multiping damage

[Stauffie]

Hey guys and girls

I think i got this right, but I'm not a hundred percent sure, and my DM disagrees with me.

It is about multipling damage (hence the title :p) when i score a hit with my charging mounted halfling lvl 6 paladin with a lance, the spirited charge feat and 15 str

My question was what modifiers/extra damage is multiplied.

According to me the normal damage of 1d6 +2 are tripled to 3d6 +6, or 1d6 +3 and 3d6 +9 when using both hands
According to my DM, str damage is not multiplied.

I also wonder what happens when i smite evil... that's 6 extra damage that i think get tripled as well.
And I also have power attack... :p

[Kelb_Panthera]

Hey guys and girls

I think i got this right, but I'm not a hundred percent sure, and my DM disagrees with me.

It is about multipling damage (hence the title :p) when i score a hit with my charging mounted halfling lvl 6 paladin with a lance, the spirited charge feat and 15 str

My question was what modifiers/extra damage is multiplied.

According to me the normal damage of 1d6 +2 are tripled to 3d6 +6, or 1d6 +3 and 3d6 +9 when using both hands
According to my DM, str damage is not multiplied.

I also wonder what happens when i smite evil... that's 6 extra damage that i think get tripled as well.
And I also have power attack... :p

All static damage numbers are multiplied; Str, weapon enhancement value, the 5 points of damage from a collision weapon, the extra damage from a successful smite attempt, etc.

It's not multiplied if it's expressed as dice of damage; sneak attack, the fire or cold damage from a flaming or frosty weapon, the holy damage from a holy weapon, etc.

[Morcleon]

All static damage numbers are multiplied; Str, weapon enhancement value, the 5 points of damage from a collision weapon, the extra damage from a successful smite attempt, etc.

It's not multiplied if it's expressed as dice of damage; sneak attack, the fire or cold damage from a flaming or frosty weapon, the holy damage from a holy weapon, etc.

The base damage dice from the weapon itself would also be multiplied, yes? :smallsmile:

[Kumori]

The base damage dice from the weapon itself would also be multiplied, yes? :smallsmile:

Yes, it would:


Multiplying Damage

Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results. Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage.

Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied.

The base damage of the weapon, as well as all damage that is not expressed as a number of dice, is multiplied.

[Artillery]

The way lance damage for charge works is just like with a crit.

The feat you have ups your dmg with lance to x3 when you charge.
Your base damage with the lance is
1d6+2.
Charging you do
(1d6+2)*3
If you crit during your spirited charge its
((1d6+2)*3)+((1d6+2)*2) aka 5d6 + 10

How multipliers work is the first one is the full amount
ex. Crit for x3
for the second multiplier you subtract one and add it to the first
ex charge for x3 when added to crit is x5

That's brutal on a critical and is as good as a normal critical in a regular charge.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The way lance damage for charge works is just like with a crit.

The feat you have ups your dmg with lance to x3 when you charge.
Your base damage with the lance is
1d6+2.
Charging you do
(1d6+2)*3
If you crit during your spirited charge its
((1d6+2)*3)+((1d6+2)*2) aka 5d6 + 10

How multipliers work is the first one is the full amount
ex. Crit for x3
for the second multiplier you subtract one and add it to the first
ex charge for x3 when added to crit is x5

That's brutal on a critical and is as good as a normal critical in a regular charge.

That's not how you stack multipliers. The figure for a combined X3 and X2 is X4, not X5.

Otherwise that's correct.

Multipliers add +100% damage for each *X after the first. eg. X2 adds an extra 100%, X3 adds an extra 200%, and so-on. I believe this was clarified in the FAQ.

[Kumori]

The way lance damage for charge works is just like with a crit.

The feat you have ups your dmg with lance to x3 when you charge.
Your base damage with the lance is
1d6+2.
Charging you do
(1d6+2)*3
If you crit during your spirited charge its
((1d6+2)*3)+((1d6+2)*2) aka 5d6 + 10

How multipliers work is the first one is the full amount
ex. Crit for x3
for the second multiplier you subtract one and add it to the first
ex charge for x3 when added to crit is x5

That's brutal on a critical and is as good as a normal critical in a regular charge.

This is correct, though the math is a little simpler if you arrange it like this:

(1d6+2)*(3+2)

The 3+2 part is the multipliers being added together after the second multiplier is reduced by one, as Artillery says you are supposed to do.

Edit: For some reason, I thought that we were multiply by 3 twice... With it being x2x3, as Kelb made it clear that we are, it'd be (1d6+2)*(3+1).

[Artillery]

This is correct, though the math is a little simpler if you arrange it like this:

(1d6+2)*(3+2)

The 3+2 part is the multipliers being added together after the second multiplier is reduced by one, as Artillery says you are supposed to do.

Edit: For some reason, I thought that we were multiply by 3 twice... With it being x2x3, as Kelb made it clear that we are, it'd be (1d6+2)*(3+1).

I think we are agreeing, but Kelb is forgetting spirited charge.


Multiplying
Sometimes a rule makes you multiply a number or a die roll. As long as you’re applying a single multiplier, multiply the number normally. When two or more multipliers apply to any abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll), however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (×2) and a double (×2) applied to the same number results in a triple (×3, because 2 + 1 = 3).


Spirited Charge
Benefit
When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).

A Lance is a x3 crit. A Spirited Charge is a charge that increase regular weapon damage to x2 on a charge and a lance damage to x3 on a charge.

Its x5 for a Lance crit with Spirited Charge according to RAW.

Sources
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#multiplying
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Lance
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Spirited_Charge

[Kumori]

I think we are agreeing, but Kelb is forgetting spirited charge.




A Lance is a x3 crit. A Spirited Charge is a charge that increase regular weapon damage to x2 on a charge and a lance damage to x3 on a charge.

Its x5 for a Lance crit with Spirited Charge according to RAW.

Sources
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#multiplying
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Lance
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Spirited_Charge

Oh, ok. Now we're all on the same page. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Artillery]

While on the topic of lance craziness. Thunder Lance from Spell Compendium. Lvl 4 wizard/sorcerer spell


When you cast this spell, you create a deadly lance of force. You can freely make a Thunderlance retract or grow to any length from 1 foot to 20 feet, but it always remains a straight lance of force. This effect gives you a natural reach of 20 feet. You can use a Thunderlance to make powerful melee attacks.

You can wield a Thunderlance in one or two
hands, dealing a base 3d6 points of damage (crit 20/×3). Instead of using your Strength modifier, you use the higher of your Intelligence modifer or Charisma modifier as a bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls.

Can a Thunderlance be used as a lance on a mounted charge. Can you make AOO with a Thunderlance or other weapon like spells.

[Kelb_Panthera]

While on the topic of lance craziness. Thunder Lance from Spell Compendium. Lvl 4 wizard/sorcerer spell



Can a Thunderlance be used as a lance on a mounted charge. Can you make AOO with a Thunderlance or other weapon like spells.

A thunderlance is not a lance, it's a spell effect. If the duration is greater than just your turn then you can use it to make AoO's just fine since it's being wielded as a weapon, even though it's not a weapon.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I think we are agreeing, but Kelb is forgetting spirited charge.




A Lance is a x3 crit. A Spirited Charge is a charge that increase regular weapon damage to x2 on a charge and a lance damage to x3 on a charge.

Its x5 for a Lance crit with Spirited Charge according to RAW.

Sources
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#multiplying
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Lance
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Spirited_Charge

I did indeed forget spirited charge. With its inclusion the math I "corrected" was right all along. My bad. :smalltongue: