mystery base class (probably PF)

[Venger]

I'm starting a new game and we did character creation (or tried to) today. during creation, I asked another player what they were doing so I'd know what to put points in for skills and things. the player said they would be "keeping it a secret" which is something of a hindrance, since I did skillmonkey and wanted to know what slack I'd need to pick up.

what I know about the player's character:
reads minds
obtains power from knowing secrets
has cohorts (at level 3?)
has contacts
uses gather info as important to character
not skillful
doesn't have UMD
can apparently see through any disguise check (even 35+ before rolls) with no roll or anything

player has said they're not an ardent, shadowcaster, or telepath, but I figure they could always be lying.

I don't know about all the new PF classes. is she perhaps a witch?

any help would be appreciated, I want to split the party's resources in the most efficient way

[Fates]

Frankly, I think it smells like homebrew, as it doesn't sound like any class I'm familiar with- of course, I don't really do psionics, so it could always be some psionic class I don't know about. I can assure you that it is not a witch.. Does your DM allow homebrew?

[Gildedragon]

can apparently see through any disguise check (even 35+ before rolls) with no roll or anything

I smell bovine or poor interpretation of the rules

[Venger]

Frankly, I think it smells like homebrew, as it doesn't sound like any class I'm familiar with- of course, I don't really do psionics, so it could always be some psionic class I don't know about. I can assure you that it is not a witch.. Does your DM allow homebrew?
I asked if it was homebrew, but the player said no, but as I said, I suspect lies. I am also familiar with all the base classes in 3.5 and none of them can do this. I don't know this DM and what he allows, so I can't say, especially since he won't say what the player is using.


I smell bovine or poor interpretation of the rules

my thoughts exactly. but the player won't fess up, nor will the dm

[123456789blaaa]

I asked if it was homebrew, but the player said no, but as I said, I suspect lies. I am also familiar with all the base classes in 3.5 and none of them can do this. I don't know this DM and what he allows, so I can't say, especially since he won't say what the player is using.



my thoughts exactly. but the player won't fess up, nor will the dm

Lies? Are all of you allowed to lie? Is this assumed?

[Jack_Simth]

Lies? Are all of you allowed to lie? Is this assumed?There's pretty firm indication that the OP is not the DM. And telling mechanical truths to fellow players is not necessarily required at all tables (although being honest with the DM almost always is). Some DM's even discourage talking mechanics.

[GreenSerpent]

what I know about the player's character:
reads minds
obtains power from knowing secrets
has cohorts (at level 3?)
has contacts
uses gather info as important to character
not skillful
doesn't have UMD
can apparently see through any disguise check (even 35+ before rolls) with no roll or anything

Let's see.

Reading minds - possible before level 5, but only through one way - the Soulspeaker Circlet soulmeld.
Obtaining power from secrets - screams "TRUENAMER".
Cohorts at level 3 - evident cheating/homebrew here. Leadership is unavailable till level 6.
Contacts - this is okay. Any character can have contacts.
Gather Information is important - this is an odd one. Also screams TRUENAMER for some reason.
Not skilful - hmmm. This makes it more likely to be a caster-sort.
No UMD - well, most classes don't.
Can see through Disguise checks - call bull**** on this one. Especially because (make sure to point this out) Disguise is NON-MAGICAL. Magical abilities CANNOT see through it, you need to win on the roll vs the disguise check. Make sure it's rolled in plain sight of everybody.
Hell, not even True Seeing can get through a sky-high Disguise check because of the above NON-MAGICAL bit!

[Venger]

Lies? Are all of you allowed to lie? Is this assumed?

well, no one except this mystery player does so. it's just annoying and hinders the party since we don't know what this character is capable of.


There's pretty firm indication that the OP is not the DM. And telling mechanical truths to fellow players is not necessarily required at all tables (although being honest with the DM almost always is). Some DM's even discourage talking mechanics.

in case it was unclear earlier, I am a player, not the DM, since I referred to the DM.

since the DM is not sharing what the player is playing, I don't know how honest the player has been with the DM.


Let's see.

Reading minds - possible before level 5, but only through one way - the Soulspeaker Circlet soulmeld.
Obtaining power from secrets - screams "TRUENAMER".
Cohorts at level 3 - evident cheating/homebrew here. Leadership is unavailable till level 6.
Contacts - this is okay. Any character can have contacts.
Gather Information is important - this is an odd one. Also screams TRUENAMER for some reason.
Not skilful - hmmm. This makes it more likely to be a caster-sort.
No UMD - well, most classes don't.
Can see through Disguise checks - call bull**** on this one. Especially because (make sure to point this out) Disguise is NON-MAGICAL. Magical abilities CANNOT see through it, you need to win on the roll vs the disguise check. Make sure it's rolled in plain sight of everybody.
Hell, not even True Seeing can get through a sky-high Disguise check because of the above NON-MAGICAL bit!


the player does not know how to meldshape, so that is out
nor does the player know how to truename
I'm aware.
the way they were referring to contacts, it felt like a class feature, having to "pick them for the level"
having read zaq's handbook several times, I don't know of truenamers having any propensity for GI, not having it as a class skill
I thought that as well. I am pretty sure the character is psionic, since the player has been asking a lot of questions about transparency
I only mentioned it because it was one of the few things the player deigned to share with the group
I too call BS on this, especially since I'm playing a changeling rogue. this player has an awful habit of constantly trying to one-up everyone at everything. as mentioned, the player DID NOT ROLL. so it's some kind of ability (assuming it's not just homebrew)

EDIT: definitely a manifester of some kind.

[Randomguy]

Has anyone considered that the seeing through disguises thing is a side effect of mind reading? If he hears you thinking "I hope he doesn't realise that I'm really [Insert name here]" then he knows that you're [insert name here], no spot check required.

[Kumori]

Has anyone considered that the seeing through disguises thing is a side effect of mind reading? If he hears you thinking "I hope he doesn't realise that I'm really [Insert name here]" then he knows that you're [insert name here], no spot check required.

This is exactly what I was going to say. And Detect Thoughts is a second level spell, so maybe that's where mind-reading comes in? Gather Info being important could be something he intends to RP rather than a crunchy part of the character, same with the secrets.

[Gildedragon]

Has anyone considered that the seeing through disguises thing is a side effect of mind reading? If he hears you thinking "I hope he doesn't realise that I'm really [Insert name here]" then he knows that you're [insert name here], no spot check required.

Though Detect Thoughts allows a Will Save to read the thoughts

True Seeing will pierce a changeling's alter-self ability, or at least negate the +10 from it

[avr]

A sorcerer with the rakshasa bloodline is really good at reading thoughts from 3rd level onward. It's a supernatural ability rather than a spell, so no verbal or other components required. They don't get gather info as a class skill by default but they tend to have good charisma and there's probably a feat or two which could make it a class skill.

The cohorts might be hirelings, charmed, relatives, diplomanced, whatever. Not enough info.

[Telonius]

Master Inquisitive from Eberron has a "Contact" feature. They also get a Zone of Truth, which could be fluffed as "Reading minds." "Recognize Impostor" is one of the bonus feats at 2nd.

You can start it at 4th level, as long as the entry class has Gather Information and Sense Motive on their class list.

EDIT: Also - Master Inquisitive does not have UMD on the class list, 1/day Discern Lies at 3rd, and 1/day True Seeing at 5th. Yeah, this is really sounding like your class. What level are you guys supposed to be?

The only thing that doesn't completely fit is the "not skillful" part. MInq does have 6+Int skill points, but a very middling list of class skills. Might be he has the points in things you're not noticing yet.

[Twilightwyrm]

This isn't a pathfinder class, but my guess would be a Specialist Enchanter with the Cohort and Social Proficiency variants from Unearthed Arcana, with a secondary focus in Divination. This meets the checks for:

-"reads minds"- Since he he 3rd level, he will have just gotten access to Detect Thoughts, so this is fully possible.
-"obtains power from knowing secrets"- The Knowledge Devotion feat from Complete Champion could acomplish something like this, since greater Knowledge checks yield a higher bonus on the effect. Other than this, he may "obtain power" in a non-literal sense.
-"has cohorts (at level 3?)"- This is what tipped me off to Specialist Enchanter. The Specialist Enchanter is the only class that can get a cohort before 6th level, since they give up their Familiar to grab one.
"has contacts"- Everyone has contacts, but with the addition of Social Proficiency (see below), it will be easier for him to make more.
-"uses gather info as important to character"- The "Social Proficiency" Wizard variant allows the wizard to gain Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate and Sense Motive as class skills. He may also have 5+ ranks in Knowledge (Local), which would get him a synergy bonus to Gather Information. Finally, the Social Proficiency variant also grants a +2 to one of the aforementioned skills of the character's choice. It is possible he put the bonus here, but it is most likely in Sense Motive (see below).
-"not skillful"- Despite this increased skill list, 2+Int skill points per level isn't really ever going to be enough to be overly skill focused, even if you max INT. A base of 2 skill points just isn't enough.
-"doesn't have UMD"- The class, indeed, does not have UMD.
-"can apparently see through any disguise check (even 35+ before rolls) with no roll or anything"- This is a bit of a bassackwards way of doing things, but he might be seeing through the check with Sense Motive. Allow me to explain: Disguise is two parts- looking the part, and acting the part. Now, while he may well not be able to see though the disguise, the fact that he is mind-reading (as previous mentioned), coupled with a possibly high Sense Motive check (see: Social Proficiency), means that he would be targeting either the target's Bluff Modifier, or simply reading their thoughts and knowing otherwise. Note that, unless their thoughts reveal otherwise, he will only know that they are disguised, not what their true appearance/form is. But yeah, even if you have a 60+ disguise modifier to disguise yourself as the Grand Duke, people are going to start suspecting something is up if you aren't properly acting (or thinking, in this case) the part.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I think TwilightWyrm's guess is pretty good. I really do hate when people do this at a generally open table. TW's point by point picks out the same points as ambiguities that may not represent the amount of hard rules data as he might want you to think.

In the worst cases of this, I've been tempted to ask in character.

"Cut the bull****, what are you capable of and what aren't you? I refuse to travel, fight and risk life and limb with you until I'm satisfied that your capabilities make you an asset rather than a liability and have a a sufficient understanding of them to take them into account when devising strategy and am convinced that your morals and motives are compatable with my own."

In my experience "mystery characters" tax the social contract that requires the PC's to be a party.

[nedz]

In my experience "mystery characters" tax the social contract that requires the PC's to be a party.

We routinely do this at the start of a game. It is meta knowledge after all. The character will tell you some things, and others are obvious from their appearance. We do this mainly though because it's fun to try and deduce what's happening — as you can see from this thread.