How many different kinds of Shaman?

[Clistenes]

I've trying to find all the different kinds of Shaman (3.0, 3.5 and 3.75) have been published to find the one most suitable for my purposes. To date I've found:

Shaman from Oriental Adventures.
Spirit Shaman from Complete Divine.
Shaman from the Kalamar Setting (basically a flavor of druid).
Shaman from Green Ronin Publishing's Shaman's Handbook
Shaman from Mongoose Publishing's Encyclopaedia Divine
Shaman from Adamant Entertaiment's Tome of Secrets.
Ancestral Speaker from Dragon Magazine 311 p49.

Not divine casters:

The Anagakok from Dragon 344, pag 104, a sort of wizard-shaman.
The Witch from the DMG pag 175, which has a very shaman-like spell list.

Not casters:

Dragon Shaman from the Player's Handbook II (not really a shaman like the others).

Do you know of any more published versions of the class?

EDITED: Added the Ancestral Speaker.

[nedz]

You can fluff any divine casting class as a Shaman.
Cleric, Druid, ...

[Clistenes]

You can fluff any divine casting class as a Shaman.
Cleric, Druid, ...

Do you know any variant of Cleric that is fluffed as Shaman? (right now I can remember the Ancestral Speaker).

[nedz]

Any.

You create a Cleric and fill the role of a Shaman.

[Clistenes]

If I were to take the Oriental Adventures Shaman and give it the Cleric spell-list, and the Urban Companion, do you think it would be overpowered when compared with a Cleric?

Or, to make it a bit different (more witch doctor-like), maybe I should combine the Oriental Shaman spell-list with some spells from the Green Ronin Shaman, the Angokok and the Witch?

[eggs]

Is the Ancestral Speaker the "Shaman" Cleric variant from Dragon that comes with the Ranger animal companion instead of turning? If not, one of the Dragon mags has that.

EDIT:

If I were to take the Oriental Adventures Shaman and give it the Cleric spell-list, and the Urban Companion, do you think it would be overpowered when compared with a Cleric?
So a cleric, plus divine grace, bonus feats, extra domain, familiar and spirit sight? Yeah, that'd be more powerful than just a cleric.

Armor proficiencies aren't worth much.

[Clistenes]

Is the Ancestral Speaker the "Shaman" Cleric variant from Dragon that comes with the Ranger animal companion instead of turning? If not, one of the Dragon mags has that.

EDIT:

So a cleric, plus divine grace, bonus feats, extra domain, familiar and spirit sight? Yeah, that'd be more powerful than just a cleric.

Armor proficiencies aren't worth much.

And a cleric with just the shaman's weapon and armor proficiencies and an urban companion?

[nedz]

It depends upon the options available for the companion, but everything else is fairly minor.

[Clistenes]

It depends upon the options available for the companion, but everything else is fairly minor.

The Urban Companion is basically a familiar (an owl, raven, cat, rat, dog...etc.) with minor differences.

I'm thinking on how to change the spell-list to make it less clerical and more shamanistic. Druid spells related to animals and plants would work, and anything that looks like a curse or provokes madness or fear (for the spirits of the dead)...the problem is, what to remove in exchange?

[docnessuno]

Shaman, a prestige class of the Warcraft RPG.
Shaman, a variant of the healer class in the World of Warcraft RPG.

[Clistenes]

Shaman, a prestige class of the Warcraft RPG.
Shaman, a variant of the healer class in the World of Warcraft RPG.

I don't have the Wrarcraft RPG. How are those classes?

[LeshLush]

And a cleric with just the shaman's weapon and armor proficiencies and an urban companion?
In 3.0, a cleric with the animal domain could have an animal companion as a druid, because animal companions came from the animal friendship spell. The nerf during the 3.5 transition broke my heart so bad.

[Spuddles]

Is the druid not shaman-y enough?

[Clistenes]

Is the druid not shaman-y enough?

Not really. Druids are like modern day ecologists given magic and sent to a medieval/ancient/iron age world. Real world Shamans didn't really care about animals, plants, the enviroment or nature (mostly because they would have viewed the idea of nature being threatened by humans as absurd), they only cared about the supernatural spirits (be those spirits of the dead or other kind) they had to appease.

They were mediators between the Supernatural World and Humanity, not protectors of Nature.

[hiryuu]

You can fluff a sorcerer this way, too. He's a Charisma caster, even. Bard is even easier.

[Clistenes]

You can fluff a sorcerer this way, too. He's a Charisma caster, even. Bard is even easier.

Those are essentially the Witch and the Divine Bard.

[Prime32]

I'm thinking on how to change the spell-list to make it less clerical and more shamanistic. Druid spells related to animals and plants would work
Real world Shamans didn't really care about animals, plants, the enviroment or natureUmm... :smallconfused:


they only cared about the supernatural spirits (be those spirits of the dead or other kind) they had to appease.Gods = supernatural spirits.


Seriously, you can fluff just about anything in this direction. Binder, warlock, totemist, wild soul...

[Clistenes]

Umm... :smallconfused:

The powers of the mythical shamans of our world were often animal or plant-related: The controlled the animals, turned into animals, blessed or cursed cattle and crops,..etc. They also often got their powers from animal spirits (for example, there was a native american tribe whose name I can't remember whose shamans claimed that they gained the power to cast different curses depending on species of their spirit ally). They lived surronded by nature, after all, so they took inspiration from there.

That doesn't mean they cared about real animals, or were even aware that humans could drive animals to extinction or ruin the enviroment. If the hunters of the tribe caught a lot of deer, they didn't get worried about the risk of extinction, they thought the master of the wood had sent them a lot of animals from his divine barn; when the deers got extinct, they thought that the master of the wood was angry at them and wouldn't send more animals.

[hiryuu]

Those are essentially the Witch and the Divine Bard.

You don't even need a new spell list, really. "Shaman" flavor is all about convincing spirits to do stuff for you. Saying your sorcerer literally sweet talks magic into doing things for him or her is all you need to do. In the worldviews that spawned what are typically called "shamans," everything was not only personified, but also sentient and capable of being bribed, cajoled, or even punched until it spat out delicious power (that last one was sometimes frowned upon, though sometimes it's the only way to get something to do what you want; depends on the belief system). Healing magic is usually seen in most belief systems as the most powerful form of magic (something D&D doesn't do well), and curses were often a thing you could potentially outrun, since they literally had to chase you down.

As an interesting side note, it should be indicated that all pursuits of magic would be historically considered "divine magic" from D&D's perspective. Even what we'd recognize as "wizards" (which, D&D's wizard most closely resembles Middle-eastern alchemists crossed with European cunning men) were trying to divine the methods by which god created the world.

I wonder how long I can get away with my bard's spirit guide being Earth, Wind, and Fire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jLGa4X5H2c) before I get things thrown at me?

[Spuddles]

The powers of the mythical shamans of our world were often animal or plant-related: The controlled the animals, turned into animals, blessed or cursed cattle and crops,..etc. They also often got their powers from animal spirits (for example, there was a native american tribe whose name I can't remember whose shamans claimed that they gained the power to cast different curses depending on species of their spirit ally). They lived surronded by nature, after all, so they took inspiration from there.

That doesn't mean they cared about real animals, or were even aware that humans could drive animals to extinction or ruin the enviroment. If the hunters of the tribe caught a lot of deer, they didn't get worried about the risk of extinction, they thought the master of the wood had sent them a lot of animals from his divine barn; when the deers got extinct, they thought that the master of the wood was angry at them and wouldn't send more animals.

What about every part of the buffalo? I mean as long as we're quoting stereotypes.

The druid is a european thing, and the civilization/wilderness dichotomy began to appear in northern europe during the iron age as christianity and forest clearing crept northward.

Anyway, there's nothing saying you can't kill animals or destroy tress or whatever in the druid description, merely that you respect nature. So you respect nature for the spirit aspect.

Druid is actually best thing to a shaman, you just need to not play the fluff straight out of the PHB and come up with a little of your own.

[Clistenes]

What about every part of the buffalo? I mean as long as we're quoting stereotypes.

The druid is a european thing, and the civilization/wilderness dichotomy began to appear in northern europe during the iron age as christianity and forest clearing crept northward.

Anyway, there's nothing saying you can't kill animals or destroy tress or whatever in the druid description, merely that you respect nature. So you respect nature for the spirit aspect.

Druid is actually best thing to a shaman, you just need to not play the fluff straight out of the PHB and come up with a little of your own.

The real druids were priests of the Celtic gods. They were completely different from D&D druids. Yes, the regarded some oaks as holy, but that doesn't mean they were ecologists.

The thing is, if I play a Shaman in a D&D world were there are already Druids, they are going to be different (spirit worshipper vs super-powered ecologist), so I want to use a different class.

[hiryuu]

The powers of the mythical shamans of our world were often animal or plant-related: The controlled the animals, turned into animals, blessed or cursed cattle and crops,..etc. They also often got their powers from animal spirits (for example, there was a native american tribe whose name I can't remember whose shamans claimed that they gained the power to cast different curses depending on species of their spirit ally). They lived surronded by nature, after all, so they took inspiration from there.

That doesn't mean they cared about real animals, or were even aware that humans could drive animals to extinction or ruin the enviroment. If the hunters of the tribe caught a lot of deer, they didn't get worried about the risk of extinction, they thought the master of the wood had sent them a lot of animals from his divine barn; when the deers got extinct, they thought that the master of the wood was angry at them and wouldn't send more animals.

Further side note.

Real world tribal cultures were and are absolutely aware of how much their hunters can impact the local ecology. If you chase down too many deer there won't be any for anyone else. If you pull in too many fish they won't be there next year. That's why they so often heaped rules and responsibilities onto hunters and put regulations on what can be hunted and when.

[nedz]

There's also the Adept

[Spuddles]

Further side note.

Real world tribal cultures were and are absolutely aware of how much their hunters can impact the local ecology. If you chase down too many deer there won't be any for anyone else. If you pull in too many fish they won't be there next year. That's why they so often heaped rules and responsibilities onto hunters and put regulations on what can be hunted and when.

A modern version of the noble savage myth, but still a myth.

[hiryuu]

A modern version of the noble savage myth, but still a myth.

Um. No.

I'm aware that many cultures still overhunted (especially nomadic cultures. Especially (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_jump).). Like crazy. But neither are they as dumb as is being suggested. It's remarkably simple logic to denote that some of your stocks are not just going to come back next year, especially if you've just started to develop agriculture, and this is the reason for many hunting taboos, especially if territory was small.

[docnessuno]

I don't have the Wrarcraft RPG. How are those classes?

Warcraft RPG and World of warcraft RPG are two different editions (i think the first is a 3.0 product while the seond id 3.5), where divine casters are replaced by the "healer" class (as cleric minus turn undead and medium/heavy armor, but gains bonus feats as wizard)

In Warcraft RPG the Shaman is a 10/10 casting PRC that adds a good bumch of elemental-themed spells to the class list, gains an elemental companion, can forecast weather and, as a capstone, can rebuke/command elementals.

In World of warcraft RPG The healer class has three different "paths" (priest, druid and shaman) that slightly alter the base class and dictates your domains. The shaman adds some skills to the class list, allowes you to turn/rebuke elementals, gives the elements and spirits domain, and a bunch of SU or spell-likes ability (capstone being a limited resurrection at level 16).

[Clistenes]

Warcraft RPG and World of warcraft RPG are two different editions (i think the first is a 3.0 product while the seond id 3.5), where divine casters are replaced by the "healer" class (as cleric minus turn undead and medium/heavy armor, but gains bonus feats as wizard)

In Warcraft RPG the Shaman is a 10/10 casting PRC that adds a good bumch of elemental-themed spells to the class list, gains an elemental companion, can forecast weather and, as a capstone, can rebuke/command elementals.

In World of warcraft RPG The healer class has three different "paths" (priest, druid and shaman) that slightly alter the base class and dictates your domains. The shaman adds some skills to the class list, allowes you to turn/rebuke elementals, gives the elements and spirits domain, and a bunch of SU or spell-likes ability (capstone being a limited resurrection at level 16).

I have managed to get a peek at the books now. Those "prestige classes" (Wild Druid, Shaman and Priest) seem like they would be deliciously broken when combined with other non-warcraft divine classes; so much, in fact, that very few DM would allow them...

By the way, I find strange that the handbook doesn't tell you that you can't take levels in two or three different prestige classes...such rule must be somewhere, or otherwise everybody would take a dip in each of them and thake all the spells...