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Daemonhawk
2012-11-19, 11:59 PM
So, a friend of mine suddenly decided to not join my group after I told him he couldn't play his DS at the table. He said that I was pretentious for making such a rule, and that I shouldn't have got upset because "It's just a game."
I did get upset at this, as I had been planning this for some time, and to suddenly cancel irritated me a bit. I told him he was free to do what he wanted to, but that the rule wasn't going to change.

Would you have handled this differently? Was I justified in getting upset? And how could I have handled this better?

The Glyphstone
2012-11-20, 12:01 AM
Nope, that's perfectly reasonable. If he'd rather play his DS than play your game, free up that seat for someone who's willing to put in the effort.

DaedalusMkV
2012-11-20, 12:05 AM
Wait, the player is angry because you didn't want him playing a completely different game instead of the game you're actually putting the time and effort in to run? Yeah, you're absolutely justified.

My group had someone who liked to bring out random other video games at the table once. Trying to get him to pay attention was like pulling rusty nails from a wet board, he held up the game at every turn because of it, and when he did do something it was disruptive and nonsensical more often than not. Trust me, you don't want someone like that at the table.

Daemonhawk
2012-11-20, 12:13 AM
Well, it's good to know that I had the proper response.
Thank you for the replies!

Story Time
2012-11-20, 12:14 AM
In all fairness...it's all about fairness. The point of a group of friends playing a game together is to play the game and be friends. Electronic equipment, entertaining or not, is rude. For example, it would be frowned upon for a guest to take calls from their mobile phone during, say, Thanksgiving Dinner.

This thread reminds me again that I'd like to cross-stitch a sign above my gaming table.

Turn off all electronic devices.
Thank you for your co-operation.

DontEatRawHagis
2012-11-20, 12:16 AM
I feel like I need context for this situation because honestly I never open my book unless its during a long combat encounter where I do nothing. While your player might be disrespectful to you, check to make sure that there isn't a reason he is playing his DS. Maybe there is something you can do about it besides kicking him to the curb?

Side Note;
We have... 7 players not including the DM in my current group.

Honestly I have a notebook open where I write pseudo-code and ideas for other games. I timed it all out and it takes about 10 minutes to do all the players and 5 minutes for the DM's turn depending on whats going on.

Considering how big the fights have gotten I am worried that all of these encounters are going to take at least three-three hour sessions to complete each one.

The Glyphstone
2012-11-20, 12:26 AM
He didn't leave the group according to the OP, he just decided not to join when he found out he couldn't ignore the game and play his DS when it wasn't his turn in combat.

Daemonhawk
2012-11-20, 12:28 AM
Glyphstone is right. He's known about this for a while, so why it's suddenly a problem is beyond me. But yes, we haven't even begun yet.

DontEatRawHagis
2012-11-20, 12:39 AM
Okay then I amend my answer to the guy being a douche. It's basic table manners, especially when someone asks you to stop.

Malak'ai
2012-11-20, 01:08 AM
In all fairness...it's all about fairness. The point of a group of friends playing a game together is to play the game and be friends. Electronic equipment, entertaining or not, is rude. For example, it would be frowned upon for a guest to take calls from their mobile phone during, say, Thanksgiving Dinner.

This thread reminds me again that I'd like to cross-stitch a sign above my gaming table.

Turn off all electronic devices.
Thank you for your co-operation.

I have problems with my players having their cell phones/pagers whatever turned on at the table because I always have mine on me.
Answering the occasional phone call or text isn't that bad, something that can be solved with a quick break. It's when they are answering them every few minutes that I can understand the frustration.

BootStrapTommy
2012-11-20, 03:25 AM
So your friend was being a disrespectful ****. It's common courtesy, not a rule. If one does not do it, its not wrong but they are being an asshat, and you were right to call him out on it.

It's common decency. But I guess that's something people these days just seem to lose more and more of it with cellphone, mp3, and handheld games. Its just rude to use them when you should be playing attention to the people around you.

Deathkeeper
2012-11-20, 04:50 AM
Actually, one player's tendency to play her DS in the middle of sessions was one of the main complaints to the DM we made in my first campaign. It was quite annoying when someone does that, as it just screams "I don't care about the game." The same usually goes for using the phone, but we made an exception since during that game we were still in high school and the people calling/texting us were usually our parents asking when they should drive us home.

Story Time
2012-11-20, 05:17 AM
...just think. Before quasi-synchronous messages human beings had to make promises and then keep them. What a world it could be.

Kelb_Panthera
2012-11-20, 07:13 AM
...just think. Before quasi-synchronous messages human beings had to make promises and then keep them. What a world it could be.

I think I vaguely remember that...... oh god..... the lime-green, lan-line with the rotary dial...... I thought that thing was banished from my mind forever..... Curse you storytime!

Just kidding, btw. At least on the curse you bit. I really do remember using a phone like that a couple times when I was little.

On topic: yeah, you didn't do anything wrong. A good DM can put as much time into the game between sessions as the players (plural) put in during a session. Asking the players not to disrespect that kind of dedication by half-ignoring it isn't out of line at all.

Krazzman
2012-11-20, 07:36 AM
...just think. Before quasi-synchronous messages human beings had to make promises and then keep them. What a world it could be.

I know that too. That was the reason the DM for a Shadowrun campaign I participated in didn't have a mobile phone... bad was it only when I told him to contact me for his savage-world zombie apocalypse campaign (since he didn't have any way to contact him sort of sitting in a specific game store and wait for him to show up... which I couldn't for quite some time due to examphase).

B2T: I think your actions were actually good. Playing DS is a no-go for such activities he wouldn't play DS while at a concert, wouldn't he? I for my part don't ban Mobilephones... actually I give the witch player in that group my mobilephone because of a spellbook app i have and in the campaign I play in we keep track of what happens via a Tablet.

Malak'ai
2012-11-20, 07:37 AM
I think I vaguely remember that...... oh god..... the lime-green, lan-line with the rotary dial...... I thought that thing was banished from my mind forever..... Curse you storytime!

Just kidding, btw. At least on the curse you bit. I really do remember using a phone like that a couple times when I was little.

On topic: yeah, you didn't do anything wrong. A good DM can put as much time into the game between sessions as the players (plural) put in during a session. Asking the players not to disrespect that kind of dedication by half-ignoring it isn't out of line at all.

Hell... I remember an old Saturday morning kids show used to have this game you could play live on air using your home phone, and everytime they "opened the lines" they just to say "Now remember everyone, to play you MUST use a touch tone phone. The system doesn't pick up rotary dials."

mishka_shaw
2012-11-20, 07:41 AM
Your friend needs to learn that the DS is "Just a game".

.....one he has to now play alone while everyone else is rocking it up with your campaign.

Story Time
2012-11-20, 07:54 AM
The system doesn't pick up rotary dials.

I have a relative who owns exactly one tele-phone. It is rotary dial, mounted on the wall, and the copper bells ring through the entire house. It's...kind of neat, actually. :smallsmile:



.....one he has to now play alone while everyone else is rocking it up with your campaign.

This is my contention for all games, including video games. It's fun to play video games with some-one else, but if the group activity is the video game then playing Jacks ( bounce a ball and pick up a caltrop ) is rude during the other Player's turn.

And so Mishka is correct. The person so self-centered as to not understand patience and focus must remain isolated. Of course, the group benefits from not having to suffer near a self-centered player, either.

...philosophy is tough. I'm sorry for the mood it brings. :smallfrown:

Arcanist
2012-11-20, 08:05 AM
Turn off all electronic devices.

That feels like you are punishing your tech dependent players with a rule that bothers other people. I use a virtual character sheet (its in my Sig), a "perfect" dice randomizer, 2 laptops, a map making tool for Dungeon Crawls and a complete spell list search engine in case I need to search for a specific spell.

Hell in a far realm game I had use a Spell List Randomizer to truly get a feel for the chaotic nature of the plane. Sometimes I use an Amnesia themed sanity meter for my characters in a game that has Sanity, HoH Taint and so on and so forth. Even without any of that stuff, I still have my ipad which stores a link to one of my Dropbox that has all of my Character sheets and use an app that auto-rolls all my actions with the press of a button.

I have all my non-school, non-D&D stuff on my Desktop.

...THAT! and I hate the sound of dice rolling against a hard object. I used to go to a Catholic School and the sound of hard objects against wood just sounds... painful to me :smallfrown:

mishka_shaw
2012-11-20, 08:26 AM
2 laptops

Is that two as a DM or a player? Quite curious as to how you fit that on a table.
Than again you might not use miniatures and battlemats in which case fair enough....or you have a huge table.

Ozfer
2012-11-20, 09:00 AM
This is going to sound rude, but it's my honest belief that a player either needs to listen to the DM, or leave. The DM puts so much effort into the game, that it seems mind-blowingly rude not to treat that with respect.

After all, all of the DM's work goes into your entertainment.

Story Time
2012-11-20, 09:11 AM
...to some-what respond to Arcanist:

It's just a difference of play style and philosophy. If the group of friends is fine with that, then great. I...can't really help with the psychological conditioning regarding sharp noises made by dice. Sorry. :smallfrown:

For me, I just realized that I'd rather the Party ( the Table Party ) look at each others' faces rather than computer screens. I know, I messed around with keeping every-thing digital for a while. I thought it was efficient! A search engine would've been swift.

...and then I realized that no-one was having fun because every-one was staring near-sightedly into their displays. That Solitaire icon is so easy to click on!

So I forced my-self to make print-outs and take notes in pencil. It took longer, but the focus returned to the center of the table again. ...the dice, when rolled. ( Would Fuzzy / Pillow Dice work to soften the noise? ) The social aspect soared just by keeping out distractions. I, my-self, forced my-self to turn off my mobile phone and let the answering machine catch the ground line. Some of my players noticed more than others, but it really made them act like I was paying attention to them. That's part of the point of gaming. Sure, fun, but if the relation-ships aren't there neither will the fun be.

Do I advocate abandonment of technology? No way. :smallbiggrin: Play-By-Post games thrive on electronic character sheets and random number programs. I use them. I also like making digital images to develop mood; a process much more efficient than drawing, scanning, digitally inking, et al.

...but for the in-person stuff I feel that it's important to go out of my way to print the sheets / charts, set the table with books, and break out the kerosene lamps ( occasionally; for mood ). If I treat my Players like their presence is important to me then they tend to return the favor.

I also use a kitchen timer with a bell to keep the off-topic chit-chat to a minimum.

Traab
2012-11-20, 09:25 AM
That feels like you are punishing your tech dependent players with a rule that bothers other people. I use a virtual character sheet (its in my Sig), a "perfect" dice randomizer, 2 laptops, a map making tool for Dungeon Crawls and a complete spell list search engine in case I need to search for a specific spell.

Hell in a far realm game I had use a Spell List Randomizer to truly get a feel for the chaotic nature of the plane. Sometimes I use an Amnesia themed sanity meter for my characters in a game that has Sanity, HoH Taint and so on and so forth. Even without any of that stuff, I still have my ipad which stores a link to one of my Dropbox that has all of my Character sheets and use an app that auto-rolls all my actions with the press of a button.

I have all my non-school, non-D&D stuff on my Desktop.

...THAT! and I hate the sound of dice rolling against a hard object. I used to go to a Catholic School and the sound of hard objects against wood just sounds... painful to me :smallfrown:

See, that stuff would be ok, because its game related. If, on the other hand, you had your ipod in your ears listening to whatever, were watching a movie on netflix, and were texting a friend, I would have to slap you. Err, I mean ask you to stop. By slapping you.

Arcanist
2012-11-20, 10:01 AM
...to some-what respond to Arcanist:

It's just a difference of play style and philosophy. If the group of friends is fine with that, then great. I...can't really help with the psychological conditioning regarding sharp noises made by dice. Sorry. :smallfrown:

For me, I just realized that I'd rather the Party ( the Table Party ) look at each others' faces rather than computer screens. I know, I messed around with keeping every-thing digital for a while. I thought it was efficient! A search engine would've been swift.

...and then I realized that no-one was having fun because every-one was staring near-sightedly into their displays. That Solitaire icon is so easy to click on!

So I forced my-self to make print-outs and take notes in pencil. It took longer, but the focus returned to the center of the table again. ...the dice, when rolled. ( Would Fuzzy / Pillow Dice work to soften the noise? ) The social aspect soared just by keeping out distractions. I, my-self, forced my-self to turn off my mobile phone and let the answering machine catch the ground line. Some of my players noticed more than others, but it really made them act like I was paying attention to them. That's part of the point of gaming. Sure, fun, but if the relation-ships aren't there neither will the fun be.

Do I advocate abandonment of technology? No way. :smallbiggrin: Play-By-Post games thrive on electronic character sheets and random number programs. I use them. I also like making digital images to develop mood; a process much more efficient than drawing, scanning, digitally inking, et al.

...but for the in-person stuff I feel that it's important to go out of my way to print the sheets / charts, set the table with books, and break out the kerosene lamps ( occasionally; for mood ). If I treat my Players like their presence is important to me then they tend to return the favor.

I also use a kitchen timer with a bell to keep the off-topic chit-chat to a minimum.

By all means use what you feel safe with. I'm a responsible and respectable enough person to the point where if I was sitting in on your games I would have my focus 100% on the DM's story. My face is only on the screen when I'm in combat and need to check on something, need to make a roll or just read something back to my DM (I use a audio device to play back any ruling my DM makes). I'm actually trying to help my DM with my tools if s/he is messing up or something :smallsmile: I do however agree with you that chit-chat needs to be cut to a minimum... I cannot tell you how many times a player has actually gotten up and asked me if they could play with my ipad while we play. I even had to create a rule that states if you are distracted when combat starts you are automatically booted into a surprise round and are dazed until you place your vision back on the mat :smallannoyed:

In my opinion that is very generous. I know DM's that would flat out rip up your character sheet if you are playing distracted :smallsigh:


See, that stuff would be ok, because its game related. If, on the other hand, you had your ipod in your ears listening to whatever, were watching a movie on netflix, and were texting a friend, I would have to slap you. Err, I mean ask you to stop. By slapping you.

My laptops doesn't have Silverlight, I uninstalled all the games, only one of them has itunes and that library only have my collection of ominous music :smallsigh: these are for School, Notes (School, Business, Politics, Reading and D20) and D&D.

valadil
2012-11-20, 10:19 AM
I'm with the DM 100% on this. If the game isn't entertaining enough without bringing along extra video games, don't show up.

thompur
2012-11-20, 02:33 PM
When I first read the OP I thought 'DS' meant Dragon Shaman. "What does he have against Dragon Shamen?" I definitely support you on the Gameboy rule.

Daemonhawk
2012-11-20, 05:22 PM
Hey Giants, thanks for all the replies.
As it would turn out, they ALL wanted to play on their DSes.
Welp, there goes that group.
But thanks for reassuring me that I did handle it well.

Riverdance
2012-11-20, 05:42 PM
Hey Giants, thanks for all the replies.
As it would turn out, they ALL wanted to play on their DSes.
Welp, there goes that group.
But thanks for reassuring me that I did handle it well.

Sorry to hear that. As everyone else has said, it's perfectly within your bounds to ask them not to, and frankly rude of them to try in the first place. Hope you find some players that work.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-11-20, 06:24 PM
Let me put it this way. If there was, say, a co-op mode for Final Fantasy Tactics, would you automatically switch to another game until someone says "come on man, it's your turn!"?

If you would, then you either have ADD/ADHD (I recommend something that can keep your hands busy and you really don't have to pay attention to, like knitting or crocheting or even just fingering a ball), are inconsiderate of other people who have to wait an extra minute while you check every monster's statblock to see what changed, or both.