extra language to suit your interpretation. It even says "Any other references to eldritch blast being something other than the equivalent of a 1st-level spell should be disregarded. Any other references claiming that eldritch blast is not an invocation should be disregarded." It is simple and clear. Is is both an invocation and the equivalent of a 1st level spell. There's nothing else to add.

[Kelb_Panthera]

First, not all spell-likes are cut from the same cloth. For instance, a Factotum's SLAs can be modified with normal MM feats whereas most others cannot. So saying there's one set of rules that apply to SLAs is incorrect.



Secondly, this is not what the errata says. You are adding extra language to suit your interpretation. It even says "Any other references to eldritch blast being something other than the equivalent of a 1st-level spell should be disregarded. Any other references claiming that eldritch blast is not an invocation should be disregarded." It is simple and clear. Is is both an invocation and the equivalent of a 1st level spell. There's nothing else to add.

I didn't add anything. I didn't make a quote on the errata. It's equivalent to a first level spell in the same way that any other invocation or spell-like ability is equivalent to a first level spell. All spell-likes have to have a level equivalent to function, since a level equivalent is necessary to adjudicate the things I mentioned above, since there are numerous spells that could interact with them depending on their level equivalent and they can be dispelled if they don't have an instantaneous duration.

And yes, all spell-like abilities do follow the general rules for spell-like abilities unless a specific rule changes them. In the case of warlocks, their spell-likes are called invocations and have somatic components, but otherwise function just like any other spell-like. The factotum's arcane dilletante class feature allows them to prepare spells but treats them as spell-likes at the time of casting. They can be prepared with metamagic effects because the entry explicitly says so. If the clause on prep'ing them with metamagicks wasn't there then you couldn't do that because you can't apply metamagicks to spell-likes.

"Equivalent to a first level spell" isn't the same as "counts as a first level spell in all regards." It's the same language used when describing the effective spell level of nearly all spell-like abilities, including all of the other invocations in the same book.

[barna10]

"Equivalent to a first level spell" isn't the same as "counts as a first level spell in all regards." It's the same language used when describing the effective spell level of nearly all spell-like abilities, including all of the other invocations in the same book.

Sorry, but no. Please point out an exact reference to the same language being used. Under Invocation descriptions, Level Equivalent in CA it states:

"On the same line as the grade, each of the following invocation descriptions contains a spell level equivalent, which affects the save DC for that invocation, Concentration checks made in concert with the invocation, as well as interactions with other spells and abilities, such as globe of invulnerability. The level equivalent of an invocation is provided after its grade."

Nowhere does it state that invocations are the equivalent of "spells", only that they have a "spell level equivalent".

So, show me a reference for your argument since obviously it isn't the way it's worded in every case. (The Player's Handbook also lacks this language).

[Kelb_Panthera]

Sorry, but no. Please point out an exact reference to the same language being used. Under Invocation descriptions, Level Equivalent in CA it states:

"On the same line as the grade, each of the following invocation descriptions contains a spell level equivalent, which affects the save DC for that invocation, Concentration checks made in concert with the invocation, as well as interactions with other spells and abilities, such as globe of invulnerability. The level equivalent of an invocation is provided after its grade."

Nowhere does it state that invocations are the equivalent of "spells", only that they have a "spell level equivalent".

So, show me a reference for your argument since obviously it isn't the way it's worded in every case. (The Player's Handbook also lacks this language).

I don't have to, you just did.

Why would you assume that "equivalent" meant something different in relation to eldritch blast than it does to all the other invocations?

[barna10]

I don't have to, you just did.

Why would you assume that "equivalent" meant something different in relation to eldritch blast than it does to all the other invocations?

Here we go again, the errata:
"Any other references to eldritch blast being something other than the equivalent of a 1st-level spell should be disregarded.
Any other references claiming that eldritch blast is not an invocation should be disregarded."

Clearly Eldritch Blast is singled out as being the equivalent of a spell AND an invocation. Why not just state it is an invocation with a level equivalent of 1? That wording would be in line with other invocations. No, for some reason it is singled out and defined differently. Argue with the designers and editors, not me.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Here we go again, the errata:
"Any other references to eldritch blast being something other than the equivalent of a 1st-level spell should be disregarded.
Any other references claiming that eldritch blast is not an invocation should be disregarded."

Clearly Eldritch Blast is singled out as being the equivalent of a spell AND an invocation. Why not just state it is an invocation with a level equivalent of 1? That wording would be in line with other invocations. No, for some reason it is singled out and defined differently. Argue with the designers and editors, not me.

I'm arguing with you because you're taking "equivalent to an X level spell" in two places, but the same context, as having two different meanings when there's no reason to make such an assumption.

[nedz]

The Errata just replaces paragraph 2 of the Eldritch Blast section on page 7 of CArc. Paragraph 3, which follows, states that you cannot apply metamagic because its a spell like ability, not a spell.

CArc page 13 Warmage Edge
This clearly states that this only applies to spells that he casts as a warmage.
Now EB is neither a spell, nor castable by a Warmage.