XCOM II: Terror From the DLC

[RagingKrikkit]

Welcome back to the XCOM: Enemy Unknown thread! First off; the title. I liked several other suggestions, but this one tied with a few others for two votes, and was the only one where the joke was thread number-sensitive, so I went with it. The others that I considered for the title (and are still legitimate suggestions for later threads) are:


Press Y to Overwatch (king.com)

Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy Graduate Association (ShneekeyTheLost)

That wall won't save you. (Eurus)

Put on the red shirt already! (Kudaku)

Get to da Skyranger! (Thanatos 51-50)

Shooting through solid walls was never so much fun. (Anarion)

When in doubt, use high explosives. (Krade)

Mutons got the first one. (Cheesegear)

A Rookie walks into a bar... (Cheesegear)

Disposable rookies: is there any problem they won't solve? (ShneekeyTheLost)

To each and every alien, there is an equal and opposite explosion (ShneekeyTheLost)

Moving on to adding new content, I am interested in putting up a multiplayer database so we can blow each other up with plasma snipers and blaster bombs. If you play XCOM online, and would like to play against some other GITPers, please post the filled-out form of this template and post it, and I will add it below.


Platform:
GITP Name:
Username:
Time Available (Including time zone):

PC
No players stationed on PC!

Xbox 360
No players stationed on Xbox 360!

Playstation 3
No players stationed on Playstation 3!

That said, I believe we were discussing how to not die on Impossible Ironman.

[Thanatos 51-50]

(PC Player: STEAM handle: thanatos5150) US Eastren Seaboard, no set time I'm available. If I'm active, Steam will say I'm online.)

So, I have recently discovered the True Glories of Squadsight.

AFTER ACTION REPORT - Operation blighted Hammer
An alien craft landed in the United States. The US, being the only North American Country NOT withdrawn from the XCOM project, requested help. Since the project was low on Alloy and Elerium, it was happy to dispatch Alpha Team, with a hapless Rook packing an Arc-thrower, and filled with dreams of capturing a Muton aive.

An assault trooper and a sniper with fresh new Corporal bars sighted and moved to engage a small pack of thin men while the main force (A Support, a recently-transferred Sargent-ranked Heavy, and the Rook) went to investigate other parts of the UFO.
Almost immediately, Team Thin Men picked off two of the xenos, with the third retreating. They moved to catch up to him, and blow his guts all over the forest floor.

Soon after they were committed on the other side of the AO, two separate packs of Mutons appeared from out of the woodwork. Team Muton was in a bad position, but they defend themselves valiantly.
The Rook was the first to die. Having heavily wounded all of the Mutons, present, he began closing in on the pack, with the hopes that he could stun one as the rest of Team Muton finished off the pack. Due to some oversight from command, he was well within the blast radius of an Alien grenade.
Team Thin Men was re-assigned to provide covering fire. The Assault was to flank around, inside the UFO and eliminate the Mutons, while the Sniper was to sit pretty on her perch and fire photons into the alien menace.
The support died next, having poked his head around a log he was using as cover to spot for the sniper.
The Heavy - one "Mama Bear" - Laid down a hail of suppressive fire, and the Assault trooper completed his flanking maneuver, blowing away a Muton.
Then Mama Bear took a mortal plasma wound. My flanking trooper ran face-to-face into a third pack of roaming Mutons.

The remainder of the squad now in retreat, the assault trooper spotted Mutons and drew them into bottlenecks where the Sniper could finish them off.
The six Mutons down from all three packs, the enemy squads were scattered and in disarry.
The assault trooper proceeded to dash around the AO, making cover behind trees and calling out shots for the Sniper to take. She had to reload twice. Eventually, Mutons cleared out, the shotgun troop began cautiously entering the xenos craft. One up close and personal encounter with an Outsider later, Team Thin Men was heavily wounded - the assault troop holding on to life with little bit determination and a nano-fiber vest - resumed the original objective and hunted down the sole surviving alien on the map - the Thin Man had jumped to the top of the UFO.
The assault trooper received the nickname "Wolverine". The Sniper - "Demon".

[psilontech]

I finally got around to playing X-COM: EU. I loved UFO Defense so I was excited when this finally ended up in my game library.

Thus far I am... disappointed. While I can look past some of the annoying additions (Randomly going into over the shoulder shake-cam while someone moves and the like) or some of the bugs I assume will be fixed (Aliens spawning into the middle of my formation (Not the floater jetpack thing) and the camera freaking the hell out while inside the ship), the core gameplay... I'm having issues looking past.

Aliens have set spawn-points at random locations. This is my primary issue. They don't seem to exist until one of your troopers triggers them to spawn. Then there's the 'herp derp, look at me!' little cinematic EVERY time, and then they get to rush around and do whatever the hell they like on your turn.

In the same vein as the alien spawn, every skyranger dropoff is 100% successful. No need to worry about being ambushed while you're unloading your troops. You're going to run across the xeno scum who are COMPLETELY SURPRISED that humans have come to finish them off shortly after their ship was shot down. While excusable for the first few missions, I can imagine some level of alien arrogance, not so later on.

It's difficult and time consuming to find the trooper that had that armor or weapon you don' have many of that you need to throw onto a different peon. If you had Redshirt X wander into Psi Training with a Heavy Plasma, you're not going to see that heavy plasma again for some time.


I've just started playing, mind you. There's still a chance something will pop up to make me fall in love with the game. There's an equal or more likely chance I'll keep finding things wrong with it.
:smallfrown: I wanted to like this game so much.

[Badgerish]

Just IMHO:
I like the game and think it's a good game. I bought it at about £20 and I certainly feel I have got my money's worth (and there are new games to play and mods to consider).

However... I don't think it's as good as the original and no where near as good as it could have been. I am looking forward to seeing what happens with the mod scene and DLC, as there is potential for evolution in the game.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I want to see a mod/DLC wherein it's possible for XCOM to go Rogue and continue operating without the Council's backing, without making the Doom Track irrelevant.
Maybe boost base maintenance costs? Make it exponentially more expensive or impossible to hire new soldiers?

Just thinking out loud, since my Doom Track on my first game is two countries from full.

[Blackdrop]

In the same vein as the alien spawn, every skyranger dropoff is 100% successful. No need to worry about being ambushed while you're unloading your troops. You're going to run across the xeno scum who are COMPLETELY SURPRISED that humans have come to finish them off shortly after their ship was shot down. While excusable for the first few missions, I can imagine some level of alien arrogance, not so later on.


To address your first point about getting ambushed getting off the skyranger; in real life, generally, you aren't going to get ambushed dismounting from a helicopter (closest comparison) either. Armed forces the world over tend to have enough of their act together to know where the safest insertion point into the operational area is. And I don't enough to know how it happens, but the if media cliche of-

Pilot: The LZ is too hot, sir!
Colonel Bob: I don't care! Darn it all man, don't you know people are dying! Put us down anyway!

-does actually happen, I'd hazard a guess that they'd still put you down in the safest possible spot.

And as to your second point about the aliens not having their acts together after a shootdown, I ask you this: Have you ever been in an airplane (again, closest comparison) crash? It tends to be a wee bit disorientating.

Edit: And in the interest of fairness, I do agree about the "HERE WE ARE!" cut-scenes, they are very weird and slightly out of place.

[Tengu_temp]

There is one big thing where this game could use improvement for me: more new stuff. Most equipment and aliens are just remakes of stuff from the original game. You get a lot of new armor types - which is awesome - but other than getting sniper rifles and shotguns, weapons still follow the old conventional guns -> laser -> plasma formula. As for aliens, if you count the Thin Men as Snakeman equivalents, then the only new ones are Probes, Outsiders and elite versions of already existing races - nothing significant.

I'd love to see a DLC that introduces several new types of aliens and weapons. Something that brings their variety up to what this game did with armor.

[psilontech]

To address your first point about getting ambushed getting off the skyranger; in real life, generally, you aren't going to get ambushed dismounting from a helicopter (closest comparison) either. Armed forces the world over tend to have enough of their act together to know where the safest insertion point into the operational area is. And I don't enough to know how it happens, but the if media cliche of-


Point well made.



And as to your second point about the aliens not having their acts together after a shootdown, I ask you this: Have you ever been in an airplane (again, closest comparison) crash? It tends to be a wee bit disorientating.


Given how few aliens die and the general lack of utter destruction around the crash site, I would say that most of these craft have fairly soft landings, even with 1/3 of the ship gone. Given psionics exist, why not intertial dampeners? In addition, the creatures are neither civilians nor human. Sure, some of them aren't the most resilient of things (Slender Men), but they're still straight up more physically endurant that the average (steroid-pumped, hardcore special ops) human.

Also, they usually have a few hours to get their act together before the ranger gets there.

[SKarious]

Shaky-cam: I think it's called "Action-cam" and can be turned off from the options menu.

Yes, squadsight is pretty boss. I have a hard time figuring any uses for the other ability (snap-shot). If I'm limited to visual range anyway, isn't it better to use a pistol and not suffer the -20% to hit? Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
My snap-shot sniper got the nickname "Garrote". I think that's because he's killed more enemies at melee range than with his rifle. :smallfrown:

[Kalmarvho]

Yes, squadsight is pretty boss. I have a hard time figuring any uses for the other ability (snap-shot). If I'm limited to visual range anyway, isn't it better to use a pistol and not suffer the -20% to hit? Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Snap-shot allows you to throw a hell of a lot more damage on in greater range than the pistol, so it's kind of worth it. Squadsight is better, but don't underestimate snap-shot's power, especially against enemies out in the open.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Snap-shot allows you to throw a hell of a lot more damage on in greater range than the pistol, so it's kind of worth it. Squadsight is better, but don't underestimate snap-shot's power, especially against enemies out in the open.

Uh... I don't think the pistol's range is too short to make a big difference when you get to the point where the Sniper can see the enemy himself. If it didn't have the massive aim penalty, it might be worth it, but as it is, the pistol's more accurate because it doesn't take the -20% to Aim.

And don't bother bringing up damage. Your Sniper can get by until he gets promoted to Sergeant, at which point you get either a pistol damage boost, or a really situational bonus that isn't at all worth it until you get Archangel Armor (and then, Archangel Armor + Squadsight is wayyy better than Archangel Armor + Snap Shot, so you should still get Squadsight). Later, you get The Foundry, which has three possible pistol projects, which don't have to be taken in order. You've got Improved Pistol I, which gives a crit boost, II, which gives an aim boost, and III, which gives a damage boost.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I have a friend who played Normal difficulty and found that he prefers Heavies with less boom and more utility... going with Holo-Targeting, Suppression, and Havoc. Basically replacing Supports, he said. For blowing out cover, there's laser/plasma rifles.

While probably not effective on Classic or Impossible difficulty (having seen Iskandar's Classic LP and seeing how useful the occasional shredder rocket was at weakening a whole group of opponents plus blowing out their cover), he said it was quite effective on the difficulty he plays at.

[Kalmarvho]

Uh... I don't think the pistol's range is too short to make a big difference when you get to the point where the Sniper can see the enemy himself. If it didn't have the massive aim penalty, it might be worth it, but as it is, the pistol's more accurate because it doesn't take the -20% to Aim.

And don't bother bringing up damage. Your Sniper can get by until he gets promoted to Sergeant, at which point you get either a pistol damage boost, or a really situational bonus that isn't at all worth it until you get Archangel Armor (and then, Archangel Armor + Squadsight is wayyy better than Archangel Armor + Snap Shot, so you should still get Squadsight). Later, you get The Foundry, which has three possible pistol projects, which don't have to be taken in order. You've got Improved Pistol I, which gives a crit boost, II, which gives an aim boost, and III, which gives a damage boost.

I dunno, I've come across situations where an enemy is out of pistol range but not rifle range. Typically heavy floaters though, which throws on an additional miss chance due to the whole flying thing.

[Thanatos 51-50]

So, my Doom Track is at 6/8, and I have yet to assault the Alien Base.

Methinks I'm going to lose.
Taking sign-ups now if anybody wants a name on Team Second Chances.

Also: Probably going to LP it. Because Fun.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Taking sign-ups now if anybody wants a name on Team Second Chances.

Also: Probably going to LP it. Because Fun.

I'll join.

Jason/Jessica Chase
White (not pale). For hair/helmet, I like 4 for men, 2-5 for women. Head 1 or 4 for male, 4 for female. No facial hair. Hair color blonde, but not yellow.

And if you're not on Normal already, you should probably switch to it. Only advice I'm going to give you is: shoot for Carapace Armor immediately.

[t209]

Here's an alternate history scenario:
What would have happened to X-Com Franchise if Hasbro managed to hold it long enough to produce a Michael Bay film and Saturday Morning Cartoon? BTW, who should produce X-Com movie? How about Cartoon (Either darker Kid cartoon or something)?

[ThePhantom]

Sorry if this question has been asked before: If you chose to use a hero "cheat unit", is there anyway to turn achievements back on?

[Anarion]

I finally got around to playing X-COM: EU. I loved UFO Defense so I was excited when this finally ended up in my game library.

Thus far I am... disappointed. While I can look past some of the annoying additions (Randomly going into over the shoulder shake-cam while someone moves and the like) or some of the bugs I assume will be fixed (Aliens spawning into the middle of my formation (Not the floater jetpack thing) and the camera freaking the hell out while inside the ship), the core gameplay... I'm having issues looking past.

Aliens have set spawn-points at random locations. This is my primary issue. They don't seem to exist until one of your troopers triggers them to spawn. Then there's the 'herp derp, look at me!' little cinematic EVERY time, and then they get to rush around and do whatever the hell they like on your turn.

In the same vein as the alien spawn, every skyranger dropoff is 100% successful. No need to worry about being ambushed while you're unloading your troops. You're going to run across the xeno scum who are COMPLETELY SURPRISED that humans have come to finish them off shortly after their ship was shot down. While excusable for the first few missions, I can imagine some level of alien arrogance, not so later on.

It's difficult and time consuming to find the trooper that had that armor or weapon you don' have many of that you need to throw onto a different peon. If you had Redshirt X wander into Psi Training with a Heavy Plasma, you're not going to see that heavy plasma again for some time.


I've just started playing, mind you. There's still a chance something will pop up to make me fall in love with the game. There's an equal or more likely chance I'll keep finding things wrong with it.
:smallfrown: I wanted to like this game so much.

Some thoughts.

You can turn the annoying camera off by deselecting action cam in the options.

What difficulty are you playing on? Enemy AI is leashed in normal and below and they are more fixed and more stupid. At higher difficulties there are wandering packs of enemies that will stumble into you during their turn. They still won't fire immediately. This is a concession where the game gives up realism for good gameplay. By limiting active aliens and allowing them to take cover but not fire the first time they're scene, the game avoids unfair instakill scenarios and allows for better tactical gameplay. Given the number of aliens that can spawn on classic and especially on impossible, the alternative would be to simply crush you repeatedly, or to require nerfs to most of the aliens.

What this version of XCOM did was to make every single alien and every single soldier matter, unlike the original game. Again, especially on impossible, messing up and failing to get 1-2 aliens can easily lead to an entire squad wipe if you get some bad dice rolls (e.g. multiple panics).

As for psi training, first off you can always remove the trooper from training, take the equipment off and put them back in. Iirc it doesn't even reset the timer, though I could be wrong on that. Second, psi training's tension is around giving up your better troops for a while, it's the one place in the game that's asking you to pay attention, and I don't blame them for having a mechanism that punishes the short-sighted there. Games aren't required to make sure that everything automatically optimizes itself for the player.


Sorry if this question has been asked before: If you chose to use a hero "cheat unit", is there anyway to turn achievements back on?

No idea. Have you tried dismissing the hero unit?

[ShadowFighter15]

If you had Redshirt X wander into Psi Training with a Heavy Plasma, you're not going to see that heavy plasma again for some time.

This one was a pain until I found two things - firstly, you can back out to the base view to sort things out and not lose the mission (as long as you don't advance time by scanning or taking too long in the base - don't know if time advances on the normal base view, but better safe than sorry) and secondly; you can use the Barracks --> View Soldiers option to access the loadouts of troops in Psi Training.

So if you've got a Heavy Plasma on a guy who's in Psi Training and forgot to take it off them when a new mission rolls around (even a terror mission), you just back out to base view, go to the barracks, select the soldier with the Heavy Plasma (psi-trainees and injured are typically at the bottom of the list), nick all of their gear and give it to one of the poor bastards brave soldiers you're sending out into the field. Just head back to mission control and the mission should have its own button up with the Scan for Activity button.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

As for psi training, first off you can always remove the trooper from training, take the equipment off and put them back in. Iirc it doesn't even reset the timer, though I could be wrong on that. Second, psi training's tension is around giving up your better troops for a while, it's the one place in the game that's asking you to pay attention, and I don't blame them for having a mechanism that punishes the short-sighted there. Games aren't required to make sure that everything automatically optimizes itself for the player.

You can select and strip gear from soldiers in psi training from the Barracks window. They'll be greyed out, but you can click on them just fine. It's only Squad Select that doesn't let us tell Col. Tunguska that no, she isn't going to need her Heavy Plasma and Ghost Armour for a few days and if she would just hand them to Rookie 37 so that we can go rescue Sydney already that would be ace. Why soldiers in psi-training aren't auto-unequipped like wounded ones is beyond me.

Oh, and taking someone out of Psi-training means starting over. In one game I had to remove a vet three times from training because all my other vets kept getting wounded and I needed someone competent to lead the rookies. Annoying.


Aaaand ninjas.

[Murska]

the game avoids unfair instakill scenarios

This is the worst part of the new X-Com. :smallfrown:

[RagingKrikkit]

Then you miss the point of the motto of this game "Harsh but fair". They built it so that instead of just having a "bullcrap" moment when your facorite trooper dies, you know that he died because you screwed up. And that changes the tone of every death dramatically.

[Murska]

I'm not missing the point, I just think it's a very poor design decision that makes the game far less fun.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm not missing the point, I just think it's a very poor design decision that makes the game far less fun.

So, wait, you're saying that "unfair instakill scenarios" would make the game MORE fun? I don't know what planet you're from, but I'm pretty sure the majority of human beings would disagree with that.

Oh, I get it. The aliens have already gotten to you. Everybody spread out and find the guy mind controlling him!

[Anarion]

I'm not missing the point, I just think it's a very poor design decision that makes the game far less fun.

Go play an ironman impossible run. The aliens will be happy to shoot you dead through high cover. The game can and will destroy your guys in the higher difficulties. What they took out was the feeling of frustration where you have no control over the game and never could.

[Kalmarvho]

To be fair, those 'unfair instakill scenarios' were what made the older games memorable. People tend to forget the frustration of having been normandy ramped by a bunch of sectoids out of visual range when they're looking back on the game years after the fact.

'Memorable', basically, doesn't always equal good memories.

[Razgriez]

I do have to agree somewhat with some of Thanatos' questions about the realism. I enjoy the game, but seriously, what is up with some of the council's messed up funding and orders?

Let's talk about the XCOM project in general. In particular, let's first point towards one of the most hated favorite missions of everyone's first time playing: The "Tutorial" mission. Yes, *that* one.

So everything starts out ok, our fancy VTOL aircraft does what is clearly a Night Vision/Thermal Camera scan of the area, see's that it's safe enough to land, at which point, 4 of our "Best men" and woman, do the right stuff so far. They secure the LZ, they move from cover to cover. They investigate EVERYTHING. Everything goes well, until Squad member #3, reaches the Alien pod. At which point, the Idiot Ball is grabbed by everyone at XCOM. It has been mere hours since the initial attack in Germany, your squad is about to prove why this contingency plan was made in the first place, to fight off a potential Alien invasion, and what's the first thing your group of Elite Alien hunters can say about first contact with an Alien object?

"I don't know what it is, but it certainly isn't something from Earth".

Really? I'm pretty sure that's why you were sent in the first place. As a matter of fact, I think mister "hide my face in the shadows" Council member guy told me this was why the XCOM Project was being green lit for this mission.

And from there, everyone's "favorite" desktop commander at Mission Control, takes over. Switching from "Nice and careful" to something that seems to have be thought of on the spot after one too many beers of "I saw this on the Internet/in a Movie once, it's cool". And then the mission just goes bad, when he chooses to ignore Standard Operating Procedure which I think states "If the guy you aren't sure about is holding live explosives in their hand: DO NOT APPROACH"

And in the end, does our own moron Mission control Commander actually take any of the blame for his rather stupid orders to the team? Nope! Instead, it's just passed off as: "Well, they were clearly just better prepared they we are. Oh that last survivor might be suffering grief and PTSD at seeing his squad mates faces melted off by some plasma shots? Eh, we'll give him some ice cream a promotion, which is certainly not at all a blatant attempt to distract him long enough to make him forget to add into his Debriefing report that I am an incompetent Mission Control commander.

But then what makes the issue worse, is that that last part, could've all been avoided, if the Council, splurged for either some Tactical lights, or some NVGs.

And speaking of splurging, I just love, (and where it's very easy to cause panic to rise quickly), how at the very beginning, all the council nations just seem to not care about funding you sufficiently, yet expect you to answer every single one of their demands. "Oh hey, we were only willing to buy and build enough materials for 1 single, rapid reaction VTOL aircraft... Now please handle 3 Abduction defense request!" This soon leads to "Hey, we're in a real panic here, it would be great if you guys got a Satellite into stationary orbit above our country to make us feel safer and know you guys can then send one of those advanced fighter jets to protect us from UFOs, and prevent them from launching further Abductions"

I think everyone here who has played this game can attest to what their next thought was at least once. "err, sure, except I'm not being given enough money for another Satellite / Uplink here."

It's like the game silently taunts us, and you can hear the panicked nation in question smugly reply in your head: "Well, if you had an expensive spy satellite network in place, we'd actually be willing to give you the money you need in the first place to build it." :smallannoyed:

Why Council of Nations... why do you make my life at trying to save all your lives so miserable and frustrating sometimes?

[Hiro Protagonest]

My theory is that all the world leaders were mind-controlled all along. You know that pink-purple spot on the screen whenever Council Guy comes online? Yeah, I don't think that's because of a poor quality video. I got the idea when I saw the Game Over cutscene on Beaglerush's I/I playthrough.

[Murska]

I've played Impossible Ironman and finished the game. I've also played the original on Superhuman Ironman Hawaii One-Base challenge mode and won, as well as two games of first normal and then Superhuman only buy weapons challenge.

I'm not saying the new one can't be difficult. Running out of money and having nations panic and so on. But it doesn't have the feel of you being inferior to the aliens, it doesn't make me afraid and it feels more limited. A good game, sure, but the original is a more fun game to play.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/X-Com/UFODefense2009-08-1204-57-20-96.jpg

When this happens, I get interested in a game, not frustrated with it. It's sad that most modern games are not 'unfair' It's not supposed to feel balanced, it's supposed to feel like an utterly superior alien species is toying with you for unknown reasons.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I don't mind realism. I do mind The AI Is A Cheating Bastard, and it's just a cheap trick to make the game harder. I can live with it, but saying a game is superior because of it? Yeah, no.

---

Also, I got the original, but can't figure out how to install the Enemy Unknown Extended (http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Enemy_Unknown_Extended) mod collection, as I've never installed mods or patches before.

The most I've figured out is how to open the folder (steamapp>commons>Xcom UFO Defense>XCOM), and how to copy/paste it into there from the other folder. I followed the instructions to the best of my ability, but I'm doing something wrong.

Help please?

[Thanatos 51-50]

So, Team Second Chances is doing pretty well. I have just over a dozen "episodes" worth of screenshots. Problem is, I can't get photobucket's IMG tags to work properly.
So... yeah.

Still screenshotting and saving, though. Hopefully I'll find a way to make it work.

[Anarion]

When this happens, I get interested in a game, not frustrated with it. It's sad that most modern games are not 'unfair' It's not supposed to feel balanced, it's supposed to feel like an utterly superior alien species is toying with you for unknown reasons.

Based on this statement and your list of accolades, I think you just have to accept the fact that you're unusual and probably on the far end of the belle curve in terms of overall skill. Most people do not like the kind of game that you seem to want, and I would say the vast majority of people can't beat ironman impossible or any of the challenges you listed for the original X-Com. I'd bet that the vast majority of purchasers of the new game couldn't even beat the first mission of ironman impossible with double digit attempts.

If there is a game that meets the specifications you're looking for, it's likely to be a difficulty mod (already exists for XCOM if you want it) or a super-hardcore indie game.


So, Team Second Chances is doing pretty well. I have just over a dozen "episodes" worth of screenshots. Problem is, I can't get photobucket's IMG tags to work properly.
So... yeah.

Still screenshotting and saving, though. Hopefully I'll find a way to make it work.

Cool. Good luck and feel free to use my name. On an assault if possible, but I'll do anything.

[Murska]

I don't mind realism. I do mind The AI Is A Cheating Bastard, and it's just a cheap trick to make the game harder. I can live with it, but saying a game is superior because of it? Yeah, no.


Cheating AI is annoying, but there's a difference between an AI that has superior capabilities to you and an AI that cheats. If the AI has justifiably better units that move and see farther and have better guns, but you can attain those capabilities as well with research, it's good. If the AI knows things it shouldn't know or magically gets faster build times for no reason, that's not good.

It's not difficulty per se I'm after. The original X-Com is still fun in the end-game, when you get to avenge all the dead rookies and all the humiliating defeats in the early game by turning the alien weaponry on the invaders themselves. I just enjoy the feeling and atmosphere of genuinely being an ordinary guy, like in Operation Flashpoint campaigns, or the underdog, like in X-Com. It's fun to be weaker, it's enjoyable to feel like I could lose at any time if things were to go poorly.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm going to have to agree with Anarion. You're clearly not the target "average gamer" that Firaxis was aiming for when designing XCOM.

It can be a little sad, but as gaming has become more and more mainstream in the last decade or two, increasing levels of competition continue to force game companies to cater to the widest possible fanbase. It's essentially the same problem that Hollywood movie producers have been suffering for the longest time. You get the most profit by entertaining the most people, even if it means reducing the extreme elements that die-hard fans most enjoy.

That being said, they clearly did a pretty good job with the new XCOM. It's not perfect, and it certainly isn't the original X-Com (but they were never trying to exactly reproduce the original anyway).

[stabbybelkar]

Hey guys, do you know what time it is? That's right! It's the X-COM Trivia Game! The rules are simple: You post the name of one of your soldiers and everyone else has to guess what their name is a reference to! You don't necessarily have to post their nicknames if you think it will make things too obvious, but if you want to, that's your decision. I'll start:

Pip "Wild Goose" Bernadotte

Rip "Freischutz" Van Winkle

Rebecca Jordan (I'm not mentioning the Nickname because that would make it WAY too obvious, however, if anyone actually does mange to guess this one correctly I will be extremely impressed)

Vic "Blondie" Vega

Eddie "Nice Guy" Cabot

Mail "Matt" Jeevas

Roboute "Smurf" Guilliman

That's all that I have for now. It's now up to you guys to figure them out and add your own.

[Feriority]

Hey guys, do you know what time it is? That's right! It's the X-COM Trivia Game! The rules are simple: You post the name of one of your soldiers and everyone else has to guess what their name is a reference to! You don't necessarily have to post their nicknames if you think it will make things too obvious, but if you want to, that's your decision. I'll start:

Pip "Wild Goose" Bernadotte

Rip "Freischutz" Van Winkle

Rebecca Jordan (I'm not mentioning the Nickname because that would make it WAY too obvious, however, if anyone actually does mange to guess this one correctly I will be extremely impressed)

Vic "Blondie" Vega

Eddie "Nice Guy" Cabot

Mail "Matt" Jeevas

Roboute "Smurf" Guilliman

That's all that I have for now. It's now up to you guys to figure them out and add your own.

The first two are from Hellsing and the last one is the Ultrasmurfiest of Ultrasmurfs.

[Drascin]

I'm going to have to agree with Anarion. You're clearly not the target "average gamer" that Firaxis was aiming for when designing XCOM.

It can be a little sad, but as gaming has become more and more mainstream in the last decade or two, increasing levels of competition continue to force game companies to cater to the widest possible fanbase. It's essentially the same problem that Hollywood movie producers have been suffering for the longest time. You get the most profit by entertaining the most people, even if it means reducing the extreme elements that die-hard fans most enjoy.

It's not even because of the "evil mainstream". It's simple basic good design. Basically, here's a thing. You never want to give the player the feeling that it's useless to play or that it's a waste of his time - because then he, surprise, won't play! Most people are no longer willing to put up with games artificially lengthening their lifespan via cheap tricks like including near-unbeatable bits, and I say this as a person who loves the NES to bits.

Let's take the example of a couple well-designed difficult games.

Super Meat Boy takes the "no time wasted" approach. Yes, in Super Meat Boy you are going to die a lot. A lot. The game is way more legitimately difficult than old X-com. But all death does is make you restart the level, and levels are like thirty seconds. There is no "man, I just wasted the last two hours" feeling. So you keep playing, and playing.

On the other end of the spectrum is stuff like Monster Hunter or Dark Souls. Monster Hunter takes the same philosophy new XCOM tries to inject a bit of in his formula - fairness. Yes, can get pretty difficult in places, and yes, it can make you lose a bunch of time, unlike Super Meat Boy... but because it's fair, if you lose it's your fault and you know it. You can get better at the game and then you won't lose. There's no unfair "you die without being able to do anything" moments - at all points, the end result of the game is under your control, even if it's not going to pull punches. And this is what makes it okay for you to be able to be utterly stomped - you could have not been if you'd played better, and you know it.

By comparison, blaster bomb ramps in old X-com were a side-effect. Memorable, yes, but not all memories are good memories. Right now, people want to have some say in what happens in their game, especially if it's a game where the entire playthrough hangs on the balance at every moment (as an ironman X-com run is), and so XCOM was created with such design sensibilities. They still added some RNG screw you to keep some of the feeling of the original - they just also made it so careful, skilled play could offset it to give the player the feeling he's in control of his game.

[KillianHawkeye]

@Drascin: I totally agree with your analysis, but I also think that the requirement for games to be more fair and less arbitrary does stem in part from the fact that they are now being designed for such a large audience (coupled with the fact that audience members are now more connected than ever before thanks to the Internet).

Back in the old days of early video games, some unfairness was expected. Part of the reason that we expect better game design today is because we as gamers have more choices, and part of the reason that game companies have to provide it is because we are better able to screen out a bad game before we buy it.

[Tengu_temp]

That's not about being mainstream, though. Rather, today's audience simply knows better.

[Anarion]

That's not about being mainstream, though. Rather, today's audience simply knows better.

I agree with this. Murska demonstrates that there is an audience that, in effect, wants a game where it rolls 1d20 at the beginning of each mission and on a 1 you lose. But I believe that audience to be diminishingly small because it's terrible design except for people that enjoy having the game punish them.

[Murska]

I'm a bit resentful of the arguments that basically state the type of game design I enjoy is objectively wrong and horrible, as well as the notion that the fact that things aren't fair means the skill of the player does not matter. I do understand your point of view in that most people want to win, at least eventually, and wish to be able to fix whatever mistakes they made so that the game can't suddenly destroy them if they play in the optimal way. But that, while common, is not the only point of view nor in any way superior to people who wish for something else.

As an aside, a situation where you truly could do nothing and lost the entire playthrough because of it is exceedingly rare in X-Com, and most all other games I've ever played. I think I've had that sort of a situation once in the original - I happened to get hit by a Muton Battleship that attacked my only base during a time where several of my best troops were injured and I had a lack of weaponry as my purchase order was still arriving. Then the enemy dispositions happened to be quite painful in that they managed to spot and eliminate my heavy troopers almost immediately, leaving me with just a couple rookies with no weapons against a full-on Muton invasion. That lost me the game but it was still my own fault in that I hadn't designed my base to survive a proper invasion. Afterwards I did that, and never lost a game outright anymore.

If you lose a mission by getting your squad (mostly) annihilated by a blasterbomb ambush at the ramp, then what you do is cut your losses and retreat. It's not a big deal - the game mechanics expect you to lose missions now and then. And it doesn't make the game impossible to win, as you can just recruit more rookies, replace lost equipment and try again. But it keeps me on edge as there's always the feeling that I could be in trouble, it's possible for me to lose a mission. In the new X-Com, a situation where I lose a mission is going to be because I made a large mistake, and after a while of playing I tend to learn to avoid large mistakes, in which case the tension of potential loss and defeat is gone.

[stabbybelkar]

The first two are from Hellsing and the last one is the Ultrasmurfiest of Ultrasmurfs.

Correct. Now I'm wondering who will get the other four.

[Anarion]

I'm a bit resentful of the arguments that basically state the type of game design I enjoy is objectively wrong and horrible, as well as the notion that the fact that things aren't fair means the skill of the player does not matter.

I apologize that you feel resentful. However, I'm not willing to change my position. General principles of design are about making things that most people enjoy. There are always going to be exceptions, just as some people like purple polka-dot bow-ties and others like really weird-looking non-standard cars.

As has been elaborated in this discussion, game design for the overwhelming majority of people should be "fair" and it should not be so crushingly difficult as to chase most players away from the game. This rule of design is superior to the type of design that you like and if one were advising a new game designer, it is objectively correct to teach them this rule.

That doesn't mean nobody should ever make games that you like. People break rules of thumb all the time. But your viewpoint is the viewpoint of a very small, extremely hardcore minority. If you want a game that you enjoy, you're going to need to turn to sources dedicated to that niche such as modding communities that release mods that raise the challenge of existing games. It is not reasonable, in my opinion, for you to criticize the quality of a new game because it doesn't feel unfair enough for you.

[DaedalusMkV]

Correct. Now I'm wondering who will get the other four.

Mr. Blonde and the Nice Guy are from Reservoir Dogs, and maybe "Matt" Jeevas? It's been a while, and that movie wasn't terribly big on giving out the names of its characters. Rebecca Jordan... I swear I've heard that name before, but where... And why would giving out the nickname make it too obvious? Wait...

The little girl from Aliens insisted that nobody called her Rebecca, and Newt would have been way too obvious. Is that it? I haven't the slightest idea if her last name was Jordan, though, so I could easily be way off base on that one.

[Murska]

I apologize that you feel resentful. However, I'm not willing to change my position. General principles of design are about making things that most people enjoy. There are always going to be exceptions, just as some people like purple polka-dot bow-ties and others like really weird-looking non-standard cars.

As has been elaborated in this discussion, game design for the overwhelming majority of people should be "fair" and it should not be so crushingly difficult as to chase most players away from the game. This rule of design is superior to the type of design that you like and if one were advising a new game designer, it is objectively correct to teach them this rule.

That doesn't mean nobody should ever make games that you like. People break rules of thumb all the time. But your viewpoint is the viewpoint of a very small, extremely hardcore minority. If you want a game that you enjoy, you're going to need to turn to sources dedicated to that niche such as modding communities that release mods that raise the challenge of existing games. It is not reasonable, in my opinion, for you to criticize the quality of a new game because it doesn't feel unfair enough for you.

The fact that generally most people will most of the time be wanting to create games that many people will enjoy doesn't make design choices that cater to the majority of people objectively superior. If that were true, then there'd only be one type of game as there would be no point in creating a game that appeals only to 49% of the entire population of the Earth. Saying that creating an FPS is superior to creating a Grand Strategy title simply because more people play FPSs is ridiculous.

And I feel that it's completely reasonable for me to voice my opinion about a game, regardless of what other people may feel about it. If I don't like something, but the majority of other people like it, it's not my fault or something to be ashamed of, and of course vice versa. I don't expect my opinion to be taken as absolute truth, nor do I take anyone else's opinion as such either. But silencing any dissenting voices is bad for everyone, and results in a tyranny of the majority.

[chiasaur11]

See, this is where my certified X-Com X-pert (®) status comes into play.

I've put in my hundred plus hours with the old game, and another hundred plus with the spin offs. I even beat Enforcer twice, due to a series of what could charitably called "questionable life decisions".

All that gives me ground to say that, yes.

The old game would sometimes decide to screw you over, and there was nothing you can do.

Submitted for your consideration, a typical X-Com base. No temporal resets. No second chances. Just brave men and women, looking into the dark and seeing monsters.

In their first week of service, they joke. They laugh. They hide their fear. This is all a prank. No invader from the stars is coming.

Then a radar signature appears. Small and cruel, the ship passes overhead with the screaming of a nightmare. One of the fighter pilots chases after the craft, eventually forcing it down in a hail of nuclear fire.

The men and women of the base forget their jokes, their hopes, and their families. All they know now is fear and desperation. On landing half of the mission force is wiped out by a single creature. The spoils of the alien craft are nothing compared to the loss of life, but there is a last, small comfort for the dead. They died keeping Earth free.

Less than a week passes in study and contemplation when a second craft arrives, a monster the size of the X-Com base. The prayers of the radar team are in vain as the craft lands at the X-Com base.

What follows is one of the most desperate battles in human history. 14 soldiers with surplus rifles against an army of grey aliens and their robotic weapons of terror.

Somehow, against all odds, they endure and triumph. The cost was great, but they endure. Humanity endures.

But the replacements for the dead had barely arrived when a second craft, the equal of the first, attacked.

Another desperate struggle. More good people dead and mutilated, heroic valor forgotten in the mere struggle to survive.

But it is, despite the cost, another victory. X-Com proved itself that day. Even broken and bleeding, they are Earth's shield. And when the call comes, when the aliens abandon the hard prey of Earth's soldiers to attack its helpless citizens, X-Com follows. They will not abandon their duty.

Then the base is vaporized by Sectoids the second the skyranger is out the door.


It is commonly said "his number was just up". That man does not decide his fate, but has it chosen for him. Harmless thought in the light of day. A terrifying truth in...

The Twilight Zone.

(One small scout, then two base assaults in a row, then a terror mission and a base assault at the same time. Go on. Try to say old X-com always gave you a fair chance. Try.)

[Murska]

That sounds totally awesome. I did mention 'exceedingly rare' - I've never seen anything like it.

And look at the story you wrote of it. This is not only a memorable occurrence, but also something that would be fun to play (in my opinion) simply because you're desperately battling to prolong the inevitable and achieving costly but oh so heroic victories against an overwhelming foe. Of course, if the game did this all the time, that would get annoying. But as a situation that could possibly happen, it's a worthwhile one. Especially since it's far more likely to just get the part with two base assaults that you manage to barely defeat and then turn that around into a beautiful victory, forever remembering the epic struggle you fought to get there.

[stabbybelkar]

Mr. Blonde and the Nice Guy are from Reservoir Dogs, and maybe "Matt" Jeevas? It's been a while, and that movie wasn't terribly big on giving out the names of its characters. Rebecca Jordan... I swear I've heard that name before, but where... And why would giving out the nickname make it too obvious? Wait...

The little girl from Aliens insisted that nobody called her Rebecca, and Newt would have been way too obvious. Is that it? I haven't the slightest idea if her last name was Jordan, though, so I could easily be way off base on that one.

Three out of four. Mr. Blonde and Nice Guy are indeed from Reservoir Dogs, and Rebecca Jordan is Newt from Aliens. However, I am afraid that Mail "Matt" Jeevas is not from Reservoir Dogs. Here's a hint, he's from an anime.

[RagingKrikkit]

I've played Impossible Ironman and finished the game. I've also played the original on Superhuman Ironman Hawaii One-Base challenge mode and won, as well as two games of first normal and then Superhuman only buy weapons challenge.

I'm not saying the new one can't be difficult. Running out of money and having nations panic and so on. But it doesn't have the feel of you being inferior to the aliens, it doesn't make me afraid and it feels more limited. A good game, sure, but the original is a more fun game to play.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww213/Bestrafer_fin/X-Com/UFODefense2009-08-1204-57-20-96.jpg

When this happens, I get interested in a game, not frustrated with it. It's sad that most modern games are not 'unfair' It's not supposed to feel balanced, it's supposed to feel like an utterly superior alien species is toying with you for unknown reasons.

Just going to dig this image back up, because it reminds me of something that happened in my first playthough of the mew XCOM. My best six troops deployed to one of the graveyard maps (the one with the statue, not the building), and as soon as they ducked behind the fence, Mutons and Berzerkers swarmed out of the shadows and killed four within two turns. I managed to get an assault and a sniper back to the skyranger, both wounded, and leaving me with two wounded, four dead, and no kills thanks to the worst RNG screwing I have ever seen. I ended up doing the final mission right next, with my last six troops: a Colonel assault, a Major sniper, and four Squaddies.

[Thanatos 51-50]

There's a couple of things New XCOM does that I don't like.
1) It doesn't proceduraly generate maps (Although, with cover being such a huge deal, I understand why).
2) If you're losing and need to bug out on a mission, you still salvage all the armour, weapons, and equipment from the corpses.
3) you cannot craft Alien Grenades

[BRC]

3) you cannot craft Alien Grenades
Actually, you can. Kind of. There is a foundry upgrade that gives you unlimited Alien Grenades. I usually find it easier to just stun two or three Mutons, which gives me all the alien grenades I need, since you don't lose Alien Grenades when you use them.

[RagingKrikkit]

Really, you don't loose the 'nades? Didn't know that.

[Badgerish]

I suspected it, with the way ammo works. Thought it was worth a test and it paid out, although I under-used explosives n my last run so it didn't really matter.

[Kalmarvho]

The number of Alien Grenades you have in stock is merely the amount you can equip.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Actually, you can. Kind of. There is a foundry upgrade that gives you unlimited Alien Grenades. I usually find it easier to just stun two or three Mutons, which gives me all the alien grenades I need, since you don't lose Alien Grenades when you use them.

Well, then. Consider that objection moot.
I've been Mind-controlling Mutons to use their grenades.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Alright, so on my first solid play of the original XCOM (Experienced difficulty, because Beginner had things happening way too infrequently), I got my first terror mission.

It started off something like this.

*tank rolls out of the Skyranger*

*tank gets shot dead*

*send out a trooper to look in the direction of the fire*

...Cyberdisc.

CRAP.

*shoots it dead after three soldier's worth of move-shoot*

*Cyberdisc explodes*

...Oh. Right. I forgot they do that.

*kills one of my troopers (he was just inside the explosion radius), and also kills ANOTHER Cyberdisc that was hiding behind a wall, and reveals a Sectoid as most of the wall he was hiding behind gets blown to bits*

The Sectoid still had enough wall that I think only one of my troopers had line of fire from their current position.

Overall, it was a total party wipe, with the map holding at least six Cyberdiscs and a bunch of Sectoids.

My funds were stretched pretty thin as it is, and an interceptor had been shot down by a large UFO (I didn't pull him out as soon as he ran out of missiles), which then escaped because the other interceptor was way back at base. I had four rookies, no tanks, no lasers (although I think the engineers were working on that), and one interceptor. I quit the game, although I could go back and just bite the big panic increase from ignoring the terror mission, or try the mission again to see if my luck changes.

[Murska]

Don't ever ignore a terror mission, or preferrably any mission. If you can't defeat it, then land and immediately take off. Your loss of points from losing a mission is much less than the loss of points from ignoring it altogether.

[Krade]

Sytem: Xbox 360
GITP Name: Krade
Username: Krade2k20
Time Available: Mid-afternoon to evenings most days (EST/GMT-5)

EDIT: While I know you can adjust the point cap in custom matches, I actually prefer to keep it at 10,000. The strict limit forces strategy over brute strength, which encourages diversity and keeps things interesting. Increasing or even removing the cap altogether would only result in two fully equipped squads of Colonels and Psychics going at each other and having the game be decided more on luck than on strategy.

[Iskandar]

So the first DLC is here, and it is, hmm, underwhelming is perhaps the kindest thing I can say about it.

I'm getting increasingly upset at Firaxis, actually. They released this wonderful, wonderful game about 95% done. the amount of bugs and broken game mechanics is just unacceptable in a supposedly AAA game. And the post-release support has been apathetic at best, with two patches that did little to fix the worst game breaking bugs. And now we have a DLC that is pretty much counter to everything that makes the game great in the first place.

I am somewhat bewildered, at this point. I am used to games that started out bad, and got patched up to something playable. What I am not used to is having a wonderful game steadily worn away by piss poor support and show stopping bugs.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well, I got the new DLC. I haven't started a new game yet to try the missions, but the new troop customization options come online right away and they're not bad. New hair/helmet styles, new voices, and new armor decos are all pretty sweet. Sadly no new armor colors. The new deco for the carapace armor is especially good, although I haven't progressed further than that on my current game to check the other armors since I'm back to playing on classic.



As an aside, I think my current game's time is almost up. I had my starting base in S. America, which actually seems like a decent idea if you're going to try to go straight for plasma weapons by prioritizing captures. Unfortunately, a few key mistakes have thrown a wrench into my plans: I was running super low on money and sold my Elerium (I knew it was a mistake but I did it anyway), only to realize I needed to save some for researching the captured plasma weapons! Thanks to the research credit from a captured floater, I was still able to get carapace armor in time for my first terror mission, but I could only afford to make two suits. The mission was going really well for a while with my squad of Support, Heavy, and 2 squadsight Snipers, until I found a pair of chryssalids and simultaneously triggered a group of floaters on my flank. :(

Suffice it to say that I haven't beaten a single mission since then and all I have left is rookies. My other mistake was accidentally missing my opportunity to deploy 2 sattelites before the end of the month and only getting forty credits at the end of the second month. I'm still alive for now, but I doubt I'll be able to train up a new batch of recruits with just regular guns against floaters and mutons and thin men.



EDIT: Anybody know why the evac zone doesn't show up in some missions (especially terror missions)? Is that a bug, or are you not allowed to evac from terror missions? Seems like a bug, 'cause I've seen it missing on others like abductions and crashed UFOs as well.

[Iskandar]

EDIT: Anybody know why the evac zone doesn't show up in some missions (especially terror missions)? Is that a bug, or are you not allowed to evac from terror missions? Seems like a bug, 'cause I've seen it missing on others like abductions and crashed UFOs as well.

That is a bug. Sometimes reloading ill fix it, sometimes not so much. Also, check to see if the evac zone got rotated. Occasionally the game will rotate the evac zone 90 degrees, from one map edge to another.

It is stuff like this that is making my ironman runs nearly impossible. I have a hard enough time recovering from my own mistakes, dealing with losses due to bad mechanics and bugs is a whole 'nother problem.

[RagingKrikkit]

I started a Classic Ironman, and everything was going fine. I got two Lieutenants and a pair of sergants, and they were killing ALL the aliens. Then I hit an abduction mission, triggered 5 groups of aliens in one move, and lost my Assault and Heavy. I start moving my Support and Sniper back... WHERE'S THE SKYRANGER?!?!?!?!?!?!

That file is currently sitting unplayed.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well I started a new game to try the new mission pack. Turns out that it's optional. When you get your first council mission, you have a choice between Slingshot and Random (like normal). Not sure exactly what happens if you turn it down, since I wanted to check it out. My guess is it waits there as an option whenever a new council mission pops up.

The first new map is pretty nice, a chinese graveyard. There's high ground with low walls on the sides around a large low area in the middle with a big tree in the center. Lot's of options for cover.

I tried taking the side route and it was a pretty good option, since it wasn't too hard to get flank shots from up there. Unfortunately, a bad streak of luck on the far side of the map plus my team having two assaults and no snipers ended up spelling doom for my long-range stealth strategy. With a better squad make-up, I'm sure I would have made it to the evac.

I think I am oh-so-slowly getting better at this game, though. Whatever, I still enjoy the challenge even when I get myself obliterated. I just wish losing a squad didn't inevitably lead to more and more losses and fresher and fresher troops. I had to quit my last game before I even got the game over because I had no soldiers, no money, no scrap to sell, and a week until the next council report bringing the end of my XCom command with no way to avert the rampant panic gripping basically the whole world due to repeatedly lost missions. :smallannoyed::smallsigh:

Okay, new strategy: SCOPEs for EVERYBODY! Well, everybody besides the medic.

EDIT: Updates

I beat the three new missions. Turns out you get to try again even after you fail one. Also, you won't get random council missions until after you finish. I heard that if you don't select the new missions when you get the choice the first time, they won't appear again, so if you want to do them you have to do them right away.

So, the second mission was a little tricky. Took me two tries to beat it. The second time, I had a full 6-man team (2 snipers, 2 supports, an assault, and a rookie) and laser rifles. I sent my fast-moving Support inside the train with my Assault to activate the transponder things, put the Rookie on top of the train, sent my other Support and one Sniper to the far side of the train (advancing from cover to cover and trying to keep up with the train team), while keeping my last Sniper on the near side to help deal with any aliens who came through the train or dropped in on the near side.

Turns out, I could have saved myself a turn at the end because I didn't realize that just ending your move in the area at the end of the train will end the mission. I assumed I'd need an action left to activate the controls or something, but you don't.

For the third mission, the map is the same as the battleship when you shoot one down later in the game, but MUCH EASIER as you're still facing mainly early game enemies. Once again, there are four devices which you either have to deactivate or destroy (a missed laser blast against an enemy taking cover behind one was good enough to destroy it). I didn't have any problems with this mission.

Once you get all four devices, the mission ends. You don't ever have to go into the battleship's control room, so I don't know what alien they might have had up there. The rewards for completing this mission are insane! Since the mission is to bring down the battleship intact, you get a metric ton of alien materials and elerium, along with all the nav computers and power sources and fusion cores.

Personally, I'm really glad I won't have to worry about shooting down battleships in the future, since that was a crazy hard mission even on Normal difficulty (probably the hardest I saw in my first complete playthrough).