cool and flavorful grapple build

[samuraijaques]

Hey guys

I am looking to make a character that is extremely proficient but not limited to grappling. He is based off of a character i made a long time ago in my early D&D days and I have learned a lot since then so I wanted to rebuild him as he was one of the most fun characters I have ever played.

the build I was thinking goes something like this

half-giant bear spirit totem barbarian 1/ monk 2/ kensei 1/unarmed swordsage 1/ psiwarrior 15

abilities: strength and wisdom are the only 2 important attributes for this character. constitution should not be neglected though.

here's why:
- half giant for powerful build and the mediocre bonus pp (but mostly the powerful build)
- bear spirit totem barbarian for improved grab
- monk for improved unarmed strike, improved grapple and combat reflexes
- kensei for getting the hooking enchantment on my unarmed strikes to give them a +4 bonus to grapple checks
- swordsage for some neat maneuvers and qualification for crushing weight of the mountain
- psiwarrior for powers like grip of iron, expansion and vampiric weapon

and then came the feats (1 flaw taken)

these ones are required: talashtora (stack psiwar and monk levels for unarmed damage, AC and flurry of blows), monastic training (allows multiclassing as monk), weapon focus grapple (for kensei qualification)

these ones are important: multigrab, greater multigrab, martial stance crushing weight of the mountain, rending constriction, earth’s embrace (oriental adventures), throw enemy

and these ones might be interesting: shape soulmeld girallon arms, psycarnum infusion, azure talent, midnight augmentation, psionic meditation

and then there were items

amulet of mighty fists, gloves of titan's grip, monk's belt (this section needs work), anti magic trap (stored in an opaque bag)

and finally the powers

grip of iron, expansion, vampiric weapon, hustle, hostile empathic transfer and whatever else you want. i was thinking about using research to get telekinetic maneuver so that he could grapple people from a distance but wasn't sure if it would be worth it considering how effective he is at grappling up close and personal.

...

so, with just the required and important feats you have a character that has a very high grapple bonus up to 70+ if my math is correct that can grapple as many opponents a turn as he has limbs. he can make grapple checks as part of his unarmed attack; which does 4d8 damage. he deals constrict damage of 2d6 and if he can get two hands on something he can attempt to tear it in half with rending constriction. so definitely not too shabby.

with the incarnum feats this character could become much stronger, girallon arms give a nice +2 that can be further increased with psycarnum infusion. azure talent combined with psionic meditation and hustle provides free swift action power points; add midnight augmentation on top of that and you have free augmented powers. plus, having 2 extra arms is pretty cool, even if they aren't used for anything other than grappling or climbing.

i'm looking for advice on the choices i have made. does anything i have selected here seem like a bad idea? are there any recommendations you could make for additions not mentioned in this post? what do you think about the build overall?

looking forward to hearing from you

cheers

[docnessuno]

I would suggest substituting Psywar with War mind, losing bonus feats and power known, but gaining full BAB, very nice class features, while keeping about the same PPs, 5th level powers and freeing up 5 class levels, wich could go toward ToB classes.

[samuraijaques]

war mind is an interesting one, the only problem is this build is very feat intensive. if i gave up psychic warrior i would have to drop the incarnum stuff which i feel provides more flexibility than the war mind's class features (awesome as they may be).

i really like the war mind's class features, the rage like ability and the sweeping strike are both fantastic. but i am not sure if i want to give up the psycarnum infusion shenanigans, free power points are just too cool.

[Kazyan]

Whoa, watch where you're slinging those fluff restrictions! Kensai is a hard class to stay qualified for, and being lawful means you're not getting to use the barbarian's rage. Are you sure you can pull it off?

[samuraijaques]

i hadn't even noticed that. typically my dm is pretty lenient about alignment restrictions; but that is a good point. can you think of any way around that if he decides that the alignment restrictions should be adhered to? is one level of kensei for the hooking enchantment (+4 to grapple checks) a poor trade off?

[Kazyan]

Let's assume you're an Ex-Monk, so that you still keep the class features but can Rage. Taking Whirling Frenzy, you get, what, +4 Str and and extra attack? That's a +2 to grapple. You need another +2 to make up for losing Kensai, but I think in terms of probability, getting an extra attack to Improved Grab with will make up for that except in cases where the monster has an enormous grapple modifier. on the other hand, that's for one encounter a day.

On the third hand, +1 Hooking Necklace of Natural Attacks, applying to your unarmed strikes, which is legal because of those Monk levels. Kensai replaced for 8,000 gp. Also +1 to hit.

[Seharvepernfan]

Mostly off-topic, but you might be interested.

I recently made a summoner whose eidolon was grapple-focused. Have you ever considered that?

[docnessuno]

Necklace of natural attacks with monk levels pretty much removes the need for the kensai class.

[samuraijaques]

@kazyan
whirling frenzy is a good idea. and you are right, kensei is useless, i'll just get the amulet. what should i do with that extra level?

@Seharvepernfan
i specifically wanted to make a character that grappled things by himself. those kind of grapplers have been done too many times.

@docnessuno
definitely

so i am dropping the level of kensei and picking up an necklace of natural attacks. what should i do with that level?

also, i was wondering about the mantled warrior ACF that allows you to trade one of the psychic warrior bonus feats for a mantle from complete psionics. i thought that that sounded like a good trade.

[Kazyan]

@kazyan
whirling frenzy is a good idea. and you are right, kensei is useless, i'll just get the amulet. what should i do with that extra level?

Draconic template? +2 to Str and Con, and a pair of claws. Use 'em as secondary natural weapons for another two shots at Improved Grabbing the other guy.

EDIT: Thinking about this more, the Str and Con are really the patch for what would otherwise happen to your to-hit and HP, so the real yummy is the claws.

[samuraijaques]

wouldn't the claws do significantly less damage than my unarmed strikes? i end up with full monk unarmed damage (4d8) and a necklace of natural attacks does apply to a monk's unarmed strikes. is there another reason why you think i should get claws?

[Kazyan]

wouldn't the claws do significantly less damage than my unarmed strikes? i end up with full monk unarmed damage (4d8) and a necklace of natural attacks does apply to a monk's unarmed strikes. is there another reason why you think i should get claws?

You add the claws to your full attack routine--it's not necessarily either-or. Basically, when you do a full attack with unarmed strikes, you also get the two claw attacks, at a -5 penalty.

[samuraijaques]

oh wow, okay, does that work with a flurry of blows? because that would be 4 extra attacks right there. I could also pick up rapidstrike and snap kick and go nuts. considering my movement speed is very high and i have access to hustle, making full attacks would be very easy. but i am not sure if i want to go that route, i would like snap kick but i don't feel like the dragonblood template fits the theme of the character.

which i realize hasn't been explained at all; that is totally my bad.

he was supposed to be a character that could grapple much better than his size or shape would lead you to believe. i wanted him to look mostly normal. that's why i wanted to stay away from shapchanging, magical grappling (like with evard's black tentacles), grappling with summons or anything that wasn't just him. i am aware that this is not the optimal way to grapple and is actually extremely dangerous against many creatures, but come on, i can jack his grapple up to 70+, i think that is enough to justify not taking the other more effective routes. the claws thing is also not something i can see him doing, he has always been a monk, and he has always used an open handed technique to deliver blows while simultaneously establishing a firm grip on his opponent.

hopefully that helps explain some of the choices i have made.

thanks for the continued help

cheers

[samuraijaques]

hey guys,

i wrote up a build for this just now, tell me what you think.

Freki the ****
Half-Giant

abilities: 16 str, 17 dex, 14 con, 12 int, 14 wis, 10 cha
(i actually rolled these)

level 1: Monk 1, feats: monastic training, greater multigrab, multigrab
2: monk 2
3: Monk 2/ Barbarian 1, feats: martial study (mountain hammer)
4: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 1, feats: talashtora, +1 str
5: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 2, feats: martial stance (crushing weight of the mountain)
6: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 3, feats: rending constriction
7: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 4
8: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 5, feats: snap kick, +1str
9: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 6, feats: shape soulmeld (girallon arms)
10: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 7
11: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 8, feats: psionic meditation
12: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 9, feats: azure talent, +1wis
13: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 10
14: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 11, feats: psycarnum infusion
15: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 12, feats: midnight augmentation

after that i don't really know what to do. i'm looking for advice.

should i keep taking psychic warrior? if so what feats should i get? if not, what other class/PrC should i take?

tell me what you think

[docnessuno]

Multigrab requires improved grab, so you cannot take that at level 1.
Some of the PsyWar feats you took are not fighter bonus feats or psionic feats (IE: Snap kick, talashtora)
You need IL 3 to grab mountain hammer and IL 7 to grab crushing weight of the mountain. Without initiator classe you need to be at level 6 and 14 to take them.

Given that build, i would take Psywar to 16 for 6th level powers, then take a dip in warblade for some manouvers and stances (also Freeing up the feats you spent on them)

If you don't know wich feats to take, praticed manifester is a nice option

[samuraijaques]

sorry about that, yeah that first build isn't looking too good. i suppose that's why i put it here though.

level 1: Monk 1, feats: monastic training, shape soulmeld (girallon arms), talashtora
2: monk 2
3: Monk 2/ Barbarian 1, feats: multigrab
4: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 1, feats: psionic meditation, +1 str
5: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 2, feats: psycarnum infusion
6: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 3, feats: greater multigrab
7: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 4
8: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 5, feats: azure talent , +1 str
9: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 6, feats: snap kick
10: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 7
11: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 8, feats: midnight augmentation
12: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 9, feats: martial study (mountain hammer), +1 wis
13: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 10
14: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 11, feats: martial stance (crushing weight of the mountain)
15: Monk 2/ Barbarian/ Psi Warrior 12, feats: rending constriction

okay, that looks better. taking the martial study and stance later means that i can pick up the incarnum stuff for free power points earlier. it also moves back rending constriction.

i double checked to make sure these were all legal levels to take the feats at. tell me if i made any mistakes and what you think of the new build.

thanks for the replies