Advice on multiclass bard?

[Alaeor]

Hullo all. I'm a fairly new player to 3.5, with not much hands on experience. The game I'm joining is core (minus Psionics) + DragonLance campaign setting, and the characters are starting at ten. I was hoping to get some advice on my current character design.

What I was going for was the general skill-monkey/PR guy coupled with a focus on tripping and other conditions in combat (Glitterdust, grease, hideous laughter, etc.)

Race: Human Alignment: Chaotic Good
Levels:
Rogue3/Ranger1/Fighter1/Bard4/Shadowdancer1
(Bard is the focus of the class, especially RP-wise, but the extra starting skill points from Rogue seemed best)

Scores:
Str: 16 (15+1)
Dex: 16
Con: 15
Int: 18 (17+1)
Wis: 13
Cha: 18

Saves:
Fort: 8
Reflex: 14
Will: 7

Feats:
Combat Expertise
-Improved Trip
Combat Reflex
Dodge*
-Mobility*
Quick Draw (Fighter feat. Chose so as to make use of nets more readily.)

*These were taken specifically to get Shadowdancer, which I took more for the Hide in Plain Sight ability than anything else.

Skills:(Spoiler'd due to size. Feel free to skip. Skills are especially house ruled, if any class has it as a class-skill then it's available whenever. Only listing skills I've placed ranks in.)

Balance: 10 (5 ranks + 3 Dex + 2 Synergy)
Bluff: 14 (10 ranks + 4 Cha)
Diplomacy: 22 (12 ranks + 4 Cha + 6 Synergy)
Disable Device(Replaced Open Locks): 11 (5 ranks + 4 Int + 2 Synergy)
Forgery: 8 (4 ranks + 4 Int)
Gather Information: 14 (8 ranks + 4 Cha + 2 Synergy)
Hide: 13 (10 ranks + 3 Dex)
Jump: 10 ( 5 ranks + 3 Dex + 2 Synergy)
Know(History): 12 (8 ranks + 4 Int)
Know(Noble/Royal): 9 (5 ranks + 4 Int)
Know(Local): 9 (5 ranks + 4 Int)
Listen: 11 (10 ranks + 1 Wis)
Move Silently: 11 (8 ranks + 3 Dex)
Perform(dance): 11 (6 ranks + 4 Cha)
Perform(sing): 10 (5 ranks + 4 Cha)
Search: 8 (4 ranks + 4 Int)
Sense Motive: 10 (9 ranks + 1 Wis)
Sleight of Hand: 13 (8 ranks + 3 Dex + 2 Synergy)
Spot: 11 (10 ranks + 1 Wis)
Swim: 7 (4 ranks + 3 Str)
Tumble: 17 (12 ranks + 3 Dex + 2 Synergy)
Use Magic Device: 5 (2 ranks + 4 Int)


Weapons:
+1 Guisarme
Masterwork Net (x3)
Masterwork Sap
Masterwork Composite Shortbow
-Arrows

[Urpriest]

What is the point of Ranger 1 in this build?

[Alaeor]

The thought was to grab favored enemy, but looking back this seems like a weak bonus to put an entire level towards.

[jokeaccount]

Couple of things i noticed:

1) These stats are insane and IMO wasted on a PR guy :p (out of topic but had to say it xD)

2) With so many base classes (4 actually) aren't you getting halved experience? You should be getting 50% xp at this

3) Also know that skill max rank is always counted as class skill when you have it as such

Would be cool if you could get a whip in order to trip people (don't know exactly what feats you need for that)
Also i don't know if all these classes mixed together make a good overall char. I believe a pure Battle Bard could be better if you build it right from the start. Here is a template another Gtiper sent me some time ago and I think it works real well (for lvl 11 though): http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=17445

[Treblain]

I would just go straight bard. You can still get that level of Shadowdancer without multiclassing, though it costs a lot of feats for one good ability (and HIPS isn't as good when you don't have too many sneak attack dice). Nothing really synergizes with bard because it has too many sources of abilities (combat, skills, music, spells...) that are weakened by multiclassing, especially in core. You get better bard abilities sooner and more uses of music and spells if you stick with it. It's okay to take a level of fighter for weapon proficiencies and a feat, but you won't get use out of the armor proficiencies because of your spellcasting.

[nedz]

18 Int, Human, Bard — that's 11 skill points per level; an extra 2 wwon't make too much difference. If it's skills you're after then you'd be better off switching Bardic Knowledge for Bardic Knack, though both options are good.

Bards get slow spell casting so if you're main focus is Bard then you want to maximise the number of levels of that.

There are good builds which dip Bard but that doesn't seem to be what you are looking for ?

Search for the Bard handbook, this has lots of good advice.

[Urpriest]

I would just go straight bard. You can still get that level of Shadowdancer without multiclassing, though it costs a lot of feats for one good ability (and HIPS isn't as good when you don't have too many sneak attack dice). Nothing really synergizes with bard because it has too many sources of abilities (combat, skills, music, spells...) that are weakened by multiclassing, especially in core. You get better bard abilities sooner and more uses of music and spells if you stick with it. It's okay to take a level of fighter for weapon proficiencies and a feat, but you won't get use out of the armor proficiencies because of your spellcasting.

The weapon proficiencies aren't all that necessary either, since Bard has whip proficiency, which is actually fairly good for a tripper.

[Darrin]

The bard class IS a multiclass. Drop Fighter and Ranger, they aren't worth it. Do Rogue 2 at a maximum, but only take any levels in rogue at all if you need trapfinding.


Ranger 1 can get Trapfinding with the Trap Expert ACF (Dungeonscape). Taking the Arcane Hunter ACF (Complete Mage) for Favored Enemy: Arcanists might come in handy as well. I also prefer taking Spiritual Connection (speak with animals/plants, from Complete Champion) over Wild Empathy.

If you want Improved Trip without taking Combat Expertise, then consider Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 (picking up Whirling Frenzy and maybe Spirit Lion Totem for Pounce along the way).

You can also get Hide in Plain Sight by taking one level of Warlock or Dragonfire Adept to get a darkness invocation as an SLA, and then take Blend Into Shadows (from Drow of the Underdark) to HiPS as a swift action. If you go DFA, that gives you Dragontouched as a bonus feat, which helps pave the way for Dragonfire Inspiration.

[Talya]

Don't forget he's only got Core (SRD) and Dragonlance books.

Bard optimization in core is a bit lacking.

[nedz]

Ranger 1 can get Trapfinding with the Trap Expert ACF (Dungeonscape). Taking the Arcane Hunter ACF (Complete Mage) for Favored Enemy: Arcanists might come in handy as well. I also prefer taking Spiritual Connection (speak with animals/plants, from Complete Champion) over Wild Empathy.

If you want Improved Trip without taking Combat Expertise, then consider Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 (picking up Whirling Frenzy and maybe Spirit Lion Totem for Pounce along the way).

You can also get Hide in Plain Sight by taking one level of Warlock or Dragonfire Adept to get a darkness invocation as an SLA, and then take Blend Into Shadows (from Drow of the Underdark) to HiPS as a swift action. If you go DFA, that gives you Dragontouched as a bonus feat, which helps pave the way for Dragonfire Inspiration.

Sadly, non of this is Core or, AFAIK, Dragonlance.

[Toliudar]

Even in core, I'd say that bard 12 is a more flexible and workable build. Gives up one or two dice of sneak attack and HiPS. Gets inspire greatness and fourth level bard spells.

[Talya]

Use the savage bard variant (which is core SRD). Nice spell selection, good fortitude save. It's all around better.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm

[Alaeor]

Thanks to all for the advice. After looking at the group, I've decided to rework the character to have a focus on magic-support and skill work. I'll likely go straight bard, due to the lack of choices in core. I may dip into mystic for the domain benefit, likely for Luck domain. I think the main issue with my current/previous build was the lack of focus on a particular play style, and the character would likely serve as an example of the saying "jack of all trades, master of none."

[Darrin]

Sadly, non of this is Core or, AFAIK, Dragonlance.

Sorry, I should have read the OP more carefully.

Do you have access to the Unearthed Arcana section of the SRD? That's where Wolf Totem Barbarian and Whirling Frenzy are from.