Best One-Handed Simple Weapon?

[killem2]

From any source 3.0/3.5/Dragon/Dungeon?

I'm just trying to squeeze what I can out of my Goliath Cleric before this session starts. I just can't find anything. I'm looking for maximum damage output for what I get.

[Forrestfire]

I've always been a fan of the Morningstar, for dealing with some damage reductions. Also, it's lighter than the heavy mace with the same damage stats.

[Balmas]

Best one-handed simple weapon is the morningstar. You get a good amount of damage, two damage types, for less weight than the mace. You'll only run into problems if you run into a foe with a fondness for sundering weapons.

However, as a goliath, if you're going for damage, it might be of benefit to look outside the simple weapons category, or at least outside the single-handed category.

I assume that since you're looking at single-handed weapons, that means you're going for the shield route, and thus are a fairly low level cleric. My advice to you is, as soon as you can, purchase a +1 animated shield and upgrade to a larger, two-handed weapon. This will allow you to get a larger bonus to your damage from your larger goliath strength and stature.

Also, look into level adjustment buy-off; as a cleric, that +1 LA from being a Goliath will affect into your spellcasting. The sooner you can get that taken off, the better.

Best of luck!

[Siosilvar]

Also note that technically you can't cast spells with a one-handed weapon and any shield heavier than a buckler. I haven't seen any DMs enforce it, but you need a free hand to cast somatic-componented spells.

A buckler is definitely a free hand. A light shield might not be, but lets you hold your weapon in that hand - there is some confusion, though, about whether moving a weapon between hands is a free action or a move action. Best check with your DM if you plan on using a shield.

In any case, morningstar is your best bet for reasons mentioned above.

[Darrin]

Morningstar's biggest weakness: zombies. For those:

Heavy sickle from the Planar Handbook: 1d8 slashing damage.

And, oddly enough, even though it's a sickle, druids are not proficient with it.

[Gerrtt]

Morningstar's biggest weakness: zombies. For those:

Heavy sickle from the Planar Handbook: 1d8 slashing damage.

And, oddly enough, even though it's a sickle, druids are not proficient with it.

No odder than them not being proficient with Great Clubs.

[killem2]

Thanks all, I figured that was it. I was having trouble finding anything myself.

I am a level 1 cleric you are correct, I am planning on going to a great sword with animated shield as soon as I can. (I have a miniature with the greatsword, and a stone giant mini with a greatsword I attached)

So when I start getting into radiant servant I'll be good.

[cidolphus]

now doesn't two damage types with "and" between them get stopped by more DR than a single damage type? morningstar is suk. look at the dagger : slashing OR piercing, that's how you get around DR, by choosing your damage type.
maybe shortspear, its one-handed, one damage type, and throwable.

[Toliudar]

now doesn't two damage types with "and" between them get stopped by more DR than a single damage type? morningstar is suk. look at the dagger : slashing OR piercing, that's how you get around DR, by choosing your damage type.
maybe shortspear, its one-handed, one damage type, and throwable.

I don't think that that's how it works. In theory, "and" weapons deals damage that has both elements simultaneously. "Or" weapons require you to choose a damage type with each attack. For instance, a bite is bludgeoning, slashing and piercing, all at the same time.

In practice, this is boring and rarely comes up, and most people I've gamed with ignore the and/or distinction.

[cidolphus]

word, so you ignore it. i think the "and" and "or" are significant, and i don't ignore it, or agree with recommending a weapon as good "when the dm ignores it's downsides".


edit: bite is bludgeoning? sauce please

[Wyntonian]

Here's your sauce. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#bite)


Bite

The creature attacks with its mouth, dealing piercing, slashing, and bludgeoning damage.

[Ketiara]

word, so you ignore it. i think the "and" and "or" are significant, and i don't ignore it, or agree with recommending a weapon as good "when the dm ignores it's downsides".


edit: bite is bludgeoning? sauce please

If you look at the morningstar, its a heavy steel ball with spikes on it... so if the spikes dont bite on you because you are a skeleton or something, ill be damed if the heavy steel ball wont do a bit of crushing damage... so its piercing AND Bludgeoning all at once! not or...

[Tantaburs]

word, so you ignore it. i think the "and" and "or" are significant, and i don't ignore it, or agree with recommending a weapon as good "when the dm ignores it's downsides".


edit: bite is bludgeoning? sauce please


How is doing both weapons types a downside?

[SowZ]

How is doing both weapons types a downside?

I think he thinks that if the creature has DR to ANY of the damage types done, the DR applies.

[ericgrau]

I'm a fan of sickles for tripping. And goliaths get a +4. When you trip with a weapon you do not provoke an attack of opportunity, so you might as well get a sickle even before you get improved trip thanks to the +4.

For DR carry a backup mace or morning star. Having 2 weapons won't be costly to maintain until level 11 or so. Even then you might have a masterwork or +1 backup farily cheaply and it won't be that much worse. Only if a certain enemy type becomes very common does your backup weapon change into your main weapon.

[Crake]

I think he thinks that if the creature has DR to ANY of the damage types done, the DR applies.

If your weapon deals multiple types of damage, as noted by saying *and*, then all the damage types are used to overcome damage reduction equally, eg. Morningstars bludgeoning and piercing in the same attack. If it says *or* on the other hand, when combating a creatures with damage reduction you can only have one of the damage types contribute to overcoming the damage reduction, eg. Either stabbing someone with a dagger for piercing damage or slashing them for slashing damage.

[killem2]

I'm a fan of sickles for tripping. And goliaths get a +4. When you trip with a weapon you do not provoke an attack of opportunity, so you might as well get a sickle even before you get improved trip thanks to the +4.

For DR carry a backup mace or morning star. Having 2 weapons won't be costly to maintain until level 11 or so. Even then you might have a masterwork or +1 backup farily cheaply and it won't be that much worse. Only if a certain enemy type becomes very common does your backup weapon change into your main weapon.

Is there a simple weapon that lets you trip?

[cidolphus]

yes, that is what i think. if one of a weapons damage types meets appropriate DR, then DR is applied. the morninstar is suck.

also, wow so bite is the gimpiest attack evar. thanks for the sauce btw, will be using all bite attacks correctly in the future.

to the original poster, if the weapon is that important, get war domain or drop a feat and get something exotic. likely though, won't be important in a few levels.

edit: check phb page 114-115 on damage types for weapons. "or" is clearly superior to "and" in cases where you face DR. that is all.

[Tantaburs]

yes, that is what i think. if one of a weapons damage types meets appropriate DR, then DR is applied. the morninstar is suck.

also, wow so bite is the gimpiest attack evar. thanks for the sauce btw, will be using all bite attacks correctly in the future.

to the original poster, if the weapon is that important, get war domain or drop a feat and get something exotic. likely though, won't be important in a few levels.

edit: check phb page 114-115 on damage types for weapons. "or" is clearly superior to "and" in cases where you face DR. that is all.

From the PHB pg 114

Some weapons deal damage of multiple types (for example, the
morningstar, which deals both bludgeoning and piercing damage).
If a weapon is of two types, the damage it deals is not half one type
and half another; all of it is both types. Therefore, a creature would
have to be immune to both types of damage to ignore any of the
damage from such a weapon.

A morning star deals full damage to creatures that are immune to piercing, full damage to a creature that is immune to blundgeoning and no damage to a creature that is immune to both bludgeoning and piercing.

A morning star bypasses DR Piercing and DR Bludgeoning but not any other type of dr.

I think you are either mistaken on how DR works or misread the writing in the PHB

[KillianHawkeye]

@cidolphus: You are incorrect. That is all.

[Answerer]

A bite ignores all "damage type" forms of DR, for example. You need "material-based," "alignment-based," magic, or "perfect" DR.

[Dusk Eclipse]

For some reason I think cidolphus is reading DR x/Piercing meaning that Piercing damage is blocked by the DR.

[KillianHawkeye]

For some reason I think cidolphus is reading DR x/Piercing meaning that Piercing damage is blocked by the DR.

He is reading something backwards, that's for sure.

[Curmudgeon]

Is there a simple weapon that lets you trip?
Sure: your unarmed strike. Of course, you're probably going to provoke attacks of opportunity with that even if you're proficient with all simple weapons.

[Namfuak]

The disadvantage of "and" rather than "or" is that if you are fighting something like an ooze, the morning star would split it and you cannot choose to keep it from doing so. It's basically a corner case though. As a cleric you should probably just go with the morningstar.

[cidolphus]

yup. went back and reread the whole thing, and you are right. i misread it.

[ericgrau]

Is there a simple weapon that lets you trip?
Yes, the sickle. The sickle is a simple light weapon and it lets you trip.


A sickle can be used to make trip attacks.

[HunterOfJello]

Punching Dagger is useful too if you need to do a Coup De Grace.

[Rubik]

A combination spiked/regular gauntlet (one on each hand) is the best, because it can be used while doing something else with that hand, and it can also be used to trip. For instance, you have a free hand for the purposes of spellcasting, or you can hold another weapon's hilt and choose to punch with the gauntlet instead. You can also wield a two-hander with reach while still threatening adjacent spaces.

[Spuddles]

Scythes are great on clerics. x4 crit damage, get auto crits with OP cleric spells.

[Rubik]

Scythes are great on clerics. x4 crit damage, get auto crits with OP cleric spells.I'm fairly sure those are exotic, not simple.

Why, I've no idea. I mean, farmers use them all the time. They're used as farm implements because they're easy to use. You could make a case for "balance reasons," but given the fact that there are simple weapons better than most exotics, I doubt that'd stick.

[Spuddles]

I'm fairly sure those are exotic, not simple.

Why, I've no idea. I mean, farmers use them all the time. They're used as farm implements because they're easy to use. You could make a case for "balance reasons," but given the fact that there are simple weapons better than most exotics, I doubt that'd stick.

Whoa, I had no idea they were martial. I could have sworn they were simple. Maybe 3.0...? But they definitely belong in the martial category, according to WotC weapon rules. 2 handed martial weapons do average 6-7 damage, unless crit is modified, in which case 2d4 for falchion/scythe.

[Rubik]

Whoa, I had no idea they were martial. I could have sworn they were simple. Maybe 3.0...? But they definitely belong in the martial category, according to WotC weapon rules. 2 handed martial weapons do average 6-7 damage, unless crit is modified, in which case 2d4 for falchion/scythe.Yeah, they're martial, not exotic or simple.

Still, it's stupid when a lot of exotic weapons are cruddier than simple ones.

[Spuddles]

Yeah, they're martial, not exotic or simple.

Still, it's stupid when a lot of exotic weapons are cruddier than simple ones.

My guess is one of the hacks, like SKR or Finch, decided a lot of the thrash exotic weapons should be exotic because monks use them and monks come from "the east" or whatever.

[hymer]

To be fair, 'exotic' doesn't mean 'better'. They are weapons that the campaign's average fighter hasn't learned because they are out of a culture different from his. This doesn't have to make them better weapons.

[Clistenes]

I'm fairly sure those are exotic, not simple.

Why, I've no idea. I mean, farmers use them all the time. They're used as farm implements because they're easy to use. You could make a case for "balance reasons," but given the fact that there are simple weapons better than most exotics, I doubt that'd stick.

The scythe is good and easy to use for the purpose it was made for: harvesting wheat or barley, but it makes a very clumsy weapon; it is so difficult to use as a weapon that it should be exotic not martial.

[Rubik]

To be fair, 'exotic' doesn't mean 'better'. They are weapons that the campaign's average fighter hasn't learned because they are out of a culture different from his. This doesn't have to make them better weapons.But what if my fighter is from Kara-tur? Why does he have to spend a feat on a weapon that's more useless than a dagger just for flavor?

[hymer]

You'll need a Kara-tur ACF for fighters that replaces their WPs with a different list. Isn't there one? There ought to be.

Edit: Or a dip in monk, of course.

[Thurbane]

I think the OPs question has been answered, but here's a list of simple (and martial) weapons that I compiled a while back: [3.5] Simple & Martial Weapon List (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203540)

[Gwendol]

As long as you pick a weapon with which you can PA and use 2-handed you should be fine. Using a goliath means the weapon you wield will be Large.

[Gwendol]

To be fair, 'exotic' doesn't mean 'better'. They are weapons that the campaign's average fighter hasn't learned because they are out of a culture different from his. This doesn't have to make them better weapons.

Like the bastard sword? It's just a random denomination demanding a feat tax for certain types of weapons (or forcing clerics to pick an odd deity and the war domain).

[DeltaEmil]

To be fair, 'exotic' doesn't mean 'better'. They are weapons that the campaign's average fighter hasn't learned because they are out of a culture different from his. This doesn't have to make them better weapons.Actually, exotic weapons are supposed to be better rules-wise.

It's just that practically none are worth the exotic weapon feat, except for greathorn minotaur greathammer and spiked chain.

[Spuddles]

To be fair, 'exotic' doesn't mean 'better'. They are weapons that the campaign's average fighter hasn't learned because they are out of a culture different from his. This doesn't have to make them better weapons.

And that's what we call bad game design.

[Rubik]

Actually, exotic weapons are supposed to be better rules-wise.

It's just that practically none are worth the exotic weapon feat, except for greathorn minotaur greathammer and spiked chain.Don't forget the spinning sword and the daggertail/chain whip/kusari gama.

[KillianHawkeye]

This is pretty much a case of different game designers having a different idea of what something means. That's why a couple of weapons are exotic because they are genuinely better than standard weapons, while the rest are exotic only because of their perceived rarity in the "typical" game setting.

[Badgerish]

I was under the impression that a Goliath was a 'Monstrous Humanoid' and thus proficient with all simple and martial weapons, or is that only if you have at least 1 racial hit dice?
(same with Half-Giants, who are 'Giants')

[Clistenes]

You know which weapons should be simple? Hammers and axes, maybe picks too. They are easy to use, and every peasant has some experience using them as work tools.

Of course the advantage of sword over axes isn't damage, it's that they are usually quicker, more versatile and allows a better defense, and all that isn't portrayed by the differences between simple and martial weapons...

[DeltaEmil]

I was under the impression that a Goliath was a 'Monstrous Humanoid' and thus proficient with all simple and martial weapons, or is that only if you have at least 1 racial hit dice?
(same with Half-Giants, who are 'Giants')Monstrous humanoids are proficient with all simple weapons and any other weapons described in their entry. Since Goliaths have no specific weapons in their entry, they're only naturally proficient with all simple weapons, and have to spend feats to become proficient with martial and exotic weapons, or get a class that grants proficiency in those weapon types.

Giants on the other hand do indeed get proficiency with all simple and martial weapons as well as natural weapons.

Incidently, the entry with the natural weapons lead me to look upon it, and as a result, it seems that outsiders are not proficient with their natural weapons. Woe to the pit fiend, for all its attacks must be reduced by -4 for nonproficiency.

[Clistenes]

Monstrous humanoids are proficient with all simple weapons and any other weapons described in their entry. Since Goliaths have no specific weapons in their entry, they're only naturally proficient with all simple weapons, and have to spend feats to become proficient with martial and exotic weapons, or get a class that grants proficiency in those weapon types.

Giants on the other hand do indeed get proficiency with all simple and martial weapons as well as natural weapons.

Incidently, the entry with the natural weapons lead me to look upon it, and as a result, it seems that outsiders are not proficient with their natural weapons. Woe to the pit fiend, for all its attacks must be reduced by -4 for nonproficiency.

The MM says that every monster is proficient with the weapons and armor it is described using in its entry, so if a fiend is described as having a claw attack, then it is proficient with it.

[mucco]

No odder than them not being proficient with Great Clubs.

No odder than monks not being proficient with Unarmed Strike.

[Talionis]

Small Guantlet

Ingredients:

Aura of Chaos stance (Devoted Spirit 7, minimum of Crusader 15 required).
Imbue Healing feat (Complete Champion, requires healing spells).
Luck Domain (PHB, requires Cleric, Divine Crusader, or other PrC).
A weapon that deals 1d2 damage (Small Guantlet).
Any Conjuration-Healing spell affected by the Imbue Healing feat.


While in the Aura of Chaos stance, cast Faith Healing on yourself (an immediate action healing spell, 2nd level). You now have Imbue Healing (Luck effect) active.

Make an attack roll against anything using the Small Guantlet. If you hit, roll damage. Because you have only two possible outcomes, one of two things will happen:
You roll a natural 2, triggering Aura of Chaos. Roll again, adding the second result. Keep rerolling if the subsequent results are also 2.
You roll a 1, triggering Imbue Healing (Luck effect). The die is now a 2, triggering Aura of Chaos.

Infinite damage.

Hard to beat near infinite damage!

[Gnorman]

Small Guantlet

Ingredients:

Aura of Chaos stance (Devoted Spirit 7, minimum of Crusader 15 required).
Imbue Healing feat (Complete Champion, requires healing spells).
Luck Domain (PHB, requires Cleric, Divine Crusader, or other PrC).
A weapon that deals 1d2 damage (Small Guantlet).
Any Conjuration-Healing spell affected by the Imbue Healing feat.


While in the Aura of Chaos stance, cast Faith Healing on yourself (an immediate action healing spell, 2nd level). You now have Imbue Healing (Luck effect) active.

Make an attack roll against anything using the Small Guantlet. If you hit, roll damage. Because you have only two possible outcomes, one of two things will happen:
You roll a natural 2, triggering Aura of Chaos. Roll again, adding the second result. Keep rerolling if the subsequent results are also 2.
You roll a 1, triggering Imbue Healing (Luck effect). The die is now a 2, triggering Aura of Chaos.

Infinite damage.

Hard to beat near infinite damage!

Except that it doesn't come online until the high teens, at which point the leap attack barbarian or the ubercharger has been dealing ridiculously high damage for about five to ten levels. Nigh-infinite is nice, but it's also significant overkill. Of course, you're still a Crusader all the way up, so it's not all bad.

[White_Drake]

For exotic weapons worth the feat, don't forget the great crossbow! Even better if you port in Pathfinder crossbow feats.

[StreamOfTheSky]

The Dwarven Warpike (Races of Stone) and (pre-errata, which made it useless) the Talenta Sharrash (Eberron Campaign Setting) are both alo pretty good exotic weapons. The Footbow (Races of the Wild) is great for flying archers. The Harpoon (Frostburn) can do some pretty crazy/stupid things by RAW with a little building around. The various boomerangs are excellent just for the Boomerang Daze feat, if your DM bans the adaptive weapon property (otherwise, no reason to actually use boomerangs for it).
IIRC< the Dragonchain from Red Hand of Doom is a reach weapon that can initiate grapples while also still doing decent, lethal, damage (unlike the mancatcher).

Plenty of good exotic weapons out there, they're just surrounded by a lot of garbage.

[chaotician375]

I say short spear. U can use it two handed, PA, stab the life out of a dude, then throw it at his friend 20 ft behind him. Next turn run up, take your spear back, repeat till all are dead.

[The Redwolf]

The various boomerangs are excellent just for the Boomerang Daze feat

Any chance you could say what that feat requires and does?:smallsmile:

[Answerer]

Any chance you could say what that feat requires and does?:smallsmile:
Not sure what it requires, but what it does is right on the tin: it dazes people who get hit by your boomerang attack. There might be a save, I'm not sure.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Save is 10+damage, so with proper building it becomes get a nat 20 or suck.

[Solophoenix]

I say short spear. U can use it two handed, PA, stab the life out of a dude, then throw it at his friend 20 ft behind him. Next turn run up, take your spear back, repeat till all are dead.

That is an excellent visual. Reminds me of Yoda in Revenge of the Sith.

[The Redwolf]

Oh that feat will be very useful... :smallamused: