Craft (Surgery)

[Ammutseba]

The DM has okayed this skill for high-op play starting at 6th level. I took it because it fits the character's concept as a monstrous mundane healer and surgeon created by the dreams of a slumbering daelkyr.

Now I want to use the skill. As proficiently as possible for the scope of the game, without overshadowing my teammates, and with optimization but without obvious cheese.

So far, this has allowed me to make masterwork body parts for bonuses on skill checks. The character's own hands are masterwork artisan's tools that enhance Craft (Surgery), Heal and Profession (Surgeon) checks.

What else might I be able to do with it? What sorts of "items" could I make with this skill?


Post script: Hello, Sir P.

[Socratov]

You might want to lookinto fashioning grafts. And if you read Terry Pratchett you might want to draw inspiration from Igors. Then you go nuts and make monstrosities, makign doors creak and talk with a lisp as well as turning up exactly behind people when the ask for you.

[Arcanist]

Check out Chaostech. It has Chaostech surgical procedures. Pretty awesome if I say so myself... Especially the mental implants :smallamused:

[Hirax]

Surgery as a craft skill doesn't make sense. Surgery, when described in game, as far as I know has always used the heal skill. Have a look at the necrotic cyst spell in Libra Mortis for an example.

As far as optimizing the check, be a cleric, and keep guidance of the avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) at ready. The best you're going to be able to hope for at level 6 is hitting the DC 50 check to get someone a day's worth of rest in an hour (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#heal). Throw in ranks, an ability modifier, and some circumstance bonuses, and you're pretty close.

[Ammutseba]

You might want to lookinto fashioning grafts. And if you read Terry Pratchett you might want to draw inspiration from Igors. Then you go nuts and make monstrosities, makign doors creak and talk with a lisp as well as turning up exactly behind people when the ask for you.
The campaign has not reached a level at which grafts are viable. We're ECL 6, and I do not read Terry Pratchett.


Check out Chaostech. It has Chaostech surgical procedures. Pretty awesome if I say so myself... Especially the mental implants :smallamused:

Where do I find that resource? Google isn't being very helpful.


Surgery as a craft skill doesn't make sense. Surgery, when described in game, as far as I know has always used the heal skill. Have a look at the necrotic cyst spell in Libra Mortis for an example.

As far as optimizing the check, be a cleric, and keep guidance of the avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) at ready. The best you're going to be able to hope for at level 6 is hitting the DC 50 check to get someone a day's worth of rest in an hour (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#heal). Throw in ranks, an ability modifier, and some circumstance bonuses, and you're pretty close.

Heal is for fixing people when they're broken. As near as I can tell, Craft (Surgery) is mostly for improving people when they aren't broken (in physically threatening ways).

I have ranks in Heal. I'm not keen on optimizing it. I'm trying to use Surgery for passive team support as a secondary character focus. My primary focus is tanking and damage.

I'm limited due to other parts of the character's build. Levels in cleric will not be happening. If I haven't built myself into a corner, I'll be building up prerequisites and becoming a tank for 4 levels, and then switching into monstrumologist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9668220) for levels 11 through 20. I have no open feat slots, and I won't have any until at least level 15. I'm strapped for skill points, and I've spent all but 333 of my gold.

Really, all I'd like help with is determining what possible uses Craft (Surgery) could have, as I'd like to use it as well as I can. Ideas on what sorts of "items" I can make, what may qualify as very simple, typical, high-quality and complex or superior items, for instance.

[Garwain]

Well, there are some surgical procedures that could be beneficial:

- implanting a second liver and gain dwarf-like resistances
- extension of certain limbs (nono, I don't mean those you see in internet ads)
- implanting dwarf eyes to gain darkvision

now that I'm thinking of.... there are a lot a racial features that could be gained surgically. And racial qualities are rarely overpowered.

In a more offensive way:
- permanent blindness
- permanent disguise bonus
- bleeding effects
- bonus on sneak attacks? I mean... you're a surgeon!

[Arcanist]

Where do I find that resource? Google isn't being very helpful.

If I told you, I'd have to Mind Rape you... :smallamused:

But seriously, I can't post it in this thread and I'd rather not experience any trouble today.

I will hint you towards some keywords I used in my search though: "Chaostech" "PDF" "Monte" "Cook"

Search it into Google and that is all I'll say. Eventually you will find an in browser PDF view of it.

[Ammutseba]

Well, there are some surgical procedures that could be beneficial:

- implanting a second liver and gain dwarf-like resistances
- extension of certain limbs (nono, I don't mean those you see in internet ads)
- implanting dwarf eyes to gain darkvision

now that I'm thinking of.... there are a lot a racial features that could be gained surgically. And racial qualities are rarely overpowered.

That's all rather cool, although I can see where having Graft Flesh would help along the concept.


In a more offensive way:
- permanent blindness
- permanent disguise bonus
- bleeding effects
- bonus on sneak attacks? I mean... you're a surgeon!

Sneak attack damage will come from monstrumologist classes. That's dandy.

An offensive use for the skill did come up in a backwards way: if you fail a Craft check too badly, you "destroy the raw materials." In this case, that's lends itself to some fairly gruesome imagery, which Sir P seems to agree with the concepts behind. (Specifically, he said "ew" when I asked him about it.)

Creating permanent blindness and bleeding effects is certainly new, though. Tell me, do you think those would be simple, typical, high-quality or superior items? :smallbiggrin:

[GeriSch]

- implanting a second liver and gain dwarf-like resistances
- extension of certain limbs (nono, I don't mean those you see in internet ads)
- implanting dwarf eyes to gain darkvision



Hey, how about shortening your legs to dwarf size to gain dwarven stability? :smallbiggrin:

[Socratov]

The campaign has not reached a level at which grafts are viable. We're ECL 6, and I do not read Terry Pratchett.


ell, crafting your own could give you guys flight and the like, it will take time and other resources....

oh, and Igors are able to (according to wikipedia):

Skills

While they are extremely diligent in using their surgical skills among themselves they are also careful to share them among the people around their homes, possibly in a bid to make sure that when the torch-bearing mob comes along to kill the latest freak of science the resident Igor will be spared. The tradition is that people helped by an Igor later allow it to have a "rummage around" for useful organs after they die. If the Igor is turned away from the house, no Igor will help that village again. The Igor clan motto is, "What goeth around, cometh around... or thtopth."

Beyond surgery, Igors have an advanced knowledge of what they call "bio-artificing" (a kind of genetic engineering which, on the Discworld, involves "very small stitches") and often create "pets" for themselves, such as dogs made from various dog breeds and a rabbit with human ears growing out of it. A hamster created by such methods apparently broke out of its cage and chewed off a man's leg before flying away. An Igor's expertise in human surgery also extends to the veterinary world; there is known to be one horse in Ankh-Morpork, owned by Hobson's livery stables (which employs an Igor), with a longitudinal seam extending the entire circumference of the animal, sewn together from the remains of a particularly nasty collision. It is advisable, when asking an Igor about his job, not to allow your imagination to follow his answer all the way. It is also hinted in Unseen Academicals that their knowledge goes beyond the biological, for instance they know the secret of creating gold.

They have a strange ability to be at your side (or just behind you) when you call them, and at a door before you knock. Their other ability, returning to a room unnoticed while having previously left through a door, is possibly a spoof of the common bloopers and mistakes in old horror movies. They also have a knack for making any door they open creak; Igors who take up long-term residence in a particular place will often cultivate these creaks via careful lack of oiling.


So yeah crafting other's bodyparts for yourself/partymembers is a great way to use the skill. with healing 10 ranks you can take the feat graft flesh to make a graft you can sell/use/anything...