(PF) A Question about Balanced Class Modification

[SmilingOverlord]

Hello everyone,
Longtime lurker, first-time poster here. First of all, let me say that you're all pretty great. This board has been an awesome resource, and I really appreciate that. Now, to my question.
I have found myself in love with the Pathfinder Rangers and Paladins, but, as tier four classes, they lack the versatility that I really enjoy. If I were to give each class the same spell progression of the PF Bard--I wouldn't give them 5th or 6th level spells, but they would get the orisons of the Druid and Cleric respectively--and gave the Ranger the option for an animal companion equal to that of the Druid with Hunter's Bond, would that be enough to give them the versatility of a low tier three?
Thank you so much for your time, everyone. Have a great day!

[grarrrg]

If I were to give each class the same spell progression of the PF Bard--I wouldn't give them 5th or 6th level spells, but they would get the orisons of the Druid and Cleric respectively--and gave the Ranger the option for an animal companion equal to that of the Druid with Hunter's Bond, would that be enough to give them the versatility of a low tier three?

No.
It would barely make a difference.
Giving them spell levels sooner would help, but limiting them to 4th level, without expanding the list or anything, would not do ANYTHING in the long run.

And the Animal Companion would be a minor boost, equivalent to a Ranger taking the Boon Companion feat.


If you really want to bump them a Tier, then give them up to 6th level spells, Paladin's would crib from the Inquisitor/Cleric list, Rangers from Druid/Cleric.
This would be a decent start.

[SmilingOverlord]

No.
It would barely make a difference.
Giving them spell levels sooner would help, but limiting them to 4th level, without expanding the list or anything, would not do ANYTHING in the long run.

And the Animal Companion would be a minor boost, equivalent to a Ranger taking the Boon Companion feat.


If you really want to bump them a Tier, then give them up to 6th level spells, Paladin's would crib from the Inquisitor/Cleric list, Rangers from Druid/Cleric.
This would be a decent start.

Thank you very much for your time! I really like this sort of move, but I'm worried that, since the two classes are strong combatants, that giving them 5th and 6th level spells might be too much. Do you all think that they might be too high in tier 3 with these additions?

[SowZ]

Thank you very much for your time! I really like this sort of move, but I'm worried that, since the two classes are strong combatants, that giving them 5th and 6th level spells might be too much. Do you all think that they might be too high in tier 3 with these additions?

Thing is, Druid and Cleric are also strong combatants. Even stronger at melee even with your first suggestion. Consider, Cleric gets 9th level spells and Domains. Druid gets 9th level spells and shapeshifting. Giving 5th and 6th level spells doesn't bring them up to that power level or even all that close to it, really.

[Anderlith]

Thank you very much for your time! I really like this sort of move, but I'm worried that, since the two classes are strong combatants, that giving them 5th and 6th level spells might be too much. Do you all think that they might be too high in tier 3 with these additions?

Look at it this way, a Magus, gets 6th level spells & is supposed to be a high damage dealer, with a d8. A ranger is a high damage dealer, with a d8.... how about showin' him some love & expand his spellslinging to level 6 as well? Same could almost be said for the Paladin but he's a tricky one, I'd have to think a bit about it

[grarrrg]

Look at it this way, a Magus, gets 6th level spells & is supposed to be a high damage dealer, with a d8. A ranger is a high damage dealer, with a d8.... how about showin' him some love & expand his spellslinging to level 6 as well? Same could almost be said for the Paladin but he's a tricky one, I'd have to think a bit about it


PSSSST! This is Pathfinder, Rangers have d10's now!

[Crustypeanut]

One small buff you could do is allow paladins and rangers each to pick one domain at level 4, gaining the associated abilities and bonus spells depending on the domain, with the abilities scaling at the Class Level -3.

Paladins could probably choose from the Healing, Good, Law, and Protection domains, while Rangers could pick from the Plant, Weather, Animal, and Travel domains. Its not a huge benefit, but it might be nice to see how it works out.

[SowZ]

One small buff you could do is allow paladins and rangers each to pick one domain at level 4, gaining the associated abilities and bonus spells depending on the domain, with the abilities scaling at the Class Level -3.

Paladins could probably choose from the Healing, Good, Law, and Protection domains, while Rangers could pick from the Plant, Weather, Animal, and Travel domains. Its not a huge benefit, but it might be nice to see how it works out.

Shoot, I'd just give them the full benefit of the domain if I was going that route. No, 'class level -3' business.

[rollforeigninit]

I was under the impression that Pf Paladins were actually approaching T3 anyways. They did do an awesome job on them. I'd be okay with the increased spellcasting but be careful if you allow 3.5 content in there. Battle Blessing with lvl 6 spells might make some other players cry.

[Psyren]

Look at it this way, a Magus, gets 6th level spells & is supposed to be a high damage dealer, with a d8. A ranger is a high damage dealer, with a d8.... how about showin' him some love & expand his spellslinging to level 6 as well? Same could almost be said for the Paladin but he's a tricky one, I'd have to think a bit about it

Rangers DO have full BAB though. WotC overvalued it, but not valuing it at all is bad too.