[2e] What to get? What to avoid

[Scowling Dragon]

So now I have the core books of 2e. Im (Padapapapa) lovin it.

What supplements do you suggest I AVOID. I know which kind of stuff to get, but I need to know which books are terribly balanced before I end up getting them.

And if there are any supplements that are especially awesome tell me here.

[Yora]

From what I have heard second hand of 2nd Edition splatbooks is: "Balance?" :smallconfused:

It seems to be pretty much all over the place.
Only thing I can say for sure is that people hate the revised version of the Dark Sun Campaign Setting Box, while the original version is highly beloved.

[Scowling Dragon]

Ok thats all I pretty much needed.

[Yora]

If there is anything close to a general consensus, then it's that the PHB and the setting books are great and pretty much everything else is highly controversial to say the least. For pretty much every "Complete X Handbook" there are people who call it the worst D&D book ever made, same goes for Spells and Powers.

[Scowling Dragon]

What about the Psionics and The necromancers books.

[nedz]

I liked the Tome of Magic, but I found that the Complete series were often poor value.

[LibraryOgre]

I liked the Tome of Magic, but I found that the Complete series were often poor value.

Generally, I would agree that the Complete Series is pretty poor, with a few notable exceptions.

1) Complete Fighter: There's some good options in there, making fighters a more viable combat option.

2) Complete Thief: Neat Equipment, and some customization options, few of which are insane.

3) Complete Wizards: Primarily the kits, but there's some nice spells and considerations. Nothing I recall is terribly overpowered.

4) Complete Bards: Excellent. Instead of "enhancing" bards, the kits tend to completely remake them. Not overpowering, and some good options for musical instruments and ideas on how bards and fame work in a campaign.

5) Complete Dwarves: Well-written and fairly balanced. No major issues I can recall, and a lot on the nuances of dwarves.

The Meh?

1) Complete Priests. Most of it is about building your own pantheon.

2) Complete gnomes and halflings. Overall, a very "meh" book. Nothing terribly new, nothing terribly great. OTOH, it is the basis of the Breachgnome.

3) Complete Rangers, Druids, and Paladins. Three books. I was very disappointed in the Paladin, because they didn't do much to expand the class options... it was mostly variations on "Man on shiny horse."

4) Complete Humanoids. A LOT of good options, and the races are built according to the rules in the DMG (unless they clearly violate them). However, the "Monstrous Traits" make little sense, and can result in utter stupidity and powergaming. Ignore those, and pretty good.

5) Complete Psionics. A good system, but way too attribute-dependent. Without decent attributes, you suck.

The Ugly:

1) Complete Elves. Includes such wonders as the Bladesong fighting style, Elven Full Plate (which allows you to cast spells in it), and elven cybernetics. Yes, elven cybernetics.

On the Player's Option system:
1) Combat and Tactics: Good, but not great. I prefer their Martial Arts system to the one from Complete Fighter, and they've got a great list of weapons.

2) Skills and Powers: IMO, pretty much the worst of the lot. Way too many ways to break it. However, I am very much a fan of using CPs for proficiencies, both weapon and non, and like their system. I keep wanting to retrofit it onto Complete Psionics, instead of the psionics system used in S&P.

3) Spells and magic. A mixed bag. The CP creation system is whacked, but isn't bad for limited customization ("I'm switching out X for Y and Z, which has the same point total.") The non-character creation section has some neat ideas, though.

[PJ Garrison]

Get the PHB, the DMG, and the Mountrous Manual (not the Monstrous Compendium, with it's loose leaf format!).

You may want to pick up some of the Monstrous Manual annuals as well.

I'd suggest the Complete Fighters Handbook. Most of the Complete Players books are garbage, but this one isn't. The fighter kits are a great way to make fighters more interesting and there are a wide variety optional combat and skill rules that anybody can use. I've always felt it was the best and most useful entry in the series.

I'm also fond of Auroras Whole Realms Catalogue. The idea of a medieval Sears/Roebuck catalogue is pretty silly, but there are a lot of useful elements too, like a list of everything you'd find in an alchemist's lab, and what all the parts do. It's a great tool for fleshing out the mundane areas of your campaign world.



What about the Psionics and The necromancers books.

Psionics are completely unnecessary and add another layer of complexity you don't need. I'd suggest playing the game for awhile and seeing how it feels. If you really feel the need to add psionics after playing for a few months, then get it. Otherwise just ignore it.

The necromancers book is supposedly decent but it's more of a book for the DM to make NPCs than a player resource. If you want it, get it, but don't assume that it's necessary. The game plays fine without it.

[Scowling Dragon]

Psionics are completely unnecessary and add another layer of complexity you don't need.

Too late. Already read their rules. :smallbiggrin:

I like how these Psionics are actualy, you know, Different from magic. Not just Casting with power points.

[Scots Dragon]

Tome of Magic, definitely. Even if only for the wild mage.

[Roland St. Jude]

I would say get everything, it's interesting to read, and it will only become harder to find as time goes on. But then use only what you like and realize that balance is what you make it. For my money, though, the best of 2e is in its settings and not the Completes or the similar sourcebooks.

[Analytica]

Complete Necromancers is, if anything, a fun read fluff-wise.

[Jay R]

Are you looking for books that are fun to read, or rules you will use?

The Complete X is almost useless, for any value of X, unless your character takes one of the kits, in which case you need the two pages that kit is on. Buy one for the group, and copy out the pages you each need.

I found the Wizard's Spell Compendium lots of fun to read, but I only ended up using about three spells from it.

Tome of Magic, ditto.

The Players' Option books are a bunch of cute ideas that work almost as well as the base system. Cute ideas if you want slight additional options at the cost of slight additional complexity.

So, if you are just playing, the most cost efficient method is the PHB, DMG, and MM. Period.

If you like fiddling with rules ideas, all of it is fun to read, but little will get used.

I don't know much about most of the settings.

Spelljammer is Elves in Space. Much depends on whether that phrase made you smile or cringe.

[Scowling Dragon]

Spelljammer is Elves in Space. Much depends on whether that phrase made you smile or cringe.

In space is dull. Its only fun if its in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

Space is different from SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE! in that unlike in space, you can have sound, explosions, and artificial gravity not caused by rotation in SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

So what kind of space is it? Is it Elves in Space? Or Elves in SPAAAAAAAAAAACE! ?

[Water_Bear]

In space is dull. Its only fun if its in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

Space is different from SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE! in that unlike in space, you can have sound, explosions, and artificial gravity not caused by rotation in SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

So what kind of space is it? Is it Elves in Space? Or Elves in SPAAAAAAAAAAACE! ?

Definitely SPAAAAAAACE!; the Spelljammers are literal ships, often with open decks judging by the illustrations, which fly in the Aether between Crystal Spheres and can run into Dragons, flying whales and Illithid mollusk-shaped spelljammers.

I've heard that that setting and Planescape combine into a single epic setting, which seems like something 2e really had a handle on. I love third edition to death, but other than Eberron it really didn't have very good fluff at all. Almost makes me want to try to play it, but I know I couldn't get a group together and rolling 3d6 for stats makes my blood-pressure spike.

[Scowling Dragon]

You could just transfer the point system to 2e. It works mostly under the same principle.

[nedz]

... rolling 3d6 for stats makes my blood-pressure spike.

What ! Just no !

4d6d1 and re-arrange is what we used to use, though I quite like point buy.

[Lapak]

I agree without reservations to everything Mark Hall said in his post, but I want to call these out for special attention:

4) Complete Bards: Excellent. Instead of "enhancing" bards, the kits tend to completely remake them. Not overpowering, and some good options for musical instruments and ideas on how bards and fame work in a campaign.
...
1) Complete Elves. Includes such wonders as the Bladesong fighting style, Elven Full Plate (which allows you to cast spells in it), and elven cybernetics. Yes, elven cybernetics.Complete Bard is one of the best sourcebooks for 2e, and is absolutely worth getting if you want to give some variety to knowledge/entertainer type characters. Racial variants that make sense. Bards that don't involve singing: performing bards. Riddling bards. Warrior-bards. Also, one of my favorite 2e spells (Sound Bubble.)

Complete Elves is probably the single worst book released for 2e. I was DMing a campaign and let a player introduce a character using options from it without really reading it first, and that was seriously one of the worst mistakes in my early gaming career. No balance whatsoever, thirty different flavors of 'elves are so awesome' without concern for the game.

[Telok]

The Spelljammer stuff is good if you get some spellcasting hirelings or an artifurnace to power your ship and want to play Fantasy Star Trek. Bonus points if you can get everyone to play tinker gnomes and fly around in an explosive ship while riding giant vampritic war hamsters.

The psionic stuff is bad when a very low level psion can permanently Banish anything he gets close to if he gets a good roll. No save, no spell resistance, no level limits, one good roll and it's bye-bye great wyrm red dragon. Plus the wild talent rules can get pretty bad too.

[Scowling Dragon]

The psionic stuff is bad when a very low level psion can permanently Banish anything he gets close to if he gets a good roll. No save, no spell resistance, no level limits, one good roll and it's bye-bye great wyrm red dragon. Plus the wild talent rules can get pretty bad too.

It only meant that creatures with the ability to teleport could not use that ability to leave if you rolled a proper roll.

So you still pay maintenance cost with a 5% chance of sending you to your own demiplane.

[hamlet]

I would say get everything, it's interesting to read, and it will only become harder to find as time goes on. But then use only what you like and realize that balance is what you make it. For my money, though, the best of 2e is in its settings and not the Completes or the similar sourcebooks.

This is absolutely a good point. Unless WOTC starts printing them again, which would be unutterably cool.

But, yeah, I responded to this in much more depth and specifics in the Dark Sun thread over in the other forum, but I'll add . . .

The supplements of 2nd edition are not really a matter of, as Yora put it, "Balance? What's that?" They are, though, a very mixed bag and you need, as the DM, to go through them with a fine comb and choose very specifically what you are including and what you are not. Sometimes page by page.

AD&D 2nd edition defaults (or should IMO) to a different base assumption that 3.x. It's not that it's all game except what's specifically excluded, it's exactly the opposite. The only things that are included, other than the core rules, are what you've specifically included. It works better that way. And you can do it on a campaign by campaign basis, so that if you're in Dark Sun, something like the Bladesinger from the Elf book is wildly inappropriate, but in Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms, it suddenly is more reasonable.

Start with an idea of what you want the campaign to be like, then go through the books and pick and choose those things that reflect your vision. You might even want to copy them out of their original books and assemble them into a packet for players and just hand them out when they ask what they can use.

[Joe the Rat]

Tome of Magic - it's good. Wild Mages. Classical Element specialists. Firecube.
Arms and Equipment gives you some lovely fluff and tweaks to fill out some toys. it also means you don't have to pick up all the Complete books for their specialty tools. Not necessary, but I like deeper shelves. I hadn't encountered the Whole Realms Catalog, but it's in a similar vein.

Personally, I liked the Book of Humanoids. It was Dragon #141, only for 2e. But I have unusual tastes.

The historical settings were amusing, but far from essential.

A word of caution on the softbacks: Even the best can be a mixed bag. The fluff side is usually worthwhile, but the crunch can be a little off.

The Options books should be avoided - QC was a little... discouraged at that point.

[nedz]

A word of caution on the softbacks: Even the best can be a mixed bag. The fluff side is usually worthwhile, but the crunch can be a little off.

The Options books should be avoided - QC was a little... discouraged at that point.

Yes, I believe that they had banned play testing by that point. :smallmad:

[Jay R]

I found Psionics to be an excellent touchstone for whether I should join a group.

Like most early D&D players, I want to simulate a classic fantasy world, at least to some degree. If you don't use Psionics, I'll probably enjoy playing with you, and you with me. But if your game uses Psionics, you probably don't want me in your group any more than I want to be there.

I don't think any other D&D option has been so useful for guaranteeing that I only join groups that will enjoy playing with me.

[TopCheese]

Really everyone is has what not to get down pretty good...

I also have to throw my voice in for Complete Bard it is a seriously awesome book.

I also suggest the Dark Sun books. That campaign setting is just fantastic.

[SiuiS]

I would say get everything, it's interesting to read, and it will only become harder to find as time goes on. But then use only what you like and realize that balance is what you make it. For my money, though, the best of 2e is in its settings and not the Completes or the similar sourcebooks.

This. Oh so very much this. The entire morass of aligent/alignment languages/weird history finally made sense after just a half-page do the older dungeoneer's survival guide, for example. The complete necromancer did wonders for adding a creepy flair that wasn't just "specialist theme wizard". And you can change the entire flavor or theme of a campaign by saying "in this game world, we will/won't use these options". It pretty slick.



Personally, I liked the Book of Humanoids. It was Dragon #141, only for 2e. But I have unusual tastes.

It was nice, but a lot of stuff in it lends itself to power gaming. Especially the proficiencies.



- QC was a little... discouraged at that point.

QC? Huh?

[Scowling Dragon]

Quality Control

[Lord Torath]

The psionic stuff is bad when a very low level psion can permanently Banish anything he gets close to if he gets a good roll. No save, no spell resistance, no level limits, one good roll and it's bye-bye great wyrm red dragon. Plus the wild talent rules can get pretty bad too.

Actually, you can only Banish the <insert nasty monster here> until you run out of PSPs (Psionic Strength Points). Once you stop maintaining the power (or move more than 5 yards away from where the beast was when you banished it), the banishment ends. And it costs 30 PSPs to initiate, and 10 per round to maintain. A low-level psionicist isn't going to be banishing anything for more than a few rounds, if that.

I've got to say, I LOVE the Tome of Magic, and I use spells from there constantly. There are some very useful wizard spells, and I love the wild mage class. The best part though are all the news spells for clerics. So many amazing things they can do

[Belril Duskwalk]

I would call the Complete Series a mixed bag. Some, like Fighter, Bard and Thief are quite impressive. Fighter provides some very nice abilities that even non-Fighters can use, Bard adds a huge variety of interesting options for some very different kinds of Bard. Thief is fantastic stuff for anybody playing a thief.

I actually found Dwarves and Halflings & Gnomes to be useful in getting the proper mindset of the races in mind and they provide some decent kits.

Others kind of stink. I was never too impressed with Wizard, few of the kits ever had much interest for me. Priest is almost completely worthless for a player. If you happen to be a DM looking to build your own pantheon from the ground up it's useful, but that's about the only use I can see to it. The Elves book tends to be a tad excessive, except in the case of the Bladesinger, which is completely and utterly broken.

[hamlet]

The Cleric book is . . . dramatically misundertsood, I suppose I would say.

Yeah, to a player, it's not tremendously useful unless you're hunting for a kit, and even then, the kits are lackluster. But to a DM, it can be invaluable if you're world building or looking for just that little something to add spice.

Really, none of these books were intended, at least originally, to be just added in their entirety as if they were massive modules. As the DM, you were expected to go through them and pick out only those things you wanted at the moment, and leave the rest behind. It wasn't until a bit later in the series that TSR realized that they couldn't sell as many books this way, and so changed the theory into one that we're more familiar with today. Gotta catch 'em all.

[Yora]

So were Prestige Classes in 3rd Edition. But pretty soon someone realized how much money there is in selling Prestige classes, feats, and spells books to players.

[hamlet]

So were Prestige Classes in 3rd Edition. But pretty soon someone realized how much money there is in selling Prestige classes, feats, and spells books to players.

Yes. It's what happens when people running the game company realize that in order to make money, they have to sell books to ALL the players at the table rather than just the DM. I don't fault them for it, but I do fault them, at times, for revelling in it.

[RossN]

The Cleric book is . . . dramatically misundertsood, I suppose I would say.

Yeah, to a player, it's not tremendously useful unless you're hunting for a kit, and even then, the kits are lackluster. But to a DM, it can be invaluable if you're world building or looking for just that little something to add spice.

Really, none of these books were intended, at least originally, to be just added in their entirety as if they were massive modules. As the DM, you were expected to go through them and pick out only those things you wanted at the moment, and leave the rest behind. It wasn't until a bit later in the series that TSR realized that they couldn't sell as many books this way, and so changed the theory into one that we're more familiar with today. Gotta catch 'em all.

I'd agree. The Complete Priest's Handbook is a book a DM can get a lot out of.

I know I'm probably be alone in this but I liked The Complete Ninja, especially the ideas for running ninja clans and (non-oriental) spy agencies using the ninja kits.

[hamlet]

I know I'm probably be alone in this but I liked The Complete Ninja, especially the ideas for running ninja clans and (non-oriental) spy agencies using the ninja kits.

It's not a bad book, if you're looking for movie style ninjas or James Bond style spies. Don't expect historical accuracy by any measure, but then again, rational people would already know this, along with all those historical books TSR put out.

Actually, speaking of the historical books, I very much LOVE them, especially the Celtic and Viking books, for the random chart you roll on for a character's "fate" or "aspect" or whatever. Some nifty kind of things in there, like being troll-kin in the Viking book.

[ken-do-nim]

Another bits and pieces fan here. For instance, use the Time sphere from Tome of Magic, martial arts system from Combat & Tactics, and then you can play the spell-casting monk from Skills & Powers.

[Jay R]

Yes. It's what happens when people running the game company realize that in order to make money, they have to sell books to ALL the players at the table rather than just the DM. I don't fault them for it, but I do fault them, at times, for revelling in it.

Their job is to provide books people might buy. Your job is to decide which ones not to buy.

Never ask the game company if you need a particular book, for the same reason that you don't ask a barber if you need a haircut.

[hamlet]

Their job is to provide books people might buy. Your job is to decide which ones not to buy.

Never ask the game company if you need a particular book, for the same reason that you don't ask a barber if you need a haircut.

Not my point. When you got to the published adventures of 3.x, it was clear that they were using material from lots of splat books that, if you didn't have them, you'd have to make significant modifications to the adventure to run it.

TSR did the same thing in later 2e days, though to lesser extent.

You can't claim that it's the job of the customer to decide which books to buy and then set it up so that if they want to buy later books, then they have to have a working knowledge of all these other books.

[Wookieetank]

My personal Favorites in 2e were the boxes for the Dragonlance setting and Planescape setting.

Dragonlance was fun for the increased role of dragons, and having the gods be more pro-active in the world (You never really knew if that crazy old man was just crazy, or Paladine masquerading as Fizban).

Planescape was just pure awesome and loads of fun to play in. Walking through a door will never be the same for you, wondering if something in your pockets or if even one of you thoughts will trigger a portal to who knows where.

[Jay R]

Not my point. When you got to the published adventures of 3.x, it was clear that they were using material from lots of splat books that, if you didn't have them, you'd have to make significant modifications to the adventure to run it.

TSR did the same thing in later 2e days, though to lesser extent.

You can't claim that it's the job of the customer to decide which books to buy and then set it up so that if they want to buy later books, then they have to have a working knowledge of all these other books.

Sure you can. For instance, I haven't bought anything new since 1E. I've recently picked up some 2E books, at my choice, on my schedule, from use bookstores.

Nobody can "force" me to buy anything I don't choose to buy.

If you don't like a company's policies, don't buy their products.

[hamlet]

Sure you can. For instance, I haven't bought anything new since 1E. I've recently picked up some 2E books, at my choice, on my schedule, from use bookstores.

Nobody can "force" me to buy anything I don't choose to buy.

If you don't like a company's policies, don't buy their products.

You're still missing my point.

I'm not talking about whole cloth issue here. I'm talking about wanting to buy the latest . . . whatever . . . and then finding out that the latest whatever requires you to use x number of other sourcebooks that you don't have, don't like, and don't want, and that the new whatever isn't really worth much to you at all.

It's like being in 2nd edition and finding one of the later adventure modules requires you to use the Powers and Options books, otherwise it makes no sense and is virtually worthless. So suddenly, the adventure is effectively worthless to you as well.

[SiuiS]

It's not a bad book, if you're looking for movie style ninjas or James Bond style spies. Don't expect historical accuracy by any measure, but then again, rational people would already know this, along with all those historical books TSR put out.

Actually, speaking of the historical books, I very much LOVE them, especially the Celtic and Viking books, for the random chart you roll on for a character's "fate" or "aspect" or whatever. Some nifty kind of things in there, like being troll-kin in the Viking book.

Ooh, any idea where I could find a list of these? I've never heard of them before. I always wondered though, having seen a copy of Charlemagne's Paladins...

[hamlet]

Ooh, any idea where I could find a list of these? I've never heard of them before. I always wondered though, having seen a copy of Charlemagne's Paladins...

E-Bay. Amazon.com. Noblekngiht.com.

Find somebody with copies of them and offer them large sums of money . . .

They're not that difficult to find, actually.

[Gadora]

Ooh, any idea where I could find a list of these? I've never heard of them before. I always wondered though, having seen a copy of Charlemagne's Paladins...

Well, after a bit of digging around, I turned up this, over on the D&D wiki (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Tactical_Studies_Rules/TSR_Inc.):

9322 HR1 Vikings Campaign Sourcebook
9323 HR2 Charlemagne’s Paladins Campaign Sourcebook
9376 HR3 Celts Campaign Sourcebook
9370 HR4 A Mighty Fortress Campaign Sourcebook
9425 HR5 The Glory of Rome Campaign Sourcebook
9408 (HR6) Age of Heroes Campaign Sourcebook
9469 (HR7) The Crusades Campaign Sourcebook

A bit of further poking (http://index.rpg.net/display-series.phtml?seriesid=1663&nomaster=1) using those names makes it look like that is in fact the full set.

[Matthew]

Well, after a bit of digging around, I turned up this, over on the D&D wiki (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Tactical_Studies_Rules/TSR_Inc.):

9322 HR1 Vikings Campaign Sourcebook
9323 HR2 Charlemagne’s Paladins Campaign Sourcebook
9376 HR3 Celts Campaign Sourcebook
9370 HR4 A Mighty Fortress Campaign Sourcebook
9425 HR5 The Glory of Rome Campaign Sourcebook
9408 (HR6) Age of Heroes Campaign Sourcebook
9469 (HR7) The Crusades Campaign Sourcebook

A bit of further poking (http://index.rpg.net/display-series.phtml?seriesid=1663&nomaster=1) using those names makes it look like that is in fact the full set.

Yeah, that is the full set. They are not bad at all, but very different experiences from conventional D&D. In D20 terms it is like playing "AD&D Past".

As to what supplements to avoid, pretty much all of them right off the bat. Once you have been playing for a while you might find you are hungering after more detail and such. I would recommend getting hold of the 1E PHB, DMG and MM before any other supplements. The DMG supplements were always more interesting than the class and race books, I thought.

[SiuiS]

E-Bay. Amazon.com. Noblekngiht.com.

Find somebody with copies of them and offer them large sums of money . . .

They're not that difficult to find, actually.

Ah, no. I meant what would I even be looking for, more than where could I find it.

Thank you Gadora! I've got some stuff to look for now. Even if I never play AD&D again, it would be worth having for the information alone.

[ThiagoMartell]

Don't get Of Ships And Sea.

[hamlet]

Don't get Of Ships And Sea.

Eh, there's nothing in particular wrong with it. Just that it's virtually useless unless, for instance, you're running a pirate campaign. And even then, it's still mostly stuff you could have gotten from common sense, the internet, and the PHB/DMG.

[Wookieetank]

Eh, there's nothing in particular wrong with it. Just that it's virtually useless unless, for instance, you're running a pirate campaign. And even then, it's still mostly stuff you could have gotten from common sense, the internet, and the PHB/DMG.

This seems like a rather glaring flaw to me. :smallwink:

[hamlet]

This seems like a rather glaring flaw to me. :smallwink:

Didn't stop the WOTC folks from making profits on similar books and people buying them up like candy.

[thorr-kan]

GET:
All the Al-Qadim product line.
The HR series mentione above (genius!)
Complete Humanoids
Complete Necromancer
Arms & Equipment Guide
Monster Mythology
The Wizard and Priest's Spell Compendiums
Von Richten's Guides
The relic and artifacts book

[sktarq]

A couple recomendations
The Ravenloft seires - even if you don't run in the world it has lots of interesting ideas and homerule to lift.
The complete Villain-It may have been I was about 12 when I first got this but it was and still a major catalyst for great ideas
I want to say another recomend was called the Complete stronghold builders guide but I could be wrong (my copy has so much duct tape I can't see the title .... still my favorite source for stronghold work-on the why and how not so much the magic odds and ends to snaz the place up with.

[hamlet]

Actually, in terms of Ravenloft, I would consider recommending against getting the whole thing and instead focus on this book: Domains of Dread (http://www.nobleknight.com/ProductDetail.asp_Q_ProductID_E_377_A_InventoryID_ E_2147893794_A_ProductLineID_E_14_A_ManufacturerID _E_1_A_CategoryID_E_16_A_GenreID_E_). It has much, if not most, of the setting in it in capsule form along with oodles of ideas and lots of advice in the back on how to make a Ravenloft or Ravenloft-like campaign go well including a bunch of nifty rules for those so inclined.

In addition, I would say that most of the Ravenloft modules are actually fairly poor, at least in terms of what I look for in a module. They're railroady and melodramatic and ultra plot heavy. There are exceptions, of course, including the very excellent Castles Forlorn super-module, but as a general rule they are a troublesome lot. They learned all the wrong lessons from the Dragonlance modules.

[Toofey]

Must Have
- Wizard's Handbook. Very useful reading as a DM to help run Magic, and reintroduces some spells that are sorely missed from Unearthed Arcana. (well, vocalize, without voc in the system silence 10' for priests gets super unbalancing)
- Tome of Magic if you don't have it, it makes Priests awesomesauce, and has some cool stuff for mages (don't introduce wild magic without reading the spells)
-Players Option: Spells and Magic, a must have if only for the new spells. Most of the rest of the book is good to read for ideas but bad to put directly into practice except the crit tables which can be fun, the knockdown system seems like a mess though.

Worth it if you want that stuff
- Of Ship and Sea, boat stuff, mostly good actually.
- Manual of the Planes Ad&d, sure, it's not 2e, but it's probably the best book reference for this stuff, provides you with some rules for things that are not fleshed out at all in the DMG, and is IMO far more satisfying than ever getting into that planescape nonsense.
- PO: Skills and Powers, avoid the point system as it never really go to the point of working in 2e (as a DM you can use it as a guide, but it doesn't give you even remotely comparable classes to the core 4) but the WP proficiency options here are pretty critical
- fighters handbook, one of the only one's of these with usable kits, also has some good proficiency options

Only worth it if you can get a deal/worth scanning pages out of
- PO Combat and Tactics the weapon list in this is useful, that's about it.
- Humanoids handbook. None of the player races work out well, but the Proficiencies are top notch

Avoid
-Oriental Adventures, I have spent countless hours reading this book and can tell you after searching it exhaustively it is almost entirely devoid of any content, and what is there is hilarious racism.
- PO: combat and tactics, see above, a waste of paper and time
-psyonics handbook, (aaauugh cant remember right name) I know I am going to take flack for this, but psyonics does not work in 2e. If you have to have it use the system from Skills and Powers... which is still awful.


In general with the other stuff you have to watch out as many of the blue books are full of nothing (some are really good though like ship and see) the Brown ones vary, I always seem to have copies of Elves and Dwarves but don't use them much


Edit: Also keep in mind the 2e books are almost all the perfect size to lean on for writing. I use my copy of OE as my designated writing surface when I play.

[Scowling Dragon]

Hmm.....I have the DM guide for high level play and I like it.

[MeeposFire]

The real problem with the priest boo was that the priest types were designed with a toned down cleric in mind so any player taking one of those priest types would actually weaken their character and they would not be given compensation relative to how much they were weakened. Granted the priest was still usually a viable character but most players don't want to weaken a character, especially in a way that limits basic options (priests that can't cast all the healing spells or bring people back to life? That is crazy talk to most), and get little to nothing in return.

The fighting monk priest was decent but like all the priest kits in that book it would remove enough spell selection that it would hurt.

[White Tornado]

I really like Combat and Tactics, and my group has been using it for years. I think the combat system is much better than the one in the PHB, but I haven't read or played the original combat system in years, so I'm not that sure anymore ^_^

I like the extended weapons list, tight and broad groups, weapon expertise and weapon mastery, the martial arts system, pummeling and wrestling rules, just about everything.

I find Skills and Powers horrible. I liked reading Council of Wyrms, but I doubt whether anybody has ever used any of that material.

[CIDE]

The real problem with the priest boo was that the priest types were designed with a toned down cleric in mind so any player taking one of those priest types would actually weaken their character and they would not be given compensation relative to how much they were weakened. Granted the priest was still usually a viable character but most players don't want to weaken a character, especially in a way that limits basic options (priests that can't cast all the healing spells or bring people back to life? That is crazy talk to most), and get little to nothing in return.

The fighting monk priest was decent but like all the priest kits in that book it would remove enough spell selection that it would hurt.

I haven't personally used it but a guy in one our games uses the fighting monk kit. He does relatively well and he has a **** load of fun with that character. Or...did before a nuke-equivalent destroyed the town we were in.

[Matthew]

I really like Combat and Tactics, and my group has been using it for years. I think the combat system is much better than the one in the PHB, but I haven't read or played the original combat system in years, so I'm not that sure anymore ^_^

I like the extended weapons list, tight and broad groups, weapon expertise and weapon mastery, the martial arts system, pummeling and wrestling rules, just about everything.

I find Skills and Powers horrible. I liked reading Council of Wyrms, but I doubt whether anybody has ever used any of that material.

Depends strongly on your preferences. The core system is basically a lot less complicated, which means there is much more "winging it" and ambiguity.