As an epic cleric, do you want...

[Josiah30]

11th level spell slots, or Extra Spell: Shapechange?

I'm going to have a choice between the two soon. At 21 I took Expanded Spell Capacity, meaning I can cast 10th level spells. This allows Extra Spell to give me Shapechange (even though I don't have the Animal domain).

Alternatively, I can take Expanded Spell Capacity again, and get to Persist/Extend 4th level spells (Divine Power, Recitation) without using Turn Undead charges, freeing them up for something else.

Which would you prefer?

[Kazyan]

Extra Spell: Shapechange (I'm assuming you're using the reading that allows it, then). What do I need 11th-level spell slots for, anyway? At epic levels, you should have more than enough DMM to Persist whatever you want. You can buy nightsticks with your pocket change, if they're available.

Even if not...dude, Shapechange. Ask Tippy about some of the tame things you can do with that thing.

[Josiah30]

Cool. Thanks for the advice. Is there a reading that means you can't add spells for some reason? Or is it the 10th level thing?

As to nightsticks, Libris Mortis isn't an available source. For this campaign, our sources are SRD + Complete series (minus Complete Adventurer, because the DM doesn't like it). Right now I have 21 turn attempts per day, so can only DMM three spells per day.

Also, I'm not looking to be super cheesy with Shapechange. Anything that involves getting unlimited wish/miracle, or even a few for free, wouldn't fly with the DM. I may be able to get away with cauchemar and some silliness there, and a few other things, but our house rule on polymorphing is that we have to have seen the thing we are changing into. That gives me Titan, Balor, and Astral Deva as probably the best available forms, though we did run into a seraphim (custom angel of an alternate pantheon) that has solar-like stats.

Anyway, I'm curious to hear what other forms are available in core that are abusable. Seeing as how I can gate, just about any outsider is possible. Anything with medium size and humanoid shape is probably best so I can keep my gear.

[Kazyan]

Chokers give you an extra standard action per turn. That Balor form you certainly have is True Seeing as a free action with no material components. Chaos Beasts deliver a save-or-suck every time you hit. Nymphs can wear equipment and give you +Cha as a deflection bonus to saves, for when you really don't like those save DCs being thrown your way. Any Archon lets you Greater Teleport yourself and 50 pound of equipment at-will. Bulette + Sea Cat (or a fish) + Harpy (or any bird) covers all movement modes. If your opponent can't grapple, Dire Bear mans that you win.

Individually, each of these forms is just kinda handy. But the thing about Shapechange is that you can pick whichever one you want, every round. It can probably replace one of those buffs you're using, even.

EDIT: As for the reading, it's debated whether Extra Spell only applies to spells on your spell class's spell list, or if it lets you grab other things. This forum being full of optimizers, it's been mentioned for things as tame as "I can't get scrolls in my game and I really need this cool spell" and as powerful as "Can I get a side of Favor of the Martyr with my Wizardburger?"

[Josiah30]

Funny...to me it seems like "Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research" is as close to specifically saying "learn a spell from another class list" as possible, though I suppose there is some ambiguity. I haven't asked my DM about it, so I should probably do that before I go ahead and take it.

Also, it's probably true that with Shapechange I wouldn't need to persist Divine Agility (Heirophant: Divine Reach allows it) anymore, and if I consistently run around as a Solar I don't need Holy Aura as much anymore, either.

[Kazyan]

Again, it's debated. Picking up one spell for the price of a feat doesn't strike me as overpowered compared to other options, even though the more restrictive interpretation looks like the intent to me. But, y'know, this is one of the many cases where you can't make a convincing argument for RAI, so use whichever interpretation your DM allows.

And yeah, that's Shapechange used responsibly for you.