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RFLS
2012-11-26, 02:03 PM
So, I'm working on a monk built around AoOs. Given that monks are not exactly high damage dealers, I'd like to be using combat maneuvers and just generally be a pain in the ass. However, all of the combat maneuver feats have a prereq of 13 Intelligence, which I can't really afford (because Monk).

What I've currently got is a level 6 Master of Many Styles Monk with Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, the full Panther Style chain, and the first two of the Crane Style chain. I'd like to finish it out to 8 levels of Monk to pick up Snake Style, so that my turn would go like this: Move -> Provoke -> Panther Parry -> Crane Wing -> Crane Riposte -> Snake Fang. I feel as though having Greater Trip in there would be incredibly painful for the opponent, as I'd be able to trip him and take another AoO. (Side note: Weapon Finesse has been house-ruled to replace Strength with Dex in your CMB for everything except Grappling. Weird, but it works.)

So...I'm looking for a) ways around that prereq, or b) other things to do with AoOs. I'd also like general AoO build advice. Keep in mind that this is PF only.

grarrrg
2012-11-26, 04:22 PM
Linky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237407)

Maneuver Master can get you any Greater-CM feat at level 6.
Flowing Monk has some nice tricks they can pull with AoO's.
They are not compatible with each other though.

You'll have to follow the link for the details (and the original build was Monk/Rogue gestalt) but:
[copy/paste/edit]
Make a Full Attack.
In place of first attack, use the Trip Maneuver.
If trip succeeds, you get to make 2 AoO's.
Opponent must make TWO Reflex saves, or become Flat-Footed until the end of your next turn (Flowing Monk 2).
Finish your Full Attack by delivering a righteous beatdown upon them (Opponent is Prone and Flat-Footed).

On opponent's turn, they can either:
Stay Prone, with -4 AC vs. Melee.
Or they can attempt to stand up, which provokes an AoO.
Or they can attempt to move/crawl away, which provokes an AoO.
Regardless, the Opponent is still considered Flat-Footed.

On your turn:
If Opponent stood up, repeat Round 1.
Otherwise initiate Full Attack beatdown.

Repeat as necessary.
[/copy/paste]

Blyte
2012-11-26, 07:57 PM
RFLS - in order for your build to work, you have to have bad guys willing to stay and play with you. I say forget the combat maneuvers and opt for scorpion style, giving them no option but to stay with you and suffer from snake bites, etc..

anyhow, this is the conclusion I came to when I wanted to create my panther, snake, and crane practitioner.

also, perhaps take it to 8th level, then switch over to fighter(brawler) for additional bonus feats, the prospect of +1/+3 with close weapons, and the ability to wear gloves of dueling for 2 more bonus damage.

if only you could start out at the level you need to make it all happen, I would love to play a halfling with this build, because the halflings have other feats that would compliment crane style, because they further improve ac while fighting defensively. but it's too hard not playing a human, since they get that bonus feat to help it start to gel sooner.

StreamOfTheSky
2012-11-26, 11:44 PM
Your build relies on enemies to continue attacking you for no good reason. I wouldn't count on it too heavily.

If you want a reach build, your best bet is a synthesist (or the summoner's eidolon) wiedling a reach weapon, taking the reach evolution, going up in size once that's an evo option, and enlarging yourself/eidolon.

If you don't want to be a caster, your best bet is Fighter and putting off your hopes and dreams until level 11+. That's the level you can grab Pin Down, which is basically identical to the 3.5 Stand Still feat available at 1st level (thanks, paizo). On a side note, paizo's "stand still" sucks and only works on adjacent targets, so no use to a reach user. Anyway.... level 12 you can get Dazing Assault feat. You now have the option of having your AoOs either a) do no damage but stop a foe in his tracks or b) have a chance of dazing him. And can actually do decent lockdown finally.

RFLS
2012-11-27, 12:08 AM
Your build relies on enemies to continue attacking you for no good reason. I wouldn't count on it too heavily.

Well, if I acquire a way to trip, it doesn't really rely on that too heavily, especially if I take Vicious Stomp (I think that's what it's called). Although, to be honest, I should consider buffing my Trip CMB without Improved Trip, because giving other people AoOs is fun for this. That'd be Trip Attempt -> Provoked AoO -> Block -> Three AoOs from me -> Resolve Trip Attempt, assuming Snake Style is taken all the way.

EDIT- Derp. I just realized you need Greater Trip for this to come into its own.

Acanous
2012-11-27, 12:21 AM
if you go the Overrun CM tree, you get to AO the enemies you run over. It works better with Barbarians, though.

grarrrg
2012-11-27, 01:22 AM
Well, if I acquire a way to trip, it doesn't really rely on that too heavily, especially if I take Vicious Stomp (I think that's what it's called). Although, to be honest, I should consider buffing my Trip CMB without Improved Trip, because giving other people AoOs is fun for this. That'd be Trip Attempt -> Provoked AoO -> Block -> Three AoOs from me -> Resolve Trip Attempt, assuming Snake Style is taken all the way.

EDIT- Derp. I just realized you need Greater Trip for this to come into its own.

Technically, a Maneuver Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/maneuver-master) can get Greater Trip at level 6 withOUT having Improved Trip.
Ignore-Reqs for teh winz!