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View Full Version : Rant on player vs char int/wis



scurv
2012-11-17, 03:56 PM
My friend W, is one of those people has had a substance abuse issue for about two decades. So to say this politely he is not the sharp tack in the box, Unless the conversation moves to how to get high, Then he can school you.

Now he is slightly upset that his wizard/ priest who has the 17/16 int/wis char is crippled by the players intellect, and the rest of the players chars are the ones coming up with the idea's. And none of them are playing an intellectual dead-space, so there is little concern for not playing the char.

I need perspectives on how to handle this next week. But keep in mind my friend W, is at the border of being considered functional in my opinion (and the opinion of the state of PA he is considered disabled)

PersonMan
2012-11-17, 04:05 PM
I'd make the character's Int/Wis part of descriptions.

A normal person sees a chaotic battlefield or a messy room. The Ur-Priest sees the tide of the fight change and knows where to most easily change the battle; they see a workshop hidden beneath seemingly random 'clutter'...which is actually arrayed in a pattern specifically designed to trigger a response in most sentient minds that results in them being turned off from further investigation.

Basically, if you have DM notes for a room, give him most or all of what one could find with observation. This simulates a supergenius + very perceptive mind when the one behind it is...not a supergenius.

scurv
2012-11-17, 04:51 PM
We can give it a try person man, But W has trouble ordering at Mc D's with his damage

The Glyphstone
2012-11-17, 04:54 PM
Let him roll his Int/Wis stat to notice bonuses?

Failing that, have him re-roll as a character he's more happy RPing, with lower mental stats.

Mystra
2012-11-17, 05:16 PM
A trick I use is to just 'help' the player. Anything a 'brilliant' player does...IS brilliant. You simply alter the game to make whatever they do great.

You can also very much so dumb down the foes, even past 'cartoon-like'. So, just for this character, foes make crazy mistakes.

For example, a foe attacking this character would never ever use cover and would always stand out in the open. They would also rush over and attack. Worse they would do the 'attack one at a time' classic from most martial arts movies.

PersonMan
2012-11-17, 05:37 PM
We can give it a try person man, But W has trouble ordering at Mc D's with his damage

No space. I'm confused with Person_Man enough as it is, this could make it happen even more.

Jay R
2012-11-17, 05:51 PM
The fact is that a clever player played foolishly acts foolishly, and a foolish player played cleverly acts cleverly.

For my games, I re-defined "Intelligence" to be only the rollable aspects of Intelligence. Otherwise, there's no way to play it consistently.

An alternative is, when he suggests something foolish, the DM can say, "Your high Intelligence makes you realize that the bridge can't support your weight. You think it would be smarter to stay where you are."

Or, "Your keen Ranger senses tell you that the orcs went south. (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=835)"

Water_Bear
2012-11-17, 06:01 PM
One thing I've always thought was useful in D&D is "Common Sense" rolls. Whenever a PC is about to do something monumentally stupid, or miss a really obvious point, I'll say "Are You Sure?" and if they say yes I'll ask for an Intelligence or Wisdom roll v DC 15 (20 for less obvious ones). If they make it I explain the flaw in their reasoning and suggest a better course of action.

I'm not sure that'll help here though, because it seems like his real problem is that his character build is not playing to his strengths. Wizard has always been one of the most complex classes in any edition, and a multi-classed character is going to have even more options to have to contend with. A simpler character build which still has a decent number of options for interacting with the world is going to let him create better plans because he'll understand his own capabilities, and be more confident about using them.

scurv
2012-11-17, 07:02 PM
I tried to run the concept of a new char, IE his traditional dorf warrior to him. Just now,

I like a few of the idea's and we might try to handhold him though the thinking process, Just the problem with W is he has done so much dope in his life that he is functionally retarded now(Not a clinical assessment on my part, but his brain is broke enough that PA approved him on the first application) . I'm going to print out whatever is here on Thursday and sit down with the group minus him to work something out.

We like the guy, He has been clean for two years now. But i think some of his issue is he has figured out that he is now significantly less endowed on the IQ curb then he was when he started doing dope on a regular basis. And is reacting to other people who comes up with innovative solutions to problems that he can not even perceive.

Thank you all in advance, This is more of a help then you know

Serpentine
2012-11-17, 09:54 PM
I like using the "group mind" to help people play super-intelligent characters anyway - one person is limited to their own intellect, but you can fake a higher one by getting a bunch of people to help. So, for instance, out of character the whole group will work together to solve a problem, but in character it's the intelligent character who find the solution. It might help if you introduce this as a general practice, rather than a handholding specifically for him.

Out of curiosity, how is he as a player otherwise? If he's that borked, how does he cope with the maths etc?

EtherianBlade
2012-11-17, 11:32 PM
Just because someone possesses high intelligence does not necessarily mean they act intelligently. I've known several people who scored highly on SATs, did great in school, hold a highly technical job that requires a lot of "smarts," but when it came to applying that intelligence outside of their comfortable frame of reference, they were about as helpful as the Vilige Idiet.

You could recommend to W that his character is the more cloistered, scholarly type who just doesn't have the technical, tactical savvy of the other characters. However, you also don't want to downplay what intelligence he does possess. You could have W's character shine when it comes to making certain skill checks, such as Knowledge, Spellcraft, and Sense Motive, all which you could "roll" behind the screen.

W may not mind not being able to personally come up with brilliant plans if his character is given flashes of in-game genius.

I had a player like this several years ago in a game. He played a Wizard and was very impressed with the fact that he had an 18 Intelligence, of which he liked to remind other players (but not obnoxiously; he was fun to play with). Now, the player himself was rather simple-minded (now that I think of it, he also had a dependency issue), but I helped him play up the intelligence of his character by providing him with a lot of interesting -- but ultimately worthless -- in-game information, such as the history of the local kingdom, lore about monsters, and so forth. It made him feel good that he was playing someone smarter than himself but did not unbalance the game or take anything away from the others' experience.

Slipperychicken
2012-11-17, 11:45 PM
If other players have good/brilliant ideas for the group, have everyone to agree the Wizard came up with the idea IC, basically getting a consensus on "your 8 INT illiterate Barbarian who was raised by wolves wouldn't have thought of using a forgery to escape the guards. The Wizard would have, so let's say he did in-character, just to maintain realism/verisimilitude". This is especially good if you like to mull over ideas OOC. It's also an exercise in separating IC and OOC knowledge.

scurv
2012-11-18, 12:11 AM
About W in brief,

W was a druggie since high school ( I did not know him then, but I have heard hundreds of stories from.... everywhere) But he managed to keep the few skills in life he has due to constant use Such As Dungeons and Dragons. As far as the math and die rolls go, He manages them due only to practice and maintaining those skills while he was frying his brain.

Although we do need to keep someone next to him to keep him honest.

Now when we attempted to teach him the D10 system from whitewolf, I almost put my own head though a wall from the problems that produced.

And next sunday/monday I will give everyone an update on how the brainstormed idea's were implemented and how they worked.


<EDIT>
At this point, And it is not the point of kicking him from the group or anything. It is a case were we are failing on all fronts, And we simply need one area of strength in order to have something to build from.

Malak'ai
2012-11-18, 03:32 AM
I like using the "group mind" to help people play super-intelligent characters anyway - one person is limited to their own intellect, but you can fake a higher one by getting a bunch of people to help. So, for instance, out of character the whole group will work together to solve a problem, but in character it's the intelligent character who find the solution. It might help if you introduce this as a general practice, rather than a handholding specifically for him.

Out of curiosity, how is he as a player otherwise? If he's that borked, how does he cope with the maths etc?

I agree 100% with this. I have played with people who have a vastly superior and a vastly lower IQ than myself and it has been hard. One thing that I have encouraged is working together OOC to plan things and then have a character with high INT to propose it IC.
This way all players feel involved and that they have had their ideas heard and evaluated.

And even if this is not how you want "W" to play, consider the old Absent minded Professor archetype. Someone who is really "brainy" but has no common sense what so ever.

Joe the Rat
2012-11-19, 10:57 AM
While I like using stats as guidelines on the character's though process, I generally find it helpful to treat the stats more as the "whats", and use the player's decisions for the "whys" and "hows".

In short, I treat Intelligence more as knowledge (what you know) and attention to detail, and use Wisdom for intuition, perception, and willpower. While high stats would suggest a clever and well-grounded character, that doesn't have to be the case. High stats mean a rich detail of information is available to the character (and player), but does not necessarily dictate how it is applied.

Cleverness, Cunning, and Common Sense are up to the player. Now this could still be a problem for W, if he wants to play a clever "ideas man" wizard, and has trouble coming up with ideas. If your table in amenable, OOC discussion to help create those ideas would be a way to get there, and either player OOC or roll-Wisdom warnings to avoid really bad decisions, but W must have final say on what his character says, does, or comes up with plan-wise. People can make suggestions, but he has to say what happens. I can guarantee W will not be happy if he feels like he doesn't have control.

mishka_shaw
2012-11-19, 01:40 PM
One thing I've always thought was useful in D&D is "Common Sense" rolls. Whenever a PC is about to do something monumentally stupid, or miss a really obvious point, I'll say "Are You Sure?" and if they say yes I'll ask for an Intelligence or Wisdom roll v DC 15 (20 for less obvious ones). If they make it I explain the flaw in their reasoning and suggest a better course of action.


100% this. Make them roll a wisdom check and if they get high enough than give them a hint about a good course of action or about what not to do.

scurv
2012-11-20, 09:21 PM
We all read over this, and Hashed around afew idea's of our own. As little as we like to, the campaign will be toned down a little. The issue of W being upset though we all agree is a player adjustment. IE he is kinda peeved that he went from Quite a bright fellow to a clinical moron due to 15 to 20 years of hard drug use.

My sister is going to work with me on the whole giving hints thing in the descriptions I give. I do dislike spelling out what needs done with the players, I actually spend quite a bit of time making props to avoid doing that

BTW second life and nwn2 campaign editor is awesome for that. But I think I will try to have W make more rolls to spell stuff out to him as best as we can.

valadil
2012-11-20, 11:23 PM
Roleplaying games are many things. They're games. They're escapism. They're even a little bit theater. The trouble is that they're all these things at once.

The game should allow the wizard to be appropriately powerful. The escapism should let the dumb guy pretend he's smart. But the theater aspect runs into trouble if someone is cast in a role they can't handle.

I'm not sure what to do when another player does this to himself. As a player I try to avoid taking on characters I can't handle. I don't play lovers. My last druggie was a train wreck. I don't even know how to approach a religious character. But I opt out of those characters myself. I don't know that I could tell someone else they don't have the brains to play a wizard.

BootStrapTommy
2012-11-21, 12:57 AM
Maybe in the future have him play a fighter? Or maybe a sorc?

scurv
2012-11-21, 09:36 AM
Just tried to coax him into a Fighter again the other day and that just did not happen. Now understand I do have a background (unwilling as it may be) in dealing with special needs kids and stroke victims, So from that I do know some things that tend to work out well, Part of the reason I take to make alot of my town maps in the NWN2 builder and use second life to build alot of the situations that their chars encounter as well (the group I am with has two people who have issues accepting information orally and one who just needs to take his time to stare at it for a while before it clicks)

But I have never dealt with over-fried brains before, Emotional issues aside

He has limited problem solving ability,

Things need repeated to him five times or more for it to sink in.

if it is something outside of the scope of what he knows it ruins his world

I am not sure he can read effectively.

And he gets truly miffed if someone figures something out that was confusing him. And as near As i can understand the last conversation with him, He expects the players to perform under his rl ability, becouse his char has the high marks in those departments.

valadil
2012-11-21, 10:11 AM
Things need repeated to him five times or more for it to sink in.

if it is something outside of the scope of what he knows it ruins his world

I am not sure he can read effectively.

And he gets truly miffed if someone figures something out that was confusing him. And as near As i can understand the last conversation with him, He expects the players to perform under his rl ability, becouse his char has the high marks in those departments.

I am in awe of your patience right now. Congrats on making it this far with this guy. I know I couldn't.

I was going to suggest passing him hints on notecards. Maybe they're details he picks up on or connections he makes. Then I read the reading part. Now I'm at a loss.

Anxe
2012-11-21, 10:37 AM
Honestly, I'm not sure we're the best place to seek advice. He's probably already been in rehab, but is there some sort of therapy he can go to? Kind of like how physical therapy helps your body better, he needs mental therapy for his mind to get better. Obviously, it won't be as good as if he wasn't a drugee, but its worth a shot. No clue where you'd find such a therapist though.

I'm saying this because the guy probably has these same issues outside of playing the game with you. Something like this might improve his brain overall.

scurv
2012-11-21, 05:21 PM
Anxe that is one of the few reasons we put up with him.
He is trying.
<edit>
But still, advice on idea's how to handle the mechanics of the session with W....Is still a useful thing. As for W's personalty we can let my sister smooth that over some

Anxe
2012-11-21, 09:54 PM
Alright! That's good! I think there's already been a lot of useful advice here, soo... Try whatever works?

OACSNY97
2012-11-22, 09:33 AM
First, let me second the congratulations for your patience dealing with W.

Looking at your points below, especially the one about needing things repeated several times, would it help to give him warning about stuff ahead of time? Frequently my group works out in character interactions on the side using Skype outside of game time. This works well to figure out and practice how a character would react to a scenario. A day or so before a session, could you try giving him a small challenge with no dice, just in character talking so he can start thinking ahead of time?

Forex, say you want the party in the next session to interact with some NPC who's going to give them information for the right consideration. Out of game and out of cannon, have him interact with an NPC who wants a nice bribe to help out (does not have to be the same NPC or the same information) and help him brainstorm a list of things that are reasonable to offer and find some way of recording the list. Then when the session comes up, he's primed to think of good bribes and has a list of possible things to offer even if they're generic things like 'buy the guy dinner,' 'pay him 10gp,' 'offer to help recover his missing thing,' or 'help get rid of the bandits camped nearby' so his character will look like he's got a clue.

Alternately, I saw one person suggest the absent minded professor type, smart but with no common sense, that could work or the opposite extreme of a very young, very inexperienced kid out on his own for the first time. If you go with the kid, you have the excuse for the rest of the party to be helping him think of stuff. The kid could be bright, but have so little experience outside of 'school' that he simply doesn't yet know what will work in the real world and needs help restraining his enthusiasms. A young, gawky nerd might help with his problems dealing with new information because you can say things like, 'this wasn't covered in wizard school because... (make up something semi-probable).' It gives him a face saving out for not knowing and you chance to do some info dumping.

Good luck.


Just tried to coax him into a Fighter again the other day and that just did not happen. Now understand I do have a background (unwilling as it may be) in dealing with special needs kids and stroke victims, So from that I do know some things that tend to work out well, Part of the reason I take to make alot of my town maps in the NWN2 builder and use second life to build alot of the situations that their chars encounter as well (the group I am with has two people who have issues accepting information orally and one who just needs to take his time to stare at it for a while before it clicks)

But I have never dealt with over-fried brains before, Emotional issues aside

He has limited problem solving ability,

Things need repeated to him five times or more for it to sink in.

if it is something outside of the scope of what he knows it ruins his world

I am not sure he can read effectively.

And he gets truly miffed if someone figures something out that was confusing him. And as near As i can understand the last conversation with him, He expects the players to perform under his rl ability, becouse his char has the high marks in those departments.

Knaight
2012-11-23, 02:35 AM
I'd make the character's Int/Wis part of descriptions.

A normal person sees a chaotic battlefield or a messy room. The Ur-Priest sees the tide of the fight change and knows where to most easily change the battle; they see a workshop hidden beneath seemingly random 'clutter'...which is actually arrayed in a pattern specifically designed to trigger a response in most sentient minds that results in them being turned off from further investigation.
I do this all the time, and it is immensely helpful. It also provides a way to anchor characters in the world, get details through that are more than just sensory perception, and do other such things. It's a technique that warrants use even if there are absolutely no int/wis discrepancies, and that gets even more useful when it comes to a variety of sensory capabilities, specific knowledge skills, etc.

On a tangent - substance abuse issues really don't work particularly well as an indicator of low intelligence. There are some extremely bright people who get caught up in it, and when the substance itself isn't affecting them it shows. There may well be a correlation, but it isn't strong enough to use as the crux of the argument, and the way W's problem was phrased kind of implies that it is.

Preachiness over.

Socratov
2012-11-23, 08:28 AM
off topic: and that's why I play mildly intelligent mostly charismatic characters to better portray the charismatic stallion that I am :smallwink: (bards and warlocks my prevalent choice)

on topic:

I see your problems with W. On the one hand you want to have him have as much fun roleplaying his character as possible and thus not wanting to limit his decisions or RP opportunities. On the other hand you don't want to show any favoritism to W in front of the rest of the group by offering him more 'hooks' as it were to hang on to when roleplaying.

Now onto his overfried brain: as I have understood and seen it makes quite a difference if his habit consisted of uppers, downers or psychoactive substances (let's call them A, B and C). I am by no means a neurologist or addicton worker, but I can relate to some people I know who have (ab)used substances of different varieties. Your mileage may vary!

In the case of A: He is probably a bit slow on the intake and needs a stronger stimulus to get started. The upside is that when he gets a train of thought going he could come up with really creative ideas of handling a situation. I guess the proper course of action is to up the stimulus of the descriptions as suggested by PersonMan.

B is worst case scenario: if this is the case then he might just not make the connection even if he clearly understands the situation as described. he might not notice the hooks you throw him becuase it is much harder for him to make the connection.

C is an interesting case since it combines a bit of A (needs more stimulation in descriptions) and a bit of B (he might not make the connections you have in mind for him. but a third effect is surfacing: he might be too imaginative for him to handle (creating an over stimulus as it were. it looks like needing more stimulation and being too imaginative would cancel each other out but in this case they enhance each other. Imagine a 'normal' person riding the train as handling a thought process. for example an ADD person rides a complex subway system with frequent track changes (as explained to me by multiple persons 'suffering' from ADD), however is very adept at navigating it and get from start to finish the quickest (way quicker the a normal person might go). If he misses a stop he gets lost however. A case C druggie doesn't ride a train but a roller coaster. imagine if you will the track being the information you provide. if the information is concise and to the point it can still sort of resemble a train track in which the twists and turns are at a minimum. every extra bit of information ads a looping, screw or what have you. In this case I wish you good luck on a mission (almost) impossible.

Hope I could have been of some assistance.

scurv
2012-11-24, 06:21 PM
Welp, tonight's pre-session so far.

Walt is going to get an hour Pre-session before we game, And considering that he needs someone to drive him this kinda works out well enough. The other players have been briefed about that and there will be no issues with players feeling left out on that.

I am increasing the usage of note-cards to players to let them know what their char is seeing, So hopefully by giving him more information, Directly in a written format that It can sooth the ego as he relates what his char is seeing. And give him the longer duration to go over the information for him to process it.


I dislike hand-holding players to generate idea's But the rest of the players have agree'ed that they will have no issues with me doing that in his case (And more importantly that if they do have issues to take it up with me after session when W is not there) So It will be a chance for him to make int/wis rolls as needed to 'evaluate' the possibility of some outcomes working.


And my sister told me that she is going to hint at breaks so W's issues do not aggravate my issues thus leading to some of the disasters that we have grown use to.

I am thinking of giving W's char a selection of magic items for him to puzzle out how which is best to apply to the situation at hand. We all think that it would be best for him to concern himself with personal tactics rather then group tactics. And I will handle the OP Char with the stockpile arsenal disaster later.


I have done tutoring in the past and more then a little bit of that with special needs kids, And although I am no card-carrying expert He has issues with the intake of information, As well as allot of gaps in his reasoning ability that he is working his way though now.

He breaks down under sustained problem solving effort, when he has to multi task problem solving with the intake of new information. But he seems to handle well enough when he has all the information and time to ingest it fully.

His ability to intake new information verbally is problematic at best and utterly breaks down if it is information from two different source types.

He seems to be utterly unable to process picture and verbal information at the same time, Although that is my sisters observation and not my own.

But picture and written information he can process, So that is a point to work with.

I am not sure about his ability to translate thoughts into words.

To ballpark his reading level I would put it on the 4th grade, But it seems to be his strong suit so that is what I am going to work with.

As for what he did in the past, It seemed dependent on prescriptions he could find, Dealers available, over the counter drugs, or chemicals at hand. I did make inquiry about that this week and it was a lengthy discussion that was had. Although from what he said he did not like to trip often (that last bit I personally am unsure how to process).

From what my brother in law says, and a few of W's friends stated. W use to be significantly sharper then he is now before two decades of drug use. Understand when I relate this. It is observations of others who knew him in school and his adult life. and my observation of a man who is what i would consider functionally retarded now.

When i said that he had trouble ordering at Mc D's I actually mean that he has significant trouble using a menu to order food, Be it picture or words or spoken to him.


Thank everyone for some idea's on how to handle this. It started as a therapeutic rant and We actually got some info from people who were not emotional biased and invested in the situation. Quite a useful thing actually.

OACSNY97
2012-11-24, 09:39 PM
Thank you for the update, please let us know how the suggestions went in session.

You did say a couple of things I found interesting about W's ability to process information. If he processes information better in a written format, would it be worth while to not only pass notes, but do a lot of the brainstorming at the table via IM or would that be too much input?

Also, if he has difficulty translating ideas into words, does he have equal difficulty translating ideas to pictures? Could he sketch some of what he's trying to get across? This worked pretty well for me when I was trying to describe how to turn 6 10ft poles and some rope into a bridge over a pit trap to large to jump across. I couldn't describe it very well but once I drew it, we went for it and nobody died on the spikes :).

Good luck.


Welp, tonight's pre-session so far.

Walt is going to get an hour Pre-session before we game, And considering that he needs someone to drive him this kinda works out well enough. The other players have been briefed about that and there will be no issues with players feeling left out on that.

I am increasing the usage of note-cards to players to let them know what their char is seeing, So hopefully by giving him more information, Directly in a written format that It can sooth the ego as he relates what his char is seeing. And give him the longer duration to go over the information for him to process it.


I dislike hand-holding players to generate idea's But the rest of the players have agree'ed that they will have no issues with me doing that in his case (And more importantly that if they do have issues to take it up with me after session when W is not there) So It will be a chance for him to make int/wis rolls as needed to 'evaluate' the possibility of some outcomes working.


And my sister told me that she is going to hint at breaks so W's issues do not aggravate my issues thus leading to some of the disasters that we have grown use to.

I am thinking of giving W's char a selection of magic items for him to puzzle out how which is best to apply to the situation at hand. We all think that it would be best for him to concern himself with personal tactics rather then group tactics. And I will handle the OP Char with the stockpile arsenal disaster later.


I have done tutoring in the past and more then a little bit of that with special needs kids, And although I am no card-carrying expert He has issues with the intake of information, As well as allot of gaps in his reasoning ability that he is working his way though now.

He breaks down under sustained problem solving effort, when he has to multi task problem solving with the intake of new information. But he seems to handle well enough when he has all the information and time to ingest it fully.

His ability to intake new information verbally is problematic at best and utterly breaks down if it is information from two different source types.

He seems to be utterly unable to process picture and verbal information at the same time, Although that is my sisters observation and not my own.

But picture and written information he can process, So that is a point to work with.

I am not sure about his ability to translate thoughts into words.

To ballpark his reading level I would put it on the 4th grade, But it seems to be his strong suit so that is what I am going to work with.

As for what he did in the past, It seemed dependent on prescriptions he could find, Dealers available, over the counter drugs, or chemicals at hand. I did make inquiry about that this week and it was a lengthy discussion that was had. Although from what he said he did not like to trip often (that last bit I personally am unsure how to process).

From what my brother in law says, and a few of W's friends stated. W use to be significantly sharper then he is now before two decades of drug use. Understand when I relate this. It is observations of others who knew him in school and his adult life. and my observation of a man who is what i would consider functionally retarded now.

When i said that he had trouble ordering at Mc D's I actually mean that he has significant trouble using a menu to order food, Be it picture or words or spoken to him.


Thank everyone for some idea's on how to handle this. It started as a therapeutic rant and We actually got some info from people who were not emotional biased and invested in the situation. Quite a useful thing actually.

Abies
2012-11-24, 10:10 PM
I really do want to congratulate on your efforts to include a player, who from your own description is mentally handicapped in your games.

I know you've said that the other players are "ok" with the situation, but really, are they? Or are they just afraid of "W's" reaction?

Is he aware that he's not a functional adult? Getting bent out of shape because he failed to understand something (even after 5 explanations) is not a reasonable reaction.

Also, your description of this person's abilities is confusing. He can not read well, but still processes written information better than verbal? Well that's a **** sandwich, isn't it? So can't read, can not understand spoken descriptions, can not problem solve at higher than a 4th grade level (dubious)? This really is not a person who needs to be playing D&D, or any other role-playing game.

I apologise, but I'd not return to your game, old friend or not, if such a person were invited. I applaud your players/friends for sticking with him and you through this process. However, I doubt anyone is having all that good of a time.

scurv
2012-11-24, 11:32 PM
http://askville.amazon.com/average-reading-grade-level-United-States-verifiable-statistic-source/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=9491858

Considering the average reading level in the states is 8-9th grade...

Most of this group is relatives of mine or inlaws/friends of the family, And considering our family history we are somewhat acclimated at dealing with mental handicaps. two of us came up in an LD program and our mother had a stroke 15ish years ago. We got a sibling that is a diagnosed narcissist, One neibor boy we grew up with who has downs, and our father is still kinda special from Vietnam.(although i can not count how many people i have met who are afraid of catching a stroke from my mother....but that is another rant)

As for player fear....not so much. Its a new type of damage for us to contend with but not a first time, are we feeling frustration, concern and wishing to put his head though a wall yes. Fear not so much.


The note card method seems to work best. It spares our nerves and gives W the time he needs to process the information on plot critical events. Downside is it will be a bit more railroading on the plot...but I as the DM can live with that.
But between that and enhancing his toy bag of disposable items we may have our best solution.
But his pride seems to get in the way of suggesting the course of action to solve the problem at hand even with a stat roll, So that will have to be used sparingly.

And actually yes, Frustration at being confronted with the fact that you are no longer a functional person is quite normal. And truthfully at this stage of the game, If playing dnd keeps him clean and enjoying life to an extent, Then why should he not be permitted to play? He knows the house rules is that if he wishes to play, He needs to keep himself civil and clean.

I mean seriously I am just on this side of functional with my anxiety issues it would be one mean kick in the willies if someone told me i had to give up something i enjoy on-top of that. As long as he is willing to put forth the effort, He is welcome to the table.
But that being said, If he has an outburst like he did two weeks ago, He is going to have a very long walk home or an uncomfortable ride with kinky wrist bracelets. And this he is well aware of as well.


<<edit>>
He reads around a 4th grade level, I did not state that is were his problem solving ability's are. Truthfully he would need a full assessment to actually know what those are. But based on tonight's session and his ability to respond when stress is kept lowish is somewhat promising, all things considered

Abies
2012-11-25, 02:16 AM
Lol, alright I understand your situation. Yes I too have wanted to put friends/family members heads through walls.

So long as everyone is comfortable and willing to adapt, then I wish the best of luck.

Still, for the sake of his character "being smart(er)" than other players, the suggestion to provide him with flashcards with (perhaps) important information prior to the game is a good one.

Perhaps slide a couple cards for future games in as well to see if any retention takes place. Subtle reminders that "Anything you "know (/cough flashcards)" might be useful today". Might help to re-establish some critical thinking/memory skills.

Best wishes.