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Khosan
2012-11-15, 01:55 AM
So, I've got a problem. In the campaign I'm playing in currently, my character, a Ratfolk Wizard, recently gained the trust and loyalty of 234 other Ratfolk by releasing them from the prison they'd been trapped in and then saving them again from an ancient, evil undead warlord. This was pretty much set up in advance, I'd told the DM at the start of the campaign that I'd like to pick up Leadership, but specifically made the deal that none of them would see combat, they'd be there specifically for crafting and plot stuff.

What I'm worrying about now, is how to protect my followers. My DM has pretty much told me that, of the...5 and a half villains currently faffing about in some form or another, all but one of them have something against me specifically. I fully expect an attack on my Warren during the next session. So I'm working, specifically on the structural breakdown of my followers and how they work.

There are a couple special conditions I've been given by my DM. For one, I'm allowed to stat out the followers as level 1s, even though I don't have Leadership, nor do I even have anywhere close to a Leadership Score that would give me that many followers. Second, all but a few of my rats are using the standard array (a few get the elite array, because I specifically asked and it was appropriate) for ability scores. Finally, I've been allowed to pick up a few Goblin-specific feats (specific example: Lead from the Back (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/lead-from-the-back-combat-goblin)) for them, again, where appropriate. My DMs being really cooperative on this, which is nice. I need to ask for a couple more things, but I'd say don't assume any more fudging will happen past what I just mentioned.

Anyway, what I have so far is that 144 of my 234 Ratfolk are dedicated purely to defense. 12 squads of 12 rats each, with each squad rotating duties in 12 hour shifts (so 6 squads on duty at any given time, 2 more awake but not on duty). Each squad is composed of the following:

One Captain (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=470524) (Ratfolk Cavaliers, Elite Array)
One Healer (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=470534) (Ratfolk Cleric)
One Support (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=470562) (Ratfolk Cleric, needs work)
5 Soldiers (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=470579) (Ratfolk Vivisectionist Alchemists)
4 Demolitionists (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=470600) (Ratfolk Mindchemist Alchemists)

After that I have 10 Wizards (one of whom will be my Cohort) who specialize in crafting and 15 Rangers with the Trophy Hunter archetype whose primary purpose is hunting for food. The other 65 rats are all the equivalents of Experts or Commoners and can't meaningfully contribute to combat.

The Support needs work. I could have it channel negative energy then put the 13 in Charisma and take Selective Channeling, but I don't think I need more damage. More healing applied across around 72 individuals is nicer. Might take Spell Focus: Enchantment to get the DC on Sleep up a bit.

I'm happy with most of the others, though I do think I could add some more diversity. Right now I have a lot riding on the Alchemists who can be a little one-shot wondery as is (Soldiers are really effective for 1 minute, then pretty good for 9 more after that, Demolitionists are good for 5 bombs only) while other classes might have more staying power I'm not entirely sure how much that gets me.

A couple ideas I've got are swapping something to a Druid, mostly for Entangle, but an Animal Companion would help too. A Bard would also be helpful for Inspire Courage, which works better than the Cavalier's Challenge for providing group buffs, also gives me access to Fascinate, which could be powerful if used correctly.

Any other takes on this? Or suggestions? I'm extremely open to suggestions.

Khosan
2012-11-15, 05:10 PM
New development since I got the opportunity to ask my DM about it:

I can take the Fire Bomber Archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-goblin/fire-bomber-alchemist-goblin) for my Demolitionists in spite of it being Goblin only.

Been browsing around more, and I might be able to add in a Freebooter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/freebooter) Ranger. That'd get me an untyped +1 bonus to attack rolls and weapon damage, but I'm not sure if I could swing a pirate rat in a group of cave-dwellers.

Also looking more into Druids, Bards and maybe Wizards. Druids would add Entangle and an Animal Companions. Bards would add Inspire Courage and Fascinate plus a couple spells, likely something like Grease and some out of combat utility. Wizards wouldn't add much except what Bards add, minus Bardic Performance, plus a Familiar.

Wise Green Bean
2012-11-15, 05:52 PM
Tucker's Kobolds. Emulate them.
http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/
Ah yeah.
Hit and run tactics, use the lay out of the warren to your advantage, death by a 1000 cuts, so on and so forth.
A stock pile of 100+ alchemist fires, acid vials, etc. Who has enough touch AC for that? Especially with +2 racial bonus to craft alchemy.
You have fragile minions, so I'd seriously question use of them in melee. Snipe, snipe, snipe. They're small, they can go places your enemies probably can't, run and hide as soon as they're spotted.
Don't ignore that +4 racial bonus to handle animal. That is tasty. You can build yourself an army on that.
And obviously, no light allowed in the warrens. You have darkvision and your enemies might not, use that. Another use of visibility that might work depending on DM's ruling of how darkvision works, stick one torch in the middle of an area, keep your ratfolk around 70-80 feet out. The torch provides 40 feet of visibility, your guys use their 60 feet of darkvision to see into the area. But even if the baddies have darkvision, it's only within 60 feet, and your guys are too far away. They can snipe without ever being seen. Again, that depends on whether darkvision is read to give vision in darkness within 60 feet, or give 60 feet of vision in darkness at any range. Could be read either way. "can see in the dark up to 60 feet" is the relevant statement.
You could cover areas with oil and light them on fire(if there's no way it could spread). And in that situation, you'd need to be very careful that the smoke wouldn't endanger your guys breathing.
You have wizards. Grease and GTFO, let archers do the rest.
Caltrops serve a similar purpose.

An important part of your strategy: is the warren above or below ground? If above, it's in danger of being smoked out. If below, it could fall prey to a decanter of endless water, you'd be drowned like, well, rats.

General logistics issue: hunting is a very difficult way to support a colony that size. Not sure about the math on supporting 234 ratfolk on 15 survival checks, even if they are trained rangers. I don't think it adds up, will check in a minute.
Yeah, that's a problem.
15 rangers providing for 234 ppl means must they’re supporting 15.6 people including themselves.
DC 10 survival check, you support one additional person for each two you exceed by.
10+15(2)= 40
Meaning you rangers must all make DC40 checks daily or else people starve. They probably have about a +7-8 modifier, +12 tops. So no go. Some of those commoners and experts better start farming some mushrooms.

Also, there's no real reason to restrict yourself to 12 rats. A few alarm spells can have to entire warren up in arms long before intruders arrive. Even commoners and experts armed with vials or light crossbows and fleeing as soon as they're noticed can contribute just fine. Itty bitty tunnels with itty bitty holes to snipe from are very nice. Nothing can get at them. If you have a change in line of sight right away, not even a fireball is going to reach them once they decide to escape.

Lastly, escape routes. Roughly a million would be nice. Lots of small, hidden tunnels to escape through if your enemy tells some hill giants to start jumping on the roof or some such.

Khosan
2012-11-15, 07:56 PM
General logistics issue: hunting is a very difficult way to support a colony that size. Not sure about the math on supporting 234 ratfolk on 15 survival checks, even if they are trained rangers. I don't think it adds up, will check in a minute.
Yeah, that's a problem.
15 rangers providing for 234 ppl means must they’re supporting 15.6 people including themselves.
DC 10 survival check, you support one additional person for each two you exceed by.
10+15(2)= 40
Meaning you rangers must all make DC40 checks daily or else people starve. They probably have about a +7-8 modifier, +12 tops. So no go. Some of those commoners and experts better start farming some mushrooms.

Yep, got some mushroom farmers going already, 30 of them. I didn't mention them since all they do is farm mushrooms. +7 to Profession (Mushroom Farmer) nets them 8.5 gold per farmer per week, or 255 gold per week, or 36.43 gold a day. In terms of meals (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/food-drink-lodging), that's enough to feed 364 rats with poor meals. I'll probably add more in the future (so I can bump them up to common and eventually even good meals), but that's a reasonably solid surplus for now.

EDIT: Also, could bump those up a bit with Guidance from some of the Clerics. Doesn't hurt the clerics to pop in to see the mushroom farmers twice a day to cast that on them.

The other 35 rats I didn't mention are 15 mundane crafters and 20 maintenance/service rats who move things, clean things, dig things and help in whatever other ways they can. There will definitely be more mundane crafters in the future, but that's all I can really afford for now.

I did read the other stuff, but I don't really have the time to address it. I will say that I thought it might be worth engaging in a straight fight since I have a serious numbers advantage, and the effects of some of the buffs I can put out are incredibly potent in such large numbers. I do see your point though about hit and runs, and I can take the Tunnel Rat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/tunnel-rat-ratfolk) Ratfolk feat to make that a pretty reasonable option. I just need to think about how I can put that into action.

Wise Green Bean
2012-11-16, 03:39 AM
Hm. They're what level and you're planning to defend against what?

Khosan
2012-11-16, 09:11 AM
Hm. They're what level and you're planning to defend against what?

For the moment? Unknown. DM hasn't dropped a lot of hints, except that a lot of people are angry at my character in particular.

Off the top of my head, I'm aware of the following:
The noble I rescued my ratfolk from
The head of the Mage's Guild
A nihilistic cult seeking the end of the world (not 100% on this one)
An ancient, evil, undead warlord (it's been hinted that it won't be him though)
That's not all the villains, but I'm not sure who the others might be. Reasons below:

The noble might already be dead, but considering I never saw a body or anything, I'm not willing to count him out. Nor am I willing to count out an angry relative of his. In any case, the reasons for why they'd want me dead are pretty obvious; I stole his property and a lot of it.

The head of the Mage's Guild and I have a longer history. The campaign started out with me in prison for practicing magic without a license. I struck a deal with him to get my license in exchange for stealing a report and bringing it to him before it got to the Inquisitors, the campaign world's 'secret police'. I didn't do that. I just got out of jail and buggered off on adventures. Further than that, an adventure some time later had us investigating and putting a stop to undead rising from a crypt. Investigation led to me finding a crate full of extremely powerful, extremely evil artifacts (I convinced a rat to grab one for me out of the crate; the rat ended up melting as soon as it touched one of the artifacts). Reported the crate to the authorities, handled the quest pretty peacefully afterwards. Turns out that crate belonged to the head of the Mage's Guild. He might not be aware of my role in all that, considering that when I returned to get my license legitimately, he told me I could only get it if I got that crate for him. Then, instead of doing that or paying 500 gold for the license, I went and got one illegally instead. Further, if he finds out that I'm supporting even more unlicensed Wizards, he's got even more reason to hate me.

The cult's our standard villain. We've got one of their former leaders 'working' for us (she was caught and her punishment has been to assist us, so she's basically a slave). I don't think they have much against me specifically, but they don't have a reason to not want me dead either.

The evil, ancient, undead warlord was considered a myth by the setting's standards, until he showed up in the equivalent of Vatican City with a horde of undead and started wrecking up the place. I'm not sure if he's really 'mad' at me, but I did end up outsmarting him. After saving my ratfolk from the noble, the warlord pretty much showed up in front of where we were being held. I saved everyone there by luring him further into the prison, letting him almost corner me, then casting Expeditious Retreat and sprinting past him to "victory." My swarm then proceeded to clean up pretty much all the remains of the undead horde after we got out into the clear. The warlord disappeared though, not sure where to. 'Hate' isn't entirely the right word in his case, but of the people he's encountered, I'm the one who got away.
I know I'm missing a villain or two somewhere, but those are the ones I know of or at least remember. I doubt we'll be dealing with many high level enemies, not just because the ratfolk are level 1 but because the party is only level 3.

That said, I don't think we're going to be dealing with anything like mid-level adventurer groups for a while, though planning for that would be a good idea. If there's an attack, I wouldn't expect much more than a whole heap of mooks with some higher levels sprinkled in, though I'm not entirely sure.

I wish I had some specifics, but I'm not nearly high enough level for divinations like that.

EDIT: And the rest of the party, since it's pretty relevant:

An Elven Ranger 3 (Favored Enemy: Dragons)
A Human Barbarian 3 (who's recently been attempting to pose as a noble)
A Human Fighter 3 (1000 experience ahead of the rest of us. He traded an age category for an extra level, he is also exceedingly rich)
A something Cleric 3 (LE, worships a LE deity)
A Human Alchemist 3 (Steve, the most astoundingly average man in the average land)
A Ratfolk Wizard 3 (Me! Admixture evocation specialist, with the intent to go Arcane Trickster)

And our "slave" is a Human Cleric 3 with the Merciful Healer archetype.

doko239
2012-11-16, 03:47 PM
Teamwork feats can be very useful for large numbers of soldiers.

In particular, these might help:

Pack Attack (Combat, Teamwork)

You are skilled at surrounding your enemies.

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: When you are adjacent to an ally with this feat, the first time you melee attack an opponent, you can spend an immediate action to take a 5-foot step, even if you have otherwise moved this round.

Shake It Off (Teamwork)

You support your allies and help them recover from crippling effects.

Benefit: When you are adjacent to one or more allies who also have this feat, you gain a +1 bonus on saving throws per such ally (maximum +4).

Stealth Synergy (Teamwork)

Working closely with an ally, you are able to move like twin shadows.

Benefit: While you can see one or more allies who also have this feat, whenever you and your allies make a Stealth check, you all take the highest roll and add all your modifiers to Stealth.

Lookout (Combat, Teamwork)

Your allies help you avoid being surprised.

Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, you may act in the surprise round as long as your ally would normally be able to act in the surprise round. If you would normally be denied the ability to act in the surprise round, your initiative is equal to your initiative roll or the roll of your ally –1, whichever is lower. If both you and your ally would be able to act in the surprise round without the aid of this feat, you may take both a standard and a move action (or a full-round action) during the surprise round.

If you're allowed higher-level officers, then a Ranger 3/Holy Tactician 3 planted with your archers could use the following feat:

Target of Opportunity (Combat, Teamwork)

You and your allies pelt your enemies with a deadly barrage of missiles.

Prerequisites: Point-Blank Shot, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: When an ally who also has this feat makes a ranged attack and hits an opponent within 30 feet of you, you can spend an immediate action to make a single ranged attack against that opponent. Your ranged weapon must be in hand, loaded, and ready to be fired or thrown for you to make the ranged attack.

Edit: nevermind the officer, didn't realize what level you are :smallbiggrin: still, something to think about for later levels