[PF] Magus Dex vs Str

[FatherMalkav]

So I was looking at the Magus class and started building one for fun. Light armor and class flavor seemed to me to lend it self to Higher Dex + Weapon Finesse, but it IS a melee class so the added Strength is useful for damage + not chewing up a feat on WF. Whats the opinion of other playgrounders?

[Blyte]

if you have a shot at getting an agile weapon off the bat or soon in game, then dex build all the way.

if you are going kensai, then dex build.

[docnessuno]

A staple of the Dex magus is the dervish dance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat) feat, allowing to use Dex for damage rolls (well, to hit too, but requires finesse) while using a scimitar one-handed.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Dex Magus is better for reducing MAD as you can dump str to a fair extent and helps *slightly* (less than you may think, though) with AC. At least at early levels. The AC you can pull w/ mithral full plate is pretty good, once Magus is proficient in it and can ignore the spell failure %.

Str Magus saves you feats, which can be nice for a feat-intensive build. Like one going for Crane Wing. Or a Hexcrafter looking to pick up as many hexes and hex-related feats he can. Or, if you're a masochist.... both.

[Anderlith]

For the most part it doesn't matter so much. mostly a flavor thing. I prefer strength IMHO they are a bit more straight forward. For some info I'll point you to this

Walter's Guide to the Magus - Google Docs
https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1DB6sOfbAzFmKVPgcyLWipTVqvWFjfDSv6v_YiGQb5 Yw&pli=1&authkey=CNnM-cEJ

[Ravens_cry]

Given that a Magus only gets the heavy armour proficiency pretty late game, unless I am starting at that level, and even still as Dex also does touch AC, I prefer a Dex build, whether with an Agile weapon or Dervish dance.

[Psyren]

Honestly I would prefer Dex with a magus for several reasons:

1) +Dex/+Int races are common (Elves, Sylphs, Blues etc.) while +Str/+Int are rarer.
2) Though you get less melee damage, between your spells and your arcane pool you have more than enough sources of bonus damage to compensate.
3) Because you're subject to ASF (at least initially) you can't pile on the armor and shield without messing up your spellcasting. Being kept to lighter armors will mean a higher Dex is necessary to protect you. In addition, shields will mess with your Spell Combat.
4) Dex will also benefit your ranged options e.g. rays.

Ultimately, the main draw for strength-melee is damage and CMB for maneuvers. Magi can compensate for both of these with magic and feats, while reaping all the other considerable benefits that high dex provides.

[FatherMalkav]

Anderlith, Walter's Guide to the Magus is an awesome resource. Thanks a lot!

That said, I feel like I'm missing something. Under the 'Breakdown of Builds' section it gives a Dervish build example quoting a +4 to hit at level one with a Scimitar. I'm unsure where it's getting this as Weapon Finesse does not apply to Scimitar's and the build mentions no other weapon.

Am I missing something, or is this a miscalculation?

[jmelesky]

That said, I feel like I'm missing something. Under the 'Breakdown of Builds' section it gives a Dervish build example quoting a +4 to hit at level one with a Scimitar. I'm unsure where it's getting this as Weapon Finesse does not apply to Scimitar's and the build mentions no other weapon.

Am I missing something, or is this a miscalculation?

Not a miscalculation, just something not mentioned, I suspect.

At level 1-2, you'd use a rapier (very similar stats, but finessable by default). Once you hit level 3, you get Dervish Dance, and you start using a scimitar.

[Anderlith]

It's the dervish feat that does it

Dervish Dance (Combat) - Pathfinder_OGC
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat


Personally I like a more Strength based build, so I'm not too familiar to the subtleties

[docnessuno]

Anderlith, Walter's Guide to the Magus is an awesome resource. Thanks a lot!

That said, I feel like I'm missing something. Under the 'Breakdown of Builds' section it gives a Dervish build example quoting a +4 to hit at level one with a Scimitar. I'm unsure where it's getting this as Weapon Finesse does not apply to Scimitar's and the build mentions no other weapon.

Am I missing something, or is this a miscalculation?

I think that's an oversight on Walter's part. A dex build should use any finessable weapon (rapier is probably the best non-exotic chocie) untill level 3.

[FatherMalkav]

In the interest of Thread Necromancy and furthering the questions required of this build: Spells!

I was happy to find a lot of my spell selection was already listed as smart choices based on Walters Guide. There are a few unlisted though, so I thought to ask the more experienced players for their trials and tribulations (or speculations regarding these spells in question.

Call Weapon - Cool flavor, but is it actually useful or is it too situational?

Illusion of Calm - Seems like a great way to avoid Concentration checks at lower levels. If you have a respectable AC (18 unbuffed) is it worth it despite teh hit = second check quality?

Mirror Strike - Same question as Call Weapon: Seems useful but low damage unless backed by Shocking Grasp ot another spell.

Warding Weapon - Same purpose as Illusion of Calm (and cool flavor/imagery). Opinions?

[Psyren]

Call Weapon - Cool flavor, but is it actually useful or is it too situational?

As intended, too situational I'd say. If your ally needs the weapon (and why are they holding it if they don't?) then it's a wasted slot. And why don't you have a weapon, mr. gish?

There's a nice trick with this though: you count as your own ally, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary#TOC-Ally) so just target yourself with it for +2 circumstance to attack and damage for the whole round. Not bad for a first-level spell. The weapon flies from one hand to the other and you proceed to full-attack. You can even spell combat this, causing it to negate spell combat's penalty and give you a damage bonus.



Illusion of Calm - Seems like a great way to avoid Concentration checks at lower levels. If you have a respectable AC (18 unbuffed) is it worth it despite teh hit = second check quality?

It could be useful, yeah. I would have preferred a swift action but you can always cast it and then move into position. What's nice about it is they have to hit you to make a save, so if you have high AC/miss chance, or they're focusing on someone else, they will be denied AoOs against you all fight long, while you spell combat with impunity.


Mirror Strike - Same question as Call Weapon: Seems useful but low damage unless backed by Shocking Grasp ot another spell.

Meh. Because of how hit points work in 3.P, it's always better to focus down one enemy than to chip away at multiples but leave them standing. You've got better ways to AE than this.


Warding Weapon - Same purpose as Illusion of Calm (and cool flavor/imagery). Opinions?

I like that this has no save, but IoC doesn't have a save either unless they hit you. In the meantime, this is 10x shorter (read: useless at first-level, when AoOs are the most dangerous) and disarms you for the duration, unless you burn actions getting another weapon out. Personally I'd stick with one or the other, and I'd lean towards IoC.


EDIT: Also, Thread Necromancy starts at 6 weeks, not 4, so you should be fine there.