Wemics as player characters?

[grom the mighty]

So my DM has brought in another player to a 2ed sandbox we're running, which is all well and good, but there's something that's troubling me...

The two characters the new guy's debating playing are a Half-Ogre barbarian or a Wemic bard....
Now I have no problem with Half-Ogres, I've researched them before and they're not too overpowered (although than the fact they can sometimes be a little difficult to justify being in an adventuring party :smallfrown:)
For those of you who don't know, Wemics look like this:
http://crpp0001.uqtr.ca/w4/campagne/images/Guthmere/wemic_2ed.png
and can do this:
'Wemics are larger and stronger than humans; a wemic can leap up to 50 feet with a running start. Their front claws are sharp, and they can fight with both claws and weapons at the same time'
Does that not sound overpowered to you guys?
Let me know what you think, am I justified in my thinking, or just being close minded? :smallconfused:

P.S
This isn't the first time this has happened, we already have a pixie as a PC, and the special abilities and character scores it naturally has don't seem right to me..... http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Pixie
I'm worried this is going to become a trend in our games, with only me as a traditional (or at least non-overpowered) race :smalleek:

[PeglegJim]

I'd say you're justified in your thinking. Sure.

[grom the mighty]

thank you :smallsmile: i'm glad someone who plays this game is sane. unless is sarcasm? :smallconfused:

[LibraryOgre]

Wemics can be overpowering, but the Complete Humanoids version is pretty reasonable (so long as you don't use Monstrous Traits).

Have him take a look at the Skills and Powers version, however... it is VERY reasonable, without any of the stupid "Monstrous Traits".

Max Strength on the table is 17, so if their +1 to strength allows them an 18/xx, at best (and only an 18 flat, as a bard). The -1 to Dex is going to hit him, since there's not many armor options, and while he has natural weapons, they're only d4/d4... meaning he gets free dual-wielding of non-magical daggers, but that's about it. His only other ability is an at-will Jump spell (essentially), which is nice, but hardly overwhelming.

Meanwhile, he's going to be a freak in normal lands. I very much like wemics, however, so I tend to be biased. You might also look into the old video game, "Stone Prophet"; there was a wemic NPC there (along with a Jackalwere, an undead paladin, and a troll), along with some armor for him.

[grom the mighty]

Thanks for the extra information on wemics, I really appreciate it. It's no longer an issue now though as the new guy's chosen a Minotaur instead :)

[PJ Garrison]

Some people like to play really oddball, unbalanced races. This is more of an issue with the 3E, 4E, and WoW generation, where such things were encouraged, but the "Complete Humanoids" book in 2E opened up a lot of doors that should not have been opened.

Of course that's just my opinion. :smallbiggrin:

As a DM I've never allowed non-PHB races. I've seen it happen before and it just ends up with players picking the most powerful races (except for women players, who tend to pick the most "special" races).

Game balance goes to hell, and plausibility goes right out the window.

In my older, crankier years I've actually gone the other direction, getting rid of even the PHB races (elves, dwarves, halflings, orcs), because i'm tired of seeing humans pushed out of the spotlight, and because i'm sick of playing with races taken from Tolkien.

So yeah, I'm not feeling the wemic love.

[grom the mighty]

Of course that's just my opinion. :smallbiggrin:
And I totally agree

I think there's room for more interesting races that don't just rip off Tolkien like the non-human PHB races do, but I don't believe wemics and similar (overpowered) races should be a common occurrence.

[LibraryOgre]

For me, it tends to come down to setting. In a Dragonlance game, for example, a minotaur is pretty standard. If you're playing in the setting of Quest for Glory, playing a wemic (liontaur, as the game calls them) isn't unusual, but a full elf is something of a power grab.

Yes, there's a lot of folks who want to be the special snowflake. But oddball races are only oddball if the world makes them so.

[grom the mighty]

Oddball races are only oddball if the world makes them so.

Hmm, I didn't think of it that way....

And the sandbox scenario we're running does kind of make sense to have different creatures that aren't commonplace journeying to the area it's set in....
Minotaurs and other alternative characters are fine i guess, but I still think that wemics are a little TOO oddball for the situation (the situation being that we're in a very small isolated town surrounded by marshland and forests, infested with evil monsters). Lion people don't stand out to me as a sensible choice for an area like that :smallconfused:

[awa]

if i recal corectly being size large was a huge disadvantage in second eddtion becuase of the way weapons dealt damge. ontop of that magic items dont resize and their are no magic marts so aquiring gear will be a huge hassle.

Unless your playing with combat and tactics no attacks of opportunity means no benifit from reach.

[LibraryOgre]

Hmm, I didn't think of it that way....

And the sandbox scenario we're running does kind of make sense to have different creatures that aren't commonplace journeying to the area it's set in....
Minotaurs and other alternative characters are fine i guess, but I still think that wemics are a little TOO oddball for the situation (the situation being that we're in a very small isolated town surrounded by marshland and forests, infested with evil monsters). Lion people don't stand out to me as a sensible choice for an area like that :smallconfused:

No, something like that, you're unlikely to see much in the way of liontaurs. Of course, you're also not likely to see much in the way of dwarves (remember, folks... short and muscular means DENSE, in the "I am going to drown if this water gets above my head" sense). Though, the first Quest for Glory game was set in a very isolated town, surrounded by mountains and forests, and included Cheetaurs... all-black, panther-like versions of liontaurs (though with no indication of intelligence).


if i recal corectly being size large was a huge disadvantage in second eddtion becuase of the way weapons dealt damge. ontop of that magic items dont resize and their are no magic marts so aquiring gear will be a huge hassle.

Unless your playing with combat and tactics no attacks of opportunity means no benifit from reach.

In 2e, there are some weapons that will do less against big creatures, some that will do more. Magic items generally resize, but the problem is that they don't reshape... this is specifically mentioned in the S&P version of the wemic. So, while a wemic would be able to wear rings, necklaces, and cloaks, they'd have trouble with boots or armor.

[grom the mighty]

To be fair, dwarves are there occasionally since there's mountains about 2 weeks walk away. But apart from that everyone's made a reasonable amount of sense (other than the pixie)

[JustPlayItLoud]

Ugh, I hate wemics. I hate them so much. I have no idea, but the very idea makes me angry. One of the best things Dark Sun did was kill them off entirely.

That said, they aren't really that powerful. After a few levels their unique abilities will have ceased to be remarkable in any way. Plus they'll be taking more damage from many weapons (come one, how common is the long sword or bastard sword? Everybody uses one), have difficulty wearing armor, and they'll definitely need to be facing some social setbacks.

P.S.: Might just be me, but your wemic image will absolutely not load, nor will the source page. Might want to find an alternate.

[grom the mighty]

Ugh, I hate wemics. I hate them so much. I have no idea, but the very idea makes me angry. One of the best things Dark Sun did was kill them off entirely.

That said, they aren't really that powerful. After a few levels their unique abilities will have ceased to be remarkable in any way. Plus they'll be taking more damage from many weapons (come one, how common is the long sword or bastard sword? Everybody uses one), have difficulty wearing armor, and they'll definitely need to be facing some social setbacks.

P.S.: Might just be me, but your Wemic image will absolutely not load, nor will the source page. Might want to find an alternate.

I guess they're not that overpowered when you think about it, especially with the speed we've been leveling at...
Although it's more that it doesn't feel right to have anything so... unusual in this particular area. In a Savannah of some kind, I'd agree with a lion man turning up,l but not in a mountainous, heavily forested region in the middle of nowhere :smallannoyed:

[Gadora]

P.S
This isn't the first time this has happened, we already have a pixie as a PC, and the special abilities and character scores it naturally has don't seem right to me..... http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Pixie
I'm worried this is going to become a trend in our games, with only me as a traditional (or at least non-overpowered) race :smalleek:

Slightly off topic, but the reason those stats look off to you probably has something to do with the fact that you linked to their 3.5e stats. I've got no idea where you'd look for player-side stats for 2e, but I'd wager that what the player's using would look a little more familiar.

[grom the mighty]

Slightly off topic, but the reason those stats look off to you probably has something to do with the fact that you linked to their 3.5e stats. I've got no idea where you'd look for player-side stats for 2e, but I'd wager that what the player's using would look a little more familiar.

Those aren't the ones we're using in game, but they're fairly similar.
It's not the stats, but the extra abilities they have that don't seem fair, such as:

Polymorph at will
Turn invisible at will
Confuse at will
Fly
:smallfrown:

[hamlet]

My solution for Wemics is very simple.

The first town they walk into that isn't used to monsters being good guys will shout "it's a monster! Kill it kill it kill it!" and there'll be torches and pitchforks . . .

But, yeah, the Powers version of them is a little more tame, which is about the only nice thing I'll say about those books.

[grom the mighty]

My solution for Wemics is very simple.

The first town they walk into that isn't used to monsters being good guys will shout "it's a monster! Kill it kill it kill it!" and there'll be torches and pitchforks . . .

But, yeah, the Powers version of them is a little more tame, which is about the only nice thing I'll say about those books.

I don't think my DM's as men as that.... he bends rules against us in other ways, but the wemic was his idea, so i'm afraid that wouldn't happen :smallannoyed:

[Alejandro]

I absolutely must post in this thread.

Long ago, in a game far far away, we had a player who wanted to play a wemic. This player was already...special. He did not grasp things easily.

And so it was that, he was quite shocked when his wemic would enter a village and expect to be treated like any regular human person, and instead, the GM said "the inn won't admit you, you might try the stables, except no one wants you near their horses, which will probably spook and kick their stalls, and if you try the fields, everyone will want you away from their sheep and cows, for obvious reasons."

Didn't last long, and thankfully so.

[grom the mighty]

I absolutely must post in this thread.

Long ago, in a game far far away, we had a player who wanted to play a wemic. This player was already...special. He did not grasp things easily.

And so it was that, he was quite shocked when his wemic would enter a village and expect to be treated like any regular human person, and instead, the GM said "the inn won't admit you, you might try the stables, except no one wants you near their horses, which will probably spook and kick their stalls, and if you try the fields, everyone will want you away from their sheep and cows, for obvious reasons."

Didn't last long, and thankfully so.

I wish that was the view of my GM, but I'm afraid that the only time there's been any form of in-game racism like there should be, it's been an old man suspicious of the pixie that was polymorphing into a demon. He completely ignored the minotaur sat next to him however.... :smallfrown: