Iaijutsu Katana Chucker questions

[Biotroll]

Hello playground. :smallsmile: I was bored lately and stumbled on Iaijutsu Katana Chucker build found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134276).

I like it and decided to try it out next time I get to play. However I got few questions too and old thread is closed. So here it goes:

1) How useful is Bloodstorm Blade to the build? Blood Wind Ricochet is meh at best imo, Lightning Ricochet is nice, but not really needed and to use Thunderous Throw to treat ranged attacks as melee is really great but eats a swift action which you will be using on Belt of Battle to get more attacks in your first round when everyone is flat footed. So, appart from Throw Anything feat, does it give you anything or have I missed something? (I am aware of Martial Throw, but you won't really be using strikes on first round either as you want as many attack as you can and not only one, right?)

2)Choco himself pointed out the problem of when is enemy considered flat footed and when not. Is there some RAW answer for this part and if not, what is mostly accepted version?

Any answers wellcomed.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

1) Without Bloodstorm Blade, the build has no synergy and may as well not even exist. You're treating it as though you have to use everything it offers all the time, but that's not the case; use whichever ability you have that is most appropriate.
- Surprise round? Use the Belt of Battle instead of Thunderous Throw.
- Opponent is already flat-footed? Full attack.
- Opponent isn't flat-footed? Martial Throw with Sapphire Nightmare Blade, then do a regular attack the next round as they'll be flat-footed, and recover Sapphire Nightmare Blade. Repeat that process every two rounds.

2) Only conditions which specifically say that the opponent is considered flat-footed will enable Iaijutsu Focus. Flat-footed itself causes no Dex bonus to AC, no Dex bonus to AC does not cause Flat-Footed. Any other effects that cause no Dex bonus to AC are not automatically Flat-Footed and don't count. Even if an opponent has (Improved) Uncanny Dodge and retains his Dex bonus to AC when Flat-Footed, he's still Flat-Footed and IF will work. Again, only abilities and effects that specifically state that they make a creature Flat-Footed will count for enabling Iaijutsu Focus.

I'd prefer to use IF from melee due to the Balance skill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/balance.htm)'s built-in flat-footed condition for anyone with fewer than five ranks (which almost nothing ever has). Get some marbles, found in the Arms and Equipment Guide, wrap a bunch of them in a folded piece of cloth, and tie it to your belt so it's readied as a weaponlike object. You can then quick-draw it and drop it into the opponent's square as a free action, the folded cloth will spill the marbles in the area they're standing and they'll be Balancing per the Balance skill. You've just made an adjacent opponent flat-footed with free actions. You can now full-attack with your Gnome Quickrazors and win.

[Snowbluff]

...

Bifu, what happens if the DM decides that the targets just fall over?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

...

Bifu, what happens if the DM decides that the targets just fall over?

They'll be prone on top of the marbles, so as long as the marbles can still roll beneath the opponent he'll still be balancing and thus flat-footed.

Most Gnome Quickrazor IF builds are able to include the Hidden Blade skill trick and the Flick of the Wrist feat, then there's Sapphire Nightmare Blade, so you'll still have plenty of ways to make your opponent considered flat-footed to get IF damage.

[Flickerdart]

...

Bifu, what happens if the DM decides that the targets just fall over?
Then you have an extremely easy way to trip everything in the game without Balance ranks for free.

[Snowbluff]

Prone is better than decapitated.

If you are on the ground, I don't think the marbles would work any longer. You can't exactly balance while you are not able to fall over, so you are not flat footed. Hell, the target could just hold still. there is probably even a way for someone to just move off of them with out falling over.

EDIT: I hope you are in the target's square when you drop your marbles. Where does it say you can drop an item in any other direction than down? This is a nitpick, tumble will cover this for you.

[TopCheese]

Prone is better than decapitated.

If you are on the ground, I don't think the marbles would work any longer. You can't exactly balance while you are not able to fall over, so you are not flat footed. Hell, the target could just hold still. there is probably even a way for someone to just move off of them with out falling over.

EDIT: I hope you are in the target's square when you drop your marbles. Where does it say you can drop an item in any other direction than down? This is a nitpick, tumble will cover this for you.

Well... Can you choose to critical fail a thrown item? You are throwing the item to your feat but crit failing.. Thus it lands in a random square around you... But you are also directing it...
Hmmmm

Also what sort of stupid rules would it be to put marbles under your own feet?

Actually I should ask the playground to help me make a build that utilizes throwing marbles at my own feet....

I'm sure they would find something :p

[Snowbluff]

Throwing it would be a standard action, dropping it is a free action.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Just to clear this up:
Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#dropanItem)

[Snowbluff]

That's better.

[LTwerewolf]

Prone is better than decapitated.

If you are on the ground, I don't think the marbles would work any longer. You can't exactly balance while you are not able to fall over, so you are not flat footed. Hell, the target could just hold still. there is probably even a way for someone to just move off of them with out falling over..

Not exactly. If you're prone, you're still unable to properly defend yourself. It Isn't specified, thus is not RAW, but being flat on your back should be considered even worse than flat footed (and counted as flat footed).

[Snowbluff]

Not exactly. If you're prone, you're still unable to properly defend yourself. It Isn't specified, thus is not RAW, but being flat on your back should be considered even worse than flat footed (and counted as flat footed).

Prone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#prone) is a -4 to attack, +4 AC versus ranged, -4 AC versus Melee. Also, people with the Sloth Domain take not penalties, IIRC.

Flat Footed is when you have NO ability to defend yourself or perceive the target (like an ambush or paying too much attention to ice or marbles).

[LTwerewolf]

I'm aware of what it does, that doesn't change what i previously stated.

[Snowbluff]

I'm aware of what it does, that doesn't change what i previously stated.

I've done wrestling and jijutsu, and I can tell you being on the ground is better than being clubbed in the head while not paying attention.

[LTwerewolf]

I've done wrestling and jijutsu, and I can tell you being on the ground is better than being clubbed in the head while not paying attention.

I've done socp and close quarters defense, and I can tell you being on your back is every bit as bad as being distracted by something when your opponent has a weapon.

[Snowbluff]

I've done socp and close quarters defense, and I can tell you being on your back is every bit as bad as being distracted by something when your opponent has a weapon.

What you just describe is more akin to being flanked, as in being threatened from multiple opponents, which is something else entirely.

Flat footed is when you are walking through a park sipping soda when an assailant runs up and gets a clean shot while you have no thought paid to defending yourself.

[Biotroll]

1) Without Bloodstorm Blade, the build has no synergy and may as well not even exist. You're treating it as though you have to use everything it offers all the time, but that's not the case; use whichever ability you have that is most appropriate.
- Surprise round? Use the Belt of Battle instead of Thunderous Throw.
- Opponent is already flat-footed? Full attack.
- Opponent isn't flat-footed? Martial Throw with Sapphire Nightmare Blade, then do a regular attack the next round as they'll be flat-footed, and recover Sapphire Nightmare Blade. Repeat that process every two rounds.


I know you don't have to use everything all the time, but I don't see why should I stay 5 levels in this class. I could understand 2, maybe 4 because returning for free is nice, but why couldn't you just take the Throw Anything feat and instead of taking levels in Bloodstorm Blade take levels in whatever else, say warblade for more (and higher level) strikes? You could still throw katanas around with IF. And if DM said that IF can be used only withing melee, you would have to use Thunderous Throw all the time anyway, so Belt of Battle looses it's attractivity (and then, you can still only stay for 3 levels in the class).

I'm sorry if this sounds stupid, but I still can't somehow grasp why is it so important to take the class or why you should take so many levels in the class.

[Darius Kane]

I'm sorry if this sounds stupid, but I still can't somehow grasp why is it so important to take the class or why you should take so many levels in the class.
Because it's awesome and doesn't hurt to take it?