Dread Necromancer:Star Elf or Human?

[EmperorNortonII]

So, in the game which is apparently not happening this weekend (giving me further time to quibble over details) I finally got a copy of Unapproachable East. This presents a conundrum.

I think I want to shoot up in spell levels as fast as I can until I can become a lich. So, I've pretty much ruled out anything with an LA (though, if you can make a good argument, I'm all ears), and I WILL NOT play a short race. Those conditions leave me with three seemingly good options: spellscale, human, and star elf. Unfortunately, spellscales seem so incredibly goofy I cannot make myself play one. So, we're down to two.

Humans get an extra blob of skill points and a feat. The star elf loses 2 CON and gains 2 CHA. My current build is set up with a human, so the way I look at it, I get more bang for the extra Charisma than I do from Greater Spell Focus, since GSF doesn't improve number of spells known or skills. The -2 Con makes me less survivable, but that's what the other party members are for. I have fear and my blast effect for emergencies, and false life and vampiric touch to limit the liability of low HP.

I also, of course, have a lot of Charisma-based skills, so the +2 Cha also mitigates the skill-point loss. Of course, the drop from Str 14 to 12 can be made up with the occasional Death Knell...

Is there anything I'm missing? It seems like there's no reason to be human in this case.

[zimmerwald1915]

In before someone says "be a human so you don't have to be an elf".

Why are you comparing +2 CHA to Greater Spell Focus? Are there not better feats you can choose to balance the stat increase against?

[EmperorNortonII]

In before someone says "be a human so you don't have to be an elf".

Why are you comparing +2 CHA to Greater Spell Focus? Are there not better feats you can choose to balance the stat increase against?

I was holding off on Chain until 9th level, when I could reasonably justify taking it in-character, since at 6th I couldn't use for another 2 levels. 6th was spent on Black Loir of Moil from Complete Arcane, because my DM has said he isn't worrying about components unless they are truly huge, and when I pointed out that the only downside to it then would be the full-round casting requirement for metamagic, he said ok. I think the damage addition to any necromancy spell I cast is second only to Tomb-Tainted Soul, and requires Spell Focus.

While the Fell feats are nice, I can't use Animate until 8th... and even Drain doesn't seem quite as nice as adding extra damage to Chained spells that already require a full-round action.

[Mithril Leaf]

Couldn't you just be an unseelie fey human and get the best of both worlds?

[Wyntonian]

Out of those, I'd say Star Elf. Boosting your spells known and DC's is pretty damn tasty, and if you end up worrying about 1 hp/level, you're doing it wrong.

That said, if you play a Necropolitan, you are immune to pretty much everything under the sun and can heal yourself with that negative energy touch thing.

[EmperorNortonII]

Out of those, I'd say Star Elf. Boosting your spells known and DC's is pretty damn tasty, and if you end up worrying about 1 hp/level, you're doing it wrong.

That said, if you play a Necropolitan, you are immune to pretty much everything under the sun and can heal yourself with that negative energy touch thing.


Necropolitan also requires a True Resurrect to become a lich, which is the end goal, and I've been pointedly told that there aren't many high-level characters in the world. At 7th, we're wielding some pretty significant influence... which you didn't know, of course. I thought about Necropolitan, but...

Tomb-Tainted Soul lets me heal with negative energy (and survive my 7d4 burst damage), and since I can retrain it out upon lichdom, I don't waist a feat.

[EmperorNortonII]

Couldn't you just be an unseelie fey human and get the best of both worlds?

Maybe? What book(s) should I be looking in for that?

[Namfuak]

Out of those, I'd say Star Elf. Boosting your spells known and DC's is pretty damn tasty, and if you end up worrying about 1 hp/level, you're doing it wrong.

That said, if you play a Necropolitan, you are immune to pretty much everything under the sun and can heal yourself with that negative energy touch thing.

On the other hand he said he wants to become a lich and you can't use the Dread Necromancer capstone to do it if you are Necropolitan. I would generally agree with Star Elf though, you shouldn't dump con completely but you don't need to worry too much about it, especially if you are starting at level 6+. I suppose one important question is whether you expect to actually play past level 20, or if you mean that you are going to become a lich earlier - if it is the latter, you may as well go Necropolitan and dump con.

[EmperorNortonII]

On the other hand he said he wants to become a lich and you can't use the Dread Necromancer capstone to do it if you are Necropolitan. I would generally agree with Star Elf though, you shouldn't dump con completely but you don't need to worry too much about it, especially if you are starting at level 6+. I suppose one important question is whether you expect to actually play past level 20, or if you mean that you are going to become a lich earlier - if it is the latter, you may as well go Necropolitan and dump con.

We aren't playing to 20th, even. If I'm going lich, it has to be of my own volition, with Create Wondrous Item coming out of my own pocket, so to speak.

[Wookie-ranger]

ok my DN build of choice:

Magic-blooded (aka spark) Lesser Aasimar,
+4 CHA
lowlight vision
+2 spor, +2 search, +2 knowledge (arcane), +2 spellcraft
Languages: Common, Celestial
Resistances: 5 acid, 5 cold, 5 electricity
Spell like abilities: 1/day: day light, detect magic, magic aura, read magic
LA:0 :smallbiggrin:

If you want you can add the Unseelie fey, BUT a fey cannot be necropolitan!
the solution, first level feat: Human heritage. that sets your Type to Humanoid (human) despite your template.

Unseelie fey is in Dragon #304

Unseelie fey Spark Lesser Aasimar:
Type: Fey (unless you get Human Heritage)
+6 CHA, -2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con
lowlight vision and darkvision 60ft
Spead: 30 land, x2 flying with freaking bat wings.
+2 spor, +2 search, +2 knowledge (arcane), +2 spellcraft, +2 intimidate
Languages: Common, Celestial
Resistances: 5 acid, 5 cold, 5 electricity
Spell like abilities: 1/day: day light, detect magic, magic aura, read magic
Iron vunlnerability +1d6 from touching iron
DR: HD1-3=0 / 4-7=5/iron / 8-11=10/cold iron / 12+=15/cold iron
Summer Caress (su): permanent magic circle against everything (except animal, beat, fey or magical beast)
LA:0 :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:



Edit: if you are not going to 20, go Necropolitan and dope out at 8 (depending on interpretation)

[EmperorNortonII]

ok my DN build of choice:

Magic-blooded (aka spark) Lesser Aasimar,
+4 CHA
lowlight vision
+2 spor, +2 search, +2 knowledge (arcane), +2 spellcraft
Languages: Common, Celestial
Resistances: 5 acid, 5 cold, 5 electricity
Spell like abilities: 1/day: day light, detect magic, magic aura, read magic
LA:0 :smallbiggrin:

If you want you can add the Unseelie fey, BUT a fey cannot be necropolitan!
the solution, first level feat: Human heritage. that sets your Type to Humanoid (human) despite your template. (depending on interpretation)

#1 Where can magic-blooded be found?
#2 What PrCs do you go into? Negative Energy Burst, the Fear Aura DC, and Advanced Learning seem worth sticking around for.

[Mithril Leaf]

Dragon Magazine #306 has the Magic Blooded Template. Unseelie Fey is in Dragon #304 and the Dragon Compendium.

[Thurbane]

Hellbred (spirit aspect) (FC2 p.77). +2 Cha, -2 Con (which hurts, but won't matter once you finally become undead). Darkvision and (eventually) the ability to see normally in magical darkness and telepathy.

Probably not as solid as plain human, though...

[Wookie-ranger]

#1 Where can magic-blooded be found?
#2 What PrCs do you go into? Negative Energy Burst, the Fear Aura DC, and Advanced Learning seem worth sticking around for.

I am AFB right now but here are some links that might help:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872470/New_Dread_Necromancer_Handbook
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2242.0
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5584.0
http://community.wizards.com/bleak_academy/wiki/Dread_Necromancer%27s_Handbook

the main reason to drop is that most class features after 8 are redundant with what you get from being undead.