Gunslinger Deeds

[N3TS3cure]

Just wanted to ask a quick question.

On every gunslinger build I see, people seem to have selected specific deeds at every level that more deeds become available, as if they are selecting spells. Thing is, I haven't seen a single rule in the PRD that says you must choose one deed out of the 3 you get at "X" level. In fact, some say that those deeds are always-on as long as you have 1 grit point, which further makes it look like you shouldn't pick and choose.

Is there a ruling on this or am I just reading over it and not seeing it? Do you guys pick deeds every time or do you just use any and every deed available at your level?

[FatherMalkav]

You read it right, and you gain access to certain deeds at certain levels, not pick them like spells.

Unless, of course, I'm wrong too.

[Twilightwyrm]

You are both right and wrong. For a standard gunslinger, you will be getting every Deed at every level you can access. Like class features powered by grit if you will. However, the Gunslinger also has several archetypes that grant you alternative Deeds to some of the deeds you gain at various levels. Therefore, what the guide are most likely saying is that, in terms of the overall archetype, it is worth (or not worth) giving up the general deed for the specific deed that comes with the archetype. It's not like after you've taken the archetype you have much of a choice, but it does make for a good pro and con calculus for people interested in the class.

[dk.hexblade]

It's generally the case that they are actually recommending which ones you should bother using, and which you should consider for True Grit or Signature Deed, not which ones you should take.

[Chaosvii7]

Slightly unrelated, but what is the Gunslinger's rank on the class tier list? High Tier 4, right? It's good at ranged combat and has some quirky tricks, but if it can't solve the problem by shooting it, it's pretty lacking is how I interpret it.

[AfroDyyd]

Gunslinger is tier 5. they do dps well on later levels and there are classes that do its job better. my gm told me he was fine with me playing gunslinger but would prefer i play something else since he thinks it's under powered. but we'll see. Of course a well optimized one rises by maybe even 2 ranks. And yes you get all the deeds and some are replaced by different deeds when taking archetypes.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

The gunslinger is sort of an odd case, in terms of power. In the general, whitewalled world of the tier system, it's certainly a tier five, for the reasons others have posted. However, in a setting like PFS (or any other game where a GM adheres to a published module religiously), it can end up overpowered, simply because some encounters weren't designed with the gunslinger in mind. Obviously, it won't compete with an optimized character of a higher tier, handwaving entire story arcs in a standard action and so forth, but a gunslinger right out of the box can blow away a lot of encounters not only in comparison to other mundanes, but even in comparison to unoptimized characters from tier 1 and tier 2 classes. I don't mean this to say that it's place in the tier ranking is wrong, just that it's worth remembering that some of the APG classes not only can, but will really wreak havoc on some of the earlier Pathfinder modules without trying. Since it's an inherently less powerful class than, for instance, the summoner or magus, the gunslinger won't be as much of an offender, but there are still times when it's painfully obvious that an encounter was not designed with the core mechanic of the gunslinger in mind.

[JusticeZero]

So.. they're mediocre as a damage dealer and don't have any other utility? Beyond "no utility", what's the main offending problems?

[grarrrg]

So.. they're mediocre as a damage dealer and don't have any other utility? Beyond "no utility", what's the main offending problems?

Compare them to a Fighter.
Gunslinger is MUCH more focused in it's method of damage, and can (probably) out-damage an equivalent Fighter.
Gunslingers have 4 skills/level whereas Fighters only get 2 skills/level.

Fighters are not "locked" into using a Firearm, they can use just about any weapon ever fairly well.
Fighters have better Defensive options than Gunslingers.


So in-combat they are very similar to Fighters.
Out of combat they are slightly better than Fighters.

Overall, if the Fighter is bad at something, so is the Gunslinger.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Slightly unrelated, but what is the Gunslinger's rank on the class tier list? High Tier 4, right? It's good at ranged combat and has some quirky tricks, but if it can't solve the problem by shooting it, it's pretty lacking is how I interpret it.They're slightly dependent on what level of equipment they are able to get, or the size of the combat area they're fighting in. If they get an advanced firearm early (revolver, double-barreled shotgun, pepperbox rifle), they can start destroying stuff really really fast as they get to take multiple touch attacks a round, with deadly aim maxed out. If they're exploring catacombs they can easily get their touch attacks.

In general they're a really strong DPS option because they're full BAB, can add dex to damage, and are ranged so less movement is required for full attacks. There is also the fact a vast majority of monsters have their AC based off of natural armor more than almost anything else.