Middle-Earth setting for WFRP system?

[Cikomyr]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering of the validity of using the Middle-Earth as a setting using WFRP rules. Since in Middle-Earth, becoming corrupted by the Forces of Evil, either in mind or in flesh is very possible, I thought it might be an interesting fit.

Now, we'd probably have to dispense with some of the spellcasting rules for players. And we need to avoid established canon (I'd probably take the Spoony approach to the Lore: I don't care about what was supposed to happen at this period of time, we are basically re-writting most of the history). For example, if the players come across a Ring of Power, I don't want any Tolkien Loremaster to say it can't be Ring X or Y because all of them were accounted for at time W and Z.


Now, I was wondering if there was an age you'd suggest to adopt. Obviously, the timeframe of the Lord of the Rings themselves isn't what I want. I do not want the players to actually feel re-enacting the same freakkin' story. I was thinking somewhere between the Last Alliance War, and the fall of Arnor?

Any suggestion? Any comments? How would you reflect the Rings of Power in game rules?

[Water_Bear]

Well, it seems like your biggest problem is going to be adapting the races. I haven't read the WHFRP 3e books, yet, but what I know about the fluff assures me there will have to be some serious changes.

For example, Orks. Orcs in Tolkien didn't really have much in the way of magic (especially not Waaagh! style silliness) and were generally smaller than Men, built like stringy but powerful apes with an innate sense of sadism and cowardice. I'd say that you should probably drop the Orks entirely and refluff Skaven as the Orcs (although they'll need to lose the technology angle).

The High Elves and Forrest Elves should be okay, though you might need to de-Grimdark them depending on how their fluff and mechanics work exactly. Dwarves in Tolkien are much more secretive and have much less technological skill than in Warhammer, but that shouldn't be a big change. Orgres could be Trolls without much in the way of changes. Beastmen and Lizardmen have no place in Middle Earth, and only a small number of Undead should exist, most of them Wights and Wraiths.

[Cikomyr]

Oh, 2nd Edition all the way for me baby!


Thanks, that helps. Any suggestion of an interesting Age? What sort of Magic the non-Maiar can use? Like, I know some elves can do powerful stuff, and so can the Nazguls, etc... How do they come across that sort of power? Is this power solely made by the Rings?

[Raimun]

Just because there was only five wizards, doesn't mean magic is limited to them.

Most of the time, magic is very subtle and most likely found in item form. Remember the magical blades, elven cloaks, lembas, the rope given to Sam and so on?

It seems that you don't rings of power to know magic but I think normal people (humans) don't know much about it.
It appears the elves have more widespread knowledge of it. Galadriel and Elrond had even powers like telepathy (of sort).
All of the Maiar (Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron, etc.) depicted were powerful. Also, Mouth of Sauron was known to be a sorcerer and I assume the Nine had tricks up to their sleeves.

What is common to these people is that they are very old, perhaps even ancient and had a lot of time in their hands. I always assumed that you needed decades, perhaps even centuries to master magic.

Of course, there seemed to be innate magic. All elves could walk on top of snow and all hobbits were said to have magic that helped them hide better.

[Water_Bear]

The Elven view of magic can best be summed up by this quote from Galadriel, who Ariel from Warhammer is based on.


"For this is what your folk would call magic. I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem also to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy"

Elven (and Dwarven) magic is pretty much the most subtle, with craftsmanship blending the lines between obviously magical devices like the Elven Rings and Sting to almost-mundane objects like the camouflage Cloaks made by the elves of Loth Lorien. The oldest elves, those who lived in Valinor alongside the gods, can see into the Unseen world and have power there that even other Elves don't but that's rare and not very clear.

The magic of the Maiar, from Sauron and the Balrog to the Istari (Wizards) like Gandalf and Saruman, is a little more obvious. Saruman can speak and make people obey him, Gandalf is a master of fire and fireworks, Radagast can speak to various animals (particularly birds), etc. Still, it's not flashy or even too powerful; Gandalf never really made more than a small hand-grenade blast with his magic and needs fuel to make fire, Saruman's voice can be resisted with willpower and knowledge, etc.

These abilities can be, to some extent, taught to mortals and are then called Sorcery. This is primarily something the Enemy does, because Men aren't supposed to be able to do that kind of stuff. The Nazgul, for example, were once human sorcerers of Numenor who were turned into wraiths tied to the power of the Ring. Lesser Sorcerers exist, but they're not very powerful and tend to stay behind the scenes.

[WalkingTarget]

Elven (and Dwarven) magic is pretty much the most subtle, with craftsmanship blending the lines between obviously magical devices like the Elven Rings and Sting to almost-mundane objects like the camouflage Cloaks made by the elves of Loth Lorien. The oldest elves, those who lived in Valinor alongside the gods, can see into the Unseen world and have power there that even other Elves don't but that's rare and not very clear.

To expand a bit: Tolkien was on record talking about the Elves' gift being their Art - they are the ultimate craftsmen (approached by the Dwarves when speaking of stone and metals, though). Within their individual skill, they are able to perfectly realize their intention via their craft. Think platonic ideals - their swords are the best swords, cloaks the best cloaks, ships the best ships. The limit is the vision of the craftsman. Sting glows when around Orcs because it was made during a war against Orcs, and a warning system was useful. The Rings are derived from the arts of Sauron, so while the Three are more beautiful and greater than the other 16 (the Seven and the Nine), the baseline powers they all granted (preservation being the main one) are derived from Sauron rather than being Elvish in origin.

Good points overall, though.