sizing weapon loophole??

[animewatcha]

Sizing weapon enhancement from MIC. Tacked onto necklace of natural attacks ( or mighty fist amulet ) with the monk's body unarmed strike language ( gotten however possible ). If your character has natural attacks like claws and stuff. The sizing enhancement ( jokingly though this does solve enlarge person problem ) should make the individual large size category ( possibly even with added str/con and other goodies and penalties. Shouldn't 'increase in size category' inadvertantly wind up increasing claws and stuff since one's whole body increased in size category?

[Uncle Pine]

By RAW? No. Your body actually didn't increase in size category, your natural weapons did. You'll get the extra damage, but also the penalty for not using a weapon of your size.
However, it's an interesting idea and it makes some sense. As a DM I wouldn't allow it though.

[JBento]

Bonus issue: Sizing weapon is for weapons, not necklaces.

[JeminiZero]

There was a similiar thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240705) a while back.

[Uncle Pine]

Bonus issue: Sizing weapon is for weapons, not necklaces.

Necklaces of natural attacks lets you enhance your natural weapons. You can find it in Savage Species.

[Ashtagon]

Necklaces of natural attacks lets you enhance your natural weapons. You can find it in Savage Species.

Does not compute.

Necklace goes on your neck. That's fine. Where is the sizing weapon property going? Not on your bare fists, because you can't enchant those. Not on the necklace because it's not a weapon either.

[Than]

You can actually enchant your fists. Monks unarmed strikes are counted as manufactured and natural weapons for the purposes of spells and effects. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm)

[docnessuno]

You can actually enchant your fists. Monks unarmed strikes are counted as manufactured and natural weapons for the purposes of spells and effects. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm)

You cannot, not with the standard method a least. Your fists are not masterwork.


Does not compute.

Necklace goes on your neck. That's fine. Where is the sizing weapon property going? Not on your bare fists, because you can't enchant those. Not on the necklace because it's not a weapon either.

Maybe when a specific magic item comes up you should read it before talking about it.

[TuggyNE]

You cannot, not with the standard method a least. Your fists are not masterwork.

More precisely, you can put spells like magic weapon or magic fang on, but you cannot put permanent special abilities like Flaming directly on your fists, because (as mentioned) they're not masterwork weapons.


Maybe when a specific magic item comes up you should read it before talking about it.

Specifically, the entire purpose of the necklace of natural attacks is to allow you to put weapon-specific special abilities on the necklace and have them apply to natural attacks.

[Namfuak]

There was a similiar thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240705) a while back.

If you aren't interested in reading through the thread, from a rules perspective you can by RAW use sizing on natural weapons or unarmed strike (for a monk) with Necklace of Natural Attacks. I'd imagine by RAW you would not be able to use your natural weapons or unarmed strike if it were more than 2 sizes larger than you, and normal penalties for one size larger, but if your DM rules that you can use the "Monk uses any part of her body for her unarmed strikes" clause to say that using sizing for a monk lets him grow to any size, you would of course be able to use your unarmed attack at the new size.

[Darrin]

There was a similiar thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240705) a while back.

This is based on (or at least very similar to) the Morph Ball trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128988) that Sinfire Titan came up with (although he may not have been the first).

However, there's a quirk to the weapon sizing rules... the size of a weapon is not the same as its object size. Assuming your DM agrees that resizing your unarmed strike resizes your entire body, changing into a colossal-sized weapon would not increase your size to colossal. Since natural attacks are always considered light weapons, and light weapons are two sizes smaller than the creature they are sized for, your actual body size would be two steps down from colossal: huge. I'm not sure exactly if the game rules allow you to resize weapons beyond "colossal+". The text in the Sizing property isn't all that specific:

"Activating a sizing weapon changes its size category to any other that you desire."

Hmm. Presumably, size category refers to the weapon size, not the object size, but that whole "desire" thing kinda leaves quite a bit of wiggle room.

[Uncle Pine]

Does not compute.

Necklace goes on your neck. That's fine. Where is the sizing weapon property going? Not on your bare fists, because you can't enchant those. Not on the necklace because it's not a weapon either.

Actually you can get a flaming corrosive desiccating whatever +1 unarmed strike.
Remember:


A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
(Bold mine)

Necklace of natural attacks (Savage Species) specifically enables you to apply weapon properties to any number of natural attacks. Price: (600 gp + properties' cost)*number of natural weapons enhanced.
A monk can indeed use his whole body to make unarmed attacks, but he has only one natural weapon (his body).
Profit.

EDIT: Also, note that you don't need masterwork natural weapons to wear a necklace of natural attacks.

[2xMachina]

More precisely, you can put spells like magic weapon or magic fang on, but you cannot put permanent special abilities like Flaming directly on your fists, because (as mentioned) they're not masterwork weapons.



Specifically, the entire purpose of the necklace of natural attacks is to allow you to put weapon-specific special abilities on the necklace and have them apply to natural attacks.

Claim your char's parents spent the 300 gp to make a masterwork baby, and thus your char actually has masterwork fists.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Claim your char's parents spent the 300 gp to make a masterwork baby, and thus your char actually has masterwork fists.
You get a cookie for making me laugh.

Also, I love the image of a monk with giant smashy fists. (As an aside, just let it happen. Monks don't get enough love as-is.)

[only1doug]

Claim your char's parents spent the 300 gp to make a masterwork baby, and thus your char actually has masterwork fists.

Don't forget the taking additional time while crafting and making a seperate DC20 skill check while crafting.

"with my +19 at *ahem* I can easily make DC20 Craft Baby checks!"

[Andreaz]

Does not compute.

Necklace goes on your neck. That's fine. Where is the sizing weapon property going? Not on your bare fists, because you can't enchant those. Not on the necklace because it's not a weapon either.
Necklace of Natural Attacks is a container for weapon enchantments that are then spread across all your natural weapons. So sizing can be used there without any sort of rule conflict.


You can actually enchant your fists. Monks unarmed strikes are counted as manufactured and natural weapons for the purposes of spells and effects. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm)Correct, you can enchant and make it permanent. But you cannot make a magic item out of it.

So you could throw and make permanent things like Greater magic fang or Greater magic weapon, flaming weapon, that cleric spell for bludgeoning weapons' size increase...

[mattie_p]

that cleric spell for bludgeoning weapons' size increase...

I believe you are thinking of Greater Mighty Wallop, sorc/wiz 3, but perhaps I am mistaken

[Ravens_cry]

Eh, applying weapon properties to natural attacks and unarmed strikes has all sorts of weirdness attached. For example, you can have throwing added.
Yes, just throwing.
I'll let your brain percolate that a bit.
Hint: What is the difference between ductility and elasticity?:smallamused:

[Andreaz]

Eh, applying weapon properties to natural attacks and unarmed strikes has all sorts of weirdness attached. For example, you can have throwing added.
Yes, just throwing.
I'll let your brain percolate that a bit.
Hint: What is the difference between ductility and elasticity?:smallamused:Let's ask Dhalsim.

[Ashtagon]

Eh, applying weapon properties to natural attacks and unarmed strikes has all sorts of weirdness attached. For example, you can have throwing added.
Yes, just throwing.
I'll let your brain percolate that a bit.
Hint: What is the difference between ductility and elasticity?:smallamused:

This gives new meaning to the phrase "throw a punch at the enemy".

[Ravens_cry]

Let's ask Dhalsim.
No, Dhalsim has throwing and *returning*.:smallbiggrin:

This gives new meaning to the phrase "throw a punch at the enemy".
And you're not getting it back.:smalltongue:

[Axier]

The weapon is the body, and yea, you are resizing your natural weapon, so I think if it was the first time I saw someone try to do this in my campagin, I would totally let it happen like that, because it is funny.

That being said, I wouldn't let it happen now... It is just too much.

[Malimar]

Claim your char's parents spent the 300 gp to make a masterwork baby, and thus your char actually has masterwork fists.

It occurs to me that items made of adamantine or mithral are, as per the material rules, always masterwork. If a warforged monk had Mithral Body or Adamantine Body (setting aside the fact that most of his other monk abilities would cease to work because he's now considered armored), would his fists then be masterwork, and thereby eligible to be enchanted directly?

[animewatcha]

Since warforged are made 'the good ol' fashioned way', can they start out masterworked?