Skill Challenge Question

[Unseenmal]

During a skill challenge, if someone assists you but fails to roll high enough, does that count as a failure in the challenge?

For example, you need 6 successes before 3 failures while trying to help a farmer who is trapped under his overturned cart. Someone is going to roll an athletics check to try to lift the cart and another PC rolls to assist but fails.

Or you are trying to help a person who is injured and you are going to roll Heal check to help them. Another PC rolls to assist but, again, fails.

I would think no, this does not count as 1 of the failures of the challenge since the actual challenge roll is being made by another player, they are just not getting the assist.

Is this clarified in any of the books somewhere so I can show the other players and DM? We've failed every challenge so far as a result of this ruling.

[Kurald Galain]

During a skill challenge, if someone assists you but fails to roll high enough, does that count as a failure in the challenge?
No, but the person being helped gets a -2 to the roll in 4.0, and a -1 to the roll in 4.4.

Note that statistically speaking, you should never assist: it is pretty much always better to use a skill of your own.

[Akodo Makama]

No, but the person being helped gets a -2 to the roll in 4.0, and a -1 to the roll in 4.4.

Note that statistically speaking, you should never assist: it is pretty much always better to use a skill of your own.

In 4.0, there is no penalty for failing (DMG p75, "Group Skill Challenges"), only a +2 for each ally rolling 10 or higher (max +8 total). However, the rules also do not allow for aiding another player except in specially designated "Group Skill Challenges". That may have changed in the 4.1 errata, as it was pretty silly and ill-defined.

[Unseenmal]

First, thanks for the replies.

This is a group skill challenge and the DM has allowed us to assist to complete them. We generally roll most of them ourselves but sometimes, when the roll is critical or hard, we thought it would benefit to have an assist. But just by the rule that you can have more than 1 assister to give a +2 (max +8), the assister should not affect the outcome of the challenge.

I always thought they gave a +2 if they rolled a 10+ and nothing if they rolled under 10. But no other penalty is incurred on the challenge. I want to change their minds on this since the DM loves to use skill challenges. The DM told me that if I can find the rules on this, he would change how he handles them. We are all fairly new to 4e so some rules and DM rulings are still a bit hazy.

Oh and we are playing under 4.4 rules if that changes things. I don't have access to either DMG or DMG 2 so I can't find the rules myself. I am waiting for the essentials books, along with the DMG's, I ordered to arrive . So any help you fine folks provide in the meantime is greatly appreciated.

[Akodo Makama]

Rules Compendium p162 contains optional rules for "Stages of failure" for skill challenges, containing ways to help skill challenges "remain lively" by giving penalties for failures. This section appears to be under the heading of consequences for the challenge as a whole, but is actually focused on consequences for individual checks. However, the compendium rules for challenges don't include any provision for aiding each other, just the group check method.