Tripping a flying opponent.

[gomipile]

How does this work? A DM I know thinks that trip flat out shouldn't work vs a flying opponent.

From a strict reading of the rules, it seems as though trip would work against a flying opponent, but has the unusual effect of transporting the opponent to the ground immediately no matter how high up they were when tripped.

(Since: "A tripped character is prone." and the description of prone starts with "The character is on the ground.")

[Dr.Epic]

Sorry, upon reading the title, I just had to link this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHMPR7kXJak):smallbiggrin:

[Hirax]

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that tripping a flying opponent causes them to stall. I can't produce a source, though. I'm reasonably confident there is a rule that says creautres that don't rely on limbs or other physical appendages for locomotion (beholders, anyone under the effect of a fly spell) can't be tripped, though.

Edit: ha! Took a shot in the dark, and there it is right in the Rules Compendium, listed in the index and everything:


Tripping a Flying Defender
You can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack. You can trip an opponent only if it is up to one size category larger than you. You can’t trip a burrowing creature, an incorporeal creature, a swimming creature, or a creature that doesn’t rely on limbs for locomotion.
...
A winged creature can be tripped, and if it is, it falls as if it didn’t maintain its minimum forward speed. See Fly, page 92.

[gomipile]

Ah. I just found it in the rules compendium. Silly me, thinking that the PHB should contain the necessary rules for this. :smallbiggrin:

[supermonkeyjoe]

Tripping a flying creature is less sweeping its legs out from under it and more, immobilising its wings or whatever so it falls in a heap on the ground.

[gomipile]

I'm glad to have an official take on this, but I don't like it. even someone under the effect of a Fly spell should have a negative effect of some sort from having one of their limbs yanked really hard. If you were weightless and someone "tripped" you, you'd likely be tumbling end over end for a little while, at least.


That said, we'll likely just use the official Rules Compendium ruling for convenience's sake.

[Crake]

So if a creature doesn't have a minimum forward speed, does this mean it cannot be tripped?

[gomipile]

From reading the Rules Compendium rule, if it requires it's wings to fly, then it would fall as though it could stall. The trip still denies it the effective use of it's wings.

[Toliudar]

Based on the passage shown, it seems like tripping does nothing if the defender has good/perfect maneuverability and/or doesn't use wings to fly.

[gomipile]

Based on the passage shown, it seems like tripping does nothing if the defender has good/perfect maneuverability and/or doesn't use wings to fly.

No, the passage says that if it is tripped, it falls. Then it says how it falls.

[Toliudar]

Good point, Gomipile, and I see the logic of what you're saying.

However, it seems strange that you can, with a successful trip action, cause an air elemental (for example) to plummet 150' towards the ground. Something more extreme than "no effect" and less extreme than causing 150' of movement would be a useful house rule. Suggestions, anyone?

[MesiDoomstalker]

According to the Rules Compendium, any flying creature that does not meet the minimum distance to maintain flight (determined by its maneuverability) falls 150 ft the first round, then 300 ft the next (assuming they failed their DC 20 reflex save to recover).

Personally, I'd let tripping a flying opponent, regardless of maneuverability or mode of flight, is treated as above, with the 150, Ref save then another 300. Makes flying a bit more dangerous.

[Hirax]

Good point, Gomipile, and I see the logic of what you're saying.

However, it seems strange that you can, with a successful trip action, cause an air elemental (for example) to plummet 150' towards the ground. Something more extreme than "no effect" and less extreme than causing 150' of movement would be a useful house rule. Suggestions, anyone?

No, because air elementals don't depend on limbs for locomotion, thus they cannot be tripped.

[Seharvepernfan]

Suggestions, anyone?

If they don't have a minimum forward speed, and are tripped, just have them "stand" still until their next turn. Generally this will only matter if they are tripped during an AoO or a readied action.

[animewatcha]

Depending upon whats going on. Strength check to keep them in place if at a diagonal angle or strength check to pull them closer to the earth ( reverse bull rush ? ) if the puller is angled right?

[Ashtagon]

Way I play it...

If it uses a body part (typically wing) to fly, you can trip it. Tripping a flying creature causes it to lose its next move action and the use of its wing (or other body part used to fly) for the next round.

If the creature does not use a body part to fly, tripping has no effect on a flying creature

If the tripped creature has no minimum forward speed, the effect is typically no wing attacks and no move action. If it has a minimum forward speed, the trip attack will typically also cause it to fall. Assuming it was high enough not to crash land in a single round, it can attempt to recover flight on its next turn.

[Slipperychicken]

When you trip a flying creature, you slam your weapon into it so hard it slams the flier down into to earth, prone. God of War style.